Show of HandsShow of Hands

Praetorianus August 11th, 2016 1:49am

Scenario: you are good friends with a neighboring couple that has a son. You've known each other for years. The son just turned 16 and is developing a political stance you strongly oppose. Do you debate with him or avoid the issue to keep the peace?

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CMD1973 Oxford iowa
08/15/16 3:19 pm

I will spare with the teenager so long as the discussion doesn't get heated. I am a teacher, so it comes naturally to me.

ConservativeCA Joe Biden is barely alive
08/12/16 6:41 am

I'm 20, so the age difference wouldn't be a problem. But if I was an adult, say in my 40s, I would avoid debating him.

ronderman North Carolina
08/11/16 11:52 am

I would do the same thing I do with my kids. I would challenge him on his ideals and would play both sides of the issues. I would then allow the kid to make up his own mind.

USNavyVet Sonar Man STG2
08/11/16 7:17 am

Who gives a shit what the kid thinks duh.

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phalnx Ohio
08/11/16 5:41 am

I never turn down a good debate.

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rickvee Living the dream
08/11/16 5:39 am

I avoid it. He's 16 and probably just an idiot. He'll learn one day.

17millionTwats Leeds, UK
08/11/16 2:51 am

Theres no sense in passionately debating every single person with slightly differing views than you, sometimes its just better to keep your mouth shut

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theNobamist Silicon Valley
08/10/16 11:53 pm

He's 16. He'll learn. I'd sign up his house to receive mails from organizations that are not-yet-banned by Stalinobama. 😈

Tolstoy Missouri
08/10/16 11:34 pm

Welcome to a democracy

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Greenie Social Democrat
08/10/16 9:35 pm

I'm always happy to have a good natured debate with a friend.

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TopsQueen Oregon Coast
08/10/16 8:05 pm

It would depend. If he was anti gay I would talk. If he supported Hilary I would shrug it off.

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Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/10/16 8:31 pm

Amazing. Supporting Hillary would be your opposite? I wouldn't have pegged you as right wing tea party.

gow488 Korea
08/10/16 7:45 pm

Probably avoid. I don't like talking about politics in the real life. Only on the Internet.

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TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
08/10/16 7:43 pm

I debate with him and straighten the kid out, of course.

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KojimaStudios
08/10/16 7:38 pm

You've been friends for years. I don't think keeping peace is a huge concern. Debate him civilly as in any other debate. Heck, you might even learn something!

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jfish82285 Tennessean in Colorado
08/10/16 7:13 pm

It might not be appropriate to debate your friend's child. However, you can debate and keep the peace at the same time. A debate doesn't have to be negative per say.

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Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/10/16 7:17 pm

Yes. I'd like to add that by debate, I meant an earnest discussion, not a heated argument that may result in a shouting match. Keep it civilized.

Krystina Let Freedom Reign
08/10/16 7:33 pm

Yes to the earnest discussion and keeping it civil. I'd view it as a chance to mold a young mind in a non-confrontational manner. That said, if you're non-confrontational and he still reacts poorly or it starts to head south, you can always ease off.

Okie1967 Is Biden self aware
08/10/16 7:35 pm

Trying to mold a child's mind can be a very offensive thing from the parent's perspective. It's not anybody's job to do that expect the parent. Teachers are supposed to do it in a pure academic sense only.

Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/10/16 7:39 pm

I make quite a difference between childhood and adolescence. Imo, adolescence is too late to "mold", expect rebellion.

Krystina Let Freedom Reign
08/10/16 7:39 pm

Ah yes, my lack of children is showing. I hadn't even considered the parents.

So let me ask this, Okie, would it be acceptable if you and the parents shared the same or very similar political views and you were trying to sway the teen in the direction the parents would support? I assume it would be acceptable under those circumstances, yes?

Krystina Let Freedom Reign
08/10/16 7:41 pm

Preat, if you think the kid is too old to mold and you expect rebellion, I would definitely steer clear.

jfish82285 Tennessean in Colorado
08/10/16 7:41 pm

I'd rather no swaying occur in that situation. Simply provide them with the facts and have them draw their conclusions.

Okie1967 Is Biden self aware
08/10/16 7:44 pm

Yes so long as it just reinforced my views. Even then, however, I wouldn't want anybody talking a young child of mine about sexual issues.

Okie1967 Is Biden self aware
08/10/16 7:45 pm

Let me modify that. "Reinforced my views" and I knew it was going to happen, and I knew you well enough to trust you. This is basically what I allow to happen in Sunday school each week.

Krystina Let Freedom Reign
08/10/16 7:47 pm

Makes sense. We are talking politics here though, right? Not sex.

Either way, it seems I do have to retract my initial comment, Preat. Go with Okie's take. He's a parent. I'm not. I think his assessment is better on this.

Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/10/16 7:49 pm

Okie, 16 isn't a young child. That young child may be 6 foot tall, drive a car and have a girlfriend. Young child 😹

Okie1967 Is Biden self aware
08/10/16 7:50 pm

Politics are nearly impossible to unravel from their underlying moral or value system.

