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SFLiberal October 24th, 2014 2:59pm

What's more liberating: the right to vote or the right to bear arms?

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ThePhlegm The Lone Star State
10/25/14 12:20 pm

Ask the people in North Korea if they feel liberated voting....

ThePhlegm The Lone Star State
10/25/14 12:18 pm

"I feel so powerful with a gun in my hand. Like how God must feel when He's holding a gun."

Homer Simpson

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lightsabr2 The Big Sky
10/25/14 2:41 am

It's nice to live in a place where we don't have to choose between having one right or the other. Both help protect the other.

dfish at home
10/25/14 1:01 am

I'd give up my vote for guns but I wouldn't give up my guns for votes.

thatguy2 We tried to warn you
10/24/14 11:27 pm

It's almost comical how many people think guns protect our rights. It's this belief that has allowed our rights to be eroded, largely without a fight. Letting people keep their guns gives them the illusion of control. The NSA tracks your every move..

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thatguy2 We tried to warn you
10/24/14 11:28 pm

banks loot the country and police beat protesters, but hey, at least you can cuddle your gun at night.

centexken Republic of Texas
10/24/14 9:34 pm

Guns to back up our other rights.

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LordAF
10/24/14 8:47 pm

Our right to bear arms empowers us with the right to vote.

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Fungamer2817 Intriguing...
10/24/14 7:32 pm

If enough of the populous has weapons then the government can't insulate you, in fear of a coup.

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Fungamer2817 Intriguing...
10/24/14 7:33 pm

Enslave* my autocorrect keeps screwing me tonight...

magicalgirling
10/24/14 7:46 pm

The government has drones.

centexken Republic of Texas
10/24/14 9:32 pm

The government will never have enough drones to take us all out.

magicalgirling
10/24/14 9:42 pm

If they have drones, do you think we could really have enough guns to take the government out? The government would only have to kill "extremists" with guns.

4boot LaTrineodeur, MN
10/24/14 10:39 pm

Magical.."extremists" with guns? Freedom "extremists" could number in the millions if gov pushed too far. Would drone "pilots" follow orders to kill relatives, friends, and neighbors? Armed citizens are part of our checks and balances system...

HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
10/25/14 6:48 am

Yes. Sadly yes. In the name of God, Country, and Freedom "we" will follow the leadership that has given us the BailOut, War on Drugs, and "We know how to handle Ebola"

magicalgirling
10/25/14 6:50 am

The U.S. is quite large. I doubt people would have to kill their friends and families. And it's already obvious that people don't have much of an issue killing strangers

TigerShark47 Missouri
10/24/14 7:23 pm

Me voting for what I believe won't keep the majority of ignorant voters from voting what they believe. I'll keep my guns.

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thatguy2 We tried to warn you
10/24/14 7:32 pm

Sounds like you're not that big on democracy.

TigerShark47 Missouri
10/24/14 7:57 pm

I am for democracy when voters actually inform themselves on what they're voting for, instead of just taking other people's word for it.

4boot LaTrineodeur, MN
10/24/14 5:19 pm

Arms. The people in Russia, China, and other dictatorships who have the right to vote in those unanimous elections...are they liberated? It's not the right to vote that counts, it's who counts the votes. With arms, they might liberate themselves.

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DonWichita Kansas
10/24/14 4:45 pm

Both are necessary.

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NikkiKitti47
10/24/14 4:44 pm

Voting is more important to me!

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SmileyMoM Lab Rat Vampire
10/25/14 6:43 am

Yes. I agree.

Zfilakas Eleftheria i Thanatos
10/24/14 4:34 pm

the right to defend yourself, your family, and your property is in my opinion the most liberating of our rights.

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RedHale Texas
10/24/14 4:14 pm

Just because you vote doesn't mean the government will listen, some communist countries vote all the time. But no one wants to screw over someone with the power to defend themself. It's basically hope vs. certainty.

