Show of HandsShow of Hands

Show Of Hands March 25th, 2013 3:20pm

My area received a generous 11&1/2 inches of snow last night setting a record for snowfall in March. Is it ok to stop using the term "global warming" yet?

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Doopy Remedial Americanism
03/25/13 1:33 pm

I take the 1st Amendment seriously enough that you can call it what you will.

MrWolfe Nashville
03/25/13 7:38 pm

Doopy FTW!
Well played, sir! ????????

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
03/26/13 11:19 am

This was the reason for the question.
You guys are killing me.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
03/26/13 7:35 pm

We clearly can't be trusted with a public forum!

RJ1969 SoCal
03/25/13 11:03 am

Snow isn't an indicator of temperature as much as it is a indicator of increased precipitation. When we have more rain or snowfall, it is because warmer water temps and air temps (hold more water in warm air) are increasing.

thatguy81 here
03/25/13 11:12 am

That's what I was trying to say, far less eloquently I should add.

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
03/25/13 11:15 am

Not the debate.
I feel like a fireman, trying to put out fires.
Strictly verbiage.
I just want to unify the term, not debate it.

RJ1969 SoCal
03/25/13 11:17 am

Ooooh. Well, you know how I get with science questions.

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
03/25/13 11:18 am

Science questions?
Ok I've got one.
Check the polls in about 2 minutes, the "propose question" box hates me.

thatguy81 here
03/25/13 11:24 am

How about the term from Futrama? "Global Wapa"

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
03/25/13 11:27 am

I will go with that until someone convinces me in a debate that Global Wapa is real.

AnnieM The Island
03/25/13 6:16 pm

Tilton- if you truly wanted this question to be about terminology and not about climate change (or whatever term you chose to use), then why was your first comment about a personal observation that it feels like the seasons have shifted by roughly a month?

AnnieM The Island
03/25/13 6:16 pm

I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk, but doesn't that statement lend itself to a debate/discussion about the effects (or lack thereof) of climate change rather than what to call it?

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
03/26/13 8:32 am

Simply stated, I don't like arguing within our group.

thatguy81 here
03/25/13 10:13 am

What we need to remember with "global warming" is that because its cold today doesn't mean the globe isn't warming. When the ice caps raise 1 degree, more melts. That fresh water is dumped into the salt water. More fresh water in salt equals easier precipitation. More precipitation means more snow.

thatguy81 here
03/25/13 10:16 am

The fact is the climate is changing. How or why is almost irrelevant. We as a people need to do two things
1) Reduce our impact just as a safe rather than sorry. Either way, fossil fuels are tied to so many other problems.
2) Adapt to the fact that life will change. Complacency kills.

thatguy81 here
03/25/13 10:22 am

There is a reason society spurred at almost the same latitudes around the globe is something we need to remember. We weren't made to stay in Illinois 365 ????

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
03/25/13 10:22 am

Climate change or global warming?
That was the point of the question.

thatguy81 here
03/25/13 10:25 am

The earth is warming. There is no doubt about that. Everyone likes to forget in winter when they get record cold.

Remember the hottest 10 summers on record have been in the last 12 years

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
03/25/13 10:26 am

I actually am waiting for 1 of our centers in Texas to have an opening for VP GM.

thatguy81 here
03/25/13 10:28 am

It's hot as shit here man.
While you were getting record snow we were getting record heat.
90s in march.
The question isn't amount of snow, but the temperature. If the trend was record COLD then I may change from "global warming".
Maybe its usually 26 with 6" and now its 30 with 11"

thatguy81 here
03/25/13 10:31 am

Not trying to argue but the "not global warming" only comes out at winter when people get a crap ton of snow.

No one questions it when it's 105 degrees in May in Canada

thatguy81 here
03/25/13 10:33 am

Or when its 95 in San Antonio on march 6th.

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
03/25/13 10:37 am

It wasn't just the snow, it's record cold temperatures too.

thatguy81 here
03/25/13 10:44 am

What level of the atmosphere of cold? Ground level, might be evade of all the new damn snow...

I dunno man. The globe is getting hotter and weather is becoming more severe. What we call it is even less relevant than how.

We just need to stop arguing on a term and actually do something

thatguy81 here
03/25/13 10:44 am

Because of all*

**I am not a climatologist :p **

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
03/25/13 10:59 am

March has been 9 degrees colder than average. Also a record.
Maybe down South it's been hotter, but up here, it's been colder.
What does it mean?
Not a clue.
The question really was just about terminology, not the climate change debate.

thatguy81 here
03/25/13 11:13 am

I dunno what the means wait her besides move????

