Should abortion be legal throughout the full term of a pregnancy?
The "my body, my choice" argument is one of the most frequently used in the abortion debate.
Women believe that their own autonomy prevents the government from telling them what to do.
But here's the problem: the unborn child inside of them is also a human being—a distinct person that deserves the right to life.
At the moment of conception, all 46 chromosomes are already in place. That means the baby's hair color, eye color, height, and countless other features have already been determined.
Does a pregnant woman have four arms, four legs, two hearts, two sets of lungs, and four feet? Obviously not.
There are two bodies present: the woman's body and the body of the child.
A baby has a functioning nervous system after 12 weeks and 90% of abortions take place after 13 weeks. So it can feel it limbs being torn apart and it try’s to get away from the danger. If you can still tell me it’s just a clump of cells then watch an abortion 13 weeks into the pregnancy on an ultrasound. Then tell me if it’s a clump of cells, and FYI things that aren’t alive can’t grow.
If anyone can save any of those babies, Bring them to me. I will take all that I can.
I’m with you Suzan.
Exactly Suzan. They always try to save the life of both the mother and baby.
I said no, but it should he allowed in the first month or 2 when its just a cluster of cells or if there will be physical harm to the mom at any point in the pregnancy.
Very early abortion is basically the same thing as throwing a condom with sperm in it away or a tissue with sperm awat but good luck convincing people the masturbation is illegal, youll have a lot of fellon baby killers if thats the case lol.
Abortion is absolutely disgusting. Just think about the baby not yourself. What if that was u being murdered.
After a certain time period when the baby can feel pain I believe it should be illegal. But I don't think we should make abortion illegal. For everyone say the women should use birth of and if they get pregnant it's their fault.
What about women who get raped shouldn't they have a right to abort their pregnancy. It is not their fault of they were raped. Even kids can get raped and get pregnant if they have had their period. Should they have to go though a pregnancy.
U do have a point but it is not right to do a abortion. There gonna have to deal with the pregnancy. Abortion is cruel and should be illegal everywhere.
If you need to get rid of a perfectly healthy baby at 9 months old, you deserve to thrown in jail. You're an idiot in the highest caliber. You deserve to be beaten within an inch of your life and feasted on by Big Bertha, and every lesbo on cellblock 6 till you bleed
Didn't Clinton ban partial birth abortion? And someone else overturned it? Can't remember
Thank you. So needed to be said.
How 'bout post-birth abortion?...😃
Dr. Kermit Gosnell, for Man of the Year Award!
Isn’t that still murder?
Pro choice and for birth control more than anything, but come on folks, you gotta make these decisions quickly, and certainly in the 1st trimester , or tough it out and give the baby up for adoption.
It's fucking murder. More so than ever! If the CHILD can be removed and live it's no longer a "lump of cells" as democrats say.
Now what's your excuse?
You 15% who voted yes are messed up.
Especially you 40% Democrats. Shame on you.
What the hell is wrong with these people?
oh man - thank the flying spaghetti monster we have this question again...
did we solve the problem yet? we’re all in agreement this time, right?
I think aborting a perfectly healthy baby after the first term is wrong. You had those first few months to get one, not to mention plenty of options for birth control to prevent this from happening in the first place (for the most part).
Only if your a murderer, like all democrats. Just let the killing continue you leftist pukes
I'm not the Governor of Virginia
A baby that is grown enough to survive without the mother. Has a right to not be killed. The words, "right up until birth" is an evil statement. The national socialist workers party had the same view with mentally retarded people because they didnt want to care for them, than it was by race, too young, too old. Than everyone the smart people they wanted their jobs, their homes, their living space. Not again democrat/socialists.
As I write this 85% say it should not be allowed. 40% of the Dems say yes (it’s okay to kill them up to and including the birth?!)
Think about that for a moment. Put yourself in the room. The baby can feel pain; but doesn’t know why. I think about it and it makes me sick!!
Those laws are written as such if the mother is in serious danger
There has never been a case in history where the baby would have to be killed so the mother could live, birthed yes, killed no.
Toadder bullshit. It has those as well as the words for health reasons. What the hell is that? Vague at best and it doesn't have to be a doctor deciding the health issue. Read it again.
My understanding is the law is in accordance with Roe v Wade. If its unconstitutional I suspect it will be challenged in the courts immediately and then overuled.
Toad, they have always given a cesarean to a late term baby to save both. Never just to kill the baby.
Her body her choice? Ok, but be an adult and make a damn choice quick.
No, I'm not in favor of infanticide (or any other type of murder for that matter).
Why do you care if a mother completely unrelated to you has a baby or not? How does it effect your life?
For the same reason that I care if a mother completely unrelated to me kills her newborn baby. Or the same reason that I care if any person completely unrelated to me kills any other person, regardless of the stage of life of that other person. Murder is murder. It's not about how it affects my life. It's about the life of the baby.
You sure as hell don’t carry on about other “murders” as you do about abortions, huh? If you really felt the way you say you’d be carrying on about innocent adults being murdered also.
Chad, adults can defend themselves. Babies are incapable of that privilege.
Chad, your comments are pretty ridiculous.
First off, to ask the question “why do you care? How does it affect your life?” - well you could say the exact same thing about slavery, couldn’t you? If you aren’t a slave and it doesn’t affect your life, what do you care if someone else owns slaves? The answer is because people have certain rights. And they those rights need to be looked out for. If we as a society do not protect the rights of unborn children to live, nobody else will.
