Should abortion be legal throughout the full term of a pregnancy?
One more thing about choice: you made your choice when you had unprotected vaginal sex, now live with the consequences!
I'm pro-life, would never get an abortion under any circumstance. But just curious, how do you feel in cases of rape, when it was not a choice made by the woman?
The baby isn't responsible for the rape. It will be hard on the mother but it's still a baby deserving to live though it's better to be given up for adoption after birth bc the mother will have difficulties loving that child, seeing her rapist in that child all the time.
Imagine a biological father who is a serial rapist and a mother who is a modern day Ma Barker, like this:
So kill the baby for the sins of the parents???
No, I would not kill the baby, ever. I was just trying to close the giant hole in your original comment. Thanks for responding.
Thanks for patching that hole 😊
Birth control can fail and people can be raped. It is rarely as cut and dry as “she didn’t have unprotected sex”. Even then, it is none of your business.
I'd like to murder my neighbor. Is that anyone's business?
You neighbor has thoughts, a heartbeat, and can feel pain. Your neighbor is alive.
A baby has a heartbeat at 6-8 weeks. There is dispute over when a baby can feel pain, no one knows definitively. Studies have shown that from 16 weeks the fetus can respond to low frequency sound and by 19 weeks will withdraw a limb or flinch in response to pain. We continue to learn more all the time. Wouldn't you prefer to err on the lower side than on the higher side?
Yes, I know when the heartbeat starts. We don’t have an exact week, sure, but we do know pain is felt at least after the first trimester. And I doubt a reaction to sound really means anything; A chemical reaction doesn’t mean the chemicals are alive, and like you said, we don’t know when they start to feel pain. Very few woman wait till past the first trimester to terminate a healthy pregnancy anyways, when all three of those variables are met. Hell, the choice to terminate a pregnancy is a difficult decision on its own anyways because many woman love the fetus right away.
In 2015, 8% of all abortions occurred between weeks 14-20. 1.3% occurred in weeks 21 or above. Based on the 913,000 abortions reported that year, that means about 73,000 in the second trimester, and about 12,000 in the third. I wouldn't call those small numbers. And now that states are pushing to legalize late term abortions, those percentages will logically increase.
I’m sorry, but that is still 1.8%. Meaning less than two percent of woman who decided to go through with a termination of pregnancy do it late term, while 89% do it before the 13th week according to your source. Even then, we don’t know the full reasoning for it because everyone story is different. But I do know that people -rarely- terminate a healthy baby that late.
73,000 or 12,000 might seem like insignificant numbers to you, but if even one child was shot in a school shooting, people would be screaming for all legal guns to be confiscated.
And I’m not one of those people.
Quick question for the Liberals that support this. Where are the babies that are killed disposed of ?
Not a registered dem, but mine is in ashen form in an urn.
Generally used for stem cells in medical research
You keep your abortion in an urn? Why?
Well, it was a planned pregnancy with my spouse. We loved our baby from the moment he was conceived. We had a late term abortion because his condition was incompatible with life. We cremated him. We do something every year on his stillbirth day. People abort babies they love... it happens.
Oh, I’m sorry 🙁
Legal, yes. Unrestricted, no. I had a late term abortion and was able to show my child was terminally ill and benefitted more from euthanasia than from life support. I don't think it should be a super rigorous ethics committee, but just something to filter out anyone suffering from mental illness or who isn't able to make those logical decisions. A simple doctor's consultation would suffice.
Thanks for sharing. People seem to think the *only* reason women get late term abortions is that they just decide one day they don’t want a baby anymore. I have been trying to learn more about it myself, it’s heartbreaking for the mothers involved 😔
The killing of the innocent unborn shouldn’t be allowed at anytime...sick and evil..!!!
I am very much pro choice however I do believe that there need to be some restrictions on abortions… most specifically late term abortions. I think anything after 26 weeks or so (I am not a medical professional so I will go with what seems to be the average of what doctors opinions seem to be) should not be allowed UNLESS it can be proven that bringing the fetus to viability would put the mothers life in jeopardy or that the fetus is so severely damaged that if brought to term it would not survive or would be a carrot.
One of my issues is that I dont want to pay for a woman's abortion unless i knock that woman up. NO TAXPAYER DOLLARS SHOULD GO TO ABORTIONS, & that means no money to planned parenthood until they stop doing abortions.
I know the great liberal talking point that federal tax dollars do not fund abortions through Planned Parenthood… and while that may be technically correct that federal money is used to buy or rent the buildings, pay for the electricity, pay for the equipment in the buildings, and pay for a great number of support staff and office supplies. So while a federal money may not be used directly to pay for an abortion it is certainly used to pay for the infrastructure.
Now if Planned Parenthood started an off shoot (call it unplanned pregnancy for all I care) and all they did was abortions and they paid for their own buildings their own equipment and their own staff strictly through donations or fees charged then I could not care less about federal money going towards Planned Parenthoodm
It should be illegal.
As uncomfortable as late term abortion makes me feel, and the complete knot created in my gut when hearing abortion taking place all the way up to the day of birth...
I absolutely do not think this is a role of government. I do not like governmental hands within human reproduction.
It comes down to what you think is a life. If you think it is a life, and think it is the government's job to protect YOU from being murdered, then it absolutely makes sense that you would think it is the government's job to protect them.
It doesn't come down to what life is, or how we define it. Imo
In my eyes Life Starts the minute cells are multiplying with a separate DNA then the parents. - but that's irrelevant. The government needs to be protecting our rights as individuals not protecting God's law. Simply killing another person in society is not inherently wrong or inherently against the law. Simply removing another a person's life it's not immoral inherently. Doing it in a way that only benefits one party is selfish. But again selfish-ism, isn't inherently right or wrong.
The government protects people and persons rights a unborn baby although human and alive it's not a person. Nor is it a citizen of any country on this fine Earth.
As an embryo develops into a fetus develops into a child it gains certain protections and at the day of birth is granted its protections under human rights. But not a minute sooner.
I think the worst problem people make when trying to figure out the big issue of abortion is trying to simplify it.
This issue crosses between laws that protect individualism and those that protect the society at hole. It's important to realize that we should not use moral principles to guide our laws.
So you believe murder should be legal? That it's simply immoral, but the government shouldn't do anything about it?
