Show of Hands

Parents and non-parents alike pay for public schools through property tax. Since anyone who owns property is paying for public education, why is it in any way bad to let them opt out of progressive propaganda?

It’s not. I’m saying that they should send their kids to the school that fits their own propaganda model, if they don’t like the propaganda model of public school.

I’d assume an LBBTQ book would be one where their sexuality is a central part of the storyline. Not necessarily just having a character in it that is LGBTQ.

Some of the ones I’ve seen that have been removed from libraries here have drawings of how to do oral sex, how for kids to service an adult, how to do anal sex, etc.

You just take them on a field trip to the zoo or aquarium. They will forget all about why they aren’t in school.

Not as awkward as children reading gay books

The grooming of their children?

So take your kids out of church. Grooming problem solved.

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There is no logic when dealing with the left. They act on emotion. Not on facts.

Moldy, you mean conservatives and Trumpistas.

Indeed.

I think I agree. Schools shouldn’t teach that “gay is right and straight is wrong” or vice-versa.

There’s nothing wrong with acknowledging that gay people exist and have rights, emotions and face challenges same as straight people.

I read a book as a child about John Henry winning a contest to build a section of railroad fast faster than a machine.

The moral was not that Black people were somehow better than the white people who had built the machine, but it did show that Black people could be heroes just like white people.

Nor was, I will add, the moral that industrial machines themselves were bad.

Are you familiar with the book Gender Queer? It’s available in a lot of elementary school libraries and describes same sex graphic scenes with illustrations. It’s porn. Should we get subscriptions to porn sites for schools and have them available for children to watch so they can learn the multiple ways people have sex?

I’ve never read it, but maybe I will. I try not to make judgments about books I have never personally read.

I would be interested in your assessment if you decide to read it.

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Here is a site with some excerpts:

www.pavementeducationproject.com/copy-of-excerpts-3

And these: theiowastandard.com/shocking-images-from-book-gender-queer-which-is-stocked-in-school-libraries-across-iowa/

I think it’s RIDICULOUS that these same school systems block anything on internet that could be considered porn, but have it sitting right there on the shelves for ELEMENTARY students to look at. Thanks for the links, PP. Adding them to my long list about this.

Most of the links I have are parents and students in school board meetings trying to read some of these books out loud and being told they can’t do that in a public forum because they’re too VULGAR!

The irony of that! It’s utterly ridiculous!

I clicked the Iowa Standard link.

I was looking forward to reading the book because of how prominent it has become in the culture wars.

I was disappointed to see that it’s a graphic comic. I have nothing against the medium, but I’ve tried to get into them before (Walking Dead) and failed.

I agree that parental consent should be required for anyone under the age of 13 because of the cartoon depictions of a low job and vibrator.

The story is biographical, so the 12-13 age range tracks. I was 12 when I first tried to see a naked woman. Google says girls can have their first period around 12, too. These things mark the start of puberty.

My take is the books should be available in the teen section of public libraries. Seventh grade is probably the right age for kids to have access to this book.

The only problem is that almost all 50 states have laws against minors having access to this type of content, and especially when provided by an adult. look up the PA provisions for mandated reporters after the Sandusky incident.

I consider the images you shared close to what is found in a health textbook and far from pornography. You no doubt disagree.

In a healthy democracy, where to draw the line between education, art and pornography should be subject of debate and the will of the voters should win the day.

Of course, even a democracy will have its points of contention and in those cases courts will decide based on the Constitution.

Neither prudes nor perverts should make the rules about protecting children, but ordinary, reasonable people in the middle.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a health textbook depict oral sex or even heterosexual couples engaging in sex acts. Legislators made the laws for mandated reporting and they were bipartisan. The courts did decide. Parents have the right to opt out and these books should not be available to elementary school children. I think we agree there.

We do agree on that.

I’m curious where you would draw the line. Should elementary students be allowed to see art books that have a picture of the statue of David, which famously shows his penis?

When I taught elementary school, I didn’t and I taught a classical art curriculum. There’s really no reason to show it when they’re that young. I had them tape canvas to the bottom of their desks and we talked about the Sistine Chapel and then they created their own with it art. It’s not like if they don’t see it then they will be artistically ruined for life. The brain is still really under developed at that point, so unless we want kids this age stripping down to play “David”, I’d say leave it for high school or college when they won’t be ridiculous and will appreciate it. What’s lost if we wait?

That makes sense to me for typical grade schoolers. I’d like there to be exceptions for advanced students in accelerated learning programs, though.

If a 12 year old is mature enough to succeed in high school level classes, I say don’t hold them back.

That’s a really, really, really rare occurrence. I’d say it’s up to the parents if they want to expose their kids to that stuff at an earlier age.

I can’t imagine a scenario where parental consent would be an issue. Programs like Montessori or self-directed learning are usually opt-in.