In terms of other murders, the murdering of innocent adults IS NOT LEGAL. Murdering of unborn babies is. That’s the distinction. If you don’t recognize that, there’s not much else to discuss.
unforgvnn, OMG! You’re talking about something that happened 150 yrs. ago! I’m talking about a mother’s rights now!
Cookies, what if the adult is unable to defend themselves? What is it’s a child that’s 4-10 years old?
OMG Chad! Do you seriously not understand the parallel that I am talking about? When slavery was legal, folks like you said "I'm talking about a property owners rights to own a slave." Today, you are saying "I'm talking about a mother's rights." But both then AND now, it is about the individual whose rights are being unjustly taken away. During slavery, it was the right to freedom that was taken away. Today, it is the right to life. The arguments you are making today about abortion are identical to the arguments pro-slavery folks made 150 years ago. If you are anti-slavery, then you can see how it wasn't about a property owners rights, it was about the rights of the slaves. Today, for pro-life people, it's not about the rights of the mothers, it is about the rights of the unborn babies.
unforgvnn, LOOK! Bottom line it is none of your or anyone else’s business what a woman does with their own body! I know you’ll probably give me some history lesson here but slaves did not have rights! If they did they wouldn’t be slaves! Unborn babies do not have rights either. The mother has a right to terminate a pregnancy if she chooses!
That’s the ENTIRE point. Slaves did not have rights under the law, and that was WRONG. They should not be slaves and should have the same rights as everyone else. Which is exactly what the civil war was largely about. Slavery was abolished and slaves gained equal rights.
My position is the same with abortion. I reject your assertion that the mother’s rights trump the right to live of her unborn baby. That’s why I think abortion is immoral and why I want to see it ended.
If you disagree and believe the unborn child does not have those rights, then we have an unreconcilable difference and will have to agree to disagree.
But for pro-life people, it’s not about the moms. It’s about the rights of the unborn child.
Mothers rights trumps (no joke intended) he babies so called rights.
And that, Chad, is the core, fundamental difference we have. I believe the unborn babies rights reign supreme.
So at least now you understand why pro-life people care what happens to a baby not in our family. You obviously don’t agree, but you can understand.
Nope, still don’t understand why you care about what happens to someone completely unrelated to you. You can’t worry about everyone.
That’s BS. We MUST worry about the basic rights of everyone. Once we start not caring about the rights of others, we are doomed. Because eventually, the government will take away rights you do care about. And if and when that happens, you are going to hope there are other people out there you don’t know advocating for your rights.
So you mean to tell me that you care about the rights of every single man, woman & child that has ever lived? Then that would mean you care about the rights of pregnant mothers right to abort herchild if she chooses.
Boy, it’s tough getting through to you Chad. A person’s rights ends at the point that they infringe on someone else’s rights.
I have the right to own a gun. That doesn’t mean I have the right to shoot you because my right to own (and use) a gun cannot trump your to live.
Likewise, the rights of a woman to "decide what to do with her body" do not trump the rights of the unborn child to live.
So, according to you criminals have no rights. No rights to a lawyer, no rights to a trial & no rights to be treated fairly. No, you never will get through to me.
How on earth did you arrive at the conclusion that I think criminals have no rights based on what I said?? Please explain...
You just said a persons rights end when they infringe on someone else rights. Aren’t criminals infringing on the rights of the people they commit the crimes against?
Aren’t murderers infringing on their victims right to live? Before you say abortion is murder. Murder is illegal, abortion is not!
Let me clarify for you since you obviously did not understand what I was saying.
A person is stop stripped of ALL rights if they infringe on someone else's rights. I am saying that a specific right you have stops if using that right infringed on someone else's right.
We have the right to free speech. But you do not have the right to yell "fire" in a crowded theater if there is no fire because that can cause harm (in a panic). So at that moment, you do not have freedom of speech in that specific example. Does that make sense?
Murder is illegal, but pro-life people like myself view abortion as murder which is why we would like to see abortion outlawed.
You’re not explaining anything! You’re just trying to justify what you said & going on & on about rights of people that lived 150 years ago & about rights about unborn children.
Sorry you apparently either aren't mature enough or intelligent enough to understand and carry on the conversation. Don't know what else to say that might make it simplistic enough for you to understand. Hope you have a great day!
I’m mature enjoy enough to know you cannot worry about every single person! That makes yours sound like some 5 year old girl who wants to hug & kiss every person they meet.
If you say so, Chad, if you say so. I hope one day you will understand how important rights are.
I worry about people that actually have rights! Unborn babies do not have rights! Slaves did not have rights! We had to go to war for them to get rights! So should we have another civil war to end abortion?
No. I would like to see a law passed outlawing abortion and recognizing the right to live of unborn babies. That is my solution. You probably disagree. If so, we will have to agree to disagree.
Chad the fact that you're comparing slaves to unborn babies just proves to me how wrong abortion is.
Oh brother, here’s another one who thinks they should have any say over what a woman does to her own body. Slavery was legal & abortion is legal. Until abortion is made illegal you have absolutely no say in this.
Dang Chad, you just don't get it! We are advocating to make abortion illegal. And absolutely we have a say in whether or not we want certain legislation passed.
Slavery was immoral and wrong. People spoke out against it and faught to end it. I believe abortion is immoral and wrong and I am speaking out against it and fighting to end it because I hope that, in 150 years, it'll be commonly seen to be just as reprehensible as people with common sense see slavery today.
unforgvnn, glad I’ll be dead when a mother’s rights is taken away. I thought you said agree to disagree?
I did. I never saw you agree to disagree, so I decided to keep countering your points.
As far as you comment that says you're glad you'll be dead when a mother's right is taken away, I'll be there were a bunch of white racists that once said the exact same thing about slave owners with regards to their "property".