There you go simplifying again.
No, I think there should be a Just reason, one that is greater then just 'oops'. Taking away ones 'personhood' cannot be done in a civil society without one.
Society itself cannot thrive in conditions, where a 'person' can kill another 'person', without have a multitude of justification.
Here is a wiki definition of person.
"A person is a being that has certain capacities or attributes such as reason, morality, consciousness or self-consciousness, and being a part of a culturally established form of social relations such as kinship, ownership of property, or legal responsibility. The defining features of personhood and consequently what makes a person count as a person differ widely among cultures and contexts."
Now not saying that this is the definition of person I'm saying this is the one I'm using.
This conversation of abortion that we've been having for decades has become so simplified we are no longer talking about its base.
I was merely looking for clarification of your statement: "Simply killing another person in society is not inherently wrong or inherently against the law."
Killing is the act of taking a life.
Murder is killing without justification.
Biblical (murder), is killing someone in a circumstance against Gods Law.
Legally(murder) is a premeditated Act of killing someone without a lawful cause.
If I'm guilty of oversimplification, you're guilty of overthinking.
I'm trying to have a rational conversation about something that strikes a nerves of both parties in this argument.
You told me twice that I was oversimplifying. To me it is simple. There is no valid reason to kill (or murder) another person.
Biblical and legally
War time comes to mind
Self defense is my first go to.
Point taken. But how does that apply to abortion?
Biblically it doesnt.
If your prepared to make the argument your biblical views are at all realevant on what someone else's action might be, good luck.
Legal, at very least abortion isnt 'Murder' - yet. I think the resent controversy is enough to swing RvW,
If it’s about the woman’s right to choose, the woman would be the one to die. The baby gets no choice. And if you want to support the female population, what about the approximate 30 MILLION females who have been killed without any right to choose in the past 46 years? 40 weeks, 23 weeks, 8 weeks... It’s all murder.
So are you fur it or agin it?
“And if you want to support the female population”
I went to a WNBA game once. I’m doing my part
WNBA game.. that sounds miserable
I lied, I’ve never been to one. I was just trying to virtue signal.
I did think about going to one once
I think I’d rather do anything else than go to a WNBA game.
When is it justified to take another life out of convenience?
Let me guess... you're totally fine with killing other lives for your convenience and your taste buds.
I’m not a cannibal.
Then change your word choice. LIFE is life, and that's hypocrisy.
You’re saying it’s hypocrisy to put humans above animals?
Cow meat is juicer and more tender than human meat. Just sayin
Kill up to age of majority. A women’s right to choose.
Yes. I still would leave it up to women and their doctors. No government intrusion. Having said that I really don't believe for a second any woman would chose abortion unless absolutely necessary.
In 2015 over 8000 late term abortions were performed according to the CDC.
“According to Abby Johnson, former director of a Planned Parenthood clinic, late term abortions are usually done for elective, rather than medical reasons.
“…it is false to say the women who choose late term abortion do so because of medical reasons. We refered hundreds of women to abort their babies after 24 weeks…not ONE was for medical reasons.”
So much for the argument that no woman would get a late term abortion unless “absolutely necessary”
Well, then, that's a sickness in society, and a problem, but not one to be "solved" by the government.
Of course it should . It’s not a mans place nor will it ever be to judge whether a woman should get an abortion or not. Anyone who tries to argue with me will just be severely laughed at.
Even on the day of It’s would be birth, after the cervix has dilated? Even mere minutes before it takes its first breath and cries for the first time? Not an argument, just a clarification.
Because it is easier to laugh at somebody than to actually give a coherent response.
Explaining simple Science to many on the left. Like a heart beat =life’s. A p3nis belongs with a male and v@gina belongs with a female.
Can be near impossible, as only their version of the truth exists; you will just get “severely laughed at”.
Yung it’s too bad your mother didn’t exercise that right when she was pregnant with you.
The right to kill someone, because they’re inconvenient?
Believing this, and laughing about it, just shows that you truly have evil in your heart.
Believing that women not men should have the choice on what to do with their body that they only have control over not a man? That’s evil? Lmfaooo someone’s acting like an angry teenager.
Taking an innocent life out of convenience is evil.
Do whatever you want with your body, I don't care. But leave the baby's body alone.
American Guy...see, if you were really pro-life you wouldn’t say that the original poster here should have been terminated. It is evidence that you really don’t believe ALL life is precious and should be preserved because as soon as one of the babies grows up and has a different opinion than you, you’re ok with them having been killed. I meet very few truly pro-life people.
You are correct, all life isn’t precious. All human life is precious but people can turn to evil.
That’s one of the differences between liberals and conservatives isn’t it.
Conservatives are pro-life and pro capital punishment while liberals are pro choice and against capital punishment.
Murdering innocent children, through a taxpayer funded Nazi eugenics program, should not be legal in a civil society in the 21st Century. Margaret Sanger’s and Adolf Hitler’s hate and genocide should be left in the history books.
You’re just jealous because you didn’t think of it first!
In your unstable mental state, you might find it odd that there are people that don’t want to fund the Democrat genocide of mostly minority children in the Nazi eugenics program that was originally called “The Negro Project”.
They kill their future voters.
They murder anyone they deem to be human weeds. Just like Margaret Sanger taught the KKK and the Nazis to do.
No one is trying to kill you, Cowboy. 🙄
I’m not so sure about that in this Socialist/Communist society.
Remember when the death panel, in Obamacare, got passed. The President of the United States told a woman that her mother didn’t need a pacemaker. Just a pill. Whether it’s the murder of a baby or the murder of an elderly person, it’s still murder.
Now you have leaders of the Democrat Party endorsing the murder of babies after they are born. Not Nazi like at all...
I never knew you were an old woman with a pacemaker - especially not that particular person was you! You’re almost famous! Wow. How did that turn out after the cameras were turned off?
So you do remember the President of the United States giving a woman a death sentence.
Ever wonder what they do with the carcass.
Remember the Veritas video? They illegally sell murdered baby parts over lunch.
Cowboy: personally, I don’t remember such a thing. However, I’m not going to contradict your personal stories. I always thought you were a middle aged male truck driver, but I’m happy to accept you’re an old woman who was killed by Obama.
How convenient for you...
