Show of HandsShow of Hands

DavesNotHere October 31st, 2013 1:20am

To all the folks who are against the ACA, do you believe that an uninsured person should be denied health care at a hospital?

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Comments: Add Comment

Diogenes FreeMeBe
10/31/13 8:27 am

No, but they never were prior to Obamacare. I don't understand your question.

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Mattwall1
10/31/13 3:56 pm

Some hospitals legally can

jms in the middle of Nowhere
10/31/13 7:07 am

I don't have health insurance. I pay cash if I need a dr. No one else is going to be on the hook for my medical bills. Why should I be denied care when I hand over my debit card to pay??

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ozzy
10/31/13 6:45 am

There won't be any healthCARE. ACA is an insurance portal designed to sell us ALL a tax for rationing for all. Ladies and gentlemen - We got the red pill, death panels, and deductibles so high that people cannot afford the care - just the premium.

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suppressedID That is my secret Cap
10/31/13 5:55 am

Economics is THE REASON for the ACA. Those exorbitant costs get passed on to everyone else, jacking up out healthcare costs.

So unless you want people dying in the streets like a Dostoevsky novel by denying coverage....

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cowboy Here and There
10/31/13 6:12 am

Economics? That's laughable.

suppressedID That is my secret Cap
10/31/13 6:15 am

Why? You like paying for other people's deferred medical problems? Especially when the expense is so much higher because they delayed care until it was a crisis?

What do you think the justification is?

Think Lovin Life
10/31/13 6:22 am

Suppressed ... but the real question is ... why are we paying for deferred health care? Why aren't the deadbeats paying for their own healthcare?

suppressedID That is my secret Cap
10/31/13 6:26 am

Ask Reagan, he signed that bill. I assumed that MUST make it anointed by God.

suppressedID That is my secret Cap
10/31/13 6:30 am

And they're not paying because healthcare has gotten so unbelievably expensive. ACA just uses natural market forces to bring the costs down.

...unless you'd prefer direct legislation of an industry, and you know how that works out.

ScrewU Gone
10/31/13 7:42 am

You've figured out how to make people without money pay for their own health care? Remarkable.

jrrob CT
10/31/13 5:39 am

No one is refused medical attention in this country. Even illegal immigrants are tended to, when hospitals know full well that they won't be paid.

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rons screw politicians
10/31/13 5:28 am

They get treated in this country. Should be 100 % to zip.

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Think Lovin Life
10/31/13 4:44 am

Dave ... the poor wording of the question will pollute the results. Should every person receive real emergency care, regardless of insurance? Yes.

Should illegal aliens and persons without insurance receive non-emergency care ... No way!

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DavesNotHere where am I
10/31/13 5:29 am

Go away. Don't knock my question because of another conversation in another poll. Goodbye.

Think Lovin Life
10/31/13 5:31 am

Sounds like someone needs a hug!

DavesNotHere where am I
10/31/13 7:28 am

Sounds like you need to change one letter in your name. N to C.

Think Lovin Life
10/31/13 7:30 am

It's ok, Davey. Just relax, and you'll make it through this thought spot.

DavesNotHere where am I
10/31/13 11:31 am

Nobody calls me Davey. Nobody. It's against the law. It will become the 28th amendment. I'm not angry not do I need to chill. I got the impression from our conversation about abortion & the death penalty that you think I'm simple minded or confused.

ozzy
10/31/13 4:33 am

And they weren't before the ACA

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cowboy Here and There
10/31/13 4:15 am

Nobody is denied healthcare at a hospital.

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Think Lovin Life
10/31/13 4:45 am

You mean at an emergency room ... plenty of people are denied healthcare, and so they should.

cowboy Here and There
10/31/13 5:15 am

At a hospital... That's what I said.

Think Lovin Life
10/31/13 5:32 am

The emergency room ... of the hospital ... is the only place where deadbeats are served by law.

cowboy Here and There
10/31/13 5:37 am

Yes, at the hospital. Are you having trouble reading this morning?

Think Lovin Life
10/31/13 5:45 am

Cowboy ... there are actually MANY departments in most hospitals, the Emergency Department is typically just one of them. Deadbeats get free care in the Emergency Department, but not in the other departments of the hospital.

cowboy Here and There
10/31/13 6:13 am

Its still part of the hospital, right? Are you just arguing, to argue, here?

