What's more liberating: the right to vote or the right to bear arms?
Ask the people in North Korea if they feel liberated voting....
"I feel so powerful with a gun in my hand. Like how God must feel when He's holding a gun."
guns allow us to vote
It's nice to live in a place where we don't have to choose between having one right or the other. Both help protect the other.
I'd give up my vote for guns but I wouldn't give up my guns for votes.
It's almost comical how many people think guns protect our rights. It's this belief that has allowed our rights to be eroded, largely without a fight. Letting people keep their guns gives them the illusion of control. The NSA tracks your every move..
banks loot the country and police beat protesters, but hey, at least you can cuddle your gun at night.
Guns to back up our other rights.
Our right to bear arms empowers us with the right to vote.
If enough of the populous has weapons then the government can't insulate you, in fear of a coup.
Enslave* my autocorrect keeps screwing me tonight...
The government has drones.
The government will never have enough drones to take us all out.
If they have drones, do you think we could really have enough guns to take the government out? The government would only have to kill "extremists" with guns.
Magical.."extremists" with guns? Freedom "extremists" could number in the millions if gov pushed too far. Would drone "pilots" follow orders to kill relatives, friends, and neighbors? Armed citizens are part of our checks and balances system...
Yes. Sadly yes. In the name of God, Country, and Freedom "we" will follow the leadership that has given us the BailOut, War on Drugs, and "We know how to handle Ebola"
The U.S. is quite large. I doubt people would have to kill their friends and families. And it's already obvious that people don't have much of an issue killing strangers
Me voting for what I believe won't keep the majority of ignorant voters from voting what they believe. I'll keep my guns.
Sounds like you're not that big on democracy.
I am for democracy when voters actually inform themselves on what they're voting for, instead of just taking other people's word for it.
Arms. The people in Russia, China, and other dictatorships who have the right to vote in those unanimous elections...are they liberated? It's not the right to vote that counts, it's who counts the votes. With arms, they might liberate themselves.
^^ this comment
Both are necessary.
Voting is more important to me!
Yes. I agree.
the right to defend yourself, your family, and your property is in my opinion the most liberating of our rights.
Just because you vote doesn't mean the government will listen, some communist countries vote all the time. But no one wants to screw over someone with the power to defend themself. It's basically hope vs. certainty.
Voting today is a waste of time. Your reasoned, intelligent and informed vote is going to be cancelled out by voter fraud, multiple ballots, illegals voting, "incorrectly calibrated" voting machines, lost ballots or simply some twerp without a clue
voting for a political party.
I'll take my guns, thanks.
Guns to defend our right to vote, why do think the left is worried.
Guns do no such thing.
Sure they do
Oh, but they do.
The left is very pro gun. Liberal daren't leftists
A new prince has never been known to disarm his subjects, on the contrary, when he has found them disarmed he has always armed them, for by arming them these arms become your own, those that you suspected become faithful and those that were faithful-
become your partisans.
Without the right to bear arms, you have no rights. Only privileges that the govt doesn't have to give you.
Because how could you stop them if they took those privileges away?
You think guns will stop the government from doing anything? You know insurgents in the Middle East have guns too. Is the US government afraid of them?
Guns absolutely will. There are 310 million guns in private hands in the us.
In the revolutionary war, less than 3% of the population actively resisted.
But gun owning private citizens in the us outnumber our military personnel over 40 to 1.
And, being a first world country, we have access to a plethora of higher quality materials to fight a guerrilla war.
We're much more equips to do so than those in the Middle East. And there are many many more of us.
Middle easterners did a pretty damn good job in Iraq. Demoralized us, made us want to bring our troops home, now 'boots on the ground isn't an option on the table and 'Iraqi Freedom' has become 'Contain the threat'.
You're assuming that all of those gun-owning citizens will agree about how to proceed. You're also assuming the government wouldn't use unmanned drones, which the British hadn't quite developed in the late 18th century.
Why yes they are.
Add to the fact that there are a lot of us ex military that know and understand how the military functions.
I feel that US Soldiers wouldn't side with the government. I don't know why, but it would seem weird to have them fighting US Citizens defending their rights for the government. Our constitution states that we can succeed from our Gov if we want to.
