Show of HandsShow of Hands

ScottyDoesNo October 21st, 2013 11:53am

50 million babies have been aborted since Roe v. Wade. 6 million Jews were killed in World War II. Which is worse?

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Comments: Add Comment

pmurray00 New Jersey
10/23/13 10:23 am

50 million people > 6 million people. So I think the abortions are worse.

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IceIsAMyth Alabama
10/23/13 10:30 am

A splotch of cells = people?

I better go apologize to that bacteria I just stepped on.

pmurray00 New Jersey
10/23/13 10:34 am

I'm not talking about bacteria, I'm talking about early developed humans.

ozzy
10/23/13 7:31 am

Both horrible mass murders, but my tax money pays for abortions, so that seems worse to me.

cowboy Doors of Perception
10/22/13 5:44 am

Neither. They're both State sponsored genocide.

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ScottyDoesNo Stand back and stand by
10/22/13 9:15 am

You coming OnAir with me?

ScottyDoesNo Stand back and stand by
10/22/13 10:04 am

Rob wants to make it weekend after this, really pump it up since we're probably two of the most infamous users. :-)

If you haven't already, set up a Google+ account and add "Rob Perkins" from Holiday, FL and "Scott Currier" from Greenville, SC.

cowboy Doors of Perception
10/22/13 10:59 am

So I need a computer? Because I don't have one.

ScottyDoesNo Stand back and stand by
10/22/13 11:02 am

Are you trolling the king troll? :-)

cowboy Doors of Perception
10/22/13 2:18 pm

What? No. I guess some people don't really realize how poor I am. I do not have a computer. That is why I asked you, last time, if I could call in. I have an old Android, that's it.

ScottyDoesNo Stand back and stand by
10/22/13 2:27 pm

Well damn, depending on your model you could always "call in" via the app and use the front-facing camera. Is that possible? And you can sign up for G+ via their app.

ScottyDoesNo Stand back and stand by
10/23/13 10:34 am

Well Cowboy, I guess we just lost the debate with that post.

raynin Texas
10/21/13 6:39 pm

This is just a spin from Kirk Cameron followers and the 180 movie. They use it to evangelize

osouless Whats Next
10/21/13 5:48 pm

Well one's aborted fetus' and the other is mass genocide. Like comparing apples to oranges.

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MJSeals J.D.
10/21/13 6:10 pm

It's like comparing 50 million dead people to 6 million dead people

osouless Whats Next
10/21/13 6:11 pm

Fetus' aren't people.

MJSeals J.D.
10/21/13 6:22 pm

Why is that?

MJSeals J.D.
10/21/13 6:22 pm

If a fetus could grow on its own and left for 50 years would it not become a Middle Aged man or women?

DankZane Visus Per Mentem
10/21/13 4:14 pm

Fetuses aren't people.

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MJSeals J.D.
10/21/13 5:22 pm

Why not?

DankZane Visus Per Mentem
10/21/13 5:27 pm

If it can't survive outside the womb on its own it's not a person

MJSeals J.D.
10/21/13 5:29 pm

Actually sperm and an egg can be fertilized and fully grown out side a womb

DankZane Visus Per Mentem
10/21/13 5:31 pm

But can the fertilized egg survive on it's own?

MJSeals J.D.
10/21/13 5:33 pm

Can a 10 year old? Can some 20 year olds? No everyone needs help from somebody (as Obama said you didn't build that speech)

DankZane Visus Per Mentem
10/21/13 5:37 pm

You're confusing survival for providing for oneself

MJSeals J.D.
10/21/13 5:39 pm

I have a 40 year old cousin who can't provide for himself or survive on his own. A 5 year old can't provide or survive on its own i don't see the point.

DankZane Visus Per Mentem
10/21/13 5:45 pm

You're not understanding the point I'm trying to make. A viable fetus can survive outside a womb, even if it is very premature, but there is nothing modern medicine can do to save a fetus that has not fully developed all of its organs. Being able to

DankZane Visus Per Mentem
10/21/13 5:45 pm

provide for oneself has nothing to do with the argument I'm trying to make.

MJSeals J.D.
10/21/13 5:46 pm

I fully developed and born baby cannot survive on its own. Your argument is invalid

MJSeals J.D.
10/21/13 5:47 pm

My cousin cannot survive on his own and he would not have made it to 40 without modern medicine next point

DankZane Visus Per Mentem
10/21/13 6:01 pm

That's the point. Nothing can keep a fetus alive but a person can be kept alive by medicine. Ill gladly debate gun control if you want

MJSeals J.D.
10/21/13 6:08 pm

I'll debate when you make a coherent statement try again

MJSeals J.D.
10/21/13 6:09 pm

And if your saying a fetus can only be kept alive because of medicine that doesn't mean it isn't a person, there are many people who are kept alive because of medicine your argument in invalid and incoherent

DankZane Visus Per Mentem
10/21/13 6:12 pm

A fetus that can be kept alive by medicine is a person. One that can't is not.

MJSeals J.D.
10/21/13 6:15 pm

All fetus ues can be kept alive with medicine. One that was in the mothers womb was removed at 11 weeks and grew up to a health child, same as one grown in a test lab

MJSeals J.D.
10/21/13 6:15 pm

But what about people who have disease like Alzheimer's where medicine can't help them. Are they no longer people?

DankZane Visus Per Mentem
10/21/13 6:21 pm

After they die, no. Most people call that dead.