Think Lovin Life
10/31/13 6:16 am

Cowboy ... take a breath! I think we are in violent agreement about the ED, but your comment was a bit sloppy, and I was only trying to clarify.

Yes, deadbeats will continue to get care in the ED, but not the rest of the hospital.

cowboy Here and There
11/01/13 11:43 am

What part of, nobody is denied healthcare, at a hospital, needs to clarified? I don't get it.

commonman1 Peace
10/31/13 4:03 am

The question should be do you think government should involved in healthcare. No.

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goalie31 OrthodoxCatholicChristian
10/31/13 3:45 am

they never are. Dr are required to help all people. (Hypocratic Oath)

Think Lovin Life
10/31/13 4:47 am

You really should check the facts ... ask the Mayo Clinic in Arizona about their acceptance of government health care. Their answer will be HELL NO because the government only pays $0.65 on the dollar for services provided.

ScrewU Gone
10/31/13 3:20 am

Life saving care only.

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Abolitionist Voice of the people
10/31/13 2:35 am

Where were the tea party when liberal extremist Ronald Reagan signed the largest healthcare mandate in history requiring all hospitals to accept anyone in ER?

ozzy
10/31/13 4:34 am

That is not accurate (OBRA 89)

Think Lovin Life
10/31/13 4:47 am

Abo ... keep the lie alive!

Abolitionist Voice of the people
10/31/13 6:07 am

any fact that you didn't agree with is a lie. That's why Romney is president & Obamacare has been repealed. And idk what that guy above you is saying but Here's a link;
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act

Think Lovin Life
10/31/13 6:13 am

The lie is that O'care is anything like the changes in history.

And in yet another attempt to obfuscate and redirect the discussion you shift left rather than addressing the question at hand.

Abolitionist Voice of the people
10/31/13 6:18 am

I was talking mandates; which isn't new for healthcare. Reagan mandated hospitals to take losers while taxpayers paid the hospital bill when they didn't pay. This was the GOP plan last year when discussing repealing ACA; just tell them to go to ER

Rosebud Ohio
10/31/13 8:56 am

Some weren't even born yet, others weren't old enough to be involved in politics... You're talking about a multi generational gap between many adults then and now.

Abolitionist Voice of the people
10/31/13 9:17 am

Rosebud, all we from conservatives is how Reagan is Jesus & how Obama is a communist, I'm highlighting a time when even "real" conservatives enacted policies that could be called communist now. Reagan is a reminder how extreme conservatives have gone

DavesNotHere where am I
10/31/13 2:30 am

In some cases they are. It's rare, but unfortunately it does happen.

comppete Las Vegas
10/30/13 10:12 pm

No, but if they go to the ER for a sniffle or hemorrhoids, they should be charged triple.

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edrewiii
10/30/13 7:27 pm

Not if they can pay cash or have a charity fund their care. Should the hospital and doctors be forced to pay for their care simply because they do not have insurance?

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fredd TrumpLand
10/30/13 8:09 pm

So, if they're unable to pay or find charitable care then let them die. That's what you're saying right?

magnum
10/30/13 9:45 pm

Yes

edrewiii
10/30/13 9:55 pm

No, we should use force to make the doctors operate for 10 hours for free, use extremely valuable resources that others can pay for, and force the hospital to pay for their care instead. Multiply that by millions of people. That's your solution?

fredd TrumpLand
10/30/13 11:18 pm

No, that's not my solution, nor is it the solution in any of the other countries with universal healthcare.

fredd TrumpLand
10/30/13 11:22 pm

There is evidence that humans cared for the sick and elderly in prehistory. Fossilized remains of elderly people have been found with no teeth, suggesting that someone chewed food then fed them.

fredd TrumpLand
10/30/13 11:27 pm

To care for our sick and vulnerable is part of human nature, but sadly not for everyone it seems.