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ScrewU Gone
10/24/14 3:02 pm

Voting today is a waste of time. Your reasoned, intelligent and informed vote is going to be cancelled out by voter fraud, multiple ballots, illegals voting, "incorrectly calibrated" voting machines, lost ballots or simply some twerp without a clue

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ScrewU Gone
10/24/14 3:03 pm

voting for a political party.

I'll take my guns, thanks.

jvc1133 61535
10/24/14 2:46 pm

Guns to defend our right to vote, why do think the left is worried.

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thatguy2 We tried to warn you
10/24/14 3:34 pm

Guns do no such thing.

jvc1133 61535
10/24/14 3:44 pm

Sure they do

James11370
10/25/14 6:33 am

The left is very pro gun. Liberal daren't leftists

corino Utah
10/24/14 1:54 pm

A new prince has never been known to disarm his subjects, on the contrary, when he has found them disarmed he has always armed them, for by arming them these arms become your own, those that you suspected become faithful and those that were faithful-

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gamerguy217
10/24/14 1:31 pm

Without the right to bear arms, you have no rights. Only privileges that the govt doesn't have to give you.

Because how could you stop them if they took those privileges away?

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bethanyq Ess Eff
10/24/14 1:33 pm

You think guns will stop the government from doing anything? You know insurgents in the Middle East have guns too. Is the US government afraid of them?

gamerguy217
10/24/14 1:36 pm

Guns absolutely will. There are 310 million guns in private hands in the us.

In the revolutionary war, less than 3% of the population actively resisted.

gamerguy217
10/24/14 1:36 pm

But gun owning private citizens in the us outnumber our military personnel over 40 to 1.

gamerguy217
10/24/14 1:40 pm

And, being a first world country, we have access to a plethora of higher quality materials to fight a guerrilla war.

We're much more equips to do so than those in the Middle East. And there are many many more of us.

corino Utah
10/24/14 1:53 pm

Middle easterners did a pretty damn good job in Iraq. Demoralized us, made us want to bring our troops home, now 'boots on the ground isn't an option on the table and 'Iraqi Freedom' has become 'Contain the threat'.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/24/14 2:02 pm

You're assuming that all of those gun-owning citizens will agree about how to proceed. You're also assuming the government wouldn't use unmanned drones, which the British hadn't quite developed in the late 18th century.

lip massholevania
10/24/14 2:07 pm

Add to the fact that there are a lot of us ex military that know and understand how the military functions.

MorKurt Oregon
10/24/14 4:05 pm

I feel that US Soldiers wouldn't side with the government. I don't know why, but it would seem weird to have them fighting US Citizens defending their rights for the government. Our constitution states that we can succeed from our Gov if we want to.

MorKurt Oregon
10/24/14 4:06 pm

That is just my opinion though.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/24/14 4:53 pm

The constitution does not give states the right to secede.

lip massholevania
10/24/14 4:57 pm

It's gonna happen sooner than later, liberals and conservatives are diametrically opposed.

MorKurt Oregon
10/24/14 4:59 pm

Sorry... Got my things mixed up...
All I know is that one of the founding fathers said its okay if we do, all I know is that we can if things get too shitty and your state wants out

gamerguy217
10/24/14 5:05 pm

The constitution doesn't mention secession, but the Declaration of Independence does give the people the go ahead on revolution.

gamerguy217
10/24/14 5:05 pm

"...That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government..."

MorKurt Oregon
10/24/14 5:08 pm

I knew it was one of those two, what made me turn down the Declaration was that it was sent to the British declaring their independence (in my mind it made sense XD ) I haven't had US history for a couple years so I'm a little rusty on it

MorKurt Oregon
10/24/14 5:09 pm

I've learned something again, until I forget it in five seconds ...

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/24/14 5:40 pm

The Declaration of Independence doesn't grant any legal rights. It is not a legal document.

ssuarez0 Planet Hope
10/24/14 1:27 pm

Voting, obviously-any asshole can buy more guns than I have, but no one can buy more votes (directly).