Just in case you want to see the President of the United States give the elderly an actual death sentence, here you go.
So you’re saying that’s you, correct?
How does it make you feel about finding out for the first time that the President of the United States would rather let Americans die than get medical care?
I feel like you’ve turned on your AI, because you’re not answering my question and you’re irrationally sticking to a talking point the conversation has already passed.
So no feelings whatsoever about finding out for the first time that the President of the United States told a woman to die instead of receiving medical care.
I would say you’re the on on AI mode if you have no feelings about the President telling a woman to die.
Oooh...right, yeah. It sucks that medical care isn’t universal and at no cost more than taxes. I just assumed we agreed on this. So, was that you this happened to?
See? You agree with the President. Old people need to die instead of getting medical care.
So using your logic, babies should be murdered after they are born.
Abortion is murder. Period.
Your name is Flowbro and you’re talking about the period women get after their abortion? Brave. Not even they do that. Hint: it’s even bigger than you think.
Yes. Not my body, not my choice, not yours either. Heartbeat = life = fake news, I can make your heart beat with a car battery.
Exactly! A heartbeat doesn't mean life begins, conception does.
The question should be a little more specific. I think elective abortions should have a cutoff, but for mother’s health and safety there should be no limit
Just clarifying… what if the mother at 8 months and 3 weeks says that having a baby would be bad for her mental health
I’m pro-choice, but I do believe that by 26 weeks (end of second trimester) your window of choice should come to a close with exceptions for only the most extreme cases.
No. It shouldn't be legal at all.
Murder shouldn't be legal
The question didn’t say murder. Are you trying to reframe the argument? Did you mean to say that your feelings are so extreme that you feel like abortion is murder? Because that changes people’s perception from you being rational to you being an out of control zealot who can’t be reasoned with.
Take this stance: abortions should be legal through age 7. This is biblically supported, unlike the abortion is murder stance. The context is that it’s better to smash in the heads of your babies than to let them fall behind during escape and get raped to death by the enemy.
But what is the word of God compared to your feelings, right? You know better than Him, I’m sure. ;-)
Is abortion through age 7 honestly supported in the Bible?
@TheMadScientist I'm going to need some proof of that biblical claim.
That’s what “rashers the little ones against the rocks” is about.
No, murder shouldn’t be legal.
What’s with people commenting on the wrong post?! This is about abortion, not murder.
You cannot be so obtoose as to have never understood why some people believe that abortion is murder ! I am very much pro choice however I can see the religious argument
Aha, but religion should not decide policy.
So, people think conflating terms is an argument? That’s literally arguing you’re right via being wrong - am I interpreting that correctly?
Like, it would be like my calling you a couch because I believe you are a couch. Then saying I don’t think couches should be allowed to drive - so you can’t drive anymore. ...right?
*Cough cough* killing a fully formed baby is murder, not abortion *cough*
I’m not religious, I still see it as murder. And I think science is more on the side that fesuses are still human
D man- I can see how you would see that. I’m a big proponent of euthanasia. 5 year olds can’t make that choice. 8 year olds can (for the sake of argument). Through age 7, euthanasia would be a postnatal abortion. After age 7, it would be euthanasia.
Our laws obviously don’t conform to my viewpoint - and I conform to the laws. That doesn’t mean laws are what they should be. For some living humans, the best medical treatment is to let them die. Me? I’ve met maybe 2 or 3 who I’d be okay approving this type of procedure on and I’ve worked with “more likely candidates” for about 13 year.
Specifically, a young child with basically Huntington’s and another with a physical handicap that locks all her muscles into a giant cramp, twisting her skeletal growth and locking her brain in a torturous hell. You literally couldn’t meet these kids without praying that they are let out of their body-prison any way legally possible.
Postnatal abortions should be rare. They should be available.
Hey man. Not to be the guy that calls everyone Hitler in an argument, but that is pretty much word for word something Hitler believed in. He literally sent letters praising American eugenicists (including Margaret Sanger) and people that proposed getting rid of those with special needs to purify the gene pool. He just took their ideas and added a racial element to it (while keeping the original ideas and executing people who were in some way handicapped). I learned in the same classrooms as kids with cerebral palsy, autism, Down syndrome etc. (no I don’t have any of that, it was an integrated charter school). Some of these kids were told by doctors they couldn’t make it past three and are still kicking at 21. Others, with far worse parents would’ve been aborted (abortion rates for Down syndrome go as high as 98% in some western countries).
Now if you’re telling me you think it’s okay for their parents to murder them at 7 years old (I knew them at that age) because they didn’t feel like taking care of a kid who needs more help than most, because it was bad for their mental health, because it might be expensive. Well then I think your username is all too fitting. I don’t think a conversation with someone like you is worth having, and I hope and pray people like you never get your way. And yeah if I know doctors are executing kids with special needs because of the crime of being too difficult, you better be damn sure I, and millions of others, are gonna do something about it.
Now put that Hitler sh¡t back where it came from or so help me
Not eugenics. Not murder.
I’m talking about living hells _for the children_. Developmental biology isn’t always so nice as it was to the kids you had class with. Sometimes, the child is trapped in a living hell.
The first person I met like this is the reason I have a living will. Her goal for the year was to respond to stimuli twice. She had a perfectly functioning brain, but her body was twisted into a shape I still don’t believe is possible. The amount of pain she experienced every second was profound - basically a perpetual, body-wide cramp - as well as systemic burning sensations on her skin. She couldn’t swallow, so had a suction tube always in her mouth. My worst day (and I’ve had some doozies) was incomparably better than her best day.
If you think her life is an okay way to live, then you should try it. I’ll break all your bones and shove you into a tiny box. You’ll be able to hear and think perfectly, but never move again. Also, I’ll often light the box on fire. Deal?
From the sound of it someone in that situation wouldn’t live without life support. As far as I’m aware if someone is in a coma, brain dead, or any other condition in which there’s no readable chance they’ll be able to make it out of a hospital, there isn’t a legal obligation to provide them every possible medical technology to save them. The legal guardian can eventually make the decision to pull the plug. That’s not what I’m arguing with, obviously it doesn’t make sense to keep someone alive who will never be able to stay that way on their own (unless the family is willing to keep paying for treatment). But legalizing parents actively killing their kids, allowing laws that don’t draw a line between healthy (or with something like I described the kids at my former school) children and someone with something like the extreme and rare example you gave is dangerous, immoral, and evil. I don’t think abortion should be legal where the child can survive outside the womb.
