Show of Hands

@praet1965, a belief "is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true", while a conjecture is "a proposition that is unproven". Since an atheist holds the proposition of non-existence of God to be true, atheism is a belief... and there is no way around it.

Here's the beef: you CAN say this country was founded on the philosophies of Judeo-Christian inspired men, but you CAN'T say this country was founded as a Christian nation. The concept of natural law, divine law etc play an integral role in democracy-- but that doesnt mean this is a Christian nation

@praet1965, a belief "is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true", while a conjecture is "a proposition that is unproven". Since an atheist holds the proposition of no God to be true, atheism is a belief. There is no way around the obvious.

It's called being considerate. Don't shove your religion in other people's faces. It's not about how you feel about the topic, other people don't necessarily feel the same way.

Hey big- your argument is pointless. Whether or not Jefferson was a Christian is a red herring. It doesn't matter one bit. Show us proof this country was founded on Christianity. It doesn't matter who they believed in, show me how this country was founded on Christianity ~~ spoiler: you can't

Yes that is the entire quote about slavery. I posted that since I saw part of the quote a few times. You can piece anything together to say what you want. That is one of my problems with some organized Religion now.

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
[Thomas Jefferson, February 10, 1814]

They can't evade insurance just because they're religious. And many more companies that aren't religious are trying to not pay.

Jefferson had some quotes that conflicted himself lol.

This is fun, here's one: "The Christian God is a being of terrific character -- cruel, vindictive, capricious, and unjust."
[Thomas Jefferson, _Jefferson Bible_]

very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel, and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what it’s Author never said nor saw

n a certain order of time or subject. a more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen. it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus,

1816 January 9. (Jefferson to Charles Thomson). "I too have made a wee little book, from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus. it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book,

Why are these guys using Jefferson, out of all the founders, to justify what their saying? I'm starting to feel like we're being trolled.

I'm not an atheist, I believe that god is within, not in a sky and certainty doesn't have a biography that you have to live by. You believe the same thing now as your ancestors did in 1512, they would be so proud of you!!

Deist god. Universal creator not crazy Christian god. Founders weren't Christians.

^^ that was Thomas Jefferson too

Dear bigand Bbk- as I was looking for the context of your TJ quotes, I found this good one:
And the day will come, when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His Father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva, in the brain of Jupiter.

That's the 3rd quote I posted. How many you want? "If we could believe that [Jesus]...countenanced the follies, falsehoods and charlatanisms which his biographers father on him, ...the conclusion would be irresistible...that he was an imposter."
[Thomas Jefferson]

That's great if that was the truth of the matter but when a company has to provide you insurance and pay for it, they should be able to opt out of the clause that is against their religion. The fact is they aren't trying to stop you from taking birth control they just believe that u should pay 4 it.

Sounds like he might be talking about slavery there, champ. Let me check... Brb

The thing is Christmas trees aren't really religious they have become such a general thing it's not religious...

Commerce between master and slave is despotism. Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than that these people are to be free. Establish a law for educating the common people. This it is the business of the state and on a general plan." Thomas Jefferson

Nativity scenes defiantly are...

God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever.

Wtf!!! Just... No... I'm gonna let someone else take this one.

As of this moment, 4 of the 5 most prominent SOH atheist grouches have already responded to this post. Just waiting for the fifth now.

If you want to use a quote why don't you use the entire quote?

Christmas trees, no. Nativity. Scenes? Yes.

It's about insurance companies paying for it not religious institutions. And you could opt out for religious reasons if that's your choice. This is a bullshít smokescreen created by the dumbfücks AT fox( what I meant to say earlier)

Besides, we all love Christmas trees here, this debate is more about the fictional stories that are displayed.

Who pays for it?

Furthermore, County of Allegheny v ACLU ('89- REAGAN court btw) held that, in the setting of the county courthouse of Allegheny county:
Display of the menorah in this setting was constitutional, while the Christian nativity scene in this particular setting was unconstitutional.

Pow. Right in kisser

Oh bkk wants Madison quotes? I'll give him one: "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded prospect."
[James Madison, in a letter to William Bradford, April 1,1774]

Your proof our education system sucks.

This is what is called the genetic fallacy. Atheists are always seeking out obscure/ancient/irrelevant origins of religious symbols in order to try and be a thorn in the side of Christianity, it doesn't work.

If the government makes a law to help people there's always at least one group of religious psychos who think it violates there rights. Birth control is a good thing. You remember all those welfare babies you don't want to pay for? How's about we prevent them no?

Putting up a Christmas tree or nativity scene on government property is not Congress making a LAW establishing or prohibiting a religion. It's a decoration for Pete's sake!

Point granted, Phlegm. If a kind beneficiary pays for a nativity scene in front of city hall, that's ok with me. But, I don't want to fund it with my tax dollars. A Christmas tree is ok, in any case. That's really not religious.

I just saying those who think that religion should stay out of government and vice versa probably condemned every "religious" institution that didnt want to pay for a woman's birth control.

That's already been said here. hahaha

For a law to be considered constitutional under the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment, the law must have a legitimate secular purpose, must not have the primary effect of either advancing or inhibiting religion, and also must not result in an excessive entanglement of government and religion

"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."
[Thomas Jefferson, in _Toward the Mystery_]

"constitutional right" to be displayed, shut down their ignorant ass by directing them to the lemon test in Lemon v Kurtzman. The SCOTUS held:

Next thing you know.... People will think you ain't got no morals without religion.... Specifically Christian religion....lol

In every country and every age, the preist hath been hostile to liberty.
Thomas Jefferson
( went off memory I think it's right)

Let me shut down all these bible thumping goons by providing them the court case I've been looking for for the past hour (hard work pays off). I give you "The Lemon Test"- as established in Lemon v Kurtzman, SCOTUS case- 1971. The next time an idiot tells you that religious displays have a

What does a tree have to do with religion though?

What does birth control and this question have anything to do with each other?

I just don't understand why people have such a problem with the decorations. They aren't offensive so who cares if you don't celebrate a holiday?

Oh no!!! So do not talk about anything except merry Christmas, and Jesus, that just ain't red blooded American talk!!! Lol.