Show of HandsShow of Hands

palindrome July 5th, 2013 11:42pm

The Zimmerman trial is wrapping up. Do you believe he is guilty?

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DrReid Ever present.
07/06/13 9:16 am

I think he is guilty, but it does not matter what I think. Has the prosecution proved his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt? I am not so sure.

forte6627 Ugh
07/06/13 8:01 am

He's guilty and the evidence and his own statements prove it. He approached the boy without announcing his position as neighborhood watch hoping to hunt a criminal but instead killed a innocent visitor/ temporary resident.

CDFL alt right, alt snowflake
07/06/13 8:30 am

I don't understand what he was expecting to do. Stop a random kid in the street with his gun, then do what? Scare him off? Interrogate him?

forte6627 Ugh
07/06/13 8:56 am

It is funny how not one gun advocate promote the idea if Mr.Martin had a gun he would have been alive today. But makes hypothetical statements about if the movie goers in Arura, Co carried gun the assailant would have been stopped.

forte6627 Ugh
07/06/13 9:03 am

Nor have they demonized Zimmerman or being a irresponsible gun owner. It is hard not to see that the complexion of these two people may have played a big part to the reaction and comments of people in our society.

palindrome California
07/06/13 2:30 pm

Exactly shady. What was his intention? He continued chasing him after being told not to. He was armed. Why did he suspect this kid of doing something illegal when Martin was demonstrating no behavior to justify such an assumption?

07/05/13 11:17 pm

Thinking with my heart I think he's guilty of everything in the world and should never walk as a free man again. Thinking legally, he's still guilty, but not of second degree murder. I almost wish they went for a different charge so it would've have

07/05/13 11:19 pm

been easier for the prosecution, because at the heart of the case, a kid is dead by Zimmerman's hands. He is guilty of something. But I don't think second degree murder, I'm just not sure what the jury could be thinking though, guess we will find out

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/06/13 2:26 am

Maybe the kid forced the outcome of his own death.

ishady 86451132020
07/06/13 6:40 am

Guilty of defending himself from an armed lunatic with a gun. Where have we heard that before?

07/06/13 10:22 am

Doopy, I don't believe that for a second. Especially if you look at details in the case, like how Martin didn't have blood on his hands or clothing. That strongly contradicts Zimmerman's statements of almost everything. I don't like in fantasyland, I

07/06/13 10:23 am

know Martin was no angel, but even if he was doing something illegal that night it's no reason to be killed by anyone, especially not some wannabe cop looking for action.

r3VOLution not of this world
07/05/13 10:32 pm

I'm always innocent til proven guilty. I think ppl get so wrapped up in the drama they ignore facts and the structure and purpose of our judicial system. We are so quick to convict in the court of public opinion. This trial is only half over.

fredd TrumpLand
07/05/13 9:28 pm

I'm leaning a little towards guilty. I think it's still not clear what actually happened, but I find the lack of any evidence from martin's nails etc makes Zimmerman's story of a prolonged fight seem doubtful.

timeout Boston Strong
07/05/13 7:55 pm

I think he is but my feeling is he is going to walk.

patron Miami
07/05/13 7:57 pm


07/05/13 10:35 pm

I agree. I think he's guilty too, but I think about other high-profile cases like O.J. and Casey Anthony and I think he'll walk, too. Sad.

MrWolfe Nashville
07/05/13 7:08 pm

Have a feeling he'll walk based on the specific definition of the charge.
He certainly has that young man's blood on his hands, but I'm not sure he intended for things to play out the way that they did. Negligent & delusional, not malicious. Sad case

07/05/13 11:20 pm

Couldn't have said it better myself

StilettoMiss SF med law, meme queen
07/05/13 6:19 pm

Only in Florida can you follow someone against the advice of a police dispatcher armed like some Wild West cowboy, shoot that person to death, then plead not guilty in their death. The facts aren't in question. He took someone's life.

Zoopz South Carolina
07/05/13 10:10 pm

He never denied taking TMs life...