It seems like you and I agree enough on outcomes.
Like most, you seem to like to have rules, then exceptions to those rules. For something as extreme as abortion or euthanasia, I think those need to be allowed. Then, conditions where those are not allowed need to be clearly spelled out - which is to say, everyone qualifies until they don’t. You seem to be of the mindset that no one qualifies until they do.
Whatever. You agree with the Hitler guy. Good job.
I think killing someone that can survive on their own is murder. (And obviously that doesn’t mean like if you leave a healthy baby in the wilderness and it doesn’t hunt, it just means living without excessive life support). Like 100 years ago when medical technology just wasn’t as advanced and some babies didn’t make it (happens today in impoverished parts of the world obviously) I don’t see that as murder (duh). But if a family 100 years ago (or now) had a successful birth and the child would grow up normally but instead they kill it because they’re worried about food shortages, that’s murder. It might be merciful in some situations, but it’s murder. In the situation you described it sounds like that person can’t survive without a lot of help (way more than just food shelter and water). It’s okay to let that person die, the alternative is the government forcing hospitals to treat someone forever. But that’s not an exception to my rule, it is my rule. Same with someone in a coma
See the difference. One is actively killing a person. The other is, as one might say, letting nature take its course. Now if you want to talk about using lethal injection to make that process less painful, I’m open to that discussion. But I’d never allow a law that let (in any way, by any loophole) a healthy baby be the recipient of lethal injection (or a pillow over the face for that matter). If I saw a parent trying to kill their own baby I’m not gonna pretend like it’s their right to do that and none of my business, I’d do something to stop it.
RvW got it right.
Abortion should be summarily illegal at any stage of development. Stop killing innocent babies.
I agree 100%!!!!!
64% of Dems say it should be legal throughout pregnancy. This is why we can’t let them have control of our country again!
That is just false info 4JC.
I was talking about in this poll, Cud. Are you denying that?
Fine. But the reasons you think they approve are false. Its not under any situation.
At the moment, still over 50% of Dems say yes.
This is appalling 😙
Oh, y’all know mine is under any situation - heck, almost every situation. Pregnancy should require a choice and abortion should be the default. Nothing fancy, just filling out a checkbox on a form that says you’re choosing to have a baby. Not even any fancy extra legal info. Just a simple opt-in.
“Pregnancy should require a choice and abortion should be the default”
Man you really love abortion
Yet I still don’t take it to the ridiculous extremes that the birth obsessed do. To do that, I’d have to believe in 100% mandatory abortions (unless you’re going to hide your pregnancy and have a back-alley birth - at which point we’ll jail you and anyone who helped deliver). In fact, to be as extreme and irrational as them I’d have to say that we need to abort anything with a heart beat.
As you can see, my viewpoint is actually a middle ground. You can’t say that of the birth obsessed. They’re wacky extreme.
No, it was a compliment
Oh, got it. I’m just not used to that around here.
61% no not yes
I think it should be medically legal (not necessarily medically suggested) up to 24 weeks. Especially in situations where the fetus isn't alive, won't survive outside the mother even if she goes to full term, or if the mothers life/health is in extreme danger.
I consider myself pro-life. I want to see healthy babies and happy mothers, but I know this isn't the world we always live in. In my personal life, I would do everything I can to help any woman I get pregnant conceive a happy and healthy baby, with or without me around. I consider it a matter of personal responsibility.
I vote pro-choice though. There are reasons that someone would need this procedure. Maybe even for reasons that I don't agree with or understand. It's really none of my business though. I don't think that anyone who has or performs abortions is criminal under most situations, so it should be legal under the terms I listed above.
"There are reasons that someone would need this procedure."
If these reasons should arise, doctors would take every care to protect the life of both patients. If a decision has to be made that one has to be sacrificed to save the other (EXTREMELY rare), no one would fault a doctor or throw them in jail for doing everything they possibly could.
So, we are in agreement? It should be legal?
Old And Busted: Super Bowl Sunday
New Hotness: Abortion Sunday
This one will have to go all ten yards to get a new down.
Fitting when speaking of the evils played out by Satan himself, Tom Brady. #liberalsaremurderers #MAGA #conservativeshatekids #abortionpollsarelife
Did I cover every angry sentiment on this poll?
Tom Brady said for every yard he throws for today, he’s going to sponsor one abortion.
What’s he going to do for every sack? #JusticeForJohnEdwardThomasMoynahan
He said for every sack he take on the field, he’s gonna take an embryonic sac off the field. I don’t even know what that means
His golden seed is out there.
Abort whenever you want, I don't give a shit.
I agree. Not my uterus, not my problem 🤷🏻♀️
You’d give a sh*t if that was your skull being smashed in with surgical scissors and your brains ripped out all while you have pain sensory and a heartbeat 🤷🏻♂️
Eh I don’t know if he would. He seems pretty take it or leave it about his skull
Heartbeat is meaningless and pain receptors are as well. Fuck off with your bullshit.
Then why don’t you end your heartbeat?
Prince doesn’t have one... nor does prince have the logic to figure out what life is. His Arguments are completely baseless and as useless as he thinks a heartbeat is
No. If you're 9 months pregnant you can't tell me that the fetus isn't viable outside the womb. Besides, s*** or get off the pot. That decision needs to be made by the end of the first trimester at the very latest.
Don’t you think if a women wanted an abortion she *would* get it done as early as she could?? Why would she put herself through the torture of pregnancy for months to just willy nilly decide she wants to have an very intense procedure to stop it? The stories I’ve read about women who had late term abortions desperately wanted the baby, but ran into health issues with the baby and they decided it was the most humane thing to do.
There is no medical indication for a late term abortion.
@derby, exactly. It wouldn't make sense for a woman to abort that late, so why even let it happen?
Fetal abnormality, spontaneous fetal demise, or a genetic disorder.
I didn’t know either, so I’ve been trying to learn about it. And I suggest other people do that same.
