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4JC June 4th, 2018 3:10pm

Breaking News! SCOTUS ruled (7-2) in favor, of Jack Phillips of Masterpiece Cakes, The case asked SCOTUS to balance religious rights of a baker against a couple’s right to equal treatment under the law. Similar disputes have popped up across the U.S.

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theNobamist Silicon Valley
06/04/18 11:53 pm

Yay! Another kick in the ass to lawsuit lawyers!

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Jazzy5 USA
06/04/18 12:08 pm

The baker, offer the couple names of other good bakeries that would be more than happy to bake them a cake. Interesting how they refused the offer.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 12:54 pm

In several of these cases, other companies came out of the woodwork to give them FREE services, but that wasn’t enough for them. They had to try to punish the business owners.

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Jazzy5 USA
06/04/18 1:27 pm

Targeted.
Hurting a small business, you attack them with an army of lawyers, just to force them to your demands..
This is not what my America is about but it happens quite often.

JudicialJedi321 This is How Liberty Dies
06/04/18 11:10 am

Certainly a victory for religious liberty; but more narrowly tailored than I would have liked. I suppose We couldn't expect much more from Anthony Kennedy. With any luck he'll retire sooner rather than later so these left wing bigots who wish to outlaw religion can be defeated once and for all.
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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 11:17 am

Hear, hear! I hope he does so before Baronelle’s case is before them!

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 11:18 am

And thanks for sharing my poll!

JudicialJedi321 This is How Liberty Dies
06/04/18 11:38 am

Lots of rumors about. He's hired his law clerks for next year, but the court has been turning away hot button issues which some think means the liberals aren't convinced Kennedy will be around to side with them.

Not to mention the narrow nature of this case makes me think maybe Kennedy wants this middle ground answer to be his way of signing off on his legacy.

Lord almighty I hope...
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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 11:44 am

I don’t guess there’s any chance we can hope he retires this month? The article I read said Baronelle’s case could be decided by the end of June.

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JudicialJedi321 This is How Liberty Dies
06/04/18 11:51 am

The odds of him actually retiring before the end of the term (July, give or take) is basically zilch.

He leaves, his vote is nullified. Any 5-4 decisions he was apart of become 4-4 which the court hates as it doesn't create a precedent.

He might announce his intent to retire. Though the last day of the term is the traditionally time for that, it's not unheard if for a retiring justice to give the president a little extra time to decide on his successor.

Still, I don't think it's likely he leaves before summer recess. (And if the announcement doesn't happen the last day if the term expect him to stay until summer 2019)
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JudicialJedi321 This is How Liberty Dies
06/04/18 11:52 am

That is assuming it is a willing retirement. This year we have three justices in their 80s any of which could "go" at any time. (Scalia was 79 when he passed)

I don't wish death on anyone, but I REALLY want a new vacancy for trump to fill.
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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 12:52 pm

I know what you mean! Lol

IH8NIGGERS Niggerville
06/04/18 10:49 am

Don’t like it? Don’t shop there!

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 10:51 am

Exactly! That’s how it should have been handled from the beginning!

Pickyoteeth
06/04/18 1:55 pm

Yeah, and in the south not too long ago people were saying the same thing about black people.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 3:29 pm

Pick, this is NOTHING like the civil rights movement. Do you realize that what you’ve said is offensive to many blacks? Check out this:

A coalition of African American civil rights leaders and advocates launched WeGotYourBackJack.com.  

They’re standing with Jack Phillips, the Christian Baker in a court battle with a gay couple. They say this isn't even close to the kind of discrimination shown against African Americans in the past & say that LGBT are demanding special rights based on their sexual behavior.

www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2017/october/wegotyourbackjack-african-americans-stand-with-christian-baker-in-gay-cake-case?cpid=:ID:-21923-:DT:-2017-10-23-17:03:33-:US:-JR1-:CN:-CP1-:PO:-GC1-:ME:-SU1-:SO:-FB1-:SP:-NW1-:PF:-TX1-


www.lifezette.com/faithzette/conservative-black-clergy-say-lgbt-activists/

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Pickyoteeth
06/04/18 3:34 pm

Some gay people support the baker too, that's not going to change my mind.

"you can't buy this cake because you're gay." = "you can't buy this food because you're black."

Imho

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 5:12 pm

He didn’t say, “You can’t buy this cake because you’re gay.” He offered to sell them ANY cake in his shop. He just cannot CREATE a cake with a message that is against his beliefs. For example, he also doesn’t create cakes with anti-gay messages on them, or cakes for Halloween events, or Nazis, or with racist messages. It’s ALL about the message of the cake.