I was responding to Cookies response. Then you chose to chime in again when I wasn’t even talking to you! You need to live by what you say.
I understand why you want me to stop responding because I'm crushing all of your arguments by using logical retorts.
You responded to cookie and I had a thought that countered it. Yes, we disagree. I agree that we disagree. That doesn't mean I can no longer reply to things you post.
"when a mothers rights are taken away" sorry but you're not a mother if you have your unborn baby brutally slaughtered
After you said to agree to disagree I was going to stop. Then Cookies made their response, I responded to their response, you made a response to that. You haven’t dispelled anything! You believe an unborn baby has rights I believe they do not.
I understand. I still felt compelled to reply. Apologies if you don't like that. I know we are going to have to agree to disagree in the end. That doesn't mean the debate necessarily must stop.
Cookies, yeah you’re right if the baby is aborted not brutally slaughtered then they aren’t mother’s any more.
Yeah, so don't call her a mother. She's a monster.
Cookies, nope, she was making the probably the most difficult decision of her life. You call her a monster I call her a responsible person knowing having the baby wasn’t the right thing to do to at that point in her life. Don’t give me the adoption BS either!
Well why not? What's so hard about holding onto the baby and giving it up for adoption? At least then, she won't feel so shitty after making the "most difficult decision of her life."
Orphanages are filled with children no one wants! Rather have an aborted child than another kid in the system.
Funny. My oldest daughter is adopted and I love her like my own. And I would much prefer being alive and adopted that killed before birth. That’s just me though. 🙂
Lmao Chad do you know how ridiculous you sound. I think I speak for literally everyone but you when I say every human who has ever lived would prefer to live through childhood as an orphan than not have a chance to live at all. You sound manic, shut your mouth and sit down.
So you’d rather have a child sit in an orphanage unloved, unwanted? Of course every person that lived would choose to live. That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard in a long time! Unborn babies to not have that choice. That’s up to the parents! Your dammed right I’m manic! People like you that think that have any say to what a woman does to their own bodies piss me off!
I sound about as ridiculous to you as you do to me. Makes us even doesn’t it?
Chad, do you understand that for us on the pro-life side, it isn't about the woman or her body? That isn't the motivation for us being pro-life? That it is entirely about believing the unborn child has the same right to live as you or me out anyone else that has been born? Even if you don't agree, do you understand that is the motivation for us?
Nope, cause it’s none of your business no matter how you explain it.
So you think my motivation is to take away women's rights? When I think about abortion, I don't think "I want to protect the unborn baby", but rather I think "I want to take away the rights of that woman"? That's what you think?
Like I just said it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter if your for an unborn baby’s so called rights. For umpteenth time! It is none of your or anyone’s business what a woman does to their own body & unborn baby!
Chad, who says unborn babies don't have rights? Are they human? Yes. Are they living? Yes. The only difference between an unborn child and you or me is age. This isn't about women's rights. They gave up their rights when they chose to partake in sexual activity. That has consequences. You sign up for pregnancy when you have sex. When a baby is conceived, it has every right to live.
Is there a reason you are refusing to answer my question?
I did answer your question! It doesn’t matter what your reason is!
Cookies, no they do not have rights! How is an unborn baby going to enforce those “rights”?! They cannot! So it up to the mother to make decisions for it!
Ok, I'll bite. A 2 year old can't advocate for it's rights either, so can the mother kill a 2 year old?
Okay Chad. You aren't going to answer. Got it.
What about an adult that is in a coma that does not require machinery to keep them alive. They breathe on their own, but are simply in a coma. Would it be acceptable to stab and kill that person? They cannot defend their own rights in that state...
Cookies, nope, she’d be tried with murder. Ending a born child’s life is illegal. Ending the life of an unborn child is not
unforgvnn, how is me saying it’s doesn’t matter what your motivation is not answering your question? A person in a coma is hopefully in the hospital with people around to defend them. Killing an adult is illegal. Killing an unborn baby is not!
I asked you a yes or no question. "Do you understand that my motivation is not to take away the rights of women, but to defend the rights of the unborn child?" - Yes or no question. You haven't answered it.
If that person in a coma has adults around that want them dead, is it then okay for them to kill the person in the coma? You said that an unborn baby cannot enforce their right to live. So it is up to the mother to decide. A person in a coma cannot enforce their right to live. Therefore, isn't it up to the people around them and, if they decide that person should be killed, slitting their throat and killing them should be entirely allowed?
I answered your question. You just didn’t get the answer you wanted. If the family of the comatose person requests for the plug to be pulled then it should be pulled. Just like the mothers request to end her unborn child’s life.
You didn't and still aren't answering it. But whatever. Let's move on.
I *specifically* said the person in the coma isn't being kept alive by machinery. They can breathe and live on their own, they are just unconscious. They would have to be actively killed rather than "pulling the plug" to stop a breathing machine, etc.
Chad, the law dictates that, and it would do you well to not believe what the law states is morally right or not. Remember at one point, segregation and slavery were legal. Just because some crooked politicians say you can do it, doesn't mean you should.
It just boggles my mind how you think me saying that it doesn’t matter what your motivation is isn’t answering your question? I don’t care what your motivation is. Your trying to twist point about comatose or non comatose people just prove your point.
So you have absolutely no retort. Which, logically, you can't. I'm not twisting anything. It is very straight-forward.
If you believe that the reason abortion should be allowed in because an unborn child cannot enforce their own rights, then that logic can be extended to an adult that also cannot enforce their own rights. To be consistent, you have to support killing an adult in a coma if you support killing an unborn baby if the foundation of your argue is "ability to enforce ones own rights".