I think real debate starts after we get over what ever term we want to call it. We have spent 10 years arguing what to call it and have done almost ZERO to do anything about it.

Emma Austin.ish.
03/26/13 7:24 am

It's not about microclimates, like 1 state. It's the average of daily temps for a year from all around the globe, they can be seen slightly increasing from year to year. An extra 2 weeks of 100°+ temps in TX, VT hitting 90° for 2 weeks, these add up. Army's right, the big storms are caused by ⬆temps

Zod Above Pugetropolis
03/25/13 10:08 am

Not even Al calls it that anymore, having gotten on the "Climate Change" bandwagon years ago. No doubt the climate is changing though, or we'd still be shoveling snow and chipping ice in Panama. Or would be basking in the tropical jungle of northern Canada. With us or not, it's always been changing.

Tony SOH Founder
03/25/13 9:19 am

I believe that climate is changing and that we are contributing marginally to the change. The questions for me: 1) what is the true estimated impact of the change? 2) what can we truly do to change them? 3) what would it cost (not just $$, but as a society)? 4) are the costs worth the benefit?

Tony SOH Founder
03/25/13 9:21 am

The problem is that it's become so politicized by power-hungry politicians, money-grubbing companies, and grant-hungry scientists that people don't know who to trust or what is truth vs manipulation. It's a shame, and the scientific community is largely to blame.

Tony SOH Founder
03/25/13 9:26 am

People are too. Hybrid vehicle sales lagged early but took off after car makers stopped trying to make them look like "regular" cars. They figured out that a bigger motivation for people to buy hybrids is because they want to be *seen* driving hybrids.

Sometimes people just really suck.

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
03/25/13 9:39 am

I want to see the unbiased, "take it or leave it", no agenda driven numbers.
Hybrids are such ugly cars.
I'd buy one, the bodies need a redesign.
Clean lines, like a Camero, and I'd buy one.

Zod Above Pugetropolis
03/25/13 10:20 am

Tony I agree with every one of your points. The one small doubt I have about our possible impact on climate has to do with contrails - both adding moisture and forming ice in an otherwise relatively stable layer of our atmosphere. We don't know enough about it to even make a guess yes or no.

wetheslaves Live each moment fully
03/25/13 11:07 am

You know they are melting the polls with microwaves from space to prove their point?

wetheslaves Live each moment fully
03/25/13 11:11 am

Ok that was a joke. However, I have seen some amazing sine wave shaped clouds that magically formed out of thin air on a sunny day. It rained cats and dogs ten minutes after clear sunshine. I will have to dig out that photo some time.

wetheslaves Live each moment fully
03/25/13 11:14 am

Although we do bombard the earth with microwaves for split transmitter receiver anti stealth radar.

Emma Austin.ish.
03/26/13 7:07 am

Hey Zod, did you know that for the 3 days that there were no planes flying over the US after 09.11.01 that the average temperature increased by 1.6°C?

Emma Austin.ish.
03/26/13 7:09 am

Funny thing, in VT people took cutting back on gasoline usage very seriously. To the point where the state is now raising our gas tax by 7¢ on the $ because they no longer have enough revenue to take care of the highways.

Emma Austin.ish.
03/26/13 7:15 am

That is the real question, Tony. How much can we control, and what is the cost either way. We do know that the oil supply is dwindling, and there are a lot more important uses for it than transportation, so I have no idea problem with the hybrids or increased gas efficiency in general.

wetheslaves Live each moment fully
03/26/13 7:35 am

A farmer once reminded me that commercial fertilizers are made from petroleum distillates. Transport and food sustain our populations. I hope someone has a practical plan.

Tony SOH Founder
03/26/13 7:37 am

I don't have a problem with gas efficiency either. My current dream car is a Tesla, in fact. :-) I just have a problem with sanctimonious people who are more concerned with *looking* green (or spiritual, for that matter) than with actually being it.

Zod Above Pugetropolis
03/26/13 9:30 am

Emma I didn't know that about the temperature increase, but in some areas contrails form an obvious cloud layer. It seems like they'd have an effect. Not science, just a question in my gut.

We have the same thing here with gas taxes; there's even talk of a $75 annual surcharge for hybrids and EVs.

Emma Austin.ish.
03/26/13 9:54 am

Sorry, Zod. I didn't complete my thought. The lack of contrails caused the temp rise. because there wasn't that cloud layer. I just found it really interesting.