I'm pretty sure that just because a baby has downs syndrome or something else is not a viable reason to kill it. At what point is that deemed unethical? Am I permitted by law to go out and kill any random person with downs syndrome just because I consider them to be "unviable?" The only difference is age. I was unaware we held babies to be such worthless creatures. This modern society's view on the value of newborns is just sad...
Again, look more into it yourself. I didn’t know reasons either and have tried to learn more about it instead of just doing the “it’s murder” finger pointing.
The stories I have read, the baby would barely survive hours/days outside of the womb because of severe abnormalities. And mothers made the hard decision that an abortion was more humane.
Those are explicitly specific cases and you know it. They do exist, of course, but they are by no means the norm. For every abortion similar to the ones you mentioned, there are ten that are just plain murder. You're telling me that out of the 120,000+ abortions committed around the world every day, each and everyone is "humane" and "merciful" like the scenario you mentioned? Please, lmao
But those instances exist! But no one wants to hear about it those. As it’s much easier to pat yourself on the back after yelling “murder!”.
I’m saying that if even one of those abortions is more humane for the baby, or safe the mother, then it should be legal.
Ugh, you're missing the point. Majority rules, you see? How can you justify anything else? How can you say even one instance of a humane use if abortion (if that even exists) justifies the millions of uses in which it is murder?
Because I can put myself in the shoes of the women in those situation and have a little empathy. I don’t think women are doing this for fun and I refuse to tell them that I know what’s best for them. Because I don’t.
In 2015 over 8000 late term abortions were performed according to the CDC.
“According to Abby Johnson, former director of a Planned Parenthood clinic, late term abortions are usually done for elective, rather than medical reasons.
“…it is false to say the women who choose late term abortion do so because of medical reasons. We refered hundreds of women to abort their babies after 24 weeks…not ONE was for medical reasons.”
So much for the argument that no woman would get a late term abortion unless “absolutely necessary”
Thanks Ebola. That pretty much sums up the horrors of it.
Why do you think women would elect to do this?
Can I have the link please? I’d like to read the full article as I do want to learn more about this.
I think you underestimate how evil people can be. You know just because they have a vagina doesn't make them a good person right?
Maybe you’re overestimating how evil people can be 🤷🏻♀️
Hitler, Ghengis Khan, Stalin, Every Communist Regime Ever. Need I go on? Humans seem to have a penchant for evil.
🤣 the comparison between those people and a women getting an abortion is a little dramatic. But thanks for the lol.
Is it though? More abortions are committed a year around the world than people died in Holodomor, the Gulags, The Armenian Genocide, The Communist Persecutions at the hands of Pol Pot, and The Holocaust combined. I'd say that's pretty catastrophic.
Derby, since you seem to be willing to learn, I’d like for you to watch these 2 videos, and then tell me what about abortion is more humane than allowing a baby, even one with abnormalities, to be born naturally, and comforted in his mother’s arms as he passes away?
Also, what you said about the torture of pregnancy....I had 4 babies, and pregnancy is NOT torture. It was some of the best times of my life! Have you ever heard of the “glow” of pregnancy?
🙄 It’s insulting to compare the killing of walking/talking/living/breathing people to the abortion of tiny fetuses that can’t even survive outside of the womb.
4JC, you could also just show anyone a video of a partial birth abortion, where the doctor jams a pair of scissors into the baby's skull and tears it apart. If someone still thinks abortion is a good thing after watching one of those videos, they're a psychopath.
Derby, we’re not talking about babies that are so tiny they can’t survive outside the womb in this poll (That would be before 22 weeks). We’re talking about abortion up to the date of birth. Did you watch the two videos?
Congrats on your great pregnancies. But it’s not like that for every women. If I didn’t want a baby I would get rid of it the first chance I could, before the sickness, pain, hormonal and mental changes and weight gain. That glow is due to an increase in skin oils, not happiness 🤣
I haven’t found a video of that, so far, Cookies. If you have one, please share the link. I agree with you. Derby, you said you’re willing to LEARN. Please watch the videos and answer my question. What about THAT is more humane than allowing a sick baby to die, comforted in his mother’s arms?
So you’re still refusing to watch the videos and learn? Don’t come here, preaching at us that we should LEARN, like you have, if you don’t have the guts to watch the videos!
And if you feel that way, you should have yourself STERILIZED before you ever sleep with a man!
Someone just said more abortions are performed each year than all the genocides combined - those numbers are for all abortions, including the ones where it is just a tiny fetus that is unviable outside the womb.
I’ve seen those videos before, you’re not going to “shock” me into agreeing with you.
You do you 💁🏻♀️
So you realize that in abortions, the limbs are torn from the baby and the skull is crushed, and you STILL think THAT is more humane than allowing a baby to die calmly in his mother’s arms, being comforted by her? That’s just SICK!
Don’t go with this “you do you” crap after you were saying that we should LEARN like you have.
We HAVE learned....we know EXACTLY what an abortion entails, but you want to close your eyes and pretend like babies aren’t torn to pieces, and that it’s more humane to do that than allow them to be born, all because you don’t want to gain weight or experience some nausea after you made the choice to sleep with someone?
What you could learn - is an ounce of empathy for the mothers involved. Just one little ounce. Instead of screaming murder to make yourself feel better.
Well, girl, you don’t really want to hear any other opinions that don’t want to agree with. So you are entitled to your opinion and I have mine. You’re not going to shock me into agreeing with you with your “tearing off limbs” sound bites. I don’t care and frankly have better things to do today than discuss this anymore. Have a good day! 🙋🏻♀️
So you’re not willing to actually watch an abortion that shows them tearing the limbs from babies? You want to continue to pretend that doesn’t happen to make yourself feel better...you’re NOT willing to learn as you said you were.
I do have compassion for women that have been LIED to about what abortion entails. They are often scarred for life because they didn’t realize what the barbaric doctor would do to their baby until it was too late!
But God will forgive her if she repents of this heinous act, and we’ve seen that happen in church when hubby has preached that God would forgive and a woman came forward and told him she had felt guilty for DECADES and he was the first one that told her that.
But for people that fight FOR abortion, knowing full well that it entails ripping a baby apart with no anesthesia, I have NO compassion, as they’re worse than the Nazis and the Romans together, killing the most innocent of all.