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lip massholevania
10/24/14 2:08 pm

Haven't been near a poll site lately?

ScrewU Gone
10/24/14 2:55 pm

With all due respect, that's just silly.

ssuarez0 Planet Hope
10/24/14 9:04 pm

3Gun-a savvy retort if ever I've seen one. What else you got?

ssuarez0 Planet Hope
10/24/14 9:04 pm

Lip-Read: Ohio. What do you think?

mrdudemanpants
10/24/14 1:02 pm

The right to vote to bear arms.

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Coltspig
10/24/14 12:43 pm

There is no "right to vote" in the Constitution. There are several measures that prevent States from discriminating against or prohibiting citizens from voting, but no right. The 2nd Amendment is in the Constitution and essential to liberty.

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mrdudemanpants
10/24/14 1:03 pm

But in this question it doesn't matter whether the right actually exists or not.

mrdudemanpants
10/24/14 1:03 pm

But in this question it doesn't matter whether the right actually exists or not.

RepMorris Pennsylvania
10/24/14 11:32 am

Right to bear arms. It is the best protection of our other rights.

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thatguy2 We tried to warn you
10/24/14 1:14 pm

Then explain the erosion of rights while we still have guns. How's the 4th Amendment doing these days? Where are the gun nuts putting an end to stop-and-frisk policies?

RepMorris Pennsylvania
10/24/14 1:20 pm

One of the erosions of our rights is the disarming of the public, leaving us nearly unable to contest current unconstitutional acts. I wonder if we'll be too far gone, into the abyss of "gun control" by the time we need to take our government and

thatguy2 We tried to warn you
10/24/14 1:24 pm

What planet are you writing from? Please tell me what gun rights have been lost in the past 6 years.

RepMorris Pennsylvania
10/24/14 1:29 pm

I said nothing at all about the last 6 years. I mean in general.

thatguy2 We tried to warn you
10/24/14 1:31 pm

OK, in general, what gun rights have been lost?

RepMorris Pennsylvania
10/24/14 1:34 pm

The right of the people to bear fully automatic weapons and weapons with over a certain amount of cartridges.

thatguy2 We tried to warn you
10/24/14 1:55 pm

I could find no article which stated fully auto weapons are banned, just highly regulated. That does not constitute a lost right.

corino Utah
10/24/14 1:59 pm

The right to make our own medical decisions.

RepMorris Pennsylvania
10/24/14 2:04 pm

Oh, I thought they were banned in 1986. Maybe that was repealed. I'm not certain. But I would note that restricting them to an extent where they're nearly impossible to get is still an infringement.

lip massholevania
10/24/14 2:09 pm

Because it's the libiots eroding 4a.

lip massholevania
10/24/14 2:10 pm

Thatguy2 been to Ny lately?

ScrewU Gone
10/24/14 2:57 pm

Fully automatic weapons are banned from being produced for sale to private citizens in the US. The right to own something you cannot find, heavily regulated or not is completely useless.

typetype level 2 pretty
10/24/14 10:28 am

Bear arms. Bears are scary creatures if you can snatch arms off a bear and live to tell you're the leader of the pack in my book. Also I voted bear arms.

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bethanyq Ess Eff
10/24/14 10:21 am

If I feel like I need a gun, I don't feel very free at all.

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goalie31 OrthodoxCatholicChristian
10/24/14 12:41 pm

If I am not allowed to own a gun I don't feel free at all

lip massholevania
10/24/14 2:11 pm

Ditto goalie31.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
10/24/14 6:39 pm

Bethanyq.. Do you ever get the feeling that the ONLY right they care about is the right to have a gun?

lip massholevania
10/24/14 6:41 pm

That and freedom. Yeah that's it, fool.

lip massholevania
10/24/14 6:43 pm

Oh and perhaps changing your alias to face PLANT. Seems more appropriate.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/24/14 7:06 pm

Oh Jesus Christ lip. Yeah. You care about "freedom." What does that even mean, in your mind? It's such an overused word by so many that you're almost rendering it meaningless.