I found it very interesting when watching a special show about the royal wedding, when they reiterated what Jack Phillips has been saying all along—that specialty wedding cakes are pieces of art that tell a story about the couple and their relationship. Jack can’t tell a story about a couple that he feels should NOT be getting married. They need to go to a baker that will appreciate their story, their wedding, and can celebrate it with them.

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Pickyoteeth
06/04/18 5:14 pm

What was the message? My sources show it was a normal cake he would have made for any other wedding

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 5:19 pm

No. Read these two articles to understand more:

The nearly 500 creative professionals similarly assert, “Artistic speech, whether expressed through painting a picture, taking a photograph, or designing a cake, is constitutionally protected and should be treated as such. The expression should neither be silenced nor coerced. Though the concern is currently most pressing in the same-sex wedding context, it is not so limited. Creative professionals of all stripes stand to suffer from undue compulsion, depending on how this Court rules here.”

Read that brief here:

adflegal.blob.core.windows.net/web-content-dev/docs/default-source/documents/case-documents/craig-v.-masterpiece-cakeshop-inc/masterpiece-cakeshop-v-craig---amicus-brief---479-creative-professionals.pdf?sfvrsn=10

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 5:19 pm

2) Here is a brief that is not taking EITHER side in this case, but in which respected cake artists explain the intricate artistry involved in designing custom cakes. It even has pics of different styles of wedding cakes & is an easy read. It even quotes a woman who does gay wedding cakes and has a transgender son and she says that same-sex wedding cakes can be ESPECIALLY artistic.

adflegal.blob.core.windows.net/web-content-dev/docs/default-source/documents/case-documents/craig-v.-masterpiece-cakeshop-inc/masterpiece-cakeshop-v-craig---amicus-brief---11-cake-artists-(in-support-of-neither-party).pdf?sfvrsn=6

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IH8NIGGERS Niggerville
06/04/18 6:31 pm

I’m gay. Do I think these bakers are being discriminatory? Absolutely. Do I have to buy from them? Absolutely not. They’re a private business. It’s their right to not serve me and it’s my right to not patron them. I wouldn’t trust them with my cake anyway. If these bakers don’t want to sell to me that’s fine; I think they’re ignorant and I would never support their business.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 7:01 pm

That’s what I have wondered, NBJR. Why would any gay person want someone that doesn’t believe in their union to be involved in their wedding?!

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Pickyoteeth
06/04/18 7:04 pm

I wouldn't want it either, but I also don't want discrimination to be legal. I don't think 'especially artistic' is a fair reason to not bake a cake for someone.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 7:19 pm

The CO commission was actually discriminating against Jack Phillips. That’s the only way to understand this when you realize that they allowed other bakers to turn down orders for anti-gay cakes, with no repercussions. It’s religious discrimination. That’s exactly what the ruling says.

“The justices' limited ruling turned on what the court described as anti-religious bias on the Colorado Civil Rights Commission when it ruled against baker Jack Phillips.

When the justices heard arguments in December, Kennedy was plainly bothered by comments by a commission member.
The commissioner seemed "neither tolerant nor respectful of Mr. Phillips' religious beliefs," Kennedy said then.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 7:19 pm

2) That same sentiment suffused his opinion on Monday.

"The commission's hostility was inconsistent with the First Amendment's guarantee that our laws be applied in a manner that is neutral toward religion," he wrote.

When you have even two liberal justices that agree, you KNOW there was something wrong here!

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Pickyoteeth
06/04/18 7:34 pm

There was nothing pro-gay about the cake! If it was anti-gay or pro-gay I would understand. It was a normal cake.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 7:39 pm

No, it’s not a normal cake. Did you miss the part about the special I watched on the royal wedding, where they made it clear that cakes like this tell a story about the couple? And the links I gave that showed others, even gay people, saying the same thing? Or was that in another thread?

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 7:41 pm

Please read the two links I did give you in this thread—especially the one about gay wedding cakes and how artistic they are, and how specialized.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 7:43 pm

For instance, when you ask that the filling be rainbow colored, as this couple did, it is definitely not just any cake. It’s specifically a gay wedding cake, with a message.

Pickyoteeth
06/04/18 7:53 pm

If that's the case, then I think he shouldn't have to bake that particular cake; however, Phillips admitted to turning away other gay couples before this. If they just wanted a cake that had nothing to do with homosexuality, then he should have to make it.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 8:07 pm

He DOES make cakes for gay people. Just not cakes for their weddings.

