Does our right to bear arms come from G-d (or is inherent to us as humans for the atheist crowd), or does it come from government?
It comes from the Constitution? So then it comes from government?
“The power of the Constitution will always be in the people.”
So is the right to bear arms to defend oneself against tyranny from government or another individual a right only a right in the US, or do the people of the Congo also have that right (despite it not being recognized by their government)?
Congo? You lost me..
There is no constitutional right to bear arms and they have a tyrannical Government. It’s just an example. Do they have the right despite it not being recognized by their government?
Not if the Congo government says “no guns”.
The people are at the mercy of the government.
So when the Congo government begins mass genocide, they don’t have the right to live?
You can start running guns!
Doesn’t answer the question.
The Congo is not on my to do list.
You handle. Period
The “right” to protect your self, family, and property is human nature. How you do so (guns) is preference. However, you must acknowledge the rules and conditions in which is required to be a part of a society. The government can and does take away “rights”, no matter how morally wrong or right it is, that’s reality. The constitution, which so many gun owners use as a basis for their bare arm rights, was created to be changed for the betterment of the people as time and society changes. It has been changed several times and will likely be changed again possibly infringing on your perceived rights. Today we are too lazy to enact any real change and instead bicker amongst ourselves. If gun owners were so passionate about their rights, they’d move together to change the 2nd amendment to specifically protect their rights instead of going on such a broad changeable scope.
So many incorrect votes, thanks to the Government Indoctrination Centers we call Public Schools.
“ENDOWED BY [OUR] CREATOR WITH CERTAIN UNAILENABLE RIGHTS.”
I would not argue for a divine origin of rights, rather a natural origin born from from being self aware and intelligent creatures. Either way, government does not grant or take away rights, it only chooses to recognize them or not to.
Gun rights are human rights.
The gov’t doesn’t create rights.
Really, it comes down to what a community or society decides. And in this society, we dictate to our government who gets what rights. This is why various societies have different rights than the ones we allow. You can argue about the consequences of a society who dictates their own rights and morals, but it's ultimately the way it goes from society to society and group to group. Even if you believe God dictates rights, but isn't still you and the community who agrees that this is true? You could just as easily believe that another set of beliefs and rights are appropriate by just an attitude change. Truth doesn't matter, it's what we as a group of people decided was right, whether explicitly or implicitly.
By default, everything else is an inherent right.
The Constitution lists what the government can do. The Bill of Rights is an appendix on the Constitution explicitly listing rights which the government cannot curtail, so that there wouldn't be wrangled discussion about it. (Does it say, does it mean, what about...?)
Hence, If it is in the bill of Rights, it is doubly said that the right is not from govt and said that the right candidate new from God.
An argument can be made: the right is declared as given by God in a government document; hence is it government declared?
No. That would be like saying because the number 3 follows 2 in the enumeration of sections in a government document, that the govt and not natural language or math says that 3 follows 2.
It’s an extension of our right to protect ourselves, and that is natural to all human beings, regardless of what the government says.
The right to defend us is natural, however it is taken to extremes and out of the limits of how to do so. As for firearms specifically humans only needed guns once they were invented. Once a new weapon (threat) was around that gave us the need for them so we could protect ourselves with equal defense.
That's my take, and just an estimated guess. I am not an expert on any of this stuff. So please forgive me.
Jesus wants you to buy an AR-15
You can’t believe that. If you did, you couldn’t believe in the notion of Constitutional Carry or the 2A as a whole.
So Derek, you believe it’s a G-d given right?
Well your rights can be taken away at anytime by the government. For instance get convicted of a crime, you lose some of those rights is just one instance. If those rights were from some god, everyone would have them and not just Americans
That’s not true. Despite Hitler executing Jews, they still had the right to live. Just because their government was ignoring that right doesn’t mean they didn’t have it.
And criminals should get their rights returned once they have done their time.
There's no such thing as a 'right' in an objective sense. Everything is just a privilege that we as a people have decided to make contingency free in an effort to shape the society we want. The list can be added to or removed from at any time.
So, the government can decide just to kill you for fun, because you don’t actually have a right to live?
Um, it would not be the first time our government killed civilians, or generally does what it wants.
Derek, yes, that is correct.
I said inherent because it's the right to own weapons and to use them when needed. The right to own weapons is inherent because it is the most useful method of protecting ourselves which is inherent. If humanity hadn't spent the last few millennia creating better and better weapons for survival, then I don't think it'd be an inherent right.
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We made it up
The government and it can be taken away without warning if people don't stand up for themselves.
Government. How would you have an inherent right to a manufactured product? Did people have the right to guns before guns existed?
It’s the right to self-defense. The arm is the means of defending oneself against all enemies.
Precisely. No right comes from some agency of force.
Self-ownership. No one else owns you and, as such, has no one else has any right to interfere with your ownership of your own property.
Our "rights" come from the founders of our nation. The gods had no say.
If they are inherent why do we have to write them down in specific language and have governments guarantee them?
Because individuals are so different ...
Yes that's certainly the only group who has ever done that ...
The Texas shooting proves that ANTIFA is the only group that has ever advocated that, huh?
Ok, all that does is prove that they are a group that advocates violence, which I have not argued against. Does not prove they are the only group which is my argument.
Unless you belong to a group of people who do, which throughout human history has been all over the place.
People from governments so that they can protect themselves from other groups of people who want to cause them harm.
Wayyyyyyy more people are murdered by other individual people in the US than by the government.
ANTIFA being a perfect example, they are a non governmental group that clearly doesn't care about some peoples rights.
Also said in the US. Yes, ANTIFA has an ideology, they still aren't the government ...
Governments are groups of people as I stated before. It took another group of governments to stop the communist governments, correct?
Government issues charges based upon rights violations, are you saying you agree that government is the one we look to for rights?
Further, you plan on charging communism?
Finally, the doctors of the world fought hard to eradicate smallpox and the only living specimens are essentially in jail.
For the plague we figured out how it was spread and changed parts of society so that we largely don't have to deal with it anymore.
But people are still killing other people so that is likely to be a much tougher problem, it has been fun. Good day to you.
I don't and never said I would, you brought up the charge argument.
I do find it funny that you say governments kill and not other people by and large, but then want another government to charge other people that did the killing in order to enforce the rights of the dead people.
Not sure where on earth you got that, but hey, fiction can be fun.
Those are all people who mostly ordered other people to kill other people they didn't kill many themselves.
However. I'm sure your remedy is to charge them, which takes governments, as I stated before a group of governments confronted some them, others were confronted by other groups of people. Those governments did not give rights to their people, which is precisely my point.
Didn't deflect anything ...
Oh ok, here lets put my thinking cap on, oh yes I'm feeling something now ...
As I stated before they ordered people to kill others. Maybe you perhaps missed that ...
Now, is, "I was following orders" a valid excuse for killing people, think hard now
Do you come out of the chute with a gun?
My hands are registered as a lethal weapon, so yes.
It doesn't destroy the healthcare argument at all. Rights are whatever we decide we want them to be. If we decide to make healthcare one then it will be one.
I've told you that before. I know you're slow on the uptake but geez...
There are no inherent rights. Arguing that you have an inherent right to a manufactured product doesn't even make sense.
Typical. Leftists don't understand the concept of rights and don't dare learn it, otherwise they wouldn't be leftists.
That’s constructive. 😐
I thought so too. We agree.
He's getting veeeerry sleeeepy.
Seeing as though god is likely fictional, the government.
I included a provision for atheists.... which you ignored.
Rights are inherent to our existence. Groups such as governments just shouldn’t violate them or be able to violate them.