Call it a victory for you but I’m done. Bye.
Have a great night!
It's not a victory until babies are no longer slaughtered, but ok.
Well us pro choicers had our victory with Roe vs. Wade. So you just keep whining, Cookies.
One day abortion advocates will pay for their crimes. Probably not today, probably not this year, maybe not even ten years from now, but justice will come.
Oh and also, the woman who started roe v Wade regretted it afterwards and said it was the worst decision of her life, but ok.
Abortion is not a crime! So if abortion is abolished every woman that got an abortion should be tried with murder? Yeah, good luck with that.
And I’m sure women that have gotten abortions regret it later on but it’s to late now, huh?
So Chad, you support abortion at every stage of pregnancy? Up until the moment of birth?
"Abortion is not a crime!" Not in the eyes of the politicians, but then again, they trade their morals for blindfolds.
Yes! Do I think it’s right? No not really. That is the decision of the mother.
Cookies, then complain to the politicians! Don’t take it out on the mothers for merely using the right they gave them.
You do realize that in all but 9 states, abortion is NOT legal in the third trimester, right?
It should be legal in all states no matter what stage of pregnancy.
I understand the argument for abortion in the first trimester. I don't agree with it, but I understand it.
But how on earth do you justify aborting a baby that is full term and minutes away from being born? How do you tell yourself that isn't flat out murder. What changes between then and an hour later when the baby is born?
unforgvnn, ask the mother, not me. Not my place or right to say.
But you are advocating for legalizing abortion until the end of pregnancy. How is it not murder in your eyes to abort a baby 10 minutes before it is born?
Once again, ask the mother. Not my right or place to say.
But I am asking you. If you don't have the spine to take a stance, then don't advocate for it. Either you believe it is murder or you don't. Which is it?
OMG! How long have we been talking? You can’t figure it out by now. No, it is not murder! I’m not abdicating the abortion I’m abdicating the mothers right to choose.
Okay. I surrender. I don't have the energy to continue this with you tonight.
I find your lack of morals and flagrant disregard for human life disgusting. That you support making it legal to scramble the brains of a full term baby, killing it minutes before it is born. And somehow tell yourself it isn't murder. It simply mystifies me.
I really hope your respect for human life increases in the future.
What mystifies me is that you think you have the right to say what a woman do with her own body & why you wanna care about every single human life on earth.
I'm done too. You're disgusting, Chad. Again, we aren't telling the mother what she can or can't do with her own body. It's her CHILD'S body that we're concerned about. I'm done with this. I sincerely hope people like you are a rare occurrence in this world. The opposite would be too horrifying to even consider.
The baby is inside the mothers body so yes you are telling her what she can & can’t do with it!
Amen Cookie. I am guessing that Chad is very young and immature. Not that that along is excuse, but hopefully he'll do some maturing as he grows up.
I’m mature enough to let people make their own decisions and not poke my nose where it doesn’t belong!
Also mature enough to go by real first name. Unlike cowards like you with fake ass. And like unforgvnn & IEatzCookies!
fake ass names like unforgvnn & IEatzCookies!
Ah yes. A clear sign of maturity. Insulting the people you disagree with. I really appreciate you making my point over and over Chad! You make things so easy for me!
In your past posts you have called me unintelligent & immature. So who’s insulting who?
I insulted you the same way you insulted me because we can not get our points across to the other. So get off your high horse.
Goodnight Chad. I really hope that one day, your rights hang in the balance, but that somebody will stand up for your rights unlike you who sees nothing wrong with flat our murdering babies. Sleep well. I'm officially not wasting anymore time on you. You disgust me.
You disgust me also, good night.
I’ll sleep very well knowing that a woman’s rights are still protected, You have a pleasant nights sleep thinking about all those aborted children.
Chad, at what age should a person have constitutional rights to life liberty? Do you have those rights? Should someone that doesn’t know you, like a policeman, protect your life? Or should there be no constitutional protections for people and you’re just on your own to protect yourself from harm? How about tiny helpless children and babies? Should they have to defend themselves? Or should we as society have rules to protect the innocent? You know, just in case you need help and nobody else cares about you.
breck, when there born, yes, yes, no, what about them?, no, yes.
So what makes them citizens with protections?
Who? People in general? When they leave the mothers body they have they’re own rights. Inside the womb the mother has the rights.
So what gives them rights as citizens when they’re out of the womb?
How far out of the womb do they have to be to have rights? A pinky? The body without the head or does the head have to be out too?
I know what you’re doing! Leading me along question by question until I agree with you or you make whatever point you’re trying to make. Go away!
Is the definition of citizen with rights difficult to define when you use an ancient definition of birth? It’s definitely difficult when you have a cesarean section and you have a baby that is months from being born suddenly a citizen simply because it hit the air. These are unbelievable definitions that make no sense. It’s like you’re not a citizen while you’re underwater holding your breath, have no rights and can be killed without penalty simply because you’re not out in the air. It’s ludicrous. Do you think that a fetus becomes a sentient being before it’s born? With a heartbeat, brainwaves, thoughts and dreams? Because it does happen well before it hits the air.
You cannot defend your position. You should just admit that it’s impossible to define a citizen with rights as someone that his in the air. That’s ludicrous. So you just need to admit that it’s obvious that a fetus becomes a person in the womb long before birth. Admit it. Otherwise you’re a murderous child killer. Come on. Do you have a conscience or are you a sociopath without the ability to feel guilt?
What is it Chad? Do you have a limit to abortion or are you a sociopathic monster?
Not buying into your see it my way or else attitude. Bye!
