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hfhgsrjjdf May 27th, 2018 11:09pm

Christians: Genesis 1 is metaphorical literature, and the 7 days of Creation could be great periods of time. In the end, we really don't know how the Earth could've been created. God may or may not have used evolution. We really will never know.

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kspells TheOtherOtherside
05/28/18 3:48 pm

In the beginning god created the heavens and earth. That in no way says how long that took. Nor does it say how long it took for earth to become a viable working material to continue creating. The concept of time is introduce after creating sound. Tracking time came after light. But only by separating light and dark. Not hours.

Domino3 Abolish the ATF
05/28/18 2:01 pm

Yup agree. I️ take I️t as metaphorical, others don’t, such as my best friend. I️ don’t think I️t makes a difference

outlaw393 Trump 4 more years
05/28/18 11:02 am

God created evolution.

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hfhgsrjjdf
05/28/18 11:58 am

Where in the Bible does it say that?

outlaw393 Trump 4 more years
05/31/18 11:54 am

Genesis 1:1 - God created the heavens and the earth.

Obviously he created everything in the universe, including evolution.

hfhgsrjjdf
06/01/18 5:07 pm

Interesting...so I guess birds evolved into dinosaurs instead of vice versa?

outlaw393 Trump 4 more years
06/02/18 11:57 am

God recreated the world every time there was an extinction event. Like wiping the chess board.

hfhgsrjjdf
06/04/18 5:52 pm

If there was an extinction event, then that means death and suffering existed before Adam and Eve's in. But the Bible is clear that death and suffering came after that.

outlaw393 Trump 4 more years
06/09/18 11:04 am

Adam and Eve never happened. It's just one of thousands of creation myths.

outlaw393 Trump 4 more years
06/11/18 12:16 pm

Just because it's in the Bible doesn't mean you should believe it or that it can be proven.

Think Lovin Life
05/28/18 10:38 am

Okie ... who knows what I was thinking? Not me.

cowboy SCOTUS 2020
05/28/18 6:54 am

Agree. Evolution is just a conspiracy theory. Like every other theory. We don’t know shit.

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hfhgsrjjdf
05/28/18 10:46 am

But God does, and He told us about Creation in His word.

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
05/28/18 6:28 am

Saying we will never know isn't true. We can find out when we get to heaven.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/28/18 10:25 am

That was my first thought, as well! Lol

hfhgsrjjdf
05/28/18 10:42 am

I think these people meant never knowing while on Earth.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/28/18 10:54 am

Oh, ok! Well, of course, I disagree with that, as well.

..

Wonderess Louisiana
05/28/18 12:53 am

I think we are getting into a false dilemma down below. Just because one does not take the creation narratives literally does not mean that the Bible is uninspired. God certainly created everything. How and in what amount of time is a scientific question. Faith and the Bible enlightens the soul with higher truths such as the purpose of man and the history of salvation. To try to find scientific meanings within the Bible is not its primary purpose.

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BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
05/27/18 10:23 pm

I respectfully disagree

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hfhgsrjjdf
05/28/18 12:08 am

I agree with you.

jlong105 Indiana
05/27/18 9:29 pm

What harm does it do me if I am a Christian and believe wrongly that Genesis is or is not metaphorical?

hfhgsrjjdf
05/28/18 12:09 am

This is what I wrote to someone down below.

Belief in evolution weakens the Christian faith. Once we allow that seed (it's science!) to be planted into our hearts, it weakens the Christian's ability to defend the rest of their faith. I could go deeper. Belief in evolution completely negates the need for God's redemption of man. It defeats Christ's purpose to die for us. That's why it is so important, and that's why it hurt me to see people at my church spouting off this nonsense.

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
05/27/18 7:56 pm

That's Pure organic fertilizer of taurine origin. Utter nonsense, and incredibly dangerous and destructive thinking. Treating clear, straightforward historical narrative as metaphorical or allegorical is faithless and dishonest, and fails the test of harmonizing with the straightforward witness of the rest of the Bible to the accuracy of ALL of the Bible. Those who teach this should be considered false teachers, and they should be avoided and their teachings ignored. ✟✡

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hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 8:08 pm

I wish you could tell that to some of my constituents at my church. I couldn't stand what I was hearing from some people this morning.

political Georgia
05/27/18 8:18 pm

Thank you, Tom!

lcamino Florida
05/27/18 9:29 pm

DSH, that has happened to me before listening to a radio preacher. Whatever he said, I knew it wasn’t right, and turned it off. On the other hand, I have heard so many messages that spoke directly to me.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/28/18 10:27 am

DSH, what denomination is that? I would recommend that you begin looking for a new church home!

hfhgsrjjdf
05/28/18 10:40 am

@ lcamino My church is technically Assemblies of God, but we are more like a Calvary Chapel. I don't really know what my actual pastor believes, but this was coming from the Young Adults pastor and others in that group.