That is just my opinion though.
The constitution does not give states the right to secede.
It's gonna happen sooner than later, liberals and conservatives are diametrically opposed.
Sorry... Got my things mixed up...
All I know is that one of the founding fathers said its okay if we do, all I know is that we can if things get too shitty and your state wants out
The constitution doesn't mention secession, but the Declaration of Independence does give the people the go ahead on revolution.
"...That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government..."
I knew it was one of those two, what made me turn down the Declaration was that it was sent to the British declaring their independence (in my mind it made sense XD ) I haven't had US history for a couple years so I'm a little rusty on it
I've learned something again, until I forget it in five seconds ...
The Declaration of Independence doesn't grant any legal rights. It is not a legal document.
Voting, obviously-any asshole can buy more guns than I have, but no one can buy more votes (directly).
Haven't been near a poll site lately?
With all due respect, that's just silly.
3Gun-a savvy retort if ever I've seen one. What else you got?
Lip-Read: Ohio. What do you think?
The right to vote to bear arms.
There is no "right to vote" in the Constitution. There are several measures that prevent States from discriminating against or prohibiting citizens from voting, but no right. The 2nd Amendment is in the Constitution and essential to liberty.
But in this question it doesn't matter whether the right actually exists or not.
Right to bear arms. It is the best protection of our other rights.
Then explain the erosion of rights while we still have guns. How's the 4th Amendment doing these days? Where are the gun nuts putting an end to stop-and-frisk policies?
One of the erosions of our rights is the disarming of the public, leaving us nearly unable to contest current unconstitutional acts. I wonder if we'll be too far gone, into the abyss of "gun control" by the time we need to take our government and
What planet are you writing from? Please tell me what gun rights have been lost in the past 6 years.
I said nothing at all about the last 6 years. I mean in general.
OK, in general, what gun rights have been lost?
The right of the people to bear fully automatic weapons and weapons with over a certain amount of cartridges.
I could find no article which stated fully auto weapons are banned, just highly regulated. That does not constitute a lost right.
The right to make our own medical decisions.
Oh, I thought they were banned in 1986. Maybe that was repealed. I'm not certain. But I would note that restricting them to an extent where they're nearly impossible to get is still an infringement.
Because it's the libiots eroding 4a.
Thatguy2 been to Ny lately?
Fully automatic weapons are banned from being produced for sale to private citizens in the US. The right to own something you cannot find, heavily regulated or not is completely useless.
Bear arms. Bears are scary creatures if you can snatch arms off a bear and live to tell you're the leader of the pack in my book. Also I voted bear arms.
If I feel like I need a gun, I don't feel very free at all.
If I am not allowed to own a gun I don't feel free at all
Bethanyq.. Do you ever get the feeling that the ONLY right they care about is the right to have a gun?
That and freedom. Yeah that's it, fool.
Oh and perhaps changing your alias to face PLANT. Seems more appropriate.
Oh Jesus Christ lip. Yeah. You care about "freedom." What does that even mean, in your mind? It's such an overused word by so many that you're almost rendering it meaningless.
Also, way to show your violent side. Yeah, that TOTALLY makes me think
people like you can be trusted with dangerous weapons.
Do you know what freedom is? Pitiful fool, I don't care what you think. Freedom is just that, I'm free to call you out for the libiot you are.
Oh, and the crap .gov taught me to use and deploy should keep you up at night, for the rest of your life lols, wait I'm not a libiot, your ok.
I think I understood maybe about half of what you wrote. Shame about your educational priorities.
Do you want me to use small words so you can grasp them? I understand English is hard for you.
Hmm. He appears to be using English words but he's still spouting nonsense. Must be an affliction of the brain.
Ya know, Lip or iip or whatever, clearly you are young. Equally clearly you are a very angry person. Words of advice: name calling and snide threatening comments about what you may or may not have learned in the Military? Not a smart tactic.
Silly liberal circle jerk, faceplant, I'm neither young nor angry. Just tired of libiots spewing nonsense and drivel as accepted facts. That's all.
