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DailyAtheist October 29th, 2013 3:26am

New Pennsylvania bill requires schools to display "In God we trust" on a plaque outside of every school. This is an obvious violation of the separation of church and state, right?

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susanr Colorado
10/28/13 8:29 pm

That seems destined for a trip to court will it will be declared unconstitutional. What the hell were they thinking?

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susanr Colorado
10/28/13 9:07 pm

That would seem to argue *against* going to the bother & expense of putting a plaque outside every school, then.

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citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/28/13 9:16 pm

Yeah, violations of the Bill of Rights is such a small thing.

Would your reaction be the same if the perceived violation were something you felt infringed on your 2nd Amendment rights?

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DailyAtheist Religious polls
10/28/13 8:39 pm

I always use this argument. What if instead of "God", it said "Satan". Would you want YOUR kids seeing "In Satan we trust" every time s/he walked into their school?

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Zod Above Pugetropolis
10/28/13 9:38 pm

Hopefully this will run its course through the courts and get that BS off my money too.

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aj1545 Cat Lady
10/28/13 8:29 pm

I was worried when I got to required, what's the reasoning there?

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FollowYourBliss Never Happy, Ever After
10/28/13 9:46 pm

What a complete waste of money, to satisfy a deranged notion that one groups belief in a god (out of 8000 that are believed on this planet) is somehow good for everybody. Leave your religion at home and focus on giving our kids a real and tangible...

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veritas1 Panda
10/28/13 9:04 pm

The objectively correct answer is yes.

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Wert A picture of my junk
10/28/13 9:08 pm

The SCOTUS has ruled on at least 20 or so cases based on separation of church and state just since the 1940s. I think it's pretty well established.

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Posco BBQ Enthusiast
10/28/13 8:28 pm

How would it not be?

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Wert A picture of my junk
10/28/13 8:53 pm

I propose that all post offices display on a plaque at the entrance which reads "In Zod we trust". Think it will pass?

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Skarface Banned
10/28/13 8:40 pm

Dammit Pennsylvania, why do you have to make me so ashamed of being from you?

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FollowYourBliss Never Happy, Ever After
10/28/13 9:47 pm

education, and not some belief stoked in fantasy and superstition.

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Wert A picture of my junk
10/28/13 9:03 pm

Did anyone ask God if he wants it?

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Posco BBQ Enthusiast
10/28/13 8:52 pm

It's obvious that this is a violation of the separation of church and state.

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citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/28/13 9:39 pm

God is inherently religious. Stating ones trust in god in inherently religious.

The government is barred in the First Amendment from making a law "that respecting an establishment of religion."

It's not about force. It's about the government...

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citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/28/13 9:40 pm

...being barred from making exactly these kinda of statements.

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EnderWiggin So disillusioned...
10/28/13 9:48 pm

I pledge allegiance to Tony
And the United Community of SoH'ers.
And to the stances for which they stand.
One Conglomeration.
Under Zod.
With flippancy and serenity for all.

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Mattwall1
10/28/13 9:51 pm

Someone get this to tony, NOW

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Mattwall1
10/28/13 9:03 pm

I'm not going to touch that

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OKOkie Oklahoma
10/28/13 8:45 pm

No I wouldn't, but if it was the national motto it wouldn't be unconstitutional for the school to do that. You can say the motto is unconstitutional and fight it that way but the use of it by the school isn't while it is still the national motto...

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Posco BBQ Enthusiast
10/28/13 8:45 pm

Slavery was deemed constitutional at one point, that doesn't mean it was ok. I don't think the government should be able push religion on people, especially children.

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DailyAtheist Religious polls
10/28/13 8:48 pm

It is not constitutional. The state or Supreme Court will defiantly shut it down.

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BeachSt Coastal Virginia
10/28/13 9:13 pm

Bibles and guns..

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OKOkie Oklahoma
10/28/13 8:51 pm

How could they determine the schools use of it unconstitutional by separation of church and state without deeming the national motto unconstitutional? I could see them using the situation to fight the constitutionality of the motto but that's it

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Mattwall1
10/28/13 8:53 pm

I don't think zod wants that

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Posco BBQ Enthusiast
10/28/13 9:41 pm

I'm pretty sure that's a country song.

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DailyAtheist Religious polls
10/28/13 8:32 pm

They are using the excuse that it is patriotic not religious because "In God we trust" is our national motto.

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citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/28/13 9:21 pm

...by Thomas Jefferson to (I think) Danbury Baptist Church.

The actual clauses, though, are known as the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause, both found in the First Amendment.

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Mattwall1
10/28/13 9:01 pm

I don't think it does either, I just have always felt e Pluribus Unum represented the us better, not to mention it sounds better, at least IMO

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citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/28/13 9:22 pm

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

According to Jefferson and other founders and many Supreme Court rulings over the years, these two clauses create a "wall...

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citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/28/13 9:23 pm

...of separation between church and state," hence the naming of this basic concept of the Constitution.

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susanr Colorado
10/28/13 9:24 pm

whenever asked). But *adding* something that seems clearly wrong is just... really *wrong* in my opinion.

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2katz I live in Nebraska
10/28/13 9:05 pm

Our nation has so many bigger issues to have hissyfits about.

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citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/28/13 9:27 pm

So, your argument is that God isn't religious?

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citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/28/13 9:31 pm

What, exactly, is what "happened in England" that they were trying to prevent?

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KudosToYou California
10/28/13 9:34 pm

These kind of people are positively nuts. They're the same kind of people that are responsible for the Creation Museum. Give an inch and they'll take a mile.

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Mattwall1
10/28/13 8:56 pm

Directly? No. In spirit? Yes. Does this cross that line? I'm not sure, although I don't think it should be done and favor e Pluribus Unum

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BeachSt Coastal Virginia
10/28/13 9:43 pm

Haha, I wouldn't doubt it.

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citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/28/13 9:19 pm

There are two spots, but the actual wording is too long to easily cite in every reference, hence the concept was shortened and called "separation of church and state". It's a concept, not a direct quotes from the BoR. It is a direct quote...

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citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/28/13 9:49 pm

OK, the 1st Amendment was written to disallow the government from establishing a state religion. It requires that the state stay neutral in religious matters. Neutrality negates making overtly religious statements that put one religion...

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citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/28/13 9:50 pm

...or subset of religions above any other religion or non-religion.

The Free Exercise Clause is what protects an individuals liberty to practice your religion freely and not be bound by the religious practice of others.

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citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/28/13 9:51 pm

Together, along with the dictate that there be no religious tests for office, create a wall of separation between church and state.

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susanr Colorado
10/28/13 9:23 pm

I pretty much believe in the wisdom of "pick your battles." *Removing* things like "In God We Trust" from our money, & "under God" from the Pledge seem like more trouble that they're worth at present (but I'll give my negative opinion of them

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citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/28/13 9:52 pm

The motto is not technically unconstitutional. But, this act, it passed, might call it into question. It was allowed based on tradition. If it's found that people are using this motto to promote one religion over another, then the motto will...

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citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/28/13 9:53 pm

...be reevaluated and likely found to have prejudicial value and therefor violate the Establishment Clause. It will not pass must with the Lemon Test.

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citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/28/13 9:54 pm

See, I'm offering my points. What evidence or support or analysis do you have? I would like to hear it.

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citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/28/13 9:58 pm

No. You didn't give points. You simply asserted what you thought about the 1st Amendment. That's not offering analysis or evidence or anything of any value.

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