MJSeals J.D.
10/21/13 6:24 pm

No not after they die, when someone gets Alzheimer's medicine cannot save them they will die of it they can no longer survive in their own. According to your argument once someone is diagnosed with Alzheimer's they stop being a person

twss trump is a garbage human
10/21/13 8:05 pm

MJ, I'm impressed, dude. Win!

kairu Trust no one...simple
10/21/13 4:01 pm

When you abort a baby, you are murdering somebody! Even if you don't believe that life begins at conception, you are not even giving it a chance at life! How could you be more cruel!

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MJSeals J.D.
10/21/13 4:11 pm

Liberals are too close minded to think th...actually just think at all

true Home
10/21/13 3:29 pm

Abortion is much worse in my opinion.

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true Home
10/21/13 3:30 pm

Ill clarify before people get butt hurt. I think aborted 50 million babies is worse.

MJSeals J.D.
10/21/13 4:10 pm

Finally someone who has common sense!

derzeck
10/21/13 3:19 pm

Aborted babies does not even compare to the holocaust. I really do not understand the whole pro-life position.

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kairu Trust no one...simple
10/21/13 3:55 pm

Umm the pro life position is for giving people a chance at life, we're against murdering those who can't defend themselves. I hate what hitler did to the Jews, and I hate what people are doing to innocent babies!

MJSeals J.D.
10/21/13 4:11 pm

Which is worse 50 millions dead or 6 million?

Mattwall1
10/21/13 5:19 pm

I'm sorry, but every survivor I know is very pro choice. So please, stop this madness.

kairu Trust no one...simple
10/21/13 3:12 pm

Murdering 50 million people before they even get a chance at life! That's terrible! Although both are really bad.

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justmebcimme I live for Dean and Cas
10/21/13 1:45 pm

What's worse? "Killing" an embryo that was never old enough to actually form and be 'alive', or killing and torturing innocent people who had already started their lives?

kairu Trust no one...simple
10/21/13 3:09 pm

Not letting 50 million people even get a chance at life is terrible, although both are extremely bad.

lectrik Silly gas guzzling Prius
10/21/13 1:44 pm

Yo Scotty. If you still follow me I'm curious what you think about my most recent poll

ScottyDoesNo Stand back and stand by
10/21/13 1:54 pm

Interesting dilemma, but I'd do it!

GotHeem Indiana
10/21/13 12:42 pm

I hate the idea that people think it's ok to kill a baby with a heart beat. If it has a heart beat it is living.

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justmebcimme I live for Dean and Cas
10/21/13 1:42 pm

It doesn't have a heart beat when it's aborted. It hasn't had time to form the baby.

SugarShaq
10/21/13 4:36 pm

It has a heart beat at 6 weeks gestation. And 6 weeks is not measured from conception but from egg release.

jwest4
10/21/13 11:10 am

at least the holocaust was illegal, legal slaughtering of an unborn child is much worse in my opinion, but it's just my opinion.

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MrMilkdud
10/21/13 10:21 am

In the US, a disproportionately high number of children killed before being born are minorities and have low income parents.
Maybe all the people who support abortion really just hate minorities and poor people the same way Hitler hated the Jews?

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SugarShaq
10/21/13 10:23 am

Well, that was why planned parenthood was founded.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/21/13 10:24 am

The last statistic I saw on black abortion put black babies at a 48% abortion rate. A black child is almost as likely to be aborted as birthed.

Sick society we have here!!!!

MrMilkdud
10/21/13 10:28 am

That sounds about right, Okie- it's almost as if Margaret Sanger's plan to put planned parenthood clinics in black neighborhoods to keep the black population down is working!
Why do abortion supporters hate black people so much?

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/21/13 10:32 am

Maybe they don't hate black people, anymore, per se. Maybe they're just going where the death market is?

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/21/13 10:40 am

And making some bucks off of it.

MrMilkdud
10/21/13 10:40 am

You may be right- after all, the abortion industry is a huge business.

MrMilkdud
10/21/13 10:42 am

After all, according to MediaMatters, its “total revenue from abortion services was approximately $164,154,000,” a year. They go on to explain that over 51 percent of Planned Parenthood’s clinic income comes from abortion.

MrMilkdud
10/21/13 10:43 am

I wonder if Hitler made that much money off of the holocaust?

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 10:48 am

Great point milk! I said the same thing earlier. Further, I said so if we could have the one billion babies back, whose parents didn't want or couldn't afford them, now what? We have a billion unwanted children on this planet. Is that a good thing?

MrMilkdud
10/21/13 10:50 am

Sure, EB- if I follow your logic train all the way to the wreck, then I guess you're in favor of killing all the poor and starving people in the world who you think SHOULD have been aborted, right?
Better off dead, right?

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 10:53 am

I'm not for killing people. I'm for eliminating human tissue before it turns into a human.

MrMilkdud
10/21/13 10:55 am

Right, you're for narrowing the definition of human and then killing what doesn't fit.

Let's make a list of famous historical figures who narrowed the definition of human and then killed people who didn't fit into it... Would you like to start?

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 10:57 am

No, I'd rather not. And I'd rather you not either.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/21/13 10:58 am

That's exactly what Hitler did. Jews weren't considered human beings. This is a point of propaganda that Schindler's list did a good job of conveying. It's historical fact that jews were demonized for years as sub-human. It's easier to kill non-human

MrMilkdud
10/21/13 11:00 am

Really? Why?
Using your logic, anyone would have to assume that such a list would be chock full of heroes and paragons of social justice!
Intelligent people, socially minded people, right?

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 11:00 am

Of course it's easier to kill non humans. A 12 week old fingernail of blood and cells is not a human.