You would prefer the sick to die because it might otherwise cost you something. Personally I find that repellent.

mim formerly 97123
10/31/13 3:50 am

Hospitals and doctors don't treat people for free… the charges for those who pay are inflated to compensate for the losses!

edrewiii
10/31/13 4:46 am

What is repulsive is that you want to force people to take care of the sick. I would simply rather have people take care of themselves (weird concept I know) or be cared for voluntarily. We are the most generous nation in the world. Force should never be an option.

fredd TrumpLand
10/31/13 3:52 pm

That's either willful misinterpretation of what I said, or you're a blinkered fool. My local GP in the UK certainly didn't work for free, they're well paid.
If you're not aware of how universal healthcare can work I suggest you educate yourself.

nightcrow44 the dark side
10/30/13 7:27 pm

That's what Medicaid and Medicare is for next person who what's to make obamacare a good thing? Please stand up...

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AngryAngel Oswego, IL
10/30/13 7:05 pm

Of course not. Just like how if I go to a dentist I wouldn't get denied because I don't have dental insurance, they just want my money. Why must you have health insurance to go to a hospital? Some people can actually pay in cash...

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smartfart Florida
10/30/13 7:03 pm

Now, working in a hospital, most of the "should" scenarios is how it works. Uninsured people are charged real costs & sent to collections when they can't pay. When $20 is a stretch to pay for an extra med, paying off a $30k bill is a little hard too.

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kscott516 EB rules
10/30/13 7:10 pm

They give fake names and addresses. So collections don't work.

smartfart Florida
10/30/13 8:50 pm

You're right. It's because "they" are ALL scoundrels & thieves.

kscott516 EB rules
10/31/13 5:39 am

Do you work in a hospital? Because I've worked in a hospital for more than 7 years and have now sold equipment to them for over 12 yrs. I've had these specific conversations with ED Directors and C-level Administrators. I'm not giving you a theory.

smartfart Florida
10/31/13 6:59 am

As my original comment says, I do work in a hospital, also for about 7 years. I'm a social worker & my bread & butter is the poor & uninsured.

smartfart Florida
10/31/13 7:00 am

This is why I find all the outrage over ACA absurd.
The problem is that the memorable people are the ones that give Mickey Mouse as a name, even if that is 1 in a hundred people. I have those too, but keep records & know they aren't the norm.

kscott516 EB rules
10/31/13 9:13 am

Poor and uninsured cane treated in a hospital for emergencies. For regular treatment and prevention there are free clinics and Medicaid.

techkak north coast
10/31/13 1:48 pm

Kscott, who qualifies for Medicaid varies from state to state . For example in Ohio , only adults with children or are legally disabled or over 65 years old qualify regardless of income. I realize the extension of Medicaid as part of ACA will...

techkak north coast
10/31/13 1:53 pm

Qualify more people but some states have decided not to extend Medicaid. ( or you have a state legislature that doesn't want it but a Governor that does and goes around the legislature to get it as has happened here in Ohio)

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 6:55 pm

I bet many could pay if they didn't smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol.

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TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 6:57 pm

Pay more easily that is. Have you ever been in a poor person's home? They're usually addicted to cigarettes and/or alcohol. They also have a cell phone, they're fat, they eat mcdonalds twice a week, and have a copy of Thor on the shelf.

smartfart Florida
10/30/13 6:59 pm

As a social worker who did home visits, I have been to MANY. ^^^^ This guy has no clue what he's talking about.

veritas1 Panda
10/30/13 7:00 pm

They're also all liberals and have jars of dead fetuses all around their luxurious abodes. Hard working republican butlers tend to their every need.
The first step in the justification of injustice is to vilify and demand the object of that injustice

veritas1 Panda
10/30/13 7:03 pm

demean*

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 7:11 pm

Actually, I visit a lot of homes of poor people, but I'm not a state worker. I find your statement unbelievable. On what part exactly do you take exception? Cell phone? McDonald's? Fat?

veritas1 Panda
10/30/13 7:14 pm

What did your Christ say about poor people and judgement and compassion? What did he say about malice and accusation?

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 7:16 pm

He didn't say to setup a big, inefficient bureaucracy to take care of the poor. Besides, you're opposed to is mixing religion and government. Shouldn't we keep our Biblical welfare directives out of government?

veritas1 Panda
10/30/13 7:18 pm

Forget government. Forget public policy. What did he say? In the context of one fallen human relating to others, what did he say? What did he say about giving to the poor? What did he say about judgement and compassion?

