Show of Hands

But why?

The law of mass conservation.

That unfortunately doesn’t really explain much

Lol. Ok, from Google: The law of conservation of mass states that mass cannot be created or destroyed in a closed system, so the total mass of the reactants must equal the total mass of the products in any chemical reaction. This principle, established by Antoine Lavoisier, means that atoms are simply rearranged during a chemical reaction, and their total mass remains constant over time.

So either this law of physics is wrong or there is a supernatural force that can break this law of physics. There is no 3rd option where physics laws control the universe now but not the creation of the universe.

Or, the 3rd option is that the energy has simply always existed. And then the 4th option, and the more correct option, is that we don’t know where the energy of the universe came from, but that we know it at least existed during the big bang.

Cause the truth simply is, that no one actually knows where the energy of the universe came from. Maybe it has always existed, maybe there is some extra-universal pool of energy to draw from, maybe there’s a deity that placed all of the energy for the big bang, or maybe we live in a simulation. No one actually knows.

But what we do know is that the evidence points to billions of years ago, the energy of the universe was condensed into a infinitely dense state, and then something caused this state to expand rapidly, what we call the big bang.

Which sounds exactly like what would happen when The Almighty speaks for the first time and says “Let there be Light”.

But it also sounds like the completely natural big bang.

With mass that had to have come from somewhere or someone.

So would a god. That’s the thing, we know so little about where the energy actually came from that we can’t really make any conclusions on it, and just saying it came from a god doesn’t really help either. Did a god make it? Well where did the god come from? He always existed is your answer, so why couldn’t the energy have always existed?

It’s an endless rabbit hole of infinite “well where did this one come from?” And we never actually an answer.

No it’s actually not an endless rabbit hole since we are talking about Yes supernatural force or No not supernatural force. It is a binary option because mass does not come from nothing. If you don’t understand that basic part of science, I understand how you are confused. I am not.

Because you are using special pleading to say “well my explanation has to be the only one that doesn’t need a cause because I said so” when that’s just not how that works. Why couldn’t an energy have a supernatural “always existing and never needed a creator” property like your god does, or why does your god not need a creator like energy does. That’s the problem, you are unjustifiably saying god doesn’t require a creator but energy does when the reality is there is no way to know if energy ever had a starting point or if it simply always existed.

You can think that.

But then you can always follow that up the chain. Its paradoxical. If there has to be a creator of the universe. Who created the creator? And then who created THAT creator. And so on.

At the same time...if it is random, that would make it even more incredible, no?

Yes, but in a literal sense. That which cannot be credited.

I dont think its at all to incredible to be random. Everything we see is and has always been inevitable because of the physics that guide everything that happens in our universe. Lige exists because once something comes along in such a way as to produce more copies of itself, that thing is going to spread by nature of making more while everything else is stagnant. Life gets to be so complex because more complex things can do more and outcompete the simple things and fill differing niches.

So why don’t we see it everywhere on other planets? If it’s so easy for complex life to just spontaneously appear. Then where else is it?

“Everything we see is and has always been inevitable because of the physics that guide everything that happens in our universe.”

And why do physics exist?

Bad, I didnt say it was easy, I said it was inevitable. This is largely based on the scope of the universe we live in and the conditions of this planet. With enough rolls of the dice, you're highly likely to get an unlikely result at some point. If you roll 20 dice at the same time, it's unlikely per-roll but once every few trillion rolls you'll probably get them to all roll the same number. Your questioning seems to me akin to asking in a biography "what are the odds of someone actually having such an interesting life?" Very low, but they are the ones we focus on.

Doop, physics exist because of the way energy interacts in our universe (mass is a form of energy that we perceive as what we call physical). If your question is about what created that system of energy and interaction, I'd jump straight past to ask "if there is a creator, who created the creator?" It's an infinite paradox that we will never answer; we can only guess at it as the minute manifestations of energy we exist as.

Pipi. Did you see Avatar?

The last airbender?

Doopy, Physics exist because it just does. Physics is just the interaction between atoms. Atoms would have to interact for a universe like ours to exist, so physics has to exist as well. It doesn’t prove a god or disprove one, it just is.

What about Ray Comfort or Kent Hovind ??

Even less than them.

Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, the popes and cardinals throughout time, King Henry VIII, Ali Khamenei, I could go on...

Even less than them.

TIL Doopy would prefer to listen to the Ayatollah than listen to NDT

Doopy, keep in mind Tyson isn’t just discussing religion. He’s discussing the universe and how religion interacts with our understanding of it, and as an astrophysicist he’s definitely qualified to speak on this.

Why?

Because it’s contingent. It’s all based on “if”. Out of nothing, nothing comes.

The only ones claiming the universe came from nothing are theists.

That’s not true in ether respect.

You believe that it took blood magic to create the universe out of nothing.

Doopy, our current understand of how the universe started doesn’t say that the universe came from nothing. It says that our current universe started with the big bang, which was a dense mass of energy expanding rapidly. Before the big bang, it’s a big ol “dunno.” We don’t assume to know what happened before the big bang, but we do know that the energy that current is making up our universe existed at the big bang.

Christians are the ones who say that the universe came from nothing, with God creating the universe out of nothing but a command.

Your argument carries with it the problem of materialism that cannot deal with what science has grown into. Life is far too complex for evolution to explain it. The math has been done. There isn’t enough time. Furthermore, there’s the problem of where did the complex encoding come from.