Seriously Kathy Tran said in her bill it was even after birth...then people go ahead and Pretty it up calling it Infanticide..it is MURDER
It's a murderous slaughter.
Only to narrow minded people like you.
Chad, even in your world it’s murder if the baby has already been born. You can read law can’t you? Or are you a monstrous sociopath that believes that kindergartens can be aborted?
Not anybody’s decision other than mine and my doctors.
This was done in China for years-forced abortion up until birth and everybody was horrified. Now it’s ok?
I think they justify it cuz women's rights.
Have you cleared this with @ChinaKiller1 ?
Women's rights? So if her one year old is pissing her off she can Kill her too?
No with the exception of the mothers life being in danger or a case of rape/incest that went shamefully unaddressed.
Other than that abortion should still be legal in the earlier stages of pregnancy.
That's actually pretty conservative for you
Unless mother's life us in jeopardy
Just to clarify if the child can survive outside the womb and the mothers life is in danger the child should be aborted instead of delivered?
Gelina let’s be clear. No mother who can have their baby and has carried it to that point in the pregnancy intentionally is giving up the chance for a child without extreme reasons. The obvious reason would be a caesarian would kill the mother and so would keeping the baby leaving no real option.
Koro thanks, unfortunately many women have aborted their children long past the point of viability and at least one doctor is in prison for it. I suppose it is possible that there could be a woman unable to undergo cesarean and so unable to undergo any surgery... and maybe that same person also can’t give birth naturally. Seems unlikely but it is possible that such a medical condition might exist. I’d want to know what conditions that might apply to.
At Korosensei... no rational mother would. But there’s plenty of irrational, irresponsible, crazy and damaged people.
Same way you don’t think a mother would kill their toddler after all the effort they’ve put in. And yet there’s the mentally damaged mothers that do.
I mean at that point you’re talking single digits. The number of people who get late term abortions is under 2% of all abortions and the are virtually all for medical reasons. This. Is not. An issue.
I think it is an issue to terminate 9 month old fetuses if there is no medical emergency, regardless of the number of times it happens.
Would you say we shouldn’t pass laws against murder because it is so rare ? Murder rate in the US is less than 0.01%.
It’s the same argument you are making.
Not to put too fine a point on it... if “only 1%” would do such a thing and there are on average 600,000 abortions in the US each year that is 6,000 babies killed every year who might live without the aid of their biological mother.
To put that in perspective there were 51 people killed in school shootings last year which has been called a public health crisis. In states where induced abortions have been legal there were 188 babies aborted in 2015.
In the US it is possible for a baby as young as 23 weeks to survive delivery. And in about 1 of ever 450 pregnancies the woman will not even know she is pregnant until after 20 weeks.
I really really hate the idea of late term abortion and I think they should be avoided as much as possible.
But I said yes because I believe people should be logically consistent with their policy positions. I am pro-choice because I don’t think the law should be able to compel one person to use their body for another person’s benefit no matter the circumstances. So brought to it’s logical conclusion I must support this.
What I think about the morality of such a choice is immaterial.
Conversely, I think pro-lifers should always be against any exceptions when their reasoning is that “life is sacred” or whatnot.
If you believe that, you have to take on every single unsavory situation that can arise with it. You have to be willing to sign off on, for example, forcing a young teenager who was raped by her father to carry the fetus to term.
If you decide to take people’s rights and their bodily autonomy away, you can’t suddenly get squeamish when it’s inconvenient.
Lastly, it’s absolutely baffling to me that any Libertarian can vote no here.
The government that you give the power to force women to give birth can one day use that power to force women to abort.
You have 9 months to decide this. There is no reason why anyone should be in this position. If the baby is sick it was probably discovered months ago at monthly/weekly visits. If mother is in danger of death (which is so rare like 2%) all doctors will do everything to save mother first. But to kill a baby after it’s born or anytime in 9th month does not seem...right. It’s 2019 folks not 1400.
After it’s born is beyond the scope of this discussion.
You can have whatever thought process you like, but if you are in favor of bodily autonomy you can’t half ass it.
I’m in favor of bodily autonomy. So you can not kill a baby in utero because they are persons with bodily autonomy.
And yes in all cases.
Well, here’s the thing. I across the board do not support infringing on someone’s bodily autonomy for another person’s benefit. Even their life.
The government should not be able to compel me to give blood or a kidney, and it should not compel women to carry a fetus against her will. The right of bodily autonomy goes to the person whose body is being used. Not who is using it.
But that said, I do respect the consistency of your position.
Taumpy, what if the fetus is viable? Then you don't have to abort, you could remove it so that you're not carrying it anymore. Win-win
Taumpy so would be ok with saying as soon as a baby can be delivered and live outside the womb so it is no longer living inside his mother that he can no longer be aborted? That way your definition of bodily autonomy can be maintained and the second person involved can also be given autonomy.
Yeah, if there’s another option than abortion, and the infant’s life can be saved obviously that’s better.
Only to save the mothers life and if there is no other way. Otherwise, it’s a no.
If an abortion would save her life, an emergency delivery would save both of their lives.
Not even remotely true. I had a terminally ill fetus who wouldn't survive outside the mother's body. Also, what happened in ireland... they refused to deliver the dead fetus while the mother was dying from infection. Your extremist rhetoric is not based in scientific fact.
If you have eclampsia before 34ish weeks, they give steroid shots to hopefully get the fetus lungs to develop quicker. Much of the time, they don't, and babies don't survive. But birth is the ONLY cure for eclampsia so...........
I should have said “could save both of their lives.” Nothing is 100%. But I do support delivery over abortion in all situations.