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 7:20 pm

Keep your religion to yourself Veritas. Everyone can interpret the Bible a thousand different ways. The issue now is ER healthcare.

veritas1 Panda
10/30/13 7:27 pm

And how does your decidedly un-Christian/Mormon demeaning of poor people relate to ER healthcare. And it's your religion, not mine. And there seems to be a disconnect between your avowal and belief.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 7:30 pm

Nothing in my religion compels me to support a government welfare program. You can't claim a disconnect because you don't know what I do in my personal life. One clue is the visits to poor homes that I mentioned above. Now back to the issue?

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 7:34 pm

Veritas. You have a perception that Christians are required by their religion to support government welfare. Why do you want Christians forcing their beliefs on others in the voting booth?

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 7:44 pm

It's really hypocritical of you. Libs howl when Christians vote against gay marriage or abortion, but now you're trying to use religion to garner support for state welfare. See any conflict there?

SFLiberal
10/30/13 7:52 pm

The only conflict here, Okie, is you trying to avoid answering veritas' question.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 7:55 pm

He's mistaken in thinking that my religion compels me to support state welfare. Why does he want me to insert religion into politics? I thought you libs were against that. You can stall on that point as a debate technique if you want.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 7:56 pm

....but my own personal interpretation of religion as compared to his isn't the issue. ER healthcare is the issue.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 7:57 pm

Again, most welfare recipients are fat, addicted, use cell phones, and saw a blockbuster movie more recently than they've worked for an honest wage.

veritas1 Panda
10/30/13 8:40 pm

You are the only person who has even mentioned the government or public policy. In fact, I explicitly said I would ignore this things. Instead you continue straw manning me as proposing an argument I explicitly avoided.

veritas1 Panda
10/30/13 8:41 pm

Why did your Christ say about those things? And now you've changed your terminology. You've gone from "poor people" to "welfare recipients" to further obfuscate.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 8:43 pm

You're still trying to make this about religion. You introduced that. My original posts said nothing of it. If you want to discuss religion then create another poll or at least start another thread in this poll.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 8:45 pm

So, what part is wrong again? Fat? Addicted? Mcdonalds? Lol.

SFLiberal
10/30/13 8:50 pm

Okie, veritas is asking you that question because your view of poor people and welfare recipients doesn't equate with the morals set by your religion.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 8:54 pm

That's your judgement, not mine. It doesn't matter because it's not Germaine to the issue of ER healthcare. What does my religion have to do with it?

SFLiberal
10/30/13 8:56 pm

Because religion tends to heavily influence how you view things.

veritas1 Panda
10/30/13 8:59 pm

Very simply, I'm pointing our the incongruity of what you say and what you say you believe. You claim to be a Mormon, you claim to be a follower of Christ, and yet what you say about the poor is in direct contrast with the former. I'm merely asking

veritas1 Panda
10/30/13 9:00 pm

you to explain the disconnect. But no. You have to go creating polls behind my back to slander a straw man of that.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 9:02 pm

You claim to know my religion better than me, apparently. We can discuss religion if you really want to, but don't be so dishonest as to imply that your line of reasoning doesn't relate directly to the healthcare issue as you're alleging in my poll.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 9:03 pm

I'll tell you again: there is nothing in my religion that says I should support a "GOVERNMENT" program. Please cite a credible source showing otherwise if you don't believe it.

veritas1 Panda
10/30/13 9:05 pm

This is just sad, Okie. You are the only one talking about government. I know it's hard to defend your deeply flawed reasoning, but don't drag this out. Accept that you are the only one talking about welfare, & there is no basis for our lies/slander.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 9:10 pm

You should read the poll question again. It's directed at people who don't support the ACA. The ACA is law and it's gave rise to a government program. I was answering the poll question. How about you start a poll about religion?

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 9:17 pm

Did you read the poll question again, yet?

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 9:21 pm

You do see where this question asks about the ACA, don't you??????????!!!?!??!??

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 9:22 pm

Hello. Non-Veritas. Why is talking about a government program in a poll about a government program such a bad thing?