How about you...can you summon up one ounce of empathy for the MILLIONS of babies that have been ripped apart? Do you realize that abortion is now the NUMBER ONE cause of death worldwide? Do you realize that it’s eugenics against the African American race, when there are more black babies killed each year in America than are born alive? Are you a racist like Sanger, glad of this?
All I ever hear is "what about some empathy for the mother" but for some reason no one ever seems to care about how the baby feels. Hmmm
EXACTLY, Cookies! The baby had NO choice in this. Liberals are always ready to scream that when a child is in an abusive home situation, or when they want money to feed the poor kids that had no choice as to which family they were born into, but they never seem to remember that pre born babies had no choice, and that ALL their rights are taken away by a “mother” that acted irresponsibly (in most cases). She had her choice, but then took away her baby’s most important right of all...the right to life.
@derby , you now say you don’t CARE and don’t have time to debate this. Why, then, were you telling all of us that we should take the time to LEARN, if you won’t take the time to watch the videos and answer my question about what is more caring....tearing a baby limb from limb, or allowing him to be comforted in his mommy’s arms?
Cuz abortion activists get real meek when they actually think about what they're defending. When they really deeply look into what abortion actually is, they realize how shitty of a human being they are.
Most of them REFUSE to look at what it really entails. They’ve been lied to all their lives in school, told that this is just a mass of cels, that it’s not a baby, not alive, not even a human being!
They haven’t studied medical journals and textbooks that plainly say that life begins at conception, they haven’t studied pregnancy and childbirth books or websites that show them what their baby is doing and how it’s growing week by week in the very early stages of life, because they want to JUSTIFY their barbarism.
They refuse to watch videos like Dr. Levatino’s, an OB/GYN that performed thousands of abortions, before he lost his own child and could no longer stomach what he was doing.
They refuse to listen to Norma McCorvey, the original case that Roe V. Wade was built on, when she said it’s the biggest regret of her life, and she mourns for all the empty playgrounds....all those babies that were killed because she was USED by abortion activists.
Oh my god lady, get over yourself. I get it, you’re up there on your Christian high horse, to judge me. That’s fine, I’m judging you too. I don’t care if the abortion procedure involves removing the limbs from a fetus. I have read a lot about what goes into these, and stories from the people actually involved. And I don’t think we can pretend to know if the fetus could actually even comprehend “being comforted in it’s mothers arms”, but nice try.
YOU DON’T HAVE TO HAVE AN ABORTION!! I DON’T WANT TO HAVE AN ABORTION!! Women are more than an incubator and I am not going to even try and think that it’s my place to control what’s going on in another person’s body.
Gonna have to agree to disagree on this one because you don’t care about actual reasons for these procedure and I am not going to be persuaded by your videos of medical procedures.
Go enjoy your children and have a nice day 🙋🏻♀️
lol it doesn't even need to be considered from a religious perspective bro. even solely scientifically, it's killing a living human being. women don't deserve that right just for being women
Did you miss the part where I said that I have compassion on those women that have been lied to and that God can forgive those that have killed their own children?
You don’t CARE. That’s the problem....people like you that don’t care about a baby’s pain when it’s ripped limb from limb, and it’s skull is crushed!
And it’s apparent that you’ve never HAD a baby of even been around any mothers with babies, if you don’t think a baby is comforted by it’s mother. Studies show that a baby in the womb responds to it’s mother’s and father’s VOICES while still in the womb! You really don’t think that they could be comforted by the mother’s touch after birth?
2) Studies have also shown that a mother’s touch can be HEALING to a baby in NICU that is born prematurely. That’s why parents are encouraged to spend time stroking their babies that are confined to their incubators, hooked up to machines that are helping them live!
In fact, other studies in orphanages have shown that babies HAVE to have that touch or they die!
You apparently haven’t LEARNED much of anything about conception, pregnancy, premature babies, or birth! I suggest that you read just one book about conception, pregnancy and childbirth, if you DARE.
If you do, you’ll learn what Cookies is saying.....that human life begins at conception. At the point of conception, the DNA is determined, the genetic blueprint is there, the sex is determined, the blood type is determined, the unique set of fingerprints is there.
“if you DARE” 🤣🤣🤣 Ooo now you’re daring me?! 🤣
Lady you have no idea what my family situation is, but thanks for judging. 🙄
Again, don’t like abortion. Don’t get one. Leave other women alone.
Yes, I’m CHALLENGING you to read a book to learn about conception, pregnancy and childbirth, since you won’t watch the videos about abortion. I don’t see how anyone with any compassion can watch these videos and not cry for these little babies.
I can NOT leave other women alone, because I’ve seen women that have been crushed by the abortion industry, which is just in it to make money. It has left them with lifelong repercussions. I have COMPASSION on them and the babies that have been killed.
There are those of us that CARE about these women and their children, just like we care about people that get hooked on drugs, or people that are attacked by criminals.
We will NOT sit down and SHUT UP! We will continue to advocate for innocent babies until everyone sees abortion as more barbaric than what the Nazis did to the Jews and the Romans did to Christians...the killing of INNOCENTS that had no choice in the matter.
2) As science shows more and more just how developed babies are in the very early weeks after conception, and as we’re able to SAVE babies that are born prematurely at earlier and earlier stages (its at 22 weeks right now) it’s my hope that one day, we will look back on this period of history and people of this age will be judged as being on the wrong side of history, just like we look at people that owned slaves as being on the wrong side of history.
I think 4jc might be a bit more extreme on this subject than me, maybe because she's a mother herself, but c'mon derby, you know that's a weak argument. "Don't like something, don't do it, but leave other people alone." Really? If you followed that mantra for everything in life, the world would be an even bigger shithole than it already is. "Oh, well I don't agree with Ted Bundy going out and murdering 30 women, but it's his choice!" Get outta here.
Thanks for voicing it that way, Cookies.....I meant to say something to that effect...we don’t just leave murderers alone....we don’t leave drug dealers that effect other’s lives alone....we don’t leave thieves alone. All of these people affect the lives of others.
And a “mother” that kills her own baby affects the life of that child more than ANY of these other scenarios!
Sorry for the typo on my second “effect”. I DO know the difference! Lol
And after all, Derby started this, with the comment that we should LEARN something and then refuses to watch the videos or read books to learn something themselves, after saying that he or she is open to learning!