Emma Austin.ish.
03/26/13 9:56 am

I mean, it didn't have any greater effect on global climate, just what was observed in the US for those days.

wetheslaves Live each moment fully
03/26/13 9:59 am

Zod putting a surcharge on hybrids and EVs is stupid idiotic and foolish in my opinion. We need to encourage it as much as possible. Demand for fuel will not decrease as we keep having kids etc. They can tax the fuel more or add to the vehicle registrations but don't do this now. ROI...

wetheslaves Live each moment fully
03/26/13 10:03 am

People pay more for these cars to get a return on their investment and make a difference. As volume increases the cost will decrease and the return on investment will be more tolerable. This sounds like a scheme to slow down the vehicle progress or stupidity for planing ahead.

wetheslaves Live each moment fully
03/26/13 10:09 am

That was my excited voice. Nothing aimed at anyone. Just passionate about making some progress.

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
03/26/13 10:15 am

They are ugly.
Very ugly.
Very, very ugly.

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
03/26/13 10:16 am

They can't design them to look like a Dodge Avenger?

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
03/26/13 10:20 am

They cost so much more, for ALOT less options.
If you want people to buy them, redesign them.
Sounds like you can't understand why everyone doesn't.
That's why.
If I'm sacrificing that much horsepower, it better be aesthetically appealing.

wetheslaves Live each moment fully
03/25/13 9:17 am

The word is changing. The ice is melting. Yes these are facts. Are we to blame? That's where it gets unclear.

MrWolfe Nashville
03/25/13 8:37 am

The climate is changing, seasons are shifting, oceans are rising.
No politics, just personal observations.
When I was a kid, I remember seeing maps of 'tornado alley' & the southeast wasn't in it. Now it has been revised to include Alabama & W. Tennessee.
The problem is when politicians get involved

MrWolfe Nashville
03/25/13 8:40 am

Has man caused some of it? Sure. Not all of it though. Can man do a better job of taking care of the earth? Absolutely.
It's not gonna happen because of the 'efforts' of an idiot like my state's own Albert Gore, jr. though...

Emma Austin.ish.
03/25/13 8:44 am

That's pretty close to how I see it. Before I taught environmental science, I thought it was a load of garbage, probably bc Al Gore was so insistent on it. The more I learn though, the more I see that it is happening. The facts back it up.

MrWolfe Nashville
03/25/13 8:50 am

Gore has proven consistently throughout his career that he is nothing more than a political opportunist and *capitalist* to the highest degree.
Thankfully; he seems to have lost relevance to folks all over the political spectrum. If anything; I think he has *hurt* a message that has some merit

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
03/25/13 8:24 am

Personally, I believe that the seasons have shifted by a month.
Colder than normal April, warmer than normal November.
I do not have any scientific data to back up my theory, just my opinion based on my observations. Which technically is the definition of the word "hypothesis".

AnnieM The Island
03/25/13 6:04 pm

It's so heavily dependent on where you live, though.
When I was a kid we always half-way joked that we got off for Spring Break because the last freeze of the year was always going to be in that week. No matter what.
Now we get our last freeze around the first week of February. That's if we get…

AnnieM The Island
03/25/13 6:05 pm

a freeze at all.
Likewise when I was a kid we always had to make sure our Halloween costumes had long sleeves. While it was rarely "cold" that evening, it was pretty much always chilly enough to warrant long sleeves. Now it seems like we don't even have to pull out our sweaters until

AnnieM The Island
03/25/13 6:05 pm

after Thanksgiving.
This past winter I wore my jacket once. And that was because I took the dogs out at around 3 am.

When people talk about visiting here or moving here I usually tell them that summer lasts from March to November (or I say "Easter to Thanksgiving") and that's not far off.

susanr Colorado
03/25/13 8:23 am

I'm disappointed. I only got a few inches of snow.

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
03/25/13 9:26 am

It's Spring though.
I don't want ANY snow.

susanr Colorado
03/25/13 9:43 am

Yeah, spring snow in Cincinnati always sucked too. Here it's just expected. I've been told we get some of our heaviest snowfalls in March. This is only my second winter here, and both years have been pretty light. Which isn't good because we haven't gotten much rain either, & we desperately need it.

susanr Colorado
03/25/13 8:22 am

I think it was OK years ago, when it became obvious that the issue was *climate change.* More extremes in general.

icechris12 New Jersey
03/25/13 8:21 am

I think just saying climate change is better. I'm in the midst of that storm too

Emma Austin.ish.
03/26/13 7:13 am

Climate change gives a better understanding for the general public. Warming doesn't happen the way that most people thing it does, and a lot of these mega winter storms are actually the result of it. Too much to type and deal with autocorrect to fully explain it though. Sorry.