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 9:23 pm

I just shared this poll.

yepnope Maryland
10/30/13 9:36 pm

I'll second smartfart, as a home healthcare professional I can say you are wrong (maybe it's just an OK thong though). Some poor people eat McDonald's bc that's all they can afford which makes them fat. it's the 21st century, most people in 1st world countries have cell phones.

yepnope Maryland
10/30/13 9:37 pm

Addiction had no socioeconomic borders. And who gives a damn about thor?

smartfart Florida
10/30/13 9:43 pm

Just to add an example to Okie's cluelessness & incorrect world view, not all social workers are state workers. Very few actually. Though the agency I worked for received some state funding, it was a private agency. I have never been a state employee

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 9:50 pm

Eating at McDonalds is usually more expensive than making a meal at home. If you can afford Entertainment then you don't need my money via the federal government. Don't tell lies now. I've been in those homes and continue to see them regularly.

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
10/30/13 9:55 pm

Okie, I reread the question. It does not "ask about ACA." It mentions ACA in passing.

The actual question is, "Do you believe an uninsured person should be denied health care at a hospital?" It's about what a hospital should do, not the government.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 9:57 pm

It's not unreasonable to discuss the ACA in this poll. My thread was doing that. Be reasonable grandma.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 9:59 pm

And the question's clear implication is that without the ACA people would be denied healthcare. It wasn't mentioned in passing. The poll was targeted specifically at those who DON't support the ACA.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 10:03 pm

Headed to bed now. G'night.

Rosebud Ohio
10/30/13 11:57 pm

Just have to jump in... McD is a hella lot more expensive. I can make a decent meal for my family- 2 active young adults and a 2 year old who eats like an adult- for the cost of just a "happy" meal. Easily.

Think Lovin Life
10/31/13 4:55 am

Grandma ... let me get this straight ... you are differentiating O'care from the government? Really!?

MrO's signature failure is ALL ABOUT taking away our liberty and forcing citizens to pay for a service under the threat of GOVERNMENT sanction.

Think Lovin Life
10/31/13 5:00 am

Veritas ... it's really great that you are FINALLY ready for the Sunday School lesson!

Let's start with the Parable of the Talents. What lesson do you think Jesus intended with this Parable?

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
10/31/13 5:24 am

@Think, nothing in my comment says or implies that Obamacare is separate from the government. Read my words again. I said that DAVE'S QUESTION does not ask our opinion about Obamacare. I agree, the question could have been expressed more clearly.

ndavis make a difference
10/30/13 6:52 pm

I believe that people should pay for what they consume! I see people all the time sucking the coffers dry, but have the latest greatest phone, shoes, car, etc. They'd rather have US pay for their critical needs. I'm over it!

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kscott516 EB rules
10/30/13 7:00 pm

That's because health costs are sudden and they would need to save money to pay for it whereas drugs and alcohol are immediate fixes.

kscott516 EB rules
10/30/13 7:00 pm

Same with phones, cars, etc.

Think Lovin Life
10/31/13 5:06 am

kscott ... health care costs are as sudden as a new home purchase. The key is that too many people spend all that they make, and don't save anything for tomorrow. So, when health issues arise, they are unprepared. Why is that our responsibility?

kscott516 EB rules
10/31/13 5:25 am

Think, I was saying that they don't save for health care but instead spend every dime they make as soon as they get it on things they don't necessarily need.

Think Lovin Life
10/31/13 5:54 am

kscott ... Ah, I absolutely agree!

Zod Above Pugetropolis
10/30/13 6:43 pm

I'm not necessarily for the ACA, but I do believe some form of health insurance, or even better, universal healthcare, should be required to prevent having to ask or answer this question, among others.

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elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
10/30/13 6:42 pm

No. I believe a payment plan, based on *actual* costs, not insurance-inflated costs, should set up for people w/no insurance. Like in "olden days" (circa 1990 & before). There is no practical way to address these issues in sets of 250 characters.

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elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
10/30/13 6:44 pm

Insurance - pre-PP&ACA insurance - has been been one of several factors driving healthcare costs up. PP&ACA will NOT solve problem; it doubles down on most root problems, correcting *no* prior problems. Costs HAVE to go up, quality of care down.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
10/30/13 6:46 pm

Function follows form. As designed PP&ACA can only make bad problem worse. There are problems to correct. PP&ACA corrects none of those problems.