Even at the high school level, advanced students aren’t placed in college credit classes without going through some sort of registration process. Parents will always know what’s going on in a case like that.

Well, that was the whole issue that went to SCOTUS and was ruled on this week. There were so many parents who wanted to opt out of classes where gender and sexuality were the focus for elementary school children that the school said they couldn’t opt out and wouldn’t be Informed of the content taught in class. SCOTUS ruled against the schools.

That’s different than what I’m talking about.

I’m talking about a case where the school calls up their parents and says little Jimmy is ahead of the other students and there is a program for advanced students that would be a better fit. Jimmy would need to change schools to attend classes in a building a little further away, and the curriculum will be more advanced than the standard curriculum, but Jimmy is likely to benefit from the program.

You’re right, PP. I’ve never seen a textbook with any drawings depicting ANY type of sex. Biology books have drawings of the genitals for scientific purposes, because boys and girls need to learn the names of their body parts, but that’s as far as I’ve ever seen a textbook go.

Definitely not depictions of two guys doing oral sex on each other!

There is something that Corrie Ten Boom wrote which I think applies here.

“Sex,” I was pretty sure, meant whether you were a boy or girl, and “sin” made Tante Jans very angry, but what the two together meant I could not imagine. And so, seated next to Father in the train compartment, I suddenly asked, “Father, what is sexsin?” He turned to look at me, as he always did when answering a question, but to my surprise he said nothing. At last he stood up, lifted his traveling case from the rack over our heads, and set it on the floor.
“Will you carry it off the train, Corrie?” he said.

I stood up and tugged at it. It was crammed with the watches and spare parts he had purchased that morning.

“It’s too heavy,” I said.

“Yes,” he said. “And it would be a pretty poor father who would ask his little girl to carry such a load. It’s the same way, Corrie, with knowledge. Some knowledge is too heavy for children. When you are older and stronger you can bear it. For now you must trust me to carry it for you.” - from The Hiding Place: The Triumphant True Story of Corrie Ten Boom

We are asking our children to carry loads that are way too heavy for them. They should not be forced, as children, to see and feel the world through the lens of adults. Innocence is worth protecting and worth fighting for. We need to do our part as parents and caregivers to carry certain things for them until they are old enough to bear the load.

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I don’t think any of that content is appropriate in grades below middle school.

Ody, no one has proven that it’s genetic. And even if it is, it shouldn’t be taught in elementary schools. And certainly not in books that are considered by school board members to be too vulgar to read in a school board meeting and certainly not with drawings about how to do oral and anal sex on an ADULT MALE.

How is this porn? Giggity.

If it’s so disgusting that a child or a parent can’t read it out loud at a school board meeting, then it’s porn.

It’s probably just because school board members are so creepy.

I agree. They’re the ones who approved the porn in the first place.

4JC - I see where you’re going with this, but I’d take it a step further and say that LGBTQ stuff shouldn’t be in schools at all.

Well I agree with that. But I highly doubt as long as liberals are in charge of the DoE that’s going to happen.

At least this is better than saying, “If you don’t want your kids to be exposed to this, you have to take them to Christian schools…..” which is what they’ve always said in the past when we’ve opposed anything they were pushing.

“Liberals in charge of the DOE?” The administration is under a Republican so what are you going on about?

The public education system has been run by liberals for DECADES, as have the teachers’ unions. Even when Republicans were in charge of DC, they refused to do anything about this.

Without a Democrat Administration putting them on the FBI watch list?

Al Gebra? That ain't the name of the priest who offered me a blow job when I was 15.

I am staunchly against materials that try and influence young kids' sexual orientation, for the benefit of creepy adults. Safeguards against creeps, whether alien or familiar, including against figures of authority who may abuse it, should however be on the program.

Shouldn’t religious liberty be protected? Same with the cakes.

Yes it is stupid (and sick) to groom children with insane LGBT propaganda.

DEI- kids already know, ever hear of the internet 🤡

I love- and some kids should be protected from some religions 🫠 the good thing about this ruling it goes both ways

I just don’t see how opting out is harming anyone. Now if they refused service to a gay couple that’s different.

I love- I agree.

Z you just defeated your own argument. If they already learn about on the Internet, there’s no need for schools to teach it. You lose again! 🤡

DEI- wrong again, I’m just stating facts. And I said I agree with the ruling, 🙄 I’m for parents rights when it comes to schools.

Then the Democrat Party is not for you. They think they own your child and know better than you on how to raise them.

DEI- I find both parties piles of 💩 right now.

I’m pretty sure Zimmys not a Democrat he could be but I don’t think he is.

Well at least the Republican Party isn’t on some woke crusade to trans the kids and hate White People 24/7. I’ll take them every time!

Zimmy, your analogy doesn’t work.

