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DerekWills November 9th, 2017 4:19pm

Does our right to bear arms come from G-d (or is inherent to us as humans for the atheist crowd), or does it come from government?

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DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/13/17 4:23 pm

It comes from the Constitution? So then it comes from government?

Jazzy5 USA
11/14/17 5:19 am

“The power of the Constitution will always be in the people.”
George Washington

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/14/17 6:58 am

So is the right to bear arms to defend oneself against tyranny from government or another individual a right only a right in the US, or do the people of the Congo also have that right (despite it not being recognized by their government)?

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/14/17 8:55 am

There is no constitutional right to bear arms and they have a tyrannical Government. It’s just an example. Do they have the right despite it not being recognized by their government?

Jazzy5 USA
11/14/17 1:47 pm

Not if the Congo government says “no guns”.
The people are at the mercy of the government.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/14/17 2:17 pm

So when the Congo government begins mass genocide, they don’t have the right to live?

Jazzy5 USA
11/14/17 4:15 pm

You can start running guns!

Jazzy5 USA
11/15/17 6:07 am

The Congo is not on my to do list.
You handle. Period

Ducttape
11/10/17 11:56 am

The “right” to protect your self, family, and property is human nature. How you do so (guns) is preference. However, you must acknowledge the rules and conditions in which is required to be a part of a society. The government can and does take away “rights”, no matter how morally wrong or right it is, that’s reality. The constitution, which so many gun owners use as a basis for their bare arm rights, was created to be changed for the betterment of the people as time and society changes. It has been changed several times and will likely be changed again possibly infringing on your perceived rights. Today we are too lazy to enact any real change and instead bicker amongst ourselves. If gun owners were so passionate about their rights, they’d move together to change the 2nd amendment to specifically protect their rights instead of going on such a broad changeable scope.

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
11/10/17 3:06 am

So many incorrect votes, thanks to the Government Indoctrination Centers we call Public Schools.
“ENDOWED BY [OUR] CREATOR WITH CERTAIN UNAILENABLE RIGHTS.”

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Mackinaw Wolverine State, est.1837
11/10/17 12:55 am

I would not argue for a divine origin of rights, rather a natural origin born from from being self aware and intelligent creatures. Either way, government does not grant or take away rights, it only chooses to recognize them or not to.

Gun rights are human rights.

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thebarr
11/09/17 5:48 pm

The gov’t doesn’t create rights.

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Maynard Londor
11/09/17 4:50 pm

Really, it comes down to what a community or society decides. And in this society, we dictate to our government who gets what rights. This is why various societies have different rights than the ones we allow. You can argue about the consequences of a society who dictates their own rights and morals, but it's ultimately the way it goes from society to society and group to group. Even if you believe God dictates rights, but isn't still you and the community who agrees that this is true? You could just as easily believe that another set of beliefs and rights are appropriate by just an attitude change. Truth doesn't matter, it's what we as a group of people decided was right, whether explicitly or implicitly.

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theNobamist Silicon Valley
11/09/17 3:20 pm

By default, everything else is an inherent right.
The Constitution lists what the government can do. The Bill of Rights is an appendix on the Constitution explicitly listing rights which the government cannot curtail, so that there wouldn't be wrangled discussion about it. (Does it say, does it mean, what about...?)
Hence, If it is in the bill of Rights, it is doubly said that the right is not from govt and said that the right candidate new from God.

An argument can be made: the right is declared as given by God in a government document; hence is it government declared?
No. That would be like saying because the number 3 follows 2 in the enumeration of sections in a government document, that the govt and not natural language or math says that 3 follows 2.

MrMilkdud
11/09/17 3:04 pm

It’s an extension of our right to protect ourselves, and that is natural to all human beings, regardless of what the government says.