ScottyDoesNo Stand back and stand by
10/21/13 11:08 am

It's simply not true we'd have all these unwanted children lying around. There's something like three couples that want to adopt for every child that's available. That's why everyone goes to China, we're too busy killing off the kids here.

Matt1981 The Who Dat Nation
10/21/13 11:09 am

A 12 week old fingernail of blood and cells? At 5 weeks the baby has a heartbeat. Doesn't that make it a living human being?

FemmeAdamWest in the Tardis library
10/21/13 11:12 am

If there are so many couples willing to adopt why are there so many kids (of all ages! babies included) in foster care?

FemmeAdamWest in the Tardis library
10/21/13 11:13 am

Also the number of religious people who get abortions is extremely higher than those who aren't religious so you could also say those of us who "support" abortion hate religion.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
10/21/13 11:14 am

He or she was a living human being before ever there was a heartbeat. Human life doesn't begin. It just continues, propagates to new individuals, Individuality happens at conception.

ScottyDoesNo Stand back and stand by
10/21/13 11:14 am

Obviously the older a child is the less "desirable" they are to be adopted which is most of the problem and for the few babies there are there's always going to be "inventory" as they're matched with prospective parents.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/21/13 11:21 am

That's a moot point femme. Religious people can nursery too. That doesn't make it ok.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/21/13 11:21 am

"Murder," not nursery.

Matt1981 The Who Dat Nation
10/21/13 11:27 am

Considering 78% of all adult Americans consider themselves religious I'm sure you could make the same exact general statement about anything.

Matt1981 The Who Dat Nation
10/21/13 11:35 am

At 6 weeks a baby can feel sensations around its mouth and face, at 7 weeks a baby can feel a needle stick and will draw away. At this point if you put an instrument or probe in its hand the fingers will curl up around it. But no pain?

ozzy
10/23/13 7:39 am

Yes. They are called progressive democrats. Same people who find racism in every disagreement. Lol

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/21/13 10:16 am

I would choose the babies. They're completely innocent and defenseless. The Jews were innocent, but not defenseless. Some fought back. I personally would never stand in line naked waiting for my turn to be lined-up next to the pit and .........

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TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/21/13 10:16 am

..........the pit and mowed-down with a machine gun. Plus, the number of aborted babies far exceeds Hitler's murder.

theavgguy I.E.
10/21/13 1:49 pm

There is documented written record's of abortion going back 1800 years before Christ. It was legal in this country until 1880, and controlled only to save a mothers life after that. It is nothing new.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/21/13 1:52 pm

Yup. There's was murder long before Christ came and also here before we illegal used it. Doesn't make it right.

theavgguy I.E.
10/21/13 10:14 am

One is not genocide.

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cyanospool The Deep North
10/21/13 1:19 pm

Technically you're right, abortion isn't exactly genocide since it's not deliberately targeted at a group of people with common genetic traits. Although with the numbers of females and ethnic minorities that are aborted, one could say it's . . .

cyanospool The Deep North
10/21/13 1:19 pm

. . . a coincidental genocide. Anyway, mass killing is still mass killing, no matter the motive. I suppose genocide could be considered "worse" in the sense that the motive is both personal selfishness and hatred of others. Most women . . .

cyanospool The Deep North
10/21/13 1:20 pm

. . . who abort probably don't hate their baby, they just don't want to carry it for 3/4 a year. So it's really only one motivation. (Unless you're H. H. Holmes' third wife and are doing it for science - still wrong).

theavgguy I.E.
10/21/13 1:38 pm

Genocide: Noun the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

magnum
10/21/13 9:32 am

I was hoping the number of abortions would've been higher.

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EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 9:44 am

What's sick is that people would put little non humans before millions of actual humans being ripped from family, starved, beaten and had science experiments don on them!

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 9:45 am

When I get mad I don't type well :-)

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/21/13 9:47 am

If peradventure you could "visualize" the little non-humans as humans then perhaps you'd understand the passion on this side of the argument.

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 9:53 am

Sure I can imagine the potential, but that's ok. The only bad thing about death is the fear and pain of it. Little non people don't feel at 12 weeks, but 2 year olds and teens and grandparents all do! How horrid for them...

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 9:54 am

To see friends and family being tortured, knowing they were next

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/21/13 9:58 am

The weak and defenseless always have their positions relegated to "less feeling" and "less worthy" of protection. The holocaust is over but we can start protecting babies today.

ScottyDoesNo Stand back and stand by
10/21/13 10:02 am

The problem is we can see the suffering from Jews yet we can't see the life that was never lived. Growing up, falling in love, having children of your own: all cut off before it could ever begin. Tragedy.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/21/13 10:05 am

So how about this? We pass a law delaying all abortions until after the child has drawn their first picture worthy of being hung on the refrigerator?

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 10:06 am

You two are ridiculous!

Doopy Remedial Americanism
10/21/13 10:13 am

EB, you're essentially making a positive claim that no personhood exists in a fetus. Can you back that up? Or are you just being irresponsible with what you really don't know are not 50 million lives?

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 10:15 am

Doopy- quite honestly the numbers mean nothing to me. It's the tourtière and suffering that bother me.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
10/21/13 10:19 am

44 million deaths mean nothing to you? That's rather unsettling.

I mean, people on this app tell me I'm cruel for believing a man has the right to put his own dog down if he can't afford medical care...

SugarShaq
10/21/13 10:22 am

EB, look up pictures of abortion online and then state it's not torture and suffering. Try 20 weeks since that is now the legal cut off.