And refusing to deliver a dead fetus isn’t even on topic.
I mean, it's straight up murder at any point of the pregnancy, but you're an especially horrible shitty person if you abort a baby late in the pregnancy.
What if there’s a 100% chance they’ll both die during birth?
That's found out way earlier than 40 weeks.
Ich, that would call for an emergency early delivery and NICU stay for the baby. It would not call for an abortion, which often takes longer and is never medically necessary OR in the best health interest of the mother in ANY scenario.
Why do you care?
Because we're normal human beings with principals.
No, Normal people mind their own business. Why do you care that if a mother completely unrelated to you has a baby or not? How does it effect your life? Do you care this much about other “murders”?
It's not just the decision of "not having a baby." It's an actual, textbook murder. And yes, other murders are just as bad. But the one factor that makes abortion so insidiously evil is the fact that people like you don't even consider it to be murder, but a "basic woman's right."
I agree after the certain time period when the baby can feel pain it should be illegal to get a abortion. But I don't think we should necessarily make abortion illegal. I mean you are say that the woman should have this babies.
People shouldn't have rights until they reach voting age. I say parents should be able to terminate any child, any burdensome child, until the age of 18.
I thought that was allowed already. Mom always said” I brought you into this world I can take you out.”
It’s just one level above “I will turn this car around!”
You should read the book “Unwind”. Very interesting story about what your proposing. At the age of 13 parents can decide whether their kid is worthy of adulthood or will be scrapped for body parts. Not shitting on your idea, I just think it’s a good read.
I certainly hope that Unwind is written in satirical form as was A Modest Proposal!
New SOH Members! Once you comment on this poll, and then an order of operations poll, you’ll be officially initiated.
Trial by abortion!
Yes. Easy question. A better question would be, 'Do you believe that our government should tell you what you can or cannot do with your own body?' All the Republicans who say they believe in smaller, unobtrusive government should answer a resounding 'No!,' yet hypocrisy abounds.
Bruh, how can you justify an abortion at 40 weeks? The baby is fully developed at that point, could easily survive out of the womb, and is ready to be born. That's straight up murder and the only difference between a 40 week old pregnancy and a 40 week old baby is where the baby is. Just because she's the woman carrying the child doesn't mean she has the right to kill it whenever she wants. That's not how humanity works.
Humanity works however we want it to work. What other people do with what's in their bodies is no concern of mine. If someone kills a nearly born baby, it's no skin off my ass.
Less than 1.2% of terminations take place after 24 weeks. The data doesn't specify weeks after that point, so I can only guess it's a tiny fraction occurring in 30+ weeks. Always for medical issues in mom and baby. Seriously, what brand of delusional is IEatz living with where people are aborting healthy fetuses in the third trimester? They're not. That's a lie someone told you and you were too immature to fact check it.
Phalx, yes conservatives like small government. But we believe one of the few jobs the government has is to preserve life, and give rights to those that don't have a voice. It's not "you're body" when the fetus has its own dna.
Also, we understand late term abortions are very rare. That's not a good reason to allow it. Using new York as an example, it was very rare because it was illegal to late term abort unless the mothers life was at risk. Now it really doesn't matter the reason. I hope it still stays very rare, but it shouldn't be allowed.
Phalnx, so if I kill your already born baby, is that okay? No skin off your ass, so who cares right?
Not MINE specifically, but if you want to kill yours, knock yourself out.
uh, see that's called murder. at what point does murder become not okay in your eyes?
When it affects me.
Pha, so as long as you & yours are safe, screw everyone else spoken like a true self serving Leftist🤨‼️
Pha, You sound drunk as a skunk🥴I think you need to lay off making statements after too many toasts to old Jack Daniels❗️
There's a world of difference between a passive screw and an active one, Shippy 'ol boy...where were you when Pol Pot was committing genocide in Cambodia? How about the Rwandan genocide? The ethnic cleansing in Serbia? The Syrian Civil War? Lots of horrible things happen all the time that don't affect us...no use worrying about them when you have more than enough stuff that does affect you to deal with.
Attitudes like mine are what happens when you're committed to being consistent with your principles...there's no Virtue Signalling in phalnxville.
Pha, what principles🤔❓That psychobabble your spewing doesn’t resemble any principles I recognize🤨❗️Its the same Ol’Leftist droning while citing all the world crimes of humanity & blaming them on your opposition & your own country, while absolving all Leftists of any responsibility or culpability, which also includes the continuing murder of innocent babies, you sir have truly lost your sense of decency, perspective, & your way‼️
Phalnx, it's the difference between Pol Pot's murders being considered an abhorrent crime against humanity, and murdering millions of babies as a "basic woman's right"
All the condemnation in the world means nothing without actions to back it up. The world watched those atrocities happen because no one gave enough of a shit to risk their lives to stop it. It's easy to seem like a brave White Knight on abortion because you don't have to do anything other than passively advocate for more of our freedoms to be taken away.
Hey at least phalx is a consistent ass.
Phalnx, I would argue that our military who sacrificed their lives and died to end those kinds of atrocities would be pretty unhappy that they're being forgotten.
Oh god. Another abortion poll. 🙄
This is getting ridiculous.
Feels like it’s been decades
As if there haven’t been enough polls on the subject.
...Or polls about that abortion law in New York.
I’m so sick of it.
HB...embrace it. The sooner you embrace these polls, the less annoying they become. 😂
But @MrsCrayonWax , it’s like screaming into the void sometimes.
I know. It is but it deflated both fanatical sides making it much for enjoyable for us!