No, you are an aggressively rude, deliberately provocative, immature troll. You don't really care to discuss issues - you just want to call people names.
I would say have a nice day but frankly, I don't care if you do or not.
Cry me a river, you whiny spineless libiot. I realize that's redundant. I'd tell you to pound sand but you probably do it daily and find it enjoyable.
Lol - you are not even a very good bully Lip/iip/whatever. :). But please do keep talking, if it helps you to feel better. I can see you won't mind if I disengage from this thread.
Voting about guns! LOL
Vote until guns are needed for liberation.
List the places in the world outside of the US that you'd want to live:
How many of them allow guns and no voting?
How many allow guns and voting?
How many allow voting but no guns?
It sorts itself out pretty quickly.
Anywhere else I'd want to live has both. Having one or the other is a crappy situation in itself.
What is meant by liberating? I can't think of any oppressive dictators that have been overthrown by a vote. But in this country, I believe being able to vote on our laws is a better expression of my freedom than owning a gun.
Conversely there are many examples where guns/weapons have been used to take away others freedoms yet I've seldom heard of a vote doing so.
I mean which one is a better representation of freedom.
With that in mind, voting, absolutely hands down!
I can think of a vote that took away freedom. Colorado's amendment 2 in 1992 made discrimination against gay people constitutionally protected. Fortunately SCOTUS slapped it down pretty quickly. We had a better court back then.
I was considering lgbt laws when I wrote. Other than that particular vote, most of the anti lgbt laws didn't actually take away any freedoms because those freedoms have yet to be given to the lgbt community. I believe they should have those freedoms!
If voting made a difference it'd be illegal. This illusion you have about voting is just a ploy to keep you docile and obedient, to play this game of "dur well we get to pick em so it must be ok." What a crock.
It's not that voting is ineffective, it's just that we need to get big money out of politics so candidates can't buy elections. Place caps on donations and campaign spending and you've already solved a huge problem.
Yes indeed let's limit free speach.
Let's at least stop the democrats using unions to launder campaign contributions.
Money isn't speech. It's an inanimate object.
you really think youll be able to do that? even if its done behind the scenes it will happen in the end.
Sf liberal, I can give money to whom ever I want. You have no right to restrict me.
I shoot my gun personally and know where the bullet goes. But if you get your paws on my mail-in or hijack my electronic ballot, I really have nothing.
The latter will always ensure the former.
For whoever has the most guns, anyway.
Indeed. That's why we call ya a sheep.
Me personally or just anyone who disagrees with you?
Those that beat their swords to plows, will plow for those that don't.
... All righty then...
Most of the gun-toting world would love to have our ability to vote.
Does RebelFury follow you?
No. Rebel blocked me LONG ago. He doesn't seem to like ideas other than his own.
I can't say I miss the threats and cursing, though.
Thanks for sharing the poll. This is somewhat of a rebuttal to his recent poll about voter IDs and gun licenses.
North Koreans have the right to vote. Some good that does.
Guns wouldn't do them any good either, kscott.
Are you sure about that? Maybe not under the state-control they have now but if they knew what freedom was like or what they really don't know about their leader things might be very different.
Whats a gun going to do?
If I have to explain that...
Please explain it.
Yeah, here's the thing about guns: the government has more of them, bigger of them, more people willing to use them, and more social support for using them than you do. If the gov't wants you dead, you dead, and no amount of 'arms' will help you.
1. No I didn't, you popped up in my feed.
2. I love this "echo chamber" accusation, there are LOTS of people who follow me who I don't agree with, SFconservaliberal being one of them.
3. Threats? Come on now.
Really? How well did that work for Russia against the Mujahideen? The US in Iraq and Afghanistan?
To be fair, I do like your polls, rebel. They're very...creative. And once every blue moon you see the light at the end of the anarchy tunnel and actually agree with me.
So? How's that right to vote working out for North Koreans?
Hey, Rebel! I'm willing to give it a go again.
Thanks for unblocking. :-)
North Korea is a dictatorship, so obviously neither a vote nor a gun will help them.
We know voting won't but guns might. Depends on how many defectors in the military there would be combined with how many would fight against the govt.
Under Barry, a lot.