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 10:39 am

Sorry guys, don't need to look at 20 week old abortions. I only believe first trimester and at 12 weeks there is no pain.

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 10:42 am

I just went through and took all my likes off your comments.

teppofan Rt. 66 Hackberry, AZ
10/21/13 11:10 am

Ouch-no likes. In your opinion does that "hurt" or than being aborted?

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 11:31 am

Yep- that was my attempt of keeping things light.

Matt1981 The Who Dat Nation
10/21/13 11:40 am

That's the problem with these polls and I usually avoid them because its really hard to make light of the practice of murdering children.

Evseng2
10/21/13 11:56 am

I'm sorry.. But you look at the people condemning EB.

Scotty, Okie, thelategreatUSA, and Doopy..
Only one of which ISNT talking out the ass and IS a logical minded person.

Evseng2
10/21/13 11:59 am

That's what's great about this app.. It's all opinionated!

You can tell EB she's wrong until you can't type anymore but the fact of the matter is, she believes what she believes and that's her opinion.

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 11:59 am

Matt- usually just the opposite is true. Usually by now someone is calling the other one an idiot and making personal attacks. I prefer these calm debates.

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 12:02 pm

Wow evs, Ty.

Evs, just know for future reference if you and I disagree, it's ok. I promise to debate you with respect and hope you will do the same. :-)

SugarShaq
10/21/13 12:02 pm

I am not condemning EB. I used to have her views, so I understand her views. But I now happen to disagree with her on this issue, and I think it's a good discussion.

Evseng2
10/21/13 12:02 pm

None of you understand.. Only the few sickos on this planet are pro abortion.

A lot of people know it's wrong but our pro choice.

But yet, the pro life people condemn everyone else because they must be satan.

SugarShaq
10/21/13 12:03 pm

And I like EB very much.

ScottyDoesNo Stand back and stand by
10/21/13 12:04 pm

EB, somebody has called you an idiot? You, *the* EB? This is unacceptable. I want a name and address and I will beat them up for you.

SugarShaq
10/21/13 12:08 pm

Evs...we are doing nothing to stop it either, even with all of the SCIENCE and medication to control getting pregnant to begin with.

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 12:08 pm

USA and Scotty are both great!
I'm in this strange predicament where I'm very conservative fiscally yet socially very liberal. As seen today, the people usually in my corner are now the ones I'm debating. It feels very uncomfortable yet a little fun

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/21/13 12:17 pm

This has been a civil discussion and everybody knows that I love EB, as do you guys too. It appears that only one person has resorted to personal attacks thus far.

Matt1981 The Who Dat Nation
10/21/13 12:23 pm

Just because people are level headed and responding in a mature manner it doesn't make the things being said any less intense or critical. You can't make light of murdering children. You can debate it like an adult.

Evseng2
10/21/13 12:26 pm

Touché okie.

Btw: you were my "one person" I singled out in my comment.
I know you and EB have a thing, man.

Matt1981 The Who Dat Nation
10/21/13 12:26 pm

I guess I should also add that I too love everyone here. LOL

Evseng2
10/21/13 12:28 pm

Btw: EB, if you and I ever disagree..
You know what you're talking about. Lol

Matt- I'll also add, love comes from my end as well.. Despite my comment.

Besides.. Scotty knows I have a hidden love for him

ScottyDoesNo Stand back and stand by
10/21/13 12:41 pm

Wait, fiscally conservative yet socially liberal? Is EB a closet Libertarian?!

Matt1981 The Who Dat Nation
10/21/13 12:42 pm

Sounds that way to me. :)

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 4:11 pm

Scotty and Matt- hell no!

magnum
10/21/13 5:48 pm

I love how oakie of all people said "that's sick" he's like the king of dirty jokes.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/21/13 5:51 pm

Some sexual innuendo and murdering babies are not analogous magnum.

magnum
10/21/13 6:30 pm

Guess we discovered oakies limit.

magnum
10/21/13 6:30 pm

Yes I realize my phone keeps auto correcting your name wrong. Sorry.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/21/13 6:31 pm

What limit are you referring to?

magnum
10/21/13 6:31 pm

Abortion isn't "murdering babies" btw.

magnum
10/21/13 6:32 pm

Limit to humor. Apparently abortion jokes cross the line for you.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
10/21/13 6:39 pm

I disagree. Murdering babies is EXACTLY what abortion is.

magnum
10/21/13 6:40 pm

Last I checked abortion clinics weren't taking babies off their mothers breast and killing them.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/21/13 6:41 pm

Yes. That's the limit for me. Thanks for clarifying.

magnum
10/21/13 6:42 pm

It was simply a dark joke. Everyone freaks out over questions like this and I was simply trying to add some humor.

MrMilkdud
10/21/13 9:27 am

A society should be judged by how they treat their most defenseless, innocent members- who is more defenseless and innocent than an unborn child?
Our killing them by the tens of millions is itself a holocaust worse than any the world has seen.

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jvc1133 61535
10/21/13 7:49 am

As alive and functional human beings and families no contest

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Evseng2
10/21/13 8:02 am

That can still go both ways.

Thanks to the Holocaust.. Those 6 millions Jews (and for the kids.. Their future kids) aren't alive and functioning

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 8:41 am

Evs- whose poll is this?

Evseng2
10/21/13 8:43 am

Oh I know!
Scottydoesknow.. The king of trolling and bias.

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 8:48 am

That's right! Thank you :)

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 8:51 am

Evs- your comment to j isn't true. You left out all the terror and psychological as well as physical torture the Jews were put through before death finally relieved them.

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 9:13 am

There he is!!