How about this, murder at ANY stage of human life is still murder from before you are born to when you’re an old man?
Murder is wrongful killing. Abortion is legal, and hence, not murder. Are you using the word incorrectly purely for shock value? Words mean something, you know.
What's legal isn't always right and what's right isn't always legal.
Is murder was legalized, would it be ok?
We're talking about the definition of a word, not whether abortion is wrong or not. If abortion is legal, it can't be called murder. Call it baby killing if you like, but even that is technically inaccurate.
And it should be legal to kill people you don’t like also after birth...What is America becoming?
A haven for your trolling
Are you trolling
How about just to clear this up, I am not trolling anyone
I’ve been here many years.
You should realize that all people’s lives matter
I do and you do too. You matter as an individual, as a human being. That’s why abortion is so wrong. It’s like telling you that you don’t have a right to live. Everyone’s life is special and unique is my belief
Even murderers on death row?
We can show them compassion. I’m against the death penalty
If you’re talking abortion for convenience through the last trimester, you’re a special kind of disturbed person to go through with that. I’m all about rape, incest and medical emergencies/health issues being reasons for abortion but telling me you didn’t want a viable baby and just decided at late stage that you were going to terminate is where I part company.
“I’m all about rape”
-MrsCrayonWax. February 3rd, 2019
We need more people to cut through the shit and read between the lines. #coffee ow2024
Hey if there was another message in there I missed let me know
That was it.
But to the original post, yes I agree.
You’ve got to see the disturbance here. People that are so up Trump’s ass that they can’t admit when he had overstepped and people so far up the ass of fearing they will be called a misogynist by the left that they can’t tell when they should step away. You’ve got to know when to fold em.
And someone explain this mental health exception the right is raising Cain about. You can’t consent to a medical procedure unless you’re mentally competent.
Huh, I had never heard that Kenny Rogers lyric in its entirety. That was prophetic
A lot of wisdom in that old bag of beard and skin.
It’s shocking how many people have no souls and think this procedure is no big deal.
That is the logic of the left. Makes no sense.
I sold my soul on SoH for one like 🙁
Not late, it really is blatant murder.
And those that say is isn’t are just lying to themselves.
Legal yes but restricted
Why is it is u r driving and kill a pregnant mother in an auto accident, u get charged with two counts of murder or manslaughter if that is the charge by the DA ? If the baby is a blob of cells , it cannot be a murder charge for the baby. If the baby is a human in the womb with full protection under the law, the abortion is murder.
This is indisputable factual evidence !!!!!
No longer in New York. Their new law did 3 things simultaneously, which intentionally compounds the evil intentions of the law.
1. Allows abortion up until birth to protect the life OR HEALTH of the mother. This is important because it can mean anything, including mental health or something as minimal as headaches. There really is no restriction, as long as the provider is willing to do it.
2. Allows non-doctors to perform abortions. This is important because it increases the likelihood of finding someone willing to perform an abortion for the flimsiest of reasons. It also decreases the safety for the women.
3. Takes away the status of personhood for the unborn. This takes away the fear of legal consequences for performing an abortion for no reason, and also takes away the legal consequences of violence against a pregnant woman that also harms the baby.
This is a truly evil law, and shame on the NY elected officials for applauding and cheering its passage.
Kelly your interpretation of this law is laughable. No one is signing off on a medical assistant aborting a nine month pregnancy for headaches. I understand you dont agree with the law but lets not go reefer madness on this.
No one is signing off on it? The NY legislature just signed off on it.
Yes, on a law where no one with slight headaches will get abortions at nine months.
There are no protections against that in the law. Opening it up to non-doctors being able to perform them only increases the likelihood. 33% of pregnancies in NY result in abortion, second only to DC at 38%.
What should be the punishment for mothers who get abortions?
Those numbers don't sound like they have an issue with "women's reproductive health" that required a loosening of the existing law.
Would you advocate for capital punishment for these mothers whose lifes are at risk or for the pregnancies that arent viable?
Of course not, that is ridiculous.
Nature has a way of terminating a majority of non-viable fetus on its own.
You're concentrating on a very small percentage of cases. You're making it seem like every abortion is done for a 'noble' cause.
The state of Florida records a reason for every abortion that occurs within its borders each year. In 2015, there were 71,740 abortions in Florida. This table lists each reason and the percentage of abortions that occurred because of it.
.001% The pregnancy resulted from an incestuous relationship
.065% The woman's life was endangered by the pregnancy
.085% The woman was raped
.288% The woman's physical health was threatened by the pregnancy
.294% The woman's psychological health was threatened by the pregnancy
.666% There was a serious fetal abnormality
6.268% The woman aborted for social or economic reasons
92.330% No reason (elective)
Less than 2% were for health reasons or rape/incest. Can't we concentrate on those, without making it easier for anyone?
Im referring to the late term abortion component which is miniscle but for importat reasons. Yet its fodder for activists who use that language for their oown purpose.
Im pragmatist about abortion, the debate about whether its a life or not doesnt mean as much to me as it does to others. I am concerned about women who are the most vulnerable, typically the poor, women of color or women who are in high-risk relationships. The same folks who want to eliminate abortion wont discuss social safety nets for these populations, and at worst blame them for their own situation.
You mean the women of color who were the whole reason Planned Parenthood was started, so they could wipe out black people in this country? Those same vulnerable black women?
Who is more vulnerable and worthy of protection than an unborn baby?
I dont think we’ll see each others sides
But hopefully what you will agree on is if the NY law is in violation it will be challenged and defeated in the courts.
We definitely won't.
Doctors r supposed to preserve life , not murder the baby when it is a viable living breathing human without the mother’s assistance.
