A man is legally carrying a concealed weapon daily as he takes his daughters to school. A neighbor puts up a sign announcing that fact to everyone who happens by. He asks her to stop, & cites his 2nd A. rights; she cites her 1st A. rights. Who wins?
I would be inclined to buy a very nice lighted sign big enough to be seen from both sides of the street saying that "I am a gun free zone. My neighbor is a gun carrier" with a big arrow pointing to my house. Then offer it to her free installed.
Neither wins. Guy can keep CCing to the school, and the other person can keep displaying the sign.
I mean they both can do what they want...
It's not like the person with the sign is attempting to stop the person from carrying the gun. They're just pointing it out.
Actually, that IS her ultimate goal.
You are making assumptions about her goal. For now, what she is doing is not wrong. Even if she was wanting to get the person to stop carrying the gun, she'd be in the right as long as the person is not a part of any militia.
No assumptions that is her Stated Goal.
I'm not even going to address your other comment as you are obviously not well versed on this subject.
Fine, I don't really care.
I'd have no problem if someone pointed out that I legally carried.
When I carry I usually open carry anyway. Even when I am unarmed people usually assume that I have a gun on my belt.
Torfin, just out of curiosity, how common is it to carry where you live?
Springfield Missouri. It is not uncommon for folks to open carry.
Is there a specific way you deal with cops? On the off chance that you have an encounter with them.
I remain respectful and keep my hands in plain sight. The last time we had a Deputy out was on Independence day. We had called to report suspicious trespassers. My neighbor and I were both armed openly.
Why cannot they both win. He gets the right to Carrie she gets the right to tell people.
As long as Stephen King isn't involved...
The neighbor pointing out he carries a concealed weapon doesn't infringe on his right to legally own and possess a weapon. 1st amendment protects from govt retaliation. No govt involved here. 1st amendment wins.
Both. Personally, I wouldn't care of someone threw a fit because I carry a gun. Unless their hysterics caused someone to get hurt.
I guess he didn't conceal well enough.
He's minding his own business. She isn't minding hers
Neither amendment even applies here.
That's true. Neither amendment applies, because there are no government activities or entities involved. Just two private citizens.
I voted for "her", but if I passed by that sign, Id think the "he" is cool and the "her" is a weirdo.
Both. He keeps carrying, and she keeps her sign up
That's what I said to my wife, but the question is more supposed to be "does he have the right to make her take the sign down." I agree that neither's right is violated if the situation simply continues as-is, though.
To answer that question, no, I don't believe he has the right to make her take it down
But he has the right to call her an asshole
Why would he have the right to make her take the sign down? Based on what?
Is this a true story?
Never mind. I saw the article.
Which amendment wins? Both. No need to choose here.
But the neighbor is definitely being a prick.
She is endangering him by making this announcement.
Of course he could put up his own sign:
My neighbor does not own a gun. I do! You do the math.
I can't see how she is endangering him, but I love your sign idea. He should definitely do that!
Came here to say that. :)
I would support his dueling signs.
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She is not endangering him. I don't see how. But, the competing sign would endanger her.
The there are several ways it endangers him and his family.
It marks him as a target for anyone who would be participating in a nefarious activity: Take this guy out first!
It points him out as a person who might have expensive items in his home
that would be worth the risk to steal for those more dangerous felons.
It could make his family targets for retaliation from those more radical of the left that are anti-gun.
This situation hampers his ability to protect his family. He already feels the need to escort his child(ren) personally. Sounds like a less than ideal area to begin with.
Torfin, I can see your point about attracting attention from anti-gun folks (although I doubt they are a physical threat). If it reaches that point I'd say the neighbor is fermenting harassment and should be forced to desist (don't ask me how).
Most likely it would require a lawsuit. A Civil suit can do what a criminal charge cannot sometimes.
Torfin, I see your points about how the sign might endanger him. However, don't read "bad neighborhood,"
into the fact that he walks his children to school. I live in a very pleasant middle class neighborhood. When school let's out, large numbers ...
... of parents line up in cars and walk up in person, to take their kids home. After the parents and the school busses, there are almost no children walking home from school by themselves. When I went to elementary school, I always walked myself ...
... home. For whatever reasons, tunes have changed. Whether there is more real danger OR just more perception of danger OR more awareness OR different parenting styles ... I don't know.
For example, our neighbor has a boy in elementary school, easy walking distance. His grandmother picks him up from school every day. Most parents take that for granted, these days. I live in a low crime neighborhood. Low, as in essentially zero!
He has a right to conceal carry. She does not have a right to make it known.
In fact, let me be more clear on that: there is absolutely nothing, legally or otherwise, about getting a concealed carry permit that gives you any form of right to have others not know you have a concealed carry permit, or even that you're armed.
The only thing a concealed carry permit does is allow you to carry a gun without showing it off. If someone knows you have that gun, there is nothing about your permit that keeps them from telling everyone around you.
Heck, newspapers have published maps detailing where people who have concealed carry permits live. It's literally a matter of public record in 22 states. Concealed carry certainly isn't a *Constitutional* right (tinyurl.com/qz4pxtk).
Meanwhile, the law makes it perfectly clear that you have no liability for publishing true, publicly-available information -- which, if he had his gun out and visible on the sidewalk (which he did), this totally is.
The whole purpose behind CONCEAL CARRY is not to alarm people who have an aversion or fear of guns. What this lady is doing is bringing fear to those people. It's that right in your opinion? I would just as soon OPEN CARRY if it doesn't matter.
Glock, you are saying it's not "right" for her to do it, in what I take to be a moral or ethical sense. I agree with that. But, this poll is more about legal rights. Legally, she can put up the sign. She shouldn't, but legally, she can.
If she had the right to notify everyone he's armed, he gets to return the favor by notifying everyone she is unarmed.
That is fair play.
Fully agreed, actually.
Neither are really involved, but it looks like she's guilty of harassment and perhaps stalking. The victim should press charges if it continues and should file a civil suit for any damages he incurs as a result.
After reading the article, it looks like crazy lady needs to check herself into a ward, also.
Stalking? For putting a sign up on her property using a picture she took from her property? That's ridiculous.
Was he on her property?
He was on public property (look at the picture -- his car is parked on the street; he is on the sidewalk.)
What's your point?
True story: rt.com/usa/197888-rochester-concealed-carry-sign/
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