Also, way to show your violent side. Yeah, that TOTALLY makes me think

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/24/14 7:06 pm

people like you can be trusted with dangerous weapons.

lip massholevania
10/24/14 7:11 pm

Do you know what freedom is? Pitiful fool, I don't care what you think. Freedom is just that, I'm free to call you out for the libiot you are.

lip massholevania
10/24/14 7:12 pm

Oh, and the crap .gov taught me to use and deploy should keep you up at night, for the rest of your life lols, wait I'm not a libiot, your ok.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/24/14 7:36 pm

I think I understood maybe about half of what you wrote. Shame about your educational priorities.

lip massholevania
10/24/14 7:39 pm

Do you want me to use small words so you can grasp them? I understand English is hard for you.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/24/14 9:24 pm

Hmm. He appears to be using English words but he's still spouting nonsense. Must be an affliction of the brain.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
10/24/14 10:51 pm

Ya know, Lip or iip or whatever, clearly you are young. Equally clearly you are a very angry person. Words of advice: name calling and snide threatening comments about what you may or may not have learned in the Military? Not a smart tactic.

lip massholevania
10/25/14 3:23 am

Silly liberal circle jerk, faceplant, I'm neither young nor angry. Just tired of libiots spewing nonsense and drivel as accepted facts. That's all.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
10/25/14 10:27 am

No, you are an aggressively rude, deliberately provocative, immature troll. You don't really care to discuss issues - you just want to call people names.
I would say have a nice day but frankly, I don't care if you do or not.

lip massholevania
10/25/14 10:34 am

Cry me a river, you whiny spineless libiot. I realize that's redundant. I'd tell you to pound sand but you probably do it daily and find it enjoyable.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
10/25/14 1:38 pm

Lol - you are not even a very good bully Lip/iip/whatever. :). But please do keep talking, if it helps you to feel better. I can see you won't mind if I disengage from this thread.

mikeey1962 on SOH where else
10/24/14 10:20 am

Voting about guns! LOL

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Diogenes FreeMeBe
10/24/14 10:20 am

Vote until guns are needed for liberation.

MadCow True GOP
10/24/14 9:12 am

List the places in the world outside of the US that you'd want to live:
How many of them allow guns and no voting?
How many allow guns and voting?
How many allow voting but no guns?

It sorts itself out pretty quickly.

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RedHale Texas
10/24/14 4:16 pm

Anywhere else I'd want to live has both. Having one or the other is a crappy situation in itself.

sojourner present
10/24/14 9:04 am

What is meant by liberating? I can't think of any oppressive dictators that have been overthrown by a vote. But in this country, I believe being able to vote on our laws is a better expression of my freedom than owning a gun.

sojourner present
10/24/14 9:05 am

Conversely there are many examples where guns/weapons have been used to take away others freedoms yet I've seldom heard of a vote doing so.

SFLiberal
10/24/14 9:35 am

I mean which one is a better representation of freedom.

sojourner present
10/24/14 9:35 am

With that in mind, voting, absolutely hands down!

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/24/14 10:25 am

I can think of a vote that took away freedom. Colorado's amendment 2 in 1992 made discrimination against gay people constitutionally protected. Fortunately SCOTUS slapped it down pretty quickly. We had a better court back then.

sojourner present
10/24/14 10:32 am

I was considering lgbt laws when I wrote. Other than that particular vote, most of the anti lgbt laws didn't actually take away any freedoms because those freedoms have yet to be given to the lgbt community. I believe they should have those freedoms!

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
10/24/14 8:41 am

If voting made a difference it'd be illegal. This illusion you have about voting is just a ploy to keep you docile and obedient, to play this game of "dur well we get to pick em so it must be ok." What a crock.