Think Lovin Life
10/31/13 5:08 am

Of course it will be worse! Those of us who were responsible before, and lived below our income, and purchased insurance now have to pay for the lazy and those who will not plan for their own needs.

Liberty 4,032,064
10/30/13 6:38 pm

There is no "should." There is not necessarily a "denial," either, based on the information given.

2katz I live in Nebraska
10/30/13 6:38 pm

I know it's beating a dead horse, but those of us against the ACA are against THIS DAMNED BILL, not against sick people, or health care! I accept that most libs are just incapable of viewing us fairly or accurately.

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Cole12 ...
10/30/13 6:38 pm

If they don't have the means to pay for it, why would the hospital give them free serivce? So yes.

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zman117 Ohio
10/30/13 6:39 pm

So let them die?

Cole12 ...
10/30/13 6:41 pm

Haha, Z - obviously not. There any thousands of charities that will these individuals.

zman117 Ohio
10/30/13 6:43 pm

That's just pure guessing. Nobody is stopping charities now, and I fail to see why people are so sure they would step up to the plate.

Cole12 ...
10/30/13 6:47 pm

Charities would have more money to give if we didn't live in such an anti-business, leftist environment. But, in the end, hospitals should not be forced to provide service to someone who is unwilling/unable to pay.

veritas1 Panda
10/30/13 6:49 pm

Oh right. When you're having a heart attack, you can just go to your local library, find a local healthcare charity, submit an application, wait it out, and you'll be fine! Free maker woo!

veritas1 Panda
10/30/13 6:49 pm

market*

Cole12 ...
10/30/13 6:53 pm

V: If the government left the healthcare business, charities would quickly adapt and innovate to meet the needs of the people they're helping. Ideally, a charity would be lined up for the person before a health problem arises.

kscott516 EB rules
10/30/13 6:53 pm

Hospitals cannot deny services for emergencies regardless of ability to pay so this question is moot

veritas1 Panda
10/30/13 6:55 pm

@Cole. You can't just say, "oh well, all the logical problems with my position will magically disappear if you accept my position." That's just intellectual laziness and just not true.
@k This is a question about whether it should.

zman117 Ohio
10/30/13 6:56 pm

"charities would quickly adapt and innovate to meet the needs of the people they're helping"

I still fail to see how you can treat that as some sort of fact.

kscott516 EB rules
10/30/13 6:58 pm

My reply still stands then. No hospitals should not be treated as doctor's offices. We have free clinics for just that reason. Do you even realize the variety of free health services at the free clinic?

Cole12 ...
10/30/13 6:58 pm

I'm not treating it as a fact - you're right, I do not know exactly how the system I propose would function. But, I nonetheless support the right of hospitals to refuse service to those who cannot pay. If I don't have $75k to spare on a new Beamer...

Cole12 ...
10/30/13 6:59 pm

should BMW just give me the car for free? Of course not, that is completely absurd.

veritas1 Panda
10/30/13 7:02 pm

You don't die if you don't get a spare within five minutes. How you're missing the fact that if the service is not IMMEDIATELY rendered, you DIE. Right there. Right then. This isn't a car repair. It's human life.

veritas1 Panda
10/30/13 7:03 pm

@k. Please tell me not about this free, vast and extensive system of free emergency car and ambulatory clinics across the nation that obviously exists.

Skarface Banned
10/30/13 7:04 pm

There's a difference between getting a car and not dying from something that's treatable.

Cole12 ...
10/30/13 7:06 pm

V: "It's human life" Really? I have no desire to have a debate on morality with you, as we obviously have completely different value systems.

veritas1 Panda
10/30/13 7:09 pm

This isn't a debate about morality. It's about whether valuing the marginal short term profits of a multinational conglomerate more than a human life is a societally successful course of action. It self-evidently isn't. That's just pure common sense.

kscott516 EB rules
10/30/13 7:12 pm

Veritas, uninsured have been able to go to a hospital for emergencies for decades. It isn't new. For non-emergencies there are free clinics. Maybe in a small rural town there might not be but they can pay cash for services.