07/05/13 10:37 pm

Totally, stilettomiss! I hope he gets convicted, but Florida is crazy; so I doubt it.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/06/13 6:25 am

Not only in Florida. There are tons of places where you can shoot someone who jumps you because they think violence is a suitable response to being followed.

07/05/13 5:55 pm

Burden of proof is on the prosecution and they proved nothing. If he is convicted it will be on shaky ground. Beyond a shadow of doubt, that's how it should be. Let him go.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/05/13 6:08 pm

Beyond a reasonable doubt. If you had to prove guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt "space aliens did it in their sleep" would become a viable defense, and no one would ever be convicted of anything. No crime would ever be punished.

fredd TrumpLand
07/05/13 9:29 pm

Hmmm agree with doopy again. Something weird going on here.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/05/13 9:37 pm

Mind control experiment coming along nicely...

My doctoral thesis in Mad Science will be Earth-shattering!

EarlyBird Portland
07/05/13 5:37 pm

I've not watched any of the trial but from everything I've heard, not enough evidence to convict.

Zod Above Pugetropolis
07/05/13 5:32 pm

I didn't see anything to make me question my original thought, but it's Florida, so it could go wrong. Like OJ I guess, if they don't get him on this one, they'll get him next time.

07/05/13 10:39 pm

True, but how sad is that?!

EarlyBird Portland
07/05/13 5:11 pm

One question: other than the gunshot wound, were there any other injuries Martin sustained?

EarlyBird Portland
07/05/13 5:17 pm

Ok, other than gunshot wound and death, any injuries?

ishady 86451132020
07/05/13 5:38 pm

Zimmerman didn't defend himself. He wanted to get beat up so he could kill someone. I'll bet you he threatened treyvon to get him to attack.
Something to think about.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/05/13 6:04 pm

"I'll bet you" is not probable cause.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/05/13 6:06 pm

(Much less conviction beyond reasonable doubt.)

ishady 86451132020
07/06/13 2:11 am

It's an opinion. You going to side with him because he carries a gun? That makes him innocent? There is no " reasonable doubt " to you of his innocence?
This isn't political,it's criminal. He is guilty of premeditated murder.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/06/13 2:14 am

There you go again, iShady...

You don't get to convict someone based on reasonable doubt of his innocence. You convict when he is PROVEN guilty BEYOND a reasonable doubt.

ishady 86451132020
07/06/13 2:20 am

Ok, he's innocent. Just a babe in the woods. Who wanted to be a police officer but got rejected. We have seen this type of guy before. Scared of the world with a firearm on his hip. He's a hero to you I guess.

ishady 86451132020
07/06/13 2:22 am

By the way this isn't a court of law on here. So spare the preaching. It's a half ass comment app. So lighten the fùck up.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/06/13 2:25 am

So we return to "I bet" isn't even probable cause. Be honest. Your belief that he's guilty is a hunch at best. It could even be rooted in your own ideology.

ishady 86451132020
07/06/13 6:20 am

Your right about that. I disagree with gun toting cop wannabes looking for any excuse to shoot someone to assuage the anger and fear they feel.
They seem like cowards to me.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/06/13 6:23 am

You just hate guns enough that you think it's okay to hate the people that have them.

ishady 86451132020
07/06/13 6:38 am

My anti-gun stance on here is well known.
I don't think the average numbnut American is responsible enough to carry one. Do you think treyvon should have carried one as well? Or is he excluded in your everyone should carry idea?

forte6627 Ugh
07/06/13 9:24 am

Shady I have not heard one gun advocate say that not even once. A part of me feels if mr. Martin was a lighter complexion than Zimmerman that statement would have been made by pro gun advocates

ishady 86451132020
07/06/13 10:51 am

If treyvon Martin was white Zimmerman would have been arrested and charged on the spot.
But the assumption in this country is that if your black your guilty of something.

forte6627 Ugh
07/06/13 11:05 am

Shady I don't even say race, Cause even if both were black the lite skin black person with features typical of a white person would be treated better than a darker skinned black person with features typical of a black person.