Let me ask you this. It’s the same question BertGoldberg just asked:

Should gay atheist bakers be allowed to refuse to bake a Christian cake for a Christian couple?

Should they be allowed to refuse to bake an anti-gay cake for Westboro Baptist Church?

Bruce Springsteen was allowed to cancel concerts in a state that was against transgender bathrooms. Designers were allowed to turn down gowns for Melania. Journalists are not forced to write articles that support DJT. Should each of these have been forced to work for someone else, designing, creating, a piece of work that goes against their deepest beliefs?

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Pickyoteeth
06/04/18 8:12 pm

I just told you nobody should be forced to bake a cake that is pro gay or anti gay. If it is a normal cake he would bake for a straight wedding, then he should have to bake the same cake for a gay wedding. Same thing if it had been an atheist baker. He doesn't have to be forced to put a cross on the cake, but he still has to make a normal cake he would design for any other couple.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 8:12 pm

Should a Jew be forced to make something that is pro-Nazi? Should a black person be forced to make something for the KKK?

Freedom to not have to promote a message that goes against your deepest held beliefs benefits EVERYONE!

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Pickyoteeth
06/04/18 8:12 pm

You must not be reading/understanding my comments.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 8:15 pm

And you still haven’t read the articles that talk about gay wedding cakes, have you?

If you’re not willing to read those, I’m done.

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Pickyoteeth
06/04/18 8:19 pm

It's over 100 pages. I have an exam and patients tomorrow. I skimmed and read some. Much more than I have typed here in the comments and that you have apparently missed/failed to read. Scroll up, you are missing the point of what I saying. I never said he should be forced to make a rainbow icing cake.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 8:26 pm

You’re misunderstand what I’m saying, though. As I said, the special program about the wedding of the royal couple had the cake artist talking about the fact that wedding cakes done by artists like this are NOT just something you would buy off the shelf. Each cake is UNIQUE, based on the individual couple & their story, & the cake incorporates their story. It tells a message-the story of their love, with things that are unique with symbolism about the couple.

That’s EXACTLY what Jack Phillips has been saying all along. We’re talking about a cake that takes dozens of hours to create, & the artist thinks about that couple & their love while s/he is creating it, putting special touches on it that show that particular couples’ love for each other. This would make a wedding cake for a gay couple exclusively a gay cake, whether it had rainbow filling or not.

That article talks about this as well, & that gay wedding cakes are often more artistic, flamboyant, & decidedly gay in design.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 8:30 pm

In that second article, read starting on page 16. There are even pics of gay wedding cakes.

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Pickyoteeth
06/04/18 8:31 pm

Yes, I agree that he shouldn't have to make a 'gay cake.' No, I don't agree that all gay people want 'gay cakes.'

I'm sure there are gay people who wouldn't want a design that had anything to do with their sexuality. He would still say no to them and that's wrong in my eyes.

Pickyoteeth
06/04/18 8:34 pm

Those cakes are so standard/generic... Wow. There's nothing gay at all about them... If that was the design and he said no, I'm sorry, that's discrimination.

Pickyoteeth
06/04/18 8:36 pm

I would agree with you that the cake with the rainbow batter shouldn't have to be baked, but the others are normal.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 8:37 pm

Did you not go any farther than page 16? I’ve NEVER seen wedding cakes that look like those!

Please read what the mom with the transgendered child said.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 8:38 pm

You were looking at some of the other cakes Jack has done, not the gay cakes. The section about gay cakes starts under those pics, where it says 3. Gay cakes and the pics for those are on page 17 and forward.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 8:40 pm

The next page shows the cake that this gay couple had at their wedding, with the rainbow batter, etc. Do I have to copy and paste the section to you, or are you able to find it?

After that page, there is another page that shows how gay wedding cakes are a new more flamboyant genre that look NOTHING like traditional wedding cakes.

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Pickyoteeth
06/04/18 8:49 pm

Okay, I read it. I don't think he should be forced to bake those cakes. If I can admit that, can you admit that if a gay couple had asked for a creative design that resembled something like what was in page 16, he should be forced to bake it? Excluding some other reason besides the couple being gay.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/05/18 6:45 am

I’m glad you can at least go that far. But this is a complicated issue with more than 1 argument.

Some would say it’s the type of cake—a specialty wedding cake & the message of that cake. Others would say that it’s the message of the cake—the sanctioning of a gay wedding, no matter what the cake looks like. Others would say it’s the EVENT that is the problem—having to go there to deliver the cake. Others would say that if they go to 1 gay wedding, those that are against gay weddings would boycott, especially in areas of high percentages of religious people of any & all faiths—& that by doing 1 gay wedding, they would be cutting their own throats.