I would leave, but I don't know if I'm quite ready because I really like the main pastor. Maybe as soon as he retires, I'll leave.

hfhgsrjjdf
05/28/18 10:41 am

Oh sorry I meant @4JC

I got the comments mixed up lol.

But yeah @lcamino I'm glad I'm not the only one!

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/28/18 10:57 am

Is the pastor aware that the youth pastor has said this? If not, it’s something he needs to know, and you need to find out if the pastor believes it as well.

But I would talk to the youth pastor first and tell him you disagree with him, and ask him to go to the pastor with you to talk to him about it. This is the Biblical way to go about things like this, instead of talking about the youth pastor behind his back. If he refuses to go with you to the pastor and insists that what he said is correct, THEN, according to the Bible, you can seek out the counsel of the pastor.

...

hfhgsrjjdf
05/28/18 11:57 am

Oh, I'm not trying to talk behind anyone's back. If it seems like I am, I apologize.

I made this poll not because of anybody specific, but I'm trying to find out how people could hold this point of view when the Bible clearly says otherwise.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/28/18 12:02 pm

No, no, no! That’s not what I meant at all! I just meant if you decide to tell your pastor about what the young adult pastor said, it’s best to talk to the young adult pastor FIRST.

I’ve seen LOTS of churches torn up over someone talking about others, complaining that they’ve done something wrong, before they even go to the person that they feel is in the wrong. The New Testament, in a section on church discipline, plainly lays out that we’re supposed to go to the person that has wronged us or that is teaching false doctrine, BEFORE we talk to anyone else about. We’re to give them a chance to make it right before involving other people.

I see no problem at all with your talking about this here, as we’re not members of your church, so it can’t hurt those that are members of the church or tear the church up.

..

hfhgsrjjdf
05/28/18 12:16 pm

Oh ok. :)
I definitely agree with you. Go to the person first. If I decide to take action, I will do that. I think that model is found in Matthew.

ronderman North Carolina
05/27/18 6:37 pm

The two important words are "God created". After that, nothing matters to me.

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Think Lovin Life
05/27/18 7:15 pm

Agree. After that all else is simply speculation.

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
05/27/18 8:07 pm

There's no need to speculate. The Bible, clear, straightforward historical narrative need not be denied as "scientifically impossible" or misinterpreted as fable, allegory, or fairy tale. It simply means precisely what it says. The Genesis 1 creation account is the testimony of the only eyewitness to creation, the Creator Himself. Nothing could be simpler or more foundational to all else in the Bible. If we deny it, we can deny ANY Bible passage.

ronderman North Carolina
05/28/18 3:13 am

And I’m fine with that Tom. I’m just saying that if the 7 day creation is a stumbling block for someone, it shouldn’t keep them from accepting the gift of salvation. If you interpret the scriptures as a literal 7 day creation and I interpret the scriptures as 7 seasons that may have occurred over a long period of time, neither belief changes Christ’s sacrifice.

My belief system isn’t built on the OT at all (though I believe in it), my belief system is built on Christ.

Think Lovin Life
05/28/18 6:31 am

Ronder ... you nailed it! I agree completely. The notion that Genesis, which was written thousands of years after the creation, is to be taken literally in the duration forces brittleness that is not required and not provable.

The question of precisely how long doesn’t affect our salvation, or God’s power in any way. Rather than fight over this kind of ancillary notion, we should simply tuck the question away, and ask Him when we see Him!

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
05/28/18 8:07 am

Ron - Christology BEGINS in Genesis 1-4. Jesus (the Word) was active in Creation, and was mentioned in God's curse on the serpent (He shall crush your head and you shall bruise His heel). So yes, your Christianity is derived from the Old Testament. All of Jesus' teachings referred back to the Laws of the Torah, and He was a wll-schooled Rabbi. His disciples were actually his rabbinic talmidim (students).

ronderman North Carolina
05/28/18 9:18 am

Not denying any of that Tom. In fact, you could even say that we should believe it because Christ believed it. I personally have no problem with it. I’m just saying that if the OT was removed, it wouldn’t change my belief.

Let’s put it this way. The first generation of gentiles preached to by Paul did not see the OT scriptures as a prerequisite for belief.