ishady 86451132020
07/06/13 11:20 am

I agree. But the term " lighter complexion" led me to believe you were implying a racial connotation to this.
George may not be a racist ,but his motivation that night was one of revenge for the ppl that get away. Only he knows what he meant.

shellybaxter1234 Peaceful Place
07/05/13 5:02 pm

Actually the trail is not wrapping up - one side is wrapping up - now the defense will come - then closings - which can make a HUGE impact

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/05/13 5:08 pm

Maybe he said that because after THAT prosecution, Zimmerman doesn't even need a defense...

palindrome California
07/05/13 5:08 pm

Sorry. I was in a rush when I wrote that. I meant prosecution

palindrome California
07/05/13 4:50 pm

Let me list off just SOME of Zimmerman's lies:
-"he jumped out of bushes and surprised me"
>> there are absolutely NO bushes in the area. No where to really hide period. It's a very open area
- "he circled my car"
>> yet he made absolutely NO mention

palindrome California
07/05/13 4:52 pm

of this on the 911 tape
-"he bashed my head in the concrete"
>> they weren't near the sidewalk, unless they got up and continued the struggle in the same position
-"I screamed for help 40 times"
>>despite claiming Martin had his mouth over his nose

palindrome California
07/05/13 4:57 pm

and mouth
-"he reached for my gun"
>>absolutely NO DNA/fingerprint evidence of Martin's on the gun OR holster
-"I returned to my car after the police dispatch told me to"
>>no he didn't. At least not immediately. We could hear him continue running

palindrome California
07/05/13 4:59 pm

-"Martin repeatedly beat my head in the pavement"
>> medical says that's unlikely. His wounds certainly don't indicate repeated impact, perhaps one, but not repeated as Zimmerman claims. Furthermore, she also testified the wounds don't even look like

palindrome California
07/05/13 5:01 pm

they were made by being slammed against the pavement.

palindrome California
07/05/13 5:04 pm

-Supposedly, Martin was beating this man to death... That's what Zimmerman claims. Yet the medical examiner testified today that there was absolutely no DNA from Zimmerman under Martin's fingernails or hands. Funny how all that blood managed to avoid

palindrome California
07/05/13 5:06 pm

Martin's hands, isn't it? Remember the pictures, Zimmerman was a bloody mess. Blood on the back of his head, eyes, nose and mouth... Yet Martin had no blood on his hands or under his fingernails (indicative of the struggle), nor any real abrasions

palindrome California
07/05/13 5:07 pm

on his hands besides a tiny scratch under his ring. A tiny scratch on this skinny kids knuckle, no blood on his hands, no blood under his fingernails.... Yet Zimmerman was a bloody mess...? Isn't that the questionable? Those are huge red flags

r3VOLution not of this world
07/05/13 10:34 pm

You made up your mind before the defense argues their side? Foolish.

I'm glad u aren't the judge or jury.

palindrome California
07/05/13 10:38 pm

You're right. But given his own testimony, it's not adding up. We'll have to see what the defense argues, but, as it stands, the kid is dead and the ONE guy who knows for sure what happened is giving us all sorts of inconsistencies and lies.

07/05/13 10:44 pm

To me, it's awfully strange that Zimmerman waited til the next day to go to a hospital. Plenty of time to form a plan.

rolltribe Ohio
07/05/13 4:49 pm

I definitely believe he is guilty, but I'm not sure if there is enough evidence for a conviction. I'd have to think about it a while longer

OhTheIrony Learning from you
07/05/13 4:48 pm

Guilty of what exactly? Which count(s) are you referring to?

palindrome California
07/05/13 4:48 pm

2nd degree manslaughter

r3VOLution not of this world
07/05/13 10:36 pm

He was charged with 2nd degree murder. There is a big difference.

palindrome California
07/05/13 10:40 pm

2nd degree as in 2nd degree murder ...

...Or manslaughter

He is guilty of one of those. Sorry you didn't understand the shortened version

palindrome California
07/05/13 4:47 pm

What convinces me the most is his own lies. The man has lied about several critical details.