Others, like Libertarians, would say that to force ANYONE to labor against their will is slavery. Others see this as a free speech issue—even if you aren’t a Christian or have religious beliefs against it—(like Muslims would, as well—but no gay people are targeting them), you shouldn’t be compelled to voice a message you disagree with.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/05/18 6:49 am

I agree with ALL those stances and reasons. Just as I would think it would be cruel to ask a gay person to promote an anti-gay message, or a black to promote a KKK message, or a Jew to promote a Nazi message, I think it’s cruel to force a person of religion to go against their deepest held beliefs.

We didn’t require it of Bruce Springsteen, or gown designers, or journalists. We don’t prohibit artists from making art that goes against religious beliefs—because they have the right to their OWN beliefs—like statues of Jesus in pee!

One thing I can’t understand—gays have fought SO hard for their rights to believe and live as they want—why are they so dead set against others having those same rights to believe and live as they want? Looks like they would be the first ones to understand what that’s like, doesn’t it? Instead, they’re using this to punish those they feel are against their lifestyle.

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DanielWebb
06/04/18 10:06 am

A win for freedom of choice! Yay!

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SHOWofFIST Flint, MI
06/04/18 9:27 am

It's a business decision and they are not obligated to do business with anyone. Good ruling I guess in the eyes of the law. Now it is up to the consumers to stage a boycott and do everything possible to shine a light on his hate filled ways and put him out of business for good. What a gift for the competition to be able to exploit and take advantage of his poor business decision.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 9:38 am

It wasn’t he that showed hatred. He offered to sell them anything in his shop. He just can’t make pieces of art that have a message that is against his deepest beliefs. For example, he also has refused to make cakes for other events, such as Halloween and anti-gay events.

In the meantime, there were bakers that were allowed to turn down anti-gay cake requests, and the courts ruled in THEIR favor. See the hypocrisy?

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 9:38 am

2) It was the CO commission that was showing hatred. Here’s what I read in one article:

“The justices' limited ruling turned on what the court described as anti-religious bias on the Colorado Civil Rights Commission when it ruled against baker Jack Phillips.

When the justices heard arguments in December, Kennedy was plainly bothered by comments by a commission member.
The commissioner seemed "neither tolerant nor respectful of Mr. Phillips' religious beliefs," Kennedy said then.

That same sentiment suffused his opinion on Monday. “The commission's hostility was inconsistent with the First Amendment's guarantee that our laws be applied in a manner that is neutral toward religion," he wrote.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 9:39 am

3) Liberal justices Stephen Breyer and Elena Kagan joined the conservative justices in the outcome. Kagan wrote separately to emphasize the limited ruling.
Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Sonia Sotomayor dissented.

"Government hostility toward people of faith has no place in our society, yet the state of Colorado was openly antagonistic toward Jack's religious beliefs about marriage. The court was right to condemn that," said Kristen Waggoner, the Alliance Defending Freedom senior counsel who argued Phillips' case.

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Robert97206 Portland Oregon
06/04/18 8:15 am

Good ruling!

This was a nail-biting case for me I can't wait to read the transcript.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 8:41 am

I agree! I’ve been REALLY praying about this! I’m hoping this will set the precedent for all the OTHER cases that have been working their way through courts for the last several years!

Thanks for upvoting!

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 8:11 am

💠 4JC asked:
06/04/2018
Breaking News! SCOTUS ruled (7-2) in favor, of Jack Phillips of Masterpiece Cakes, The case asked SCOTUS to balance religious rights of a baker against a couple’s right to equal treatment under the law. Similar disputes have popped up across the U.S.

Yay!
Boo!

www.foxnews.com/us/2018/06/04/supreme-court-decides-colorado-gay-wedding-cake-case-timeline-events.html

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/04/18 8:13 am

“The laws and the Constitution can, and in some instances must, protect gay persons and gay couples in the exercise of their civil rights, but religious and philosophical objections to gay marriage are protected views and in some instances protected forms of expression," the Court said in its decision. "While it is unexceptional that Colorado law can protect gay persons in acquiring products and services on the same terms and conditions as are offered to other members of the public, the law must be applied in a manner that is neutral toward religion."

Justice Anthony Kennedy said when the Colorado Civil Rights Commission made its decision "it did not do so with the religious neutrality that the Constitution requires." The opinion says the Commission "violated the Free Exercise Clause, and its order must be set aside."

In its decision, the Supreme Court did not decide whether a business has the right to refuse to serve gay and lesbian people outright.

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