Show of HandsShow of Hands

steelcity October 27th, 2013 12:02am

Lets try this again. European countries (UK/Germany)are contemplating banning circumcision for humanitarian purposes (disfigured the boy without his consent). Should this be considered in the US?

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nickelb Texas
10/26/13 8:19 pm

I think it's kinda disgusting myself. Let him decide if he wants the preceding when he grows up.

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dryanmorr
10/26/13 6:45 pm

Parents have the consent. This shouldn't even be an issue at all. Circumcision isn't anything major but mostly cosmetic and religious. Stop making this an issue.

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dryanmorr
10/26/13 9:39 pm

Have you ever looked at the statistics?
The benefits out weight the cons. That aside it should be the parents decision. Not yours or the governments.

Diogenes FreeMeBe
10/26/13 6:37 pm

Get the government out of family decisions and my pants!

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doctalk not all who wander r lost
10/26/13 9:36 pm

No intent to interrupt religious practice, but would you be willing to perform the surgery. It really only takes a couple to figure it out. Or you could help tie the boy in the restraints.

Arkansas123 Neoconservative
10/26/13 6:16 pm

The World Health Organization recommends infant circumcision, and the American Academy of Pediatrics says the benefits outweigh the risks.

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Arkansas123 Neoconservative
10/26/13 6:18 pm

I'm not surprised to see that most of the Democrats voting thus far adhere to the anti-science position.

susanr Colorado
10/26/13 8:48 pm

It's true that the AAP did modify its position this year. They haven't said that the benefits overwhelmingly outweigh any risks, though. Just sorta barely, enough to justify social & religious reasons for doing it. I imagine the WHO's position

susanr Colorado
10/26/13 8:49 pm

is based on world-wide risks, which can be quite different in 3rd world countries.

doctalk not all who wander r lost
10/26/13 9:37 pm

Risks are way less when hygiene (shower) is available.

susanr Colorado
10/26/13 9:40 pm

Yep, doc. Also with proper hygiene in general, which I understand can be a problem if pediatricians & their nurses haven't dealt with uncircumcised boys much, & aren't able to inform parents how -and WHEN (not before about age 1, I think) how to

susanr Colorado
10/26/13 9:41 pm

retract the foreskin & clean themselves. At least, that was the situation when my younger friends were having babies in the 80s. I really thought things would have changed a lot by now, as they have with breastfeeding.

AngryAngel Oswego, IL
10/26/13 6:05 pm

Im circumcised and I don't remember any pain. I also think it looks better than the alternative. I might have gotten it due to religious reasons, but I've heard many benefits from it health wise and given the chance, wouldn't choose not to get it.

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Statek Im from the Internet
10/26/13 8:17 pm

I think it looks terrible and now I'm stuck with something I didn't want

Statek Im from the Internet
10/26/13 8:27 pm

If there's a good enough option in the next few years, I may even try to have it restored

AngryAngel Oswego, IL
10/26/13 8:28 pm

I wish you the best of luck with that. I guess I'm just lucky that I got mine the way I want.

chickencookie It really is
10/26/13 5:41 pm

I don't think Ive ever seen one "with" and I dated a lot of Christians.

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Ebola1 Florida
10/26/13 8:08 pm

Circumcision is not required in the Christian religion. It symbolizes a covenant with God in the Jewish religion.

chickencookie It really is
10/26/13 8:30 pm

Well I dunno but those Italian guys from Brooklyn...

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
10/26/13 5:41 pm

NO NO NO NO NO. I didn't suffer any permanent trauma from circumcision; neither did my son; neither have 5,000 years of Jewish males nor most of the men half my age and older. This is a ridiculous new fad foisted on society by the human equivalent

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TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
10/26/13 5:45 pm

of PETA nuts.

susanr Colorado
10/26/13 8:50 pm

"Liberal nutbags" like me.

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
10/26/13 9:00 pm

Boy, I'm glad I didn't say that. Susan, what do you have against circumcision?

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/26/13 9:04 pm

Well, if a mom can kill her unborn child then she ought to be circumcise him. It's just another case of nutbag liberals trying to tell people how to live. It's similar to the sugary drink "do gooders."

susanr Colorado
10/26/13 9:07 pm

As I've said, I wouldn't ban it (any more than I would ban large - or any size - sugary drinks), I just wish people didn't feel it ought to be done. I don't think there's any reason to do it. It's probably difficult to do a comparison test

susanr Colorado
10/26/13 9:08 pm

but I understand men who are uncircumcised are thought to have greater sensitivity in the area.

I just don't understand lopping off part of the human body (almost) at birth. If it WEREN'T a custom & someone suggested doing it, how would you

susanr Colorado
10/26/13 9:10 pm

feel about it? Seriously. What if I suggested lopping off earlobes at birth because people could probably hear a little better? I know you are both deeply religious: Do you think that God made humans *almost* perfect, except for that one little bit

susanr Colorado
10/26/13 9:11 pm

of skin - which just happens to be covering the most sensitive part of a man's body? I don't mean any disrespect by that; just trying to understand how it seems to you.

susanr Colorado
10/26/13 9:13 pm

Reading your comment again, tlaney, it seems to me that the "fad" is the act of cutting off part of the body. An old fad, yes (although not, I don't believe all *that* old, except for Jews, & a somewhat newer fad for men in the US, for some reason).

think4yourself Not a safe space
10/26/13 9:17 pm

Funny thing about liberals is they are against anything that prevents disease.

susanr Colorado
10/26/13 9:23 pm

That's really one of the silliest statments I've ever seen about liberals.