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Tariq88 Utah
11/09/17 1:46 pm

The right to defend us is natural, however it is taken to extremes and out of the limits of how to do so. As for firearms specifically humans only needed guns once they were invented. Once a new weapon (threat) was around that gave us the need for them so we could protect ourselves with equal defense.

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Tariq88 Utah
11/09/17 1:47 pm

That's my take, and just an estimated guess. I am not an expert on any of this stuff. So please forgive me.

ItsYourBoy Roman Empire
11/09/17 12:48 pm

Jesus wants you to buy an AR-15

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DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/09/17 12:46 pm

You can’t believe that. If you did, you couldn’t believe in the notion of Constitutional Carry or the 2A as a whole.

voc I am...what I am
11/09/17 1:01 pm

So Derek, you believe it’s a G-d given right?

DunkinFrunk Austin area, Texas
11/09/17 2:48 pm

Well your rights can be taken away at anytime by the government. For instance get convicted of a crime, you lose some of those rights is just one instance. If those rights were from some god, everyone would have them and not just Americans

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/09/17 3:15 pm

That’s not true. Despite Hitler executing Jews, they still had the right to live. Just because their government was ignoring that right doesn’t mean they didn’t have it.

And criminals should get their rights returned once they have done their time.

ZaQ777 Pittsburgh
11/09/17 12:23 pm

There's no such thing as a 'right' in an objective sense. Everything is just a privilege that we as a people have decided to make contingency free in an effort to shape the society we want. The list can be added to or removed from at any time.

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DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/09/17 12:43 pm

So, the government can decide just to kill you for fun, because you don’t actually have a right to live?

krayzewolf New Hampshire
11/09/17 5:03 pm

Um, it would not be the first time our government killed civilians, or generally does what it wants.

ZaQ777 Pittsburgh
11/09/17 5:06 pm

Derek, yes, that is correct.

makem Chinese Xinjiang Camp
11/09/17 11:26 am

I said inherent because it's the right to own weapons and to use them when needed. The right to own weapons is inherent because it is the most useful method of protecting ourselves which is inherent. If humanity hadn't spent the last few millennia creating better and better weapons for survival, then I don't think it'd be an inherent right.

Fact FL
11/09/17 10:57 am

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swervin Maryland
11/09/17 10:36 am

The government and it can be taken away without warning if people don't stand up for themselves.

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thatguy2 We tried to warn you
11/09/17 10:20 am

Government. How would you have an inherent right to a manufactured product? Did people have the right to guns before guns existed?

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DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/09/17 10:32 am

It’s the right to self-defense. The arm is the means of defending oneself against all enemies.

mark4
11/09/17 10:36 am

Precisely. No right comes from some agency of force.

Liberty 4,032,064
11/09/17 1:19 pm

Self-ownership. No one else owns you and, as such, has no one else has any right to interfere with your ownership of your own property.

krayzewolf New Hampshire
11/09/17 9:53 am

Our "rights" come from the founders of our nation. The gods had no say.

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sfcren Wyoming
11/09/17 9:29 am

If they are inherent why do we have to write them down in specific language and have governments guarantee them?

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Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/09/17 9:37 am

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sfcren Wyoming
11/09/17 10:04 am

Because individuals are so different ...

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/09/17 10:05 am

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sfcren Wyoming
11/09/17 10:13 am

Yes that's certainly the only group who has ever done that ...

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/09/17 10:18 am

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sfcren Wyoming
11/09/17 10:23 am

The Texas shooting proves that ANTIFA is the only group that has ever advocated that, huh?

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/09/17 10:28 am

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sfcren Wyoming
11/09/17 10:39 am

Ok, all that does is prove that they are a group that advocates violence, which I have not argued against. Does not prove they are the only group which is my argument.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/09/17 11:02 am

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sfcren Wyoming
11/09/17 11:39 am

Unless you belong to a group of people who do, which throughout human history has been all over the place.

People from governments so that they can protect themselves from other groups of people who want to cause them harm.