“I’ve seen women that have been crushed by the abortion industry, which is just in it to make money. It has left them with lifelong repercussions”. And I know women who have had abortions and then continue to have happy, normal, successful lives. Some having kids in the future.
I think there is a difference between something you do to yourself and something you do to others (100% know you’re not going to agree with that, as you think a fetus should have the exact same rights as an adult women, but I don’t.).
I don’t think we should leave a serial killer or a thief alone, because they are impacting others.
Again, I don’t want an abortion. I have always believed women should be able to have abortions up until the point a fetus could survive outside the womb. But I also believe specific circumstances should allow abortions later if the doctors feels that’s the best choice.
🙄🙄 JFC bitch. I watched your videos!!! Quit acting like you know every thing I do!!
Why shouldn’t a baby have a right to life? Do you disagree with our Founding Fathers that said that ALL of us have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Why do you think that doesn’t include babies? And if it doesn’t include babies because they’re an inconvenience, do you believe the same thing about mothers that have children that are a couple of months old and get tired of hearing them scream and murder them because it’s not CONVENIENT to hear them scream all the time?
What about mothers that decide that teaching their child to use the potty is too inconvenient? What about those that decide that teaching their children not to be brats is inconveninent?
What about men who believe that their wives are cramping their style and murder THEM?
What about people who have elderly, infirm parents, and don’t want to deal with the inconvenience? Is it alright to murder them? What about those with mentally ill kids or parents that are disabled? Alright to kill all them?
You said that you had watched videos LIKE that before, leading me to believe that you did NOT watch these, especially since you intimated that babies are NOT torn limb for limb. What did you think about what Dr. Levatino said in the video? And what did you think about the choice of music in the abortion video?
Simple. You can have the right to your own life when you’re living outside of someone else’s body.
Jesus you’re dramatic.
The music?!? 🤣 not a fan of jazz myself 🤷🏻♀️
I’m dramatic because those scenarios is what this is leading to. At first, it was supposed to be that abortion was RARE and only for worst case scenarios. Then it became acceptable for ANY reason, up to a certain time. And NOW, it’s apparently acceptable in NY to kill a baby that would have been born 10 minutes later.
A lack of respect for ALL human life will eventually lead to no respect for ANY human life. We’re already seeing that with insurance companies that are telling doctors that they will NOT cover long treatment plans for their patients, but, “have you considered telling your patient about assisted suicide? We’ll cover THAT!”
2) We’ve seen it in countries calling for the abortions of those with Downs Syndrome. We are seeing it in those that are calling for abortions just because they don’t want a certain sex baby....which reminds me of the barbaric practice of thousands of years ago, in which parents dumped FEMALE babies in ditches.
We’ve seen it in hospitals pulling the plug on people in comas, despite their family’s wishes. We will begin to see it in euthanasia of those that are mentally ill, the infirm, the disabled, as they, too, are seen as “not productive members of society” and too inconvenient to have around!
So you at least watched the first few seconds to hear the music. It though it was in poor taste to pick such upbeat movie for such a sad video.
What about what Dr. Levatino said in the other video?
His description of the procedure didn’t change my mind. But it’s fine that he changed his based on his experiences 🤷🏻♀️
So to be clear, you’re perfectly fine with babies being ripped limb from limb and their skulls crashed, up to the date of birth and you think this is more compassionate than allowing a baby that can survive outside the womb, even if it’s sick, to be born naturally, and comforted in his or her mother’s arms before he or she dies?
And if so.....make your point. WHAT is more compassionate about ripping them limb from limb than allowing them the comfort of their mother’s love during their last moments on earth?
I believe a women should be able to have an abortion up until the point the fetus can survive outside the womb on its own. I also believe that abortion should be allowed later if her doctor decides that’s in the best interest of her and/or the fetus.
Thanks for the rousing conversation, but I really have to focus on some work now. So have a nice day 🙋🏻♀️
Ok. Agree to disagree. Have a nice day.
But you have inspired a new poll! Lol
Is that your favorite cide? There’s suicide, regicide, patricide, matricide. Did I miss any?
D- I’m down with making infanticide apart of abortion, too. Legalize abortion through age seven, that’s what I say!
I’m partial to insecticide.
Ah, obviously you are not Turkish
Insecticide! I forgot about that one. Great cide!
Famacide, the killing of a reputation is a good one and then my all time favorite, linguicide committed by JinaKiller.
Without any restrictions up to fetal viability (approx 24 weeks), and after that if it is a less risky alternative than inducing labor or is otherwise medically indicated. Still legal, but with reasonable limitations.
Define reasonable limitation in this context
Zod, there is no medical indication for a late term abortion.
Ebola - yet medical doctors do them. It’s almost like ...you’re wrong. Because they’d be called in front of a medical review committee and have their license removed if you were right.
In some states they are and would even be prosecuted with the possibly of imprisonment. Just because it is legal doesn’t mean that it is medically indicated.
Keep in mind I’m talking about late term abortions, not abortions before 24 weeks.
The justification to perform an abortion can be as vague as “affect the health of the mother” without a definition of what that means, making it easy to justify an unnecessary procedure.
The fee for performing a late term abortion goes up exponentially making these procedures very lucrative for the doctor.
The fact is that any medical condition affecting the health of the mother after 24 weeks can be cured by delivering the infant and that is much safer than an abortion in the late term.
I actually can’t think of a medical indication that would justify a late term abortion. Can you?
I do not accept for one minute that late term abortions are never medically justified. I do think it is reasonable to prohibit them, or at least ethically discourage them, in cases where inducing labor is no more risky than the late term procedure.
“I do not accept for one minute that late term abortions are never medically justified.”
As a physician I can say that you are simply wrong. Feel free to share any instances where they are justified.
This doctor can:
“Conditions that might lead to ending a pregnancy to save a woman's life include severe infections, heart failure and severe cases of preeclampsia, a condition in which a woman develops very high blood pressure and is at risk for stroke, says Erika Levi, a obstetrician and gynecologist at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.”
"There are certain cases where ending the pregnancy is the only option, cases where it would be putting the mother's life at risk to continue the pregnancy," she says.”
“Cassing Hammond, an associate professor of obstetrics and gynecology at Northwestern Feinberg School of Medicine, Chicago, says cases in which doctors must decide whether it is safe for a pregnant woman to deliver a fetus in a medical crisis are complex and outside the expertise of doctors who do not perform the procedures. He says he sees many such cases.”