I believe there is a generation of people who can’t get behind the belief of a seven day creation, but can get behind believing and following Jesus. What right do we have in damning them to Hell because they do not believe in a literal 7 days?

Jesus said believe in Me. He didn’t not say believe in me....and 7 day creation....and the literal account of Genesis.

I’m not saying you are wrong. I’m just saying that I don’t have to agree with you in order to be a Christ follower.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/28/18 10:32 am

I agree with both Tom AND Ron on this one! Lol

What Tom is referring to has been referenced by W.A. Criswell as The Scarlet Thread Through the Bible.

But I also agree that the ONLY thing we have to do to become Christians is believe that Jesus died on the Cross to save us from our sins and rose from the dead to give us eternal life with Him.

But once a person has accepted Christ, I believe that if they truly study the ENTIRE Bible, the Holy Spirit will show them the truth of Jesus throughout the Old Testament, INCLUDING his part in Creation.

...

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/28/18 10:33 am

💠 DSH asked:
05/27/2018
Christians: Genesis 1 is metaphorical literature, and the 7 days of Creation could be great periods of time. In the end, we really don't know how the Earth could've been created. God may or may not have used evolution. We really will never know.

...

lcamino Florida
05/27/18 5:58 pm

We can know if we regard the Bible as the word of God, and not a work of fiction.

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TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
05/27/18 8:09 pm

AMEN AMEN AMEN! 👍

political Georgia
05/27/18 4:17 pm

Utterly disagree! There are metaphors within Scripture, but Genesis is literal.

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hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 4:46 pm

Agree.

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 4:15 pm

I agree. I believe the Earth is billions of years old and I believe in evolution. But, we don't have all the answers yet and may never quite figure them all out. At least we are headed in the right direction.

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hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 4:46 pm

That contradicts the Bible though. All the answers about the beginnings of this planet can be found in Genesis.

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 4:51 pm

Yes, but I believe it is metaphorical.

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 4:51 pm

So, I disagree with you. I believe what science tells us.

hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 4:59 pm

So you choose to put science over the Bible?

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 5:05 pm

No, I agree with science because that is what makes sense intellectually. I choose to believe the Bible is metaphors. I choose to understand that when written, humans did not understand science as we do now and therefore the Bible was written as best for them to understand. I choose God and know that he allows us to learn about and understand science so that we may truly marvel at what He created.

hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 5:10 pm

You say that man didn't understand science, but what do you say to 2 Timothy 3:16?

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness..."

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 5:15 pm

You can quote any scripture you want. It doesn't change the fact that this Earth is billions of years old and science has proof of that. So, if you choose to take the Bible literally, you'll just be ignorant of the world. I choose to make the Bible and science coexist. It's what makes sense to me. I won't stop you from believing differently.

hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 5:20 pm

I would like to see your proof. How do you explain the fall of man after years of violent evolution? How do you explain the formation of the Earth, when Genesis clearly states that the sun, moon, and stars were created after?

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 5:30 pm

Close the Bible for awhile and read some science. I mean, really research. Delve into it with new eyes, eyes that are not focused on scripture. The proof is there is you are willing to read it. If not, that's ok with me if you continue believing as you do. I just don't.

GlockMan1 Alabama
05/27/18 6:18 pm

When God CREATED Adam and Eve, He did not create them as babies and they grew into adults. God created them fully matured and ready to have children of their own. God did the same thing with our planet. Yes....it certainly does appear to be billions of years old because God created it that way. Fully functional and ready to live on by two fully functional humans. There are people who can make antique furniture so well that only the best experts know that it is not a true antique. Same way with Christians. Only a few of us really know this planet is not billions of years old.

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 6:18 pm

Again, feel free to believe that if you'd like.

political Georgia
05/27/18 7:11 pm

DSH, as a Christian, I will never tell you to close your Bible. In fact, the world would be better if we all read it more.

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 7:13 pm

Whatever. You know I didn't mean to close it forever and to not read/study it. Don't be dramatic.

political Georgia
05/27/18 7:16 pm

I don’t know what you mean. It certainly sounded like you want us to value “X” over God’s word. You seem to find Biblical teachings offensive. Why else would you want someone to put down the Bible?

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 7:19 pm

Read again. I said "for awhile". I don't find the Bible offensive at all. I'm also not a Bible fanatic like I see you to be. That's scary to me. I have a good balance. But, you are proving my point from the other poll. So, at least thanks for that.

political Georgia
05/27/18 7:21 pm

What is a Bible fanatic? What do you mean by having balance? Are you implying that too much of God’s teachings is bad?