Parents can LOCK DOWN the internet, not provide kids’ devices, and have a central computer in the living room for school work.

But they can’t control their child at school who is looking at porno books of how to have sex with an adult man when they’re not at school with them. Surely, you don’t want your little boy exposed to that in elementary school?

As Zimmy’s little boy grows, and he starts entering the world of public school and finding out what they’re teaching his kid, Zimmy is going to become more and more Republican. I can’t WAIT for the metamorphosis! 😂

Zim - Are you suggesting that you will allow your child to view gay porno online?

MissSF🤡- once again you say things I never said! For once can you stop lying 🤡

4JC- sure you can lock down the internet, but remember not all parents do that. A child can go to a friend’s house and use the internet. You can’t close your children from the world impossible! And kids talk! I certainly knew all about sex stuff at a young age, most kids know more than we think. And forget about internet, word of mouth! Kids joke and talk. Banning a book in public schools ain’t going to change that. Sure I agree with the law in principle. But kids know more in the real world, it’s kinda useless in this day in age 🤷🏻‍♂️

Zimantha - Sounds like a yes to me.

MissSF🤡- of course it does, because you are a simpleton 🤡🤡🤡🤡

Zimmy, I’ll just say this…. Kids do know a lot but there is a very big difference between them finding out from peers as opposed to finding out from authority figures. Watch Eye of the Storm with Jane Elliot to see the psychology of influence an authority figure has in influencing behavior, especially in children.

Zimmy, you can also protect your kids from other kids and their families. Our children weren’t allowed to stay with any families unless they were dedicated Christians and we had been in and out of their homes multiple times, to see their values.

No one when I was that age knew ANYTHING about LGBT. There is no BANNING of books. They’re allowing parents to decide if their OWN children will be allowed to read them.

I vote no mostly because there is no definition of an LGBTQ book. Does it mean one character is gay? Is it a story about teenagers trying to figure things out? Is it a detailed, illustrated, scratch-and-sniff diary of a gay cruise? Because right now, it seems to really represent anything a parent deems to be “gay”.

“The case arose from Montgomery County Public Schools incorporating books into their preschool through 12th grade language arts curriculum a few years ago that featured "lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer characters," the school district’s attorneys told the Supreme Court.”

“The parents who brought the suit span a range of religious backgrounds. Tamer Mahmoud and Enas Barakat are Muslim, while others fall under different denominations of Christianity.”

“Rosalind Hanson, a member of the conservative group Moms for Liberty, told Fox News Digital during a recent interview in front of the Supreme Court that she and other parents who helped bring the case were "not trying to change the curriculum" for parents who did support their children being exposed to the books.”

Thanks for that info, HQ!

Moms of Liberty started during Covid, in January 2021, didn’t have their first national meeting until July 2022, and as of July 2023, the organization has 285 chapters in 45 states, and over 115K members!

They are just puppets for the GOP and Heritage Foundation. They present themselves as being concerned mothers, but with links to groups like the Proud Boyz and the 3 Percenters we see them, threatening school boards, and individual teachers across America. Don’t be suckered in because they call themselves “moms“

Not so, SiD. I’ve read personal testimonies of these mothers that have found horrific books in their children’s libraries.

Follow the money.

What mom and or dad has the time to go one by one to find books in a children’s library? Seems to me there could be better things to do.

ILY, ones that CARE. I don’t see anything more important than protecting our kids from sexual deviancy and sexualization before they’re old enough to learn these things.

And this just goes to show that you’ve never had any kids, or you would understand this ILY.

Why does me not having children negate my opinion? 🤔

Because you don’t know what’s important in parenting kids. You don’t think parents should take the time to protect them.

That’s not what I said.

“What mom and or dad has the time to go one by one to find books in a children’s library?”

Here you’re saying parents shouldn’t take the time to protect their kids. Too many of them have turned their kids over to day cares and school systems to raise and now they’re having to FIGHT to get their parental rights back. I hope this will lead to more moms staying at home with their kids and homeschooling them.

OMG how arrogant. Stop now 4jc.

If you don’t care enough about your kids to keep porno out of the children’s section of your library, you shouldn’t have kids to begin with.

ILY and 4JC, I can both of your points. Yes, parents should be aware of what is happening in their child’s education and what they are bringing home. However, in the last few years some of the materials have not been sent home for fear parents would not approve of the subject. That is wrong and that is exactly why we have gotten these mothers who, ILY, you think have too much time on their hands.

However, some parents can take this to far and become what educators call Helicopter parents and then take it a step further becoming lawnmower or bulldozer parents.

At some point parents and educators have to realize that education is not something that works in a vacuum, it is a partnership between students, parents and educators and why the curriculum should be more community based and run rather than run by the state or federal government.

Well said, HQ! I agree!

Thanks!!

You’re welcome!