Only if its to terminate a failed pregnancy
Isn’t that the purpose of abortion?
Of course not.
The premise that legalized abortion doesn’t change by term
Yes, when the life of the mother is at risk or then fetus is not viable. I had a friend whose sister carried a baby with only a brain stem to full term. She knew for the 3rd trimester that she was carrying a a baby that could not survive out of the womb. The baby did live 5 days outside the womb. But, it was her choice to do that. It should be her choice. It would be very difficult for a mother carrying a baby to term and going through labor and delivery, knowing at the end, the baby would die within hours or days. It was also very confusing for her other two small children. That choice should be between the mother, father, and doctor. It should not be made by me or anyone else.
If a woman just aborts her baby because she's using abortion as a form of birth control, or she just decides she doesn't want a child, she's not a mother.
Yeah, but woman just using it as another form of birth control is very uncommon. Yeah, there are going to be those cruel bastards here and there, but it is generally a very difficult choice.
Just one vile woman using it as a method of birth control is enough to end that law entirely.
And what about one woman dying because they can’t get the treatment they need?
Abortion ought to be illegal at ANY stage during a pregnancy and the penalty for carrying out such a heinous procedure ought to be PUBLIC stoning to DEATH for both the doctor and the patient. God’s Holy Word makes it crystal clear that He knew us BEFORE He even created us, ergo life begins BEFORE conception. If fact, each and every life was conceived in the mind of God at the beginning of time, as was every event, thought in your head, and the number of hairs on your body.
By aborting a fetus, you are MURDERING life that God created and you will be judged as a MURDERER on your Day of Judgement, upon which God will pick you up by the scruff of your filthy, unwashed neck and drop kick your butt into the ETERNAL LAKE OF FIRE, where you will be savagely tortured by Satan for eternity, and rightfully so. Just remember that the child you aborted will be frying along side you because you SELFISHLY withheld the sacrament of baptism from it, DOOMING it to eternal torture. Think before you act.
Getting rid of a fetus that is dead inside the mother is still an abortion.
It is called a D&C. The procedure may be the same, but it is not considered an abortion.
Amarantos, if God decides to punish a woman by killing her child in the womb, that is a separate matter altogether my dear. Under such a circumstance, removing that corpse from a woman’s body is not an abortion.
This poll deals with murdering LIVING babies. Let’s try to stay on topic!
Killing babies is bad and the solution is to kill the mother and doctor, making the stoners murderers. Who murders the stoners?
Please stop feeding a clear troll.
I am fully aware he is a troll but to some he speaks the truth and I’m just going to call out the inconsistency anyway.
What if we had a murderer or another abortion doctor stone them to death? Clearly it is still a horrible idea, but this way the number of murderers wouldn't increase.
is this thatguy2’s alt?
“penalty for carrying out such a heinous procedure ought to be PUBLIC stoning to DEATH for both the doctor and the patient. “
Shit maybe this is my alt, that sounds like something I would say
There is no need to stone the stoners because they haven’t committed any crime. They are carrying out their God-given duty to extinguish the life of someone who has committed grievous sins. There are plenty of sins that merit the death penalty, such as murder and homosexuality. All you have to do is crack that Bible and READ IT rather then having it sit on your shelf like some kind of trophy.
As for me being a “troll”,’ my response is YAWN. Hot Christians (as opposed to lukewarm Christians) often get called trolls for preaching the unaltered truth of God because the truth of God is unappealing to so many. You would prefer that I sweeten the word of God so it appeals to more people but that would be LYING. The only thing I can do is take pleasure in the fact that you will all one day face eternal torture for your disobedience (Psalm 58:10-11). Repent or perish. Amen.
Amen! I gotta admit I’m warming up to this idea of enteral torture
I always knew you were a masochist Coffee
Whatever hon. You won’t be saying that when you are experiencing the sensation of your entire body BURNING in flames for ETERNITY, with not a drop of water in sight to cool your tongue. Just try to imagine that for a second before you run your goofy mouth again.
And who are you to judge oh servant of God, our Lord?
“with not a drop of water”
But they’ll be coffee right?
“Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?” (1 Corinthians 6:2).
And before you run your goofy, ignorant, Bible-illiterate mouth about how I can possibly call myself a saint, just know that the Biblical definition of a saint is someone who obeys God and keeps His commandments (i.e. His Elect).
"For if you will forgive men their sins, your heavenly Father also will forgive you your offenses. But if you will not forgive men, neither will your Father forgive you your sins."
Please do not be concerned @AServantOfGod as I have forgiven you.
I don’t need your forgiveness clown. The only entity I seek forgiveness from is the LORD for He is the one who will judge me after I give up the ghost, not you. Your “forgiveness” is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.
SoG I love your profile pic
"Let all bitterness and anger and indignation and outcry and blasphemy be taken away from you, along with all malice. And be kind and merciful to one another, forgiving one another, just as God has forgiven you in Christ."
Coffee has already had the sensation of burning and the pharmacy solves that problem. Do you think a little eternal damnation is going to bring him down?
His profile picture is hot.
It only burns when I pee. It’s like concentrated evil leaving my body
Makem, you’re not allowed to use those parts of the Bible. Only the parts giving you the right to hate other people are valid.
Oh I see. My mistake. I'll make sure to burn all the pages of my Bible mentioning forgiveness and kindness.
The amount of quoting in this thread continues to make it clear that those who strictly follow every word of any religious scripture are massive nerds.
Quick question, how many of you in support of abortion were aborted yourself?
Or as they say: if you're supporting abortion, be glad your mother didn't 😉