Show of HandsShow of Hands

Praetorianus August 11th, 2016 1:49am

Scenario: you are good friends with a neighboring couple that has a son. You've known each other for years. The son just turned 16 and is developing a political stance you strongly oppose. Do you debate with him or avoid the issue to keep the peace?

15 Liked

Comments: Add Comment

KojimaStudios
08/10/16 7:38 pm

You've been friends for years. I don't think keeping peace is a huge concern. Debate him civilly as in any other debate. Heck, you might even learn something!

Reply
Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/10/16 7:17 pm

Yes. I'd like to add that by debate, I meant an earnest discussion, not a heated argument that may result in a shouting match. Keep it civilized.

Reply
Okie1967 Lets go brandon
08/10/16 6:58 pm

Debating almost never results in any positive outcome. People almost never change their opinions, but rather become more cunning and skilled at justifying their positions and learning how to defend them. Also, friendship and peace are undervalued. Furthermore, the only real victory happens at the ballot box.

Reply
jfish82285 Tennessean in Colorado
08/10/16 7:13 pm

It might not be appropriate to debate your friend's child. However, you can debate and keep the peace at the same time. A debate doesn't have to be negative per say.

Reply
SouthernLaw Old North State
08/10/16 6:56 pm

I don't think it would be appropriate to debate.

Reply
17millionTwats Leeds, UK
08/11/16 2:51 am

Theres no sense in passionately debating every single person with slightly differing views than you, sometimes its just better to keep your mouth shut

Reply
Okie1967 Lets go brandon
08/10/16 8:15 pm

Thanks Krystina. I wouldn't ever describe you as morally bankrupt. I'd just say you have different values than me. Praet does too when it comes to sexual values, but I treat him favorably. I try to treat people kindly, but I'm especially appreciative of them when I find they don't turn into rageaholics when learning of my conservative beliefs.

Reply
Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/10/16 7:37 pm

Actually, I think Okie is right. It's nearly impossible to change fundamental political opinions by debating.
I still try but wouldn't have been successful with my younger self for example, at 16, I was stubborn as a mule.

Reply
Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/10/16 7:49 pm

Okie, 16 isn't a young child. That young child may be 6 foot tall, drive a car and have a girlfriend. Young child 😹

Reply
phalnx Ohio
08/11/16 5:41 am

I never turn down a good debate.

Reply
Tolstoy Missouri
08/10/16 11:34 pm

Welcome to a democracy

Reply
TopsQueen Oregon Coast
08/10/16 8:05 pm

It would depend. If he was anti gay I would talk. If he supported Hilary I would shrug it off.

Reply
Krystina Let Freedom Reign
08/10/16 8:10 pm

Oh, I know you weren't thinking about me. That's actually why I used me as an example, because you know me and you know there are issues I could hit on where you and I would be 100% in lock step.

As an aside, I feel I should note that I'm not offended by religious people thinking I'm morally bankrupt in certain areas. So please don't take that as some passive aggressive remark. It wasn't. It's just fact. But, many religious people, you included, have proven the love the sinner, hate the sin adage and I commend you and the others for that. 😊

Reply
Krystina Let Freedom Reign
08/10/16 8:19 pm

Aw, thank you for that, Okie. I always assume religious people just think that of me. Nice to hear otherwise. 😊

To the rest, I think that's a mutual thing that's called respect. Too bad so much of our society seems devoid of it nowadays.

Reply
Krystina Let Freedom Reign
08/10/16 7:39 pm

Ah yes, my lack of children is showing. I hadn't even considered the parents.

So let me ask this, Okie, would it be acceptable if you and the parents shared the same or very similar political views and you were trying to sway the teen in the direction the parents would support? I assume it would be acceptable under those circumstances, yes?

Reply
Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/10/16 8:25 pm

I actually have some conservative views, such as a pro life stance, pro free market, pro second amendment and generally that tradition can be better than change for change's sake.
It's mostly religious issues I disagree with.

Reply
TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
08/10/16 7:43 pm

I debate with him and straighten the kid out, of course.

Reply
Okie1967 Lets go brandon
08/10/16 7:44 pm

Yes so long as it just reinforced my views. Even then, however, I wouldn't want anybody talking a young child of mine about sexual issues.

Reply
Okie1967 Lets go brandon
08/10/16 7:45 pm

Let me modify that. "Reinforced my views" and I knew it was going to happen, and I knew you well enough to trust you. This is basically what I allow to happen in Sunday school each week.

Reply
bluerum29 optimistic idealist
08/10/16 7:05 pm

Exactly. Give the kid some real knowledge

Reply
catpillow Florida West Coast
08/10/16 7:07 pm

He's young and will probably change his mind a few times. I'll leave him alone unless I see him headed towards disaster.

Reply
Greenie Social Democrat
08/10/16 9:35 pm

I'm always happy to have a good natured debate with a friend.