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 7:28 pm

I'm saying that you don't think for yourself. That is scary. I can read the Bible and understand God's teachings and at the same time understand the world around me and how the Word can be understood in the context of our world as we learn more about science. Balance. There is never too much of the word of God, but I do believe that it is necessary to understand it in the context of our world. But, I think you are allowed to have your own thoughts and feelings on the subject. Obviously, you don't think I should feel the way I do about it, which is why I said your only goal on these polls is have people agree with you. You proved that here.

hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 7:30 pm

Kay, why are you putting the arrogant claims of sinful man over God's precious word?

I agree political, it's important to delve into the Word because then distractions can overcome us. I have committed myself to reading the entire Bible this year (something I've never done before). Right now, I'm in the book of Job.

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 7:31 pm

You have always been one of the people on SOH that I have had the least respect for. It's not because what you believe, but rather because of the way you treat other Christians that don't believe the same as you. You are condescending and have no tolerance for difference of thought of it doesn't meld with your version.

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 7:32 pm

That was to political. I don't know you well enough to say that.

political Georgia
05/27/18 7:33 pm

I believe God’s word. If that is considered “not thinking for myself”, so be it. If I passionately defend scripture and called closed minded, so be it. I am all for learning about the world around us, but it should be to glorify God. I don’t have anything against anyone here, and I’m not here to show anyone up. Yet again, I am called to spread God’s word, and frankly, I think I have been fairly respectful throughout a variety of conversations.

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 7:35 pm

Although, from the sound of it, you too are also condescending to others who don't believe the same as you do. You post a poll and then proceed to put down me because I see it differently. I allow you the beliefs. Others should allow me mine. None of us will truly know until we meet God in heaven.

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 7:37 pm

Spreading God's Word while being condescending and a know-it-all, probably isn't what He had in mind.

hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 7:40 pm

Kay, I am not trying to force you to believe anything. I am simply trying to understand the logic behind this argument of "we don't know." I will still believe what I believe, and you have the freedom to do that too. I just want to see what people have to back up their argument. I don't appreciate you calling political a "Bible fanatic." The point of this poll is to challenge each other. I'm trying to find the root for this quote.

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 7:42 pm

I don't care if you don't like what I called political. Political has been disrespectful and condescending to me for years now.

political Georgia
05/27/18 7:43 pm

Kay, I asked for interpretation of scripture several times. It’s not like I was not willing to have a discussion. Of course, this doesn’t mean I would necessarily agree with you because I have studied the topic of Hell’s existence to a certain degree. Nevertheless, my intentions were never to convey that I am a know it all. It appears that you thought that my poll was targeted to you, but it wasn’t. It was inspired by a SOH poll where I noticed the results were odd.

hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 7:44 pm

Well, you're calling us close-minded, but you seem (I don't know for sure), but you seem close-minded regarding the Bible. Just my observation.

hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 7:45 pm

That was for Kay.

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 7:49 pm

No, I never once thought you targeted the poll to me. I've just gotten tired of the Christians on SOH who are condescending, rude, and disrespectful to those who don't believe as they do. I've often said that I believe as I do, but none of us really knew God's truths. But, most of the time I don't get that same respect back. Instead I'm told that I'm a fake Christian or not a real Christian. And, political has been guilty of this several times in the past.

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 7:51 pm

I'm not close-minded at all. In fact, the opposite is true because I knew the Bible can be interpreted differently. You two are the ones saying there is a hard line on it and others are wrong.

hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 7:56 pm

Well, let's go back to that then. What biblical grounds do you have to interpret it differently? May I remind that science can be wrong, and/or also interpreted differently.

political Georgia
05/27/18 7:59 pm

Kay, truthfully, I can’t remember what I said to you in the past. I do know that I was quite prideful in my high school years. I have humbled myself more in recent times, and I pray that my humility is greater. I apologize for any sinful behavior in the past, and I hope that there will be a passion to dive into scripture in the future.

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 8:02 pm

What you do understand is that not everyone believes that the Bible be taken literally word for word. It is sometimes metaphors, stories, etc. Scientific proof exists in the real world. So where science has proven real, I choose to believe that the Bible is metaphorical, or at least written so that the people of that time could understand it.

political Georgia
05/27/18 8:04 pm

What is Genesis symbolizing then?

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 8:06 pm

Even now, political, you are arrogant as you say you hope there "will be passion to dive into scripture in the future." Who are you to assume that because I don't believe as you do that I haven't read scripture?

hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 8:06 pm

So in that case, science says that dead people can't come back to life. Therefore, Jesus never rose from the grave. See how far I can take that?