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 9:14 am

Scotty how did you vote?

ScottyDoesNo Stand back and stand by
10/21/13 9:20 am

Clearly abortion. It sickens me to think 70% of my followers think the mass murder of 50 million babies isn't the greatest genocide in human history. And it's estimated worldwide over a billion people have died due to abortion.

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 9:27 am

Scotty- WHAT?!? I must have read that wrong. Which is worse between the two?

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/21/13 9:37 am

Abortion is worse. No comparison.

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 9:40 am

Ok fine! I'm divorcing both of you !

jvc1133 61535
10/21/13 9:53 am

That was interesting ?

ScottyDoesNo Stand back and stand by
10/21/13 9:59 am

Explain your logic EB. Six million Jews vs. one billion dead via abortion and you think the former is worse?

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 10:02 am

Scotty- do you think this country would be better off with a billion more people right now? Really?

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 10:04 am

Who are the people having abortions? College students? Doctors? Scientists?
No, they are kids who can't afford to have babies. I billion more sucking off the system. You sure you want that?

JennaAwesome Book Lover
10/21/13 7:16 am

Holocaust definitely

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Cole12 ...
10/21/13 7:15 am

As I don't believe abortion can in any way, shape, or form be compared to genocide, I'll go with the Holocaust.

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Evseng2
10/21/13 8:01 am

I agree with you.
Hitler was out to kill Jews just for the hell out it.
Only about 1% of women who get an abortion do it for the hell out it. The others have certain circumstances.

SugarShaq
10/21/13 8:22 am

With BC pills & patches (free at any PP), condoms in the 7-11 etc. There is absolutely no reason for our country to have 1.4 million abortions per year.

Rosebud Ohio
10/21/13 8:28 am

Ev, untrue. 2-3% are for incest, rape, and "life of the mother/child".

Evseng2
10/21/13 8:34 am

Those aren't the ONLY special circumstances.

You're telling me that 97-98% are just because "the mother finds human life repulsive"

I think someone is being bias..

Matt1981 The Who Dat Nation
10/21/13 8:36 am

No more like the mother accepts no responsibility for her actions.

Evseng2
10/21/13 8:36 am

LategreatUSA.. There was absolutely no reason for the mass genocide against the Jews.. But guess what?
We had the holocaust.
So your comment does nothing to this argument

Evseng2
10/21/13 8:37 am

Matt.. If you think that's the only reason.. You need to wake up!

kscott516 Masks fail
10/21/13 8:49 am

Evs, what other circumstances are you referring to?

SugarShaq
10/21/13 9:10 am

My comment about birth control has nothing to do with this argument? How is that?

chickencookie Jihad Joe
10/21/13 9:22 am

Eve - only 1% of abortions are done on women who were raped- incest victims or life in danger. The other 99% are basically going WTF.

ScottyDoesNo Stand back and stand by
10/21/13 9:45 am

"Hitler was out to kill Jews just for the hell out it."

Just for the hell of it? Seriously, you've said some colossally stupid things in your day but this easily takes the cake.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
10/21/13 9:49 am

Hitler had justifications for what he did, too. In the end, no matter how you try and justify it, what matters is that millions of innocent human lives are taken, and many more have been taken by abortion than by Hitler.

Matt1981 The Who Dat Nation
10/21/13 10:24 am

The problem is that abortions are now viewed by some as an acceptable form of birth control. I know a girl that has three. She is still sleeping around and not using protection.

Evseng2
10/21/13 11:53 am

So you're gonna use that one slut as an example of everyone?
That's smart..
Shouldn't take life lessons from this girl.

That's what I meant by my 1%
Probably only 1% of women use in as regular birth control

kscott516 Masks fail
10/21/13 12:10 pm

Most statistics put repeat abortions around 34-45% which puts a relatively high number on those that essentially use it as contraception.

TopsQueen Oregon Coast
10/21/13 7:15 am

Holocaust is by far worse. They also murdered anyone less-than-perfect. The same group of people some abortionists push to get rid of nowadays. The retarded, mentally handicapped, physically handicapped.
At five months after conception my

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TopsQueen Oregon Coast
10/21/13 7:17 am

granddaughter was aborted. She did not have most of her scull, she not have most of her brain. I stood by her parents in their choice.

Mattwall1
10/21/13 7:31 am

Basically anyone hitler didn't like, the majority being Jews but also Slavs gays communists socialists union leaders, mentally and physically handicapped and intellectuals.

cathyro Long Beach,Ca
10/21/13 7:43 am

I'm so sorry!! It is wonderful that your family was able to stand together and support each other at such a sad time. I work for a major hospital and I know not all families do...

icytoes the tepid north
10/21/13 7:12 am

They are both horrific. This is a loaded question. I had to vote for one in order to say neither. The results are therefore garbage.

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SugarShaq
10/21/13 7:39 am

I agree icy. They are both horrific and wrong. I cannot choose one over the other.

icytoes the tepid north
10/21/13 7:41 am

This is the only type of pole that I actually rate badly – when there is no single answer that can be given yet I am forced into an possible choice

SugarShaq
10/21/13 7:58 am

But I have to choose abortion because as much as it breaks my heart, the holocaust is history I cannot change.

icytoes the tepid north
10/21/13 8:01 am

Late that is an amazing way to make a miserable choice. I'll follow suit.

teppofan Rt. 66 Hackberry, AZ
10/21/13 11:21 am

I love you both! This is the most insightful dialogue on this poll.