Krystina Let Freedom Reign
08/10/16 7:59 pm

Oh now Okie, I do get where you're coming from, but you can't know me and actually argue that, at least not fully. I mean, you have to think I'm morally bankrupt in regard to my sexual proclivities. Yet, we share a good deal of the same political views. So, while there are definitely areas any religious person would want someone like me to stay 1,000 miles away from, there are also political areas I could tread with a religious person's child that fall far outside that scope...constitution, rights like freedom of speech or the right to bear arms, economics, free market, and foreign trade. You get the idea.

Okie1967 Is Biden self aware
08/10/16 8:05 pm

16 year olds are still learning and developing. Many are unsure of their sexuality and can be influenced easily. They're certainly more susceptible to grooming at 16 than they would be at 18. Some are suicidal, depressed, confused, suffer anxiety, eye. Putting ideas in their heads isn't the work of a stranger.

Krystina, please don't personalize it. I wasn't thinking about you personally at all. In just saying that the prevailing issues of the day - abortion and gay marriage - cannot easily be handled whilst tip toeing around the elephant in the room which is the morality of it all.

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Okie1967 Is Biden self aware
08/10/16 8:05 pm

And "yes," I see get the idea of what you're saying and wouldn't mind that discussion at all.

Krystina Let Freedom Reign
08/10/16 8:10 pm

Oh, I know you weren't thinking about me. That's actually why I used me as an example, because you know me and you know there are issues I could hit on where you and I would be 100% in lock step.

As an aside, I feel I should note that I'm not offended by religious people thinking I'm morally bankrupt in certain areas. So please don't take that as some passive aggressive remark. It wasn't. It's just fact. But, many religious people, you included, have proven the love the sinner, hate the sin adage and I commend you and the others for that. 😊

Okie1967 Is Biden self aware
08/10/16 8:15 pm

Thanks Krystina. I wouldn't ever describe you as morally bankrupt. I'd just say you have different values than me. Praet does too when it comes to sexual values, but I treat him favorably. I try to treat people kindly, but I'm especially appreciative of them when I find they don't turn into rageaholics when learning of my conservative beliefs.

Krystina Let Freedom Reign
08/10/16 8:19 pm

Aw, thank you for that, Okie. I always assume religious people just think that of me. Nice to hear otherwise. 😊

To the rest, I think that's a mutual thing that's called respect. Too bad so much of our society seems devoid of it nowadays.

Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/10/16 8:25 pm

I actually have some conservative views, such as a pro life stance, pro free market, pro second amendment and generally that tradition can be better than change for change's sake.
It's mostly religious issues I disagree with.

Okie1967 Is Biden self aware
08/10/16 8:35 pm

And I recognize those conservative values in you, praet. 👍

Krystina Let Freedom Reign
08/10/16 8:39 pm

Should it be a surprise that you have some conservative views, Preat? Do you lean left and I didn't realize? I had you in the middle, maybe slightly right.

Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/10/16 8:46 pm

@Krystina: some people could mistake me for left leaning because of the freethinker attitude/agnosticism, and non belief in absolute morals as well as some pretty hippie ideas like allowing sex in public.

Krystina Let Freedom Reign
08/10/16 9:05 pm

Ah, I see. Makes sense, Preat.

catpillow Florida West Coast
08/10/16 7:07 pm

He's young and will probably change his mind a few times. I'll leave him alone unless I see him headed towards disaster.

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Okie1967 Is Biden self aware
08/10/16 6:58 pm

Debating almost never results in any positive outcome. People almost never change their opinions, but rather become more cunning and skilled at justifying their positions and learning how to defend them. Also, friendship and peace are undervalued. Furthermore, the only real victory happens at the ballot box.

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MJSeals J.D.
08/10/16 7:31 pm

Wwwaaaaiiiiiittttttt........Okie say what now?

Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/10/16 7:37 pm

Actually, I think Okie is right. It's nearly impossible to change fundamental political opinions by debating.
I still try but wouldn't have been successful with my younger self for example, at 16, I was stubborn as a mule.

Okie1967 Is Biden self aware
08/10/16 7:42 pm

The Socratic method can be helpful because it's never offensive. Of course, I say "helpful" on the assumption that my position is actually right. We just be willing to be wrong AND civil if we're to ensure that we're never going to be an ass.

MJSeals J.D.
08/10/16 7:44 pm

I'm not saying he's right or wrong, I just didn't expect that from Okie. I mean, the guy is constantly trying to club me!

SouthernLaw Old North State
08/10/16 6:56 pm

I don't think it would be appropriate to debate.

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bluerum29 optimistic idealist
08/10/16 7:05 pm

Exactly. Give the kid some real knowledge

taumpy Massachusetts
08/10/16 6:53 pm

Discuss more than debate. I wouldn't go too hard on the kid because lord knows I thought some dumb things at that age.

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MJSeals J.D.
08/10/16 7:31 pm

^ the allegory of the cave. It's a way of life, not just a really cool metaphor.

spicysteve M14D SBS
08/10/16 6:51 pm

I wouldn't start anything. But I would absolutely debate back if he engaged.