Wayyyyyyy more people are murdered by other individual people in the US than by the government.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/09/17 11:41 am

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sfcren Wyoming
11/09/17 11:43 am

ANTIFA being a perfect example, they are a non governmental group that clearly doesn't care about some peoples rights.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/09/17 11:50 am

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sfcren Wyoming
11/09/17 11:53 am

Also said in the US. Yes, ANTIFA has an ideology, they still aren't the government ...

sfcren Wyoming
11/09/17 11:56 am

Governments are groups of people as I stated before. It took another group of governments to stop the communist governments, correct?

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/09/17 2:22 pm

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sfcren Wyoming
11/09/17 2:39 pm

Government issues charges based upon rights violations, are you saying you agree that government is the one we look to for rights?

sfcren Wyoming
11/09/17 4:03 pm

Further, you plan on charging communism?

sfcren Wyoming
11/09/17 4:29 pm

Finally, the doctors of the world fought hard to eradicate smallpox and the only living specimens are essentially in jail.

For the plague we figured out how it was spread and changed parts of society so that we largely don't have to deal with it anymore.

But people are still killing other people so that is likely to be a much tougher problem, it has been fun. Good day to you.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/09/17 4:34 pm

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sfcren Wyoming
11/09/17 5:18 pm

I don't and never said I would, you brought up the charge argument.

I do find it funny that you say governments kill and not other people by and large, but then want another government to charge other people that did the killing in order to enforce the rights of the dead people.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/09/17 5:23 pm

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sfcren Wyoming
11/09/17 6:00 pm

Not sure where on earth you got that, but hey, fiction can be fun.

Those are all people who mostly ordered other people to kill other people they didn't kill many themselves.

However. I'm sure your remedy is to charge them, which takes governments, as I stated before a group of governments confronted some them, others were confronted by other groups of people. Those governments did not give rights to their people, which is precisely my point.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/09/17 6:08 pm

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Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/10/17 4:53 am

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sfcren Wyoming
11/10/17 7:15 am

Didn't deflect anything ...

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/10/17 7:17 am

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sfcren Wyoming
11/10/17 7:35 am

Oh ok, here lets put my thinking cap on, oh yes I'm feeling something now ...

As I stated before they ordered people to kill others. Maybe you perhaps missed that ...

Now, is, "I was following orders" a valid excuse for killing people, think hard now

suppressedID suck it Kyle
11/09/17 9:26 am

Do you come out of the chute with a gun?
Then no.

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Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/09/17 9:37 am

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jaydub951 Southern California
11/09/17 9:37 am

My hands are registered as a lethal weapon, so yes.

thatguy2 We tried to warn you
11/09/17 10:17 am

It doesn't destroy the healthcare argument at all. Rights are whatever we decide we want them to be. If we decide to make healthcare one then it will be one.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/09/17 10:19 am

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thatguy2 We tried to warn you
11/09/17 10:21 am

I've told you that before. I know you're slow on the uptake but geez...

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/09/17 10:30 am

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thatguy2 We tried to warn you
11/09/17 10:37 am

There are no inherent rights. Arguing that you have an inherent right to a manufactured product doesn't even make sense.

mark4
11/09/17 10:39 am

Typical. Leftists don't understand the concept of rights and don't dare learn it, otherwise they wouldn't be leftists.

suppressedID suck it Kyle
11/09/17 10:54 am

That’s constructive. 😐

mark4
11/09/17 10:59 am

I thought so too. We agree.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/09/17 11:01 am

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mark4
11/09/17 11:05 am

He's getting veeeerry sleeeepy.

PrinceOberyn Here I am Here I Remain
11/09/17 9:24 am

Seeing as though god is likely fictional, the government.

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DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/09/17 10:33 am

I included a provision for atheists.... which you ignored.

Liberty 4,032,064
11/09/17 9:24 am

Rights are inherent to our existence. Groups such as governments just shouldn’t violate them or be able to violate them.

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