TempName14 Everywhere but nowhere
10/21/13 6:59 am

The rights of an unborn child are the last great civil rights issue. We need to protect them and be decent human beings when it comes to their rights.

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Mattwall1
10/21/13 6:49 am

What's even worse is Talmud states a woman who will lose her life if she doesn't abort has a duty to, unless the fetus is being born (so no partial birth abortions but anything before to save the mother) and interestingly also according to Talmudic

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Mattwall1
10/21/13 6:50 am

Law, fetus' are considered a being of "doubtful viability" and considered a part of the mothers body, especially. For religious rituals.
While Im not a practicing Jew, not only is this comparison wrong on so many other fronts from basic decent historical knowledge etc, even the rabbis would've understood certain situations

Mattwall1
10/21/13 6:51 am

Basically in essence stop this Madness of comparing the two

Mattwall1
10/21/13 8:02 am

I have to head to class but here is one Niddah 44b)

SugarShaq
10/21/13 8:45 am

I do read this in Niddah Matt: "But what was the point of speaking of a 'child' seeing that the same applies even to an embryo, for it is written".

Mattwall1
10/21/13 9:18 am

We both know language evolved not everyone knew r knows everything and that take any scripture anywhere and you'll see contradictions. That's the verse or said it was in so of you found it said something else....

SugarShaq
10/21/13 9:28 am

Matt, you don't have to agree with a party on every issue to be part of that party. The horror of abortion in no way negates or overrides the horror of the Holocaust. But we can and should all work to reduce the huge numbers of abortions our country.

SugarShaq
10/21/13 9:36 am

And Matt, I think I already mentioned this to you, but you gotta watch The Third Reich: Rise and Fall on the history channel. I watched it this weekend. Chilling.

Mattwall1
10/21/13 9:55 am

You don't mention that but I have seen it. Still even comparing the two implies that the two are equal especially considering some things Scotty said

SugarShaq
10/21/13 10:14 am

He didn't say equal, he said "worse." They are both absolutely horrific, but I chose the one happening in my lifetime that can still be stopped.

Mattwall1
10/21/13 11:52 am

And only one is actually worse and that is and always shall be the holocaust

adam2890 Denver
10/21/13 6:30 am

The Jews of Europe didn't take my tax dollars for wick, EBT, and all of the other free gifts I'm forced to give parents and children of the unaborted.

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SugarShaq
10/21/13 7:48 am

Hitler believed that Jews were taking the jobs and wealth from other Germans.

stefanie22 Cincinnati
10/21/13 6:17 am

There were millions of fetuses aborted prior to Roe v Wade, the only difference is now women can do it in the safety of a doctor's office vs a back alley with a coat hanger.

Roe v Wade saved lives (those of the already living)

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Octopus
10/21/13 6:44 am

^ All please note this important point.

aj1545 Cat Lady
10/21/13 6:48 am

Finally, some sanity!

Doopy Remedial Americanism
10/21/13 9:55 am

Before the "Tuesday is kill your neighbor day" bill passed, all murder was a dangerous proposition. It had to be done in back alleys by people of dubious professional qualification, or even on your own! That bill saved lives!

Doopy Remedial Americanism
10/21/13 9:55 am

Homicide should've remained illegal.

aj1545 Cat Lady
10/21/13 11:44 am

Sorry Doopy, can't read your comments so can't reply. Ignored since the thread you acted like an asshole about my being raped.

stefanie22 Cincinnati
10/21/13 11:49 am

It's not homicide, the fetus cannot survive without a host, therefore terminating it is not murder.

kscott516 Masks fail
10/21/13 6:14 am

For all of the "it's just human cells" folks I would direct you back to Bio 101.

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Posco BBQ Enthusiast
10/21/13 6:15 am

To prove that they're right?

stefanie22 Cincinnati
10/21/13 6:18 am

Yeah I'm pretty sure you mean theology 101

kscott516 Masks fail
10/21/13 6:24 am

No I definitely mean Bio 101. Here is a link that sounds right in your understanding wheelhouse.

www.biology4kids.com/extras/video/cells_cellsystorg.html

Octopus
10/21/13 6:45 am

Kscott, just curious, but how much biology have you actually taken?

kscott516 Masks fail
10/21/13 6:59 am

I graduated college with a bachelor's in biology and continued working on my master's in public health until I was accepted to medical school a year later so quite a bit.

Posco BBQ Enthusiast
10/21/13 8:09 am

Nice, congratulations on accomplishing that (not sarcastic). What do you believe is the separating factor that makes them more than human cells?

kscott516 Masks fail
10/21/13 8:20 am

Cells are just the building blocks of life that make up tissues, organs, and systems. We are all made up of cells. A fetus is still a human being in one of the earliest stages of development, which continues throughout our entire lives. Our skin

kscott516 Masks fail
10/21/13 8:22 am

sheds cells forever. Our brains continue to make new synapses. Our lungs can heal themselves if a smoker stops before irreparable harm is done. Break a bone and if set properly it will heal good as new.

Posco BBQ Enthusiast
10/21/13 8:26 am

Do you believe they have equivalent rights as of conception or further along in development?

kscott516 Masks fail
10/21/13 8:39 am

I feel they should have equivalent rights from conception. They are human beings too and cannot grow to be anything else.

Posco BBQ Enthusiast
10/21/13 8:43 am

I don't fully agree with you but thank you for taking the time to explain your ideas.

kscott516 Masks fail
10/21/13 8:45 am

Thank you for the respectful discussion.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
10/21/13 9:56 am

No one here has ever met anyone who was not "just a clump of cells". Clumps of cells have VALUE.

kspells TheOtherOtherside
10/21/13 6:02 am

Which would you rather have to take care of? 6 million Jews in Germany or 50 million unwanted children in the U.S.? I think 6 million is a low # but I see how it works for the poll.