I'm aware of the stats about circumcision, & that the AAP has modified its position just this year. They have not said there is an overwhelming health benefit to it, though.

susanr Colorado
10/26/13 9:25 pm

It seems difficult to engage in any actual discussion here without encountering stereotype-bashing. I'm thinking there isn't much point to being here at all. One feels a little... unwelcome, as if I'm interrupting something.

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
10/26/13 9:44 pm

susan, just between you and me here, (!) the act was originally symbolic. It represents, according to the Bible, the "circumcision of the heart," or the removal of some sort of spiritual pericardium which supposedly renders us less sensitive to God.

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
10/26/13 9:48 pm

Now, I heard you say that intact males are supposedly more sensitive, but if you examine the analog of the female foreskin, when it retracts during arousal is apparently the time of maximum sensitivity, and I think the same goes for the male

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
10/26/13 9:53 pm

foreskin. (whew! Hot in here!) so the analogy of a circumcised heart being sensitive to God is the whole symbolic point. On another level, a really raw emotional level, the first males circumcised were adults, and thereafter, adult converts to

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
10/26/13 9:57 pm

Judaism had to submit to it too. The most basic insting of a man is "Get that knife the Hell AWAY from my junk!" So this became a tremendous sign of obedience and commitment to God. In the Early Christian church, public baptism by full immersion was

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
10/26/13 10:03 pm

a similar step of courage, because the Church was under persecution and a public profession of faith could mean death. So circumcision carried symbolism and also represented a life's commitment. Modern Christians continue the practice for

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
10/26/13 10:07 pm

the same reasons that Jews do. The health claims are really secondary for those of us who see circumcision as an act of obedience. Many "mainstream" Christians (Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Episcopalians, etc.) have never heard

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
10/26/13 10:10 pm

what I just told you, and if they circumcise, it's only for assumed health benefits.
Hope this clears up some of your questions, and I apologize for the unwelcome reception you got. ❤️

susanr Colorado
10/26/13 10:35 pm

tlaney - Thanks for your kind explanations. Steelcity's poll has closed, so I don't know if you'll see this or not. I would have a couple of responses, if there were some way to do it. I'll try to find you somewhere else, as well.

think4yourself Not a safe space
10/26/13 5:31 pm

Not only is it a religious right it also tremendously cuts down on stds which apparently Europeans and liberals don't mind spreading around.

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BeachSt Coastal Virginia
10/26/13 5:38 pm

No it doesn't. It's called a bath. We now get the water necessary for a bath directed straight to our houses nowadays (in most places).

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
10/26/13 5:52 pm

Yes, which forms when we disregard our body parts.

Arkansas123 Neoconservative
10/26/13 6:31 pm

Bathing prevents STDs . . . ?

think4yourself Not a safe space
10/26/13 7:03 pm

the relative risk for HIV infection was 44% lower in circumcised men. The strongest association was seen in men at high risk, such as patients at STD clinics, for whom the adjusted relative risk was 71% lower for circumcised men.

Ebola1 Florida
10/26/13 8:11 pm

It does not "tremendously" cut the risk of STDs. I would like the reference on increased risk of HIV because I don't believe that is the case at all.

Ebola1 Florida
10/26/13 8:15 pm

Hygiene is not a problem when the person cleans under the foreskin while bathing.

Arkansas123 Neoconservative
10/26/13 9:11 pm

"There is compelling evidence that male circumcision reduces the risk of heterosexually acquired HIV infection in men by approximately 60%."

www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/

susanr Colorado
10/26/13 9:34 pm

Most of the data for the information at both of those links was collected in & is more pertinent to 3rd world countries in Africa, & I believe are regarding unprotected (by condom) sex. The situation in the US is a little different & some of the

susanr Colorado
10/26/13 9:36 pm

studies (the US ones) cited at one of those links said there was no statistically significant decrease in HIV infection.

swjboucher Just Run
10/26/13 5:30 pm

We don't need government to ban a common practice.

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stefanie22 Cincinnati
10/26/13 5:28 pm

Keep them circumcised! They look better! ;)

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think4yourself Not a safe space
10/26/13 5:29 pm

How many have you seen? Lol

stefanie22 Cincinnati
10/26/13 5:30 pm

Wouldn't you like to know!

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
10/26/13 5:39 pm

You actively champion mutilation? :(

stefanie22 Cincinnati
10/26/13 5:41 pm

Why not, we do all kinds of things to our bodies for men, they can get cut for us!

If you can't tell, I'm in a goofy mood & am totally messing around.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
10/26/13 6:02 pm

Well, yes, they can, but parents shouldn't choose that.

I see.. It's okay.

Statek Im from the Internet
10/26/13 8:18 pm

They look mutilated to me
Immensely prefer the uncut

susanr Colorado
10/26/13 5:10 pm

No, it shouldn't be banned. I just wish parents wouldn't choose to do it, but it's been a convention in the US for enough decades that people haven't figured out it's not necessary yet. There are potential advantages & disadvantages, but overall

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susanr Colorado
10/26/13 5:11 pm

it can't be argued that it's necessary - but I don't think public opinion has changed enough to allow a ban. (I could maybe be persuaded the other way, though, if it were likened to a civil right.)

What about Jews, though? It's a religious thing.

nickelb Texas
10/26/13 8:25 pm

Sacrificing children at the alter is a religious thing. I'm 100% okay with that being illegal!

susanr Colorado
10/26/13 8:42 pm

Yeah, so am I, actually. Of course.

You could convince ME, because I already think it's stupid. I just don't think American society in general, & Jews in particular, will see it that way.

nickelb Texas
10/26/13 8:45 pm

I just don't understand their logic. " I have the right to cut off my son's foreskin as a sacrifice to God".