Reply
Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/10/16 8:31 pm

Amazing. Supporting Hillary would be your opposite? I wouldn't have pegged you as right wing tea party.

Reply
Okie1967 Lets go brandon
08/10/16 8:35 pm

And I recognize those conservative values in you, praet. 👍

Reply
Krystina Let Freedom Reign
08/10/16 7:59 pm

Oh now Okie, I do get where you're coming from, but you can't know me and actually argue that, at least not fully. I mean, you have to think I'm morally bankrupt in regard to my sexual proclivities. Yet, we share a good deal of the same political views. So, while there are definitely areas any religious person would want someone like me to stay 1,000 miles away from, there are also political areas I could tread with a religious person's child that fall far outside that scope...constitution, rights like freedom of speech or the right to bear arms, economics, free market, and foreign trade. You get the idea.

Reply
Okie1967 Lets go brandon
08/10/16 8:05 pm

16 year olds are still learning and developing. Many are unsure of their sexuality and can be influenced easily. They're certainly more susceptible to grooming at 16 than they would be at 18. Some are suicidal, depressed, confused, suffer anxiety, eye. Putting ideas in their heads isn't the work of a stranger.

Krystina, please don't personalize it. I wasn't thinking about you personally at all. In just saying that the prevailing issues of the day - abortion and gay marriage - cannot easily be handled whilst tip toeing around the elephant in the room which is the morality of it all.

.

Reply
Okie1967 Lets go brandon
08/10/16 8:05 pm

And "yes," I see get the idea of what you're saying and wouldn't mind that discussion at all.

Reply
USNavyVet Sonar Man STG2
08/11/16 7:17 am

Who gives a shit what the kid thinks duh.

Reply
MJSeals Esq.
08/10/16 7:31 pm

Wwwaaaaiiiiiittttttt........Okie say what now?

Reply
MJSeals Esq.
08/10/16 7:31 pm

^ the allegory of the cave. It's a way of life, not just a really cool metaphor.

Reply
Krystina Let Freedom Reign
08/10/16 7:33 pm

Yes to the earnest discussion and keeping it civil. I'd view it as a chance to mold a young mind in a non-confrontational manner. That said, if you're non-confrontational and he still reacts poorly or it starts to head south, you can always ease off.

Reply
taumpy Massachusetts
08/10/16 6:53 pm

Discuss more than debate. I wouldn't go too hard on the kid because lord knows I thought some dumb things at that age.

Reply
Krystina Let Freedom Reign
08/10/16 9:05 pm

Ah, I see. Makes sense, Preat.

Reply
Okie1967 Lets go brandon
08/10/16 7:35 pm

Trying to mold a child's mind can be a very offensive thing from the parent's perspective. It's not anybody's job to do that expect the parent. Teachers are supposed to do it in a pure academic sense only.

Reply
Krystina Let Freedom Reign
08/10/16 7:41 pm

Preat, if you think the kid is too old to mold and you expect rebellion, I would definitely steer clear.

Reply
jfish82285 Tennessean in Colorado
08/10/16 7:41 pm

I'd rather no swaying occur in that situation. Simply provide them with the facts and have them draw their conclusions.

Reply
MJSeals Esq.
08/10/16 7:44 pm

I'm not saying he's right or wrong, I just didn't expect that from Okie. I mean, the guy is constantly trying to club me!

Reply
gow488 Korea
08/10/16 7:45 pm

Probably avoid. I don't like talking about politics in the real life. Only on the Internet.

Reply
Krystina Let Freedom Reign
08/10/16 7:47 pm

Makes sense. We are talking politics here though, right? Not sex.

Either way, it seems I do have to retract my initial comment, Preat. Go with Okie's take. He's a parent. I'm not. I think his assessment is better on this.

ronderman North Carolina
08/11/16 11:52 am

I would do the same thing I do with my kids. I would challenge him on his ideals and would play both sides of the issues. I would then allow the kid to make up his own mind.

Okie1967 Lets go brandon
08/10/16 7:50 pm

Politics are nearly impossible to unravel from their underlying moral or value system.

rickvee Living the dream
08/11/16 5:39 am

I avoid it. He's 16 and probably just an idiot. He'll learn one day.

Krystina Let Freedom Reign
08/10/16 8:39 pm

Should it be a surprise that you have some conservative views, Preat? Do you lean left and I didn't realize? I had you in the middle, maybe slightly right.

Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/10/16 8:46 pm

@Krystina: some people could mistake me for left leaning because of the freethinker attitude/agnosticism, and non belief in absolute morals as well as some pretty hippie ideas like allowing sex in public.

theNobamist Silicon Valley
08/10/16 11:53 pm

He's 16. He'll learn. I'd sign up his house to receive mails from organizations that are not-yet-banned by Stalinobama. 😈

spicysteve M14D SBS
08/10/16 6:51 pm

I wouldn't start anything. But I would absolutely debate back if he engaged.