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Mattwall1
10/21/13 6:20 am

Are you implying we should've done nothing about the 6 million Jews (not to mention the 5 million others) killed by genocide or am I misinterpreting?

Rosebud Ohio
10/21/13 8:31 am

So you see them as beneficial, because we don't have to take care of worthless people? Please tell me I read that wrong...

kspells TheOtherOtherside
10/21/13 9:05 pm

Mattwall1 sorry I'm late w/ my response i think at least 9 mil. Jews were killed, we should of done something sooner. If Hitler never existed these Jews would have been capable of productive self supporting lives. I'm referring to how can we as a

kspells TheOtherOtherside
10/21/13 9:06 pm

Country afford the effort. If you are comparing by today's standards.

kspells TheOtherOtherside
10/21/13 9:10 pm

Rosebud you are not misinterpreting. Abortions don't have anything to do with me or you so I don't see them as beneficial. Just FYI there is no money to take care of the wanted people in this country.

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 6:01 am

Torturing and painfully murdering people is much worse than flushing a thimble of
blood and human cells down the toilet.

This isn't even a question.

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SugarShaq
10/21/13 6:02 am

A thimble?

Posco BBQ Enthusiast
10/21/13 6:03 am

I didn't think it was much of a debate either.

robbyjr04
10/21/13 6:08 am

You are disgusting. But what would one expect from an elitist Oregon liberal...

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 6:14 am

Elitist Oregon liberal?
Hmmm... shouldn't make assumptions like that.

Evseng2
10/21/13 8:05 am

Robby... Don't make assumptions.

Rosebud Ohio
10/21/13 8:33 am

Early, that would only be accurate in something extremely early, ie plan b preventing implantation of a fertilized cell. Otherwise, there's a lot more to the e/f, and usually includes ripping and tearing limb from limb, burning, and other things otherwise called torture.

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 8:39 am

Rose- you and I have debated this before and I respect your opinion. We have to agree to disagree.

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 8:47 am

Robby - I will address you since I don't know you. Am I to assume you voted abortions are worse than what Hitler did to millions of people and families?

kscott516 Masks fail
10/21/13 8:56 am

EB, you're level-headed and intelligent. Abortive techniques are quite gruesome no matter the stage. The late term abortions are especially horrendous as they snip the spines or rip off the heads of screaming babies. It makes me ill just saying it.

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 9:01 am

K- I am 100% against late term abortions!
I believe that abortions can be done through the first trimester in a clean, simple procedure. I don't believe the embryo at that stage is a baby.

kscott516 Masks fail
10/21/13 9:08 am

By week 8 the heart, lungs, head, and arms/legs have begun to develop and are fully recognizable. It is definitely not a clean, simple, nor safe procedure to do a D/C. I worked in an OR and have watched these procedures.

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 9:23 am

K- as with everything, you say that and I can show reports showing something else. My point here is to say I cannot believe anyone would choose abortions over the. Holocaust .

kscott516 Masks fail
10/21/13 9:46 am

Sure and I could find evidence to support gassing to be humane though I would still argue against it.

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 9:59 am

C'mon k, there were far worse things going on than gassing. If you were lucky, you got gassed. If you weren't, you were forced to watch your child being put I to an oven to be baked alive. Or being used as a human experiment.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
10/21/13 10:01 am

Oh. I guess setting of an H-bomb in Hong Kong would be okay too, then. After all, thermonuclear vaporization is a cleaner, much more humane death than an abortion.

Or maybe it's wrong to kill innocents, regardless of how painful the death is.

kscott516 Masks fail
10/21/13 10:09 am

So are you saying killing is only abominable if it is painful?

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 10:12 am

I'm saying being dead is ok. People usually fear the process. When you're dead, you don't know you're dear. You just are!

EarlyBird Portland
10/21/13 10:13 am

Doopy - kind of a cool concept.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
10/21/13 10:15 am

No one's saying being dead is wrong, but it's wrong to make someone dead if they've done nothing to deserve it.

isusd5
10/21/13 5:57 am

Both are horrible. One was a result of hate. The other a result of misinformation and information manipulation. Holocaust is definitely worse.

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HayleyS looking up.
10/21/13 5:59 am

Right.. I think intent definitelyyyy matters here.

HayleyS looking up.
10/21/13 6:00 am

And I'm not being sarcastic lol

WillametteKevin Mossopolis
10/21/13 6:02 am

There is intent in each case.

isusd5
10/21/13 6:10 am

I agree but I think the majority of abortions are a result of society telling women that unplanned pregnancy will ruin your life and abortion is just removing cells, not ending a life. Women deserve better than this.

WillametteKevin Mossopolis
10/21/13 6:37 am

I believe that every life has a purpose, regardless of how the birth came about.

Posco BBQ Enthusiast
10/21/13 5:52 am

An embryo is not the same as grown human. Flush it out if it's going to be a larger problem on society once it's born.

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SugarShaq
10/21/13 7:49 am

What about the rest of people that are a burden on society, instead on a contributor to society?

Posco BBQ Enthusiast
10/21/13 8:05 am

I understand what you're saying but that's broader than what my message was intended to be. If a poor single woman who can't support herself gets pregnant, the baby would become a burden on more than just the woman.

Posco BBQ Enthusiast
10/21/13 8:06 am

If she believes it is in the best interest to have an abortion then she should be able to. Of course she should not be having sex in the first place if she couldn't support a child but we know that is not a realistic idea that everyone follows.