Skarface Banned
10/30/13 7:13 pm

But Veritas, don't you know?!? The point of hospitals isn't to help people or to save lives, that just stupid! It's all about making bucks. Seriously, the naïveté of some libertarians is just too much.

kscott516 EB rules
10/30/13 7:13 pm

And hospitals don't make a profit on the uninsured.

kscott516 EB rules
10/30/13 7:14 pm

Do either of you work in a hospital? Because you don't know how they function.

veritas1 Panda
10/30/13 7:16 pm

K. Once again, the question is whether they should. Cole says no. The debate is over that. Is vs ought.

And actually yes, I worked in an ER this summer.

kscott516 EB rules
10/30/13 7:18 pm

I'll repeat. Yes they should be denied health care at a hospital other than for an emergency. Hospitals are not doctor's offices.

What capacity did you work in?

sandy0923
10/30/13 6:35 pm

I'm appalled that my insurance rates will continue to go up, along with my deductible - while uninsured get a choice of lower rates and lower deductible-I feel punished for having a job that offers health insurance. Why can't I have to sane choices?

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TomM
10/30/13 6:34 pm

The hospital should treat them as cash customers and charge them. If they don't pay, the hospital should go after them.

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zman117 Ohio
10/30/13 6:35 pm

What if they don't have the money?

TomM
10/30/13 6:36 pm

That is the hospitals problem.

zman117 Ohio
10/30/13 6:37 pm

So the hospital can deny them treatment if they don't have the money?

TomM
10/30/13 6:45 pm

My comment was to clarify that I don't think they should get free healthcare. I voted no.

kscott516 EB rules
10/30/13 6:54 pm

Hospitals cannot deny treatment prior to ACA for emergencies.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/30/13 6:33 pm

No, but it shouldn't be free either. Just because they don't have insurance doesn't mean they can't pay. Make them make payments.

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knetzere Illinois
10/30/13 6:35 pm

They will try to collect but typically sell off the debt to a third party

zman117 Ohio
10/30/13 6:33 pm

Reagan actually was the one who did this.


And what most people don't realize is that this is a huge part of the obscene cost of healthcare in this country. ER treatment isn't cheap.

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kscott516 EB rules
10/30/13 6:56 pm

That's not the driver of costs but while on the topic of ERs, part of it is because the uninsured and drug users go there for doctor's visits.

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
10/30/13 8:34 pm

A few years ago, I had a MRSA abscess in my leg & it had been misdiagnosed by two doctors. The pain became so intense on a holiday weekend that I ended up in the ER. Anyway, the packing & dressing needed to be checked & such by medical professionals

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
10/30/13 8:37 pm

on a regular basis & the ER doctor & nurse actually suggested that I return to the ER for this basic care, instead of a family doctor. I asked if my dr. could do it & he said they could. I had insurance at the time. I do think ER staff encouraging

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
10/30/13 8:38 pm

an unnecessary return ER visit was bad policy. I went to my family doctor instead.

knetzere Illinois
10/30/13 6:32 pm

The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act practically ensures that if you go to an emergency room they have to at the least stabilize your condition and cannot transfer or discharge you without your consent

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knetzere Illinois
10/30/13 6:34 pm

Only 3 groups can refuse emergency care. Indian health care facilities the VA and the Shriners(children's hospital)

EmWalt Meet Jim the Duck
10/30/13 8:05 pm

And those three can only refuse you because they are privately owned and operated, VA is mostly for veterans only, and Shriners because there are four other hospitals within two city blocks, including UC Med Center and Cincinnati Children's.

DavesNotHere where am I
10/30/13 6:30 pm

I'm just wondering if there's a conflict to some people. They may not like the ACA, but I personally can't see turning someone away from care.

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Mattwall1
10/30/13 6:32 pm

Even the hospitals that legally can dont normally. Unfortunately, certain hospitals can if they chose to

kscott516 EB rules
10/30/13 7:16 pm

Only for-profits can if its not an emergency

Mattwall1
10/30/13 6:22 pm

I'm for it, but no. And yes some hospitals are actually exempted from having to take in uninsured people.

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