For me it is simple. Acceptance of risk should never be up to anyone not at risk.
Those are speaking of all stages of pregnancy including early pregnancy. I’m speaking of late term abortions. Virtually all of those indications can be “cured” by delivery of the infant and it would be much safer than a late term abortion.
Which I think I offered above. If inducing labor to deliver now, or having Caesarian to deliver now would involve less risk than having an abortion now, then that less risky procedure would be the one of choice. Which is why she has a doctor to help guide her through the options. But not all problems that would pose a risk to the woman are limited to early pregnancy, or would allow inducing labor, or even carrying to term if that is her preference, and in those cases, abortion should not only be "allowed", it would be indicated. Not to mention the other obvious reasons she might consider and choose to end her pregnancy. Her life is the first priority, her health and well-being is the second. There is no other priority or consideration.
“Preference” is not a medical indication for a late term abortion.
While I agree with some of what you say there are virtually no medical conditions that would preclude delivery of the infant in late term.
I agree with Ebola 100% on this, and have read statements by several OB/GYNs that say so. I can quote them here, if you want.
But one thing you mentioned, Zod, is that is why she has a DOCTOR. You DO realize that the NY law has now made it legal for a NURSE to do an abortion, right?
In some states, nurse midwives (those trained specifically in childbirth and complications) aren’t allowed to DELIVER babies (a natural condition that happens even if there is NO medical professional to help), but a NURSE can rip one apart from inside a mothers womb, crush it’s skull and lay the pieces of the baby on a tray to try to make sure she’s gotten all of them so the woman doesn’t DIE from infection? That’s a RIDICULOUS step back for women’s “health” and all feminists should be screaming from the rooftops about it!
Preference from among the options presented to her by her doctor. Because it is up to her to decide which course is right for her, nobody else's. Not even her doctor.
No comments about nurses performing dangerous “procedures” on women?
Only half true. That’s why we have doctors, to advise on the best course of action. If the patient want to choose a course of action other than what is best the doctor has no obligation to oblige her.
Let me ask you this, Zod....do you realize that in the VAST majority of cases, unless there is a complication, that mothers could deliver their own babies with NO help....it’s something that happens naturally, and is a force of nature.....there is no stopping it (without medication), and it just happens.
At my first birth, the doctor told my FIL that all he did was catch my baby.
Now, knowing that even if a mother has no help, she can deliver her own baby by herself....(and this HAS been done), compare that to abortions. Have you EVER heard of a woman that decided to have an abortion and did it herself without complications that brought her close to death, or killed her?
That shows the difference between these two scenarios....birth is a natural thing, unless there are complications. Abortion is NOT. That makes birth the no-brainer safest way to deal with any of these instances, even if a doctor has to do an emergency c-section, which is safer than having to count body parts.
And any “doctor” that would advise that a woman kill her baby when that baby could more safely be delivered intact and live is as unethical as they come, and just in it for the money!
No need, I've read the nonsense on Twitter. As well as the coherent and highly credentialed and qualified rebuttals to every word of it. It doesn’t change a thing either way. For whatever reason (I'm going to go way out in left field and guess religion in most cases), there are some who are arbitrarily opposed to abortion (arbitrarily because it isn’t theirs). When this group as a whole carved out exceptions that completely undermined their position (health/life of the woman, incest, rape, etc), they no longer had an argument. So now they have invented a new lie in an attempt to salvage their argument, that the health of the woman is irrelevant, and the life of the woman could never be at risk due to a pregnancy. No word yet on the "fix" for their failed argument in the cases of rape or incest, but it seems likely that that lie, when invented, like this lie (she'll be fine), will not fly.
There are a lot of pro-life people that do NOT make exceptions for incest, rape & the life of the mother. I would NEVER have had an abortion for any of these reasons. I have a family member that was raped by a black man & gave birth to and raised that mixed child in the state of AL, when that was NOT acceptable to do. People like this say that just because the father is a rapist doesn’t make 2 wrongs a right, & that the baby shouldn’t die because the father was a rapist.
There are others that feel compassion on women like that & do make an exception, but ONLY for that reason. After all, they say, abortion as set up under Roe V. Wade was SUPPOSED to be RARE, not a form of birth control after the fact!
They’re at least willing to COMPROMISE, but I’ve NEVER met a pro-abortion person that is willing to compromise, and keep abortion to ONLY the life of the mother, rape or incest. Have you?
And of course, this new law isn’t about the LIFE of the mother, but the HEALTH of the other.
Also, religion is PART of the reason that I’m against abortion, but also SCIENCE. Science proves that at the moment of conception, the DNA is determined, the genetic blueprint is there, the sex is determined, the blood type is determined, the unique set of fingerprints is there. At conception, this is a child, a human being, separate from it’s mother and father. You can’t disprove that, although the pro-abortion has tried to brainwash young adults otherwise!
I think it’s ridiculous that liberals are always crying, “Science, Science” when it comes to evolution and global warming, but refuse to look at the science of conception, pregnancy and childbirth!
Zod, my views are based on scientific and medical facts, not religion.
To me, all three of you are arguing very similar, very conservative views. Zod is the only one attempting to be honest by including that his opinion shouldn’t bind the woman to act. In other words, he doesn’t see pregnancy as slavery to the state. While that’s still conservative compared to my view, it is him trying to see there is more in this conversation than his own opinion. Good for you, Zod.
Ebola, my last comment and yours...much the same, one minute apart. Lol
I think if all these young people were required in school to read just ONE book about pregnancy and childbirth, it would make a HUGE difference. But instead, they’re being brainwashed, and NOT taught the science of conception and pregnancy. If they could see what I did, the growth and what my baby was doing, week by week, in the very early weeks of pregnancy, I would hope it would change hearts and minds. But they’re brainwashed so badly that they want to justify abortion at all costs!
I’ve never heard anything about pregnancy being slavery to the state, Mad. That’s ridiculous. Pregnancy is the state you find yourself in after having sex. It’s the growing baby inside you, the results of your love for your partner. If you don’t WANT to be pregnant, your choices are simply...ABSTAIN or use protection. Of course, abstention is the ONLY 100% perfect birth control!