I offered a video covering the modern science on the matter. Try it. You’ll learn a great deal.

“The problem with simply saying ‘God’ is that history is full of times when humans used divine explanations for what they didn’t yet understand.”

How is that a problem?

“Galileo is a perfect example.“

You don’t understand the story of Galileo. His evidence was insufficient. The Church was actively supporting other astronomers providing better evidence for heliocentrism, and he was placed under house arrest for public ally insulting the prince, not for his scientific work.

*publicly

I can spell words.

I'm glad you straightened that out @ Doopy, that brought back bad memories of when I was arrested in a public alley🤣🤣🤣

Mark, evolution absolutely can explain how far life has come.

Neil’s claim isn’t based upon evidence. It’s based upon imagination. That’s a big difference.

Thats not quite the question.

It’s the correct answer to your question.

The idea of a created universe carries far more scientific water these days than its denial. I’ve posted a poll showing that and nearly no one dared challenge it, and those who did engaged in silliness.

Yes, it did. Past tense.

Mark, was that a recent poll that is still open? I’d like to read what you posted.

It’s from last week but is still open.

I tried copying the link for you but that didn’t work.

Democrats hate to hear this but while Einstein studied the universe the more convinced he became that it had to be intelligent design.

Are you trying to make an argument that Einstein grew more warm to the idea of a personal god? Because i see zero evidence in that and everything that shows the opposite.

Also, why single out democrats? Christianity is shrinking in the US..

You don’t want to see the evidence.

Well thats about the laziest response I've ever read.

“why single out democrats?”

Here you are arguing against the smartest person ever to live.

Thanks, Mark, and thanks for trying. I’ve found that I can copy and paste the question that is above the map, and that way you at least know who made the poll, the date and what it’s about, to search it.

Thanks, Mark, and thanks for trying. I’ve found that I can copy and paste the question that is above the map, and that way you at least know who made the poll, the date and what it’s about, to search it.

Cud, my hubby listened to Edward Teller who came to speak in chapel to Samford University. He and Einstein worked on the Manhattan Project together and he said in that speech that Einstein definitely believed in God.

Why single out Dems? Because the majority of Republicans are Christians and the majority of Dems are not.

And you would probably be shocked to know that the director of the Human Genome Project believes in God and says that 40% of scientists today do, as well.

www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/collins.commentary/index.html

His most recent book is "The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief."

He said, “Actually, I find no conflict here, and neither apparently do the 40 percent of working scientists who claim to be believers.”

You keep repeating that lie even after I pointed it out to you.

What lie?

Dr. Francis Collins himself said "evolution by descent from a common ancestor is clearly true"

You keep referencing this guy incorrectly.

He also said "the study of DNA provides the strongest possible proof of our relatedness to all other living things"

Cud, the link I shared is an article he wrote. Please read it before commenting again. I copied and pasted those things directly from his paper.

He believes BOTH Science and a Creator.

Are you trying to say he lied in his own paper? And has written a book about things that he doesn’t believe?

No, I'm saying that you are interpreting him incorrectly. I don't disagree with him. I disagree with you.

All I’ve done is copy quotes from HIS paper. I don’t see how you can disagree with me on that.

What do you disagree with me on? Because all I’ve done is quote him.

I disagree with your interpretation of his quotes. I agree with most of what he says.

What interpretation? Are you saying he does not believe in God? I didn't interpret anything. It's straight quotes.

No im saying that he is Christian but he believes that all of life came from a common ancestor. Not adam and eve.

Maybe Adam and Eve were myths created by Hebrew philosophers that decided humans needed a reason to explain a cause for life in order to explain why every thing that exists did. Thus people agreed it would be beneficial for humans to believe in a need for why we exist if for no other reason than to make people believe life has to have a reason for creating a civil agreement to benefit each other by adopting reasons to cooperate using a “God” as a lattice to insure that people working together would justify having the needs that would encourage the growth of their fledging democracy.

Why can’t that common ancestor be Eve?

I thought your argument was that he doesn’t believe in God. 40% of scientists have no problem believing in both God and science, and Einstein was one of them.

No. And I'm not making the argument, you are. You keep saying you believe in spontaneous creation but you quote someone who doesn't even agree with you.

According to Dr. Francis Collins, all of
LIFE has a common ancestor. Humans, pigs, owls, peacocks, trout, dandelions, squid, algae, shitake mushrooms.....we are all related to a common ancestor. Through evolution.

Not Eve.

No example of speciation has ever been demonstrated after many decades of trying. Darwin today would not be a Darwinian. He was too smart to do so after the advances we’ve made in cellular biology and mathematics. He only showed species adaptivity to different environments and made a leap of faith in his ignorance.

Mark, am I correct that Darwin apologized in his later years? I do believe in adaptation, like the beavers in the Hudson River that became nocturnal because they were being wiped out by men killing them in the 1800’s.

Looking at the intricacy of DNA, I will NEVER believe that we came from tadpoles or apes. And this is what many scientists decided when they worked on the Human Genome Project.

No. Not its not.

Not its not? What does that mean?

The guy you are referencing disagrees with you. Why aren't you hearing this?

He believes in science. He also believes in God, as do 40% of scientists. I don’t understand why this is hard for you.

Many Christians believe that the Big Bang was God speaking the universe into existence. It’s not hard to figure out.