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 8:08 pm

I don't have a need to continue to defend myself here. Rather than spreading the Word of God to share God's love, you two have put a bad taste in my mouth for this discussion and for this topic. Again, probably not what He wants from you.

hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 8:14 pm

But you see Kay, this is what I'm trying to get at. Belief in evolution weakens the Christian faith. Once we allow that seed (it's science!) to be planted into our hearts, it weakens the Christian's ability to defend the rest of their faith. I could go deeper. Belief in evolution completely negates the need for God's redemption of man. It defeats Christ's purpose to die for us. That's why it is so important, and that's why it hurt me to see people at my church spouting off this nonsense. Now, no where in this did I say you're not a Christian, so please so take any of this out of context. Only God can judge that for each and every one of us.

political Georgia
05/27/18 8:15 pm

I don’t think it is arrogance to hope that there is a passion to dive into God’s words all. I don’t believe you had any intention on having a Biblical discussion tonight. Am I wrong?

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 8:21 pm

Belief in evolution doesn't weaken my faith one iota. It's wrong to assume it does. And with that, I don't care to have any further discussion with either of you. Goodnight.

political Georgia
05/27/18 8:26 pm

DSH, as you know, Scripture does not tell us to make the gospel more appealing. Sometimes people will have a bad taste in their mouth once God’s word has been spoken of, but that doesn’t mean that we are to quit speaking about the truth. Very glad that you were able to keep the conversation focused on scripture.

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 8:40 pm

That's the arrogance I was referring to. Don't try to apologize in one post and then continue to be that way in the next. If you were truly sorry for your sins, you wouldn't continue acting the same. You don't know the truth for sure just like I don't. We are both speculating based on what we have read. The bad taste isn't because you talk of scripture, it's how you talk to me about your beliefs. You don't come across as a loving servant of God, but rather a know-it-all who is not accepting of others. Your dig at the end, while disguised as a comment to DSH, was an obvious attempt to put me down.

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 8:41 pm

And, with that, I'm truly done ever having a conversation with you. Feel free to continue on this thread, but I'll neither be reading nor responding again.

political Georgia
05/27/18 8:44 pm

I’m not accepting of false teachings. That much is true.

hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 4:10 pm

Definitely disagree. Several people at my church this morning were using this same argument regarding evolution vs. Creation.

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political Georgia
05/27/18 4:18 pm

Aren’t you Southern Baptist?

hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 4:45 pm

No, but maybe I should be. I consider myself to be a non-denominational evangelical, but my church is Assemblies of God.

political Georgia
05/27/18 4:56 pm

I’ll have to look at your articles of faith sometime.

hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 5:05 pm

Here is a good summary.

-The Bible to be the inspired and only infallible and authoritative Word of God.
-That there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
-In the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, in his virgin birth, in his sinless life, in his miracles, in his vicarious and atoning death, in his bodily resurrection, in his ascension to the right hand of the Father, and in his personal, future return to this earth in power and glory to rule over the nations.
-That the only means of being cleansed from sin is through repentance and faith in the precious blood of Christ.
-That regeneration by the Holy Spirit is absolutely essential for personal salvation.
-In the resurrection of both the saved and the lost, the one to everlasting life and the other to everlasting damnation.

These are the points I believe.

hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 5:07 pm

This I do not think is backed by the Bible. I believe in "Thy will be done"

-That the redemptive work of Christ on the cross provides healing of the human body in answer to believing prayer.

These points are a little confusing to me:

-That the baptism in the Holy Spirit, according to Acts 2:4, is given to believers who ask for it.
-In the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit by whose indwelling the Christian is enabled to live a holy life.

political Georgia
05/27/18 5:14 pm

Sounds similar to Pentecostals

hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 5:17 pm

Assemblies of God are a type of Pentecostal. But again, I don't consider myself Pentecostal. In fact, my church is more similar to Calvary Chapel in practice, worship, and preaching.

political Georgia
05/27/18 6:19 pm

I hope they aren’t fans of Steven Furtick...

hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 7:01 pm

I've never heard of him, so probably not. Who is he?

political Georgia
05/27/18 7:22 pm

One of the upcoming Osteen’s in the world out of N.C.

hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 7:31 pm

Uh oh. Yeah, Joel Osteen has some weird stuff.

hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 9:10 pm

Thank you for the compliment above Political. She didn't seem very fair with her argument. The only person I saw putting down others was her, every time we challenged her. This topic is very important to me.

political Georgia
05/27/18 9:26 pm

As it should be - Furthermore, I become from skeptical of professing Christians who don’t encourage the reading of the Bible.

hfhgsrjjdf
05/27/18 9:26 pm

Same.