SugarShaq
10/21/13 8:32 am

Then why not abort babies of the poor and let the babies of the rich live? (by this logic)

Posco BBQ Enthusiast
10/21/13 8:38 am

Haha I don't believe someone should force another to have an abortion. Refer to my last comment in the first sentence where I said "If she believes it is in the best interest to have an abortion then she should be able to."

Liberty 4,032,064
10/21/13 5:50 am

This has to be one of the most brilliant polls I've seen. The irony of the comments is overwhelming.

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Mattwall1
10/21/13 6:23 am

Please explain the brilliance of this poll to me.

Liberty 4,032,064
10/21/13 6:26 am

Look up and down at these comments saying that the victims of "abortion" just aren't human or are inferior in some other way. Scotty has these people making the same arguments as proponents if the holocaust, revealing the nature of "abortion."

Liberty 4,032,064
10/21/13 6:27 am

All in a poll that even mentions the Holocaust as a direct comparison. The irony is staggering.

Mattwall1
10/21/13 6:28 am

Ah I see you actually believe the concept the holocaust and abortion can be compared, are in any way similar, that people who are pro choice are nazis, etc. I have a survivor in my family and I know a few others. They are pro choice. Are they somehow nazis?

Liberty 4,032,064
10/21/13 6:29 am

No Matt. But in this regard, the arguments for killing a specific demographic are the same.

Mattwall1
10/21/13 6:32 am

I must differ, and I don't think anyone with family or friends that were victims, or just knows enough about the holocaust to know they aren't truly comparable, could ever think that way. This is nothing but a scare tactic by the "pro life" faction to make pro choicers appear as nazis.

Liberty 4,032,064
10/21/13 6:34 am

No one said that they are fully comparable. You're getting too hung up on emption and thinking that it is an extreme comparison to actually look at the logic in both arguments.

Liberty 4,032,064
10/21/13 6:36 am

It is acceptable to kill "X" type of person because that person is inhuman and/or inferior in some way to others.

Mattwall1
10/21/13 6:36 am

I admit I have a bias here, but I do know people who feel its completely and 100% comparable

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
10/21/13 5:45 am

One was tortured men, women, and children. The other...

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SugarShaq
10/21/13 5:57 am

One is tortured and killed men, women and children. The other is tortured and killed children, and the 70,000 women per year in the world that die from abortion complications.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
10/21/13 6:32 am

It is sad that you equate the suffering of holocaust victims to fetuses. One was a group of INDEPENDENT, grown children and adults that went through torture, medical testing, and gas chambers/ovens. Killing children is murder, late.

kscott516 Masks fail
10/21/13 7:02 am

So we can kill dependents like those in comas or kids under 1 yr that can't take care of themselves?

Rosebud Ohio
10/21/13 8:37 am

You're planning value of life of age. Are other ashes also more important, or is birth the only milestone that sets a person as being worthy of living? Wondering, as I've seen the same thinking applied to elderly and infants...

wookiecookie
10/21/13 5:26 am

Let's see.. A group of children, women and men grotesquely and openly tortured to the point of death over a period of time vs. a termination of a fetus that has yet to even be.
C'mon now.

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chickencookie Jihad Joe
10/21/13 5:22 am

On a side note Planned Parenthood celebrated their 97th anniversary last week. Their announcement featured a cupcake with a candle in it. Somewhere from hell Josef Mengele is lifting a champagne glass in approval.

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SugarShaq
10/21/13 5:36 am

Yes, especially since the PP founder started abortion as black population control. And succeeded, since it
they are 40% of all abortion, but only 14% of the population.

SugarShaq
10/21/13 5:58 am

"We should apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is tainted, or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring." Founder of Planned Parenthood.

SugarShaq
10/21/13 6:01 am

"We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."

She is the female Hitler.

SugarShaq
10/21/13 8:28 am

And how incredibly ironic, millions of children who will ever have a cupcake with a candle on it. That ad sounds sadistic.

SugarShaq
10/21/13 8:38 am

Never*

chickencookie Jihad Joe
10/21/13 8:51 am

Exactly lategreat. They fail to see the irony.

FrankH Topeka, Westboro
10/21/13 5:20 am

Abortion is not the same. You ass

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swjboucher Just Run
10/21/13 5:25 am

Through a well thought out and articulated argument, I would say you have won the debate congratulations.

lectrik Silly gas guzzling Prius
10/21/13 5:45 am

The difference is the brain actually works by that point. I didn't say it isn't life a until the brain is fully developed

SugarShaq
10/21/13 7:36 am

So, the gauge for life used to be a beating heart. That argument was not working so now pro abortionists changed it to brain development?

lectrik Silly gas guzzling Prius
10/21/13 7:39 am

The brain is what makes you. Without a brain there is only a body. The "Soul" is the brain.

swjboucher Just Run
10/21/13 7:39 am

Lategreat
When have progressives not moved the target?

lectrik Silly gas guzzling Prius
10/21/13 7:43 am

Things change. The more facts the more accurate we see things. It isn't about a progressive thing.

SugarShaq
10/21/13 7:55 am

So true swj. Ever moving targets. Make extremes in society acceptable then go for the next extreme. Up next: The elderly, a burden on society, do away with them quickly.

ScottyDoesNo Stand back and stand by
10/21/13 9:17 am

JoeMiller, I cede the floor to you. You have clearly won the debate.

lectrik Silly gas guzzling Prius
10/21/13 5:17