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SFLiberal
10/24/14 8:47 am

It's not that voting is ineffective, it's just that we need to get big money out of politics so candidates can't buy elections. Place caps on donations and campaign spending and you've already solved a huge problem.

lip massholevania
10/24/14 2:12 pm

Yes indeed let's limit free speach.

ScrewU Gone
10/24/14 2:58 pm

Let's at least stop the democrats using unions to launder campaign contributions.

SFLiberal
10/24/14 9:15 pm

Money isn't speech. It's an inanimate object.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
10/25/14 2:28 am

you really think youll be able to do that? even if its done behind the scenes it will happen in the end.

lip massholevania
10/25/14 3:25 am

Sf liberal, I can give money to whom ever I want. You have no right to restrict me.

2katz I live in Nebraska
10/24/14 8:27 am

I shoot my gun personally and know where the bullet goes. But if you get your paws on my mail-in or hijack my electronic ballot, I really have nothing.

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redsox95 New England
10/24/14 8:08 am

The latter will always ensure the former.

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bethanyq Ess Eff
10/24/14 10:26 am

For whoever has the most guns, anyway.

lip massholevania
10/24/14 2:12 pm

Indeed. That's why we call ya a sheep.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/24/14 2:58 pm

Me personally or just anyone who disagrees with you?

lip massholevania
10/24/14 3:43 pm

Those that beat their swords to plows, will plow for those that don't.

suppressedID That is my secret Cap
10/24/14 8:03 am

Most of the gun-toting world would love to have our ability to vote.

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SFLiberal
10/24/14 8:04 am

Does RebelFury follow you?

suppressedID That is my secret Cap
10/24/14 8:06 am

No. Rebel blocked me LONG ago. He doesn't seem to like ideas other than his own.

I can't say I miss the threats and cursing, though.

SFLiberal
10/24/14 8:08 am

Thanks for sharing the poll. This is somewhat of a rebuttal to his recent poll about voter IDs and gun licenses.

kscott516 EB rules
10/24/14 8:09 am

North Koreans have the right to vote. Some good that does.

SFLiberal
10/24/14 8:10 am

Guns wouldn't do them any good either, kscott.

kscott516 EB rules
10/24/14 8:14 am

Are you sure about that? Maybe not under the state-control they have now but if they knew what freedom was like or what they really don't know about their leader things might be very different.

SFLiberal
10/24/14 8:19 am

Whats a gun going to do?

kscott516 EB rules
10/24/14 8:28 am

If I have to explain that...

SFLiberal
10/24/14 8:31 am

Please explain it.

Arananthi Literal Ninja
10/24/14 8:35 am

Yeah, here's the thing about guns: the government has more of them, bigger of them, more people willing to use them, and more social support for using them than you do. If the gov't wants you dead, you dead, and no amount of 'arms' will help you.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
10/24/14 8:43 am

1. No I didn't, you popped up in my feed.
2. I love this "echo chamber" accusation, there are LOTS of people who follow me who I don't agree with, SFconservaliberal being one of them.
3. Threats? Come on now.

kscott516 EB rules
10/24/14 8:50 am

Really? How well did that work for Russia against the Mujahideen? The US in Iraq and Afghanistan?

SFLiberal
10/24/14 8:51 am

To be fair, I do like your polls, rebel. They're very...creative. And once every blue moon you see the light at the end of the anarchy tunnel and actually agree with me.

kscott516 EB rules
10/24/14 8:53 am

So? How's that right to vote working out for North Koreans?

suppressedID That is my secret Cap
10/24/14 8:55 am

Hey, Rebel! I'm willing to give it a go again.
Thanks for unblocking. :-)

SFLiberal
10/24/14 9:00 am

North Korea is a dictatorship, so obviously neither a vote nor a gun will help them.

kscott516 EB rules
10/24/14 9:07 am

We know voting won't but guns might. Depends on how many defectors in the military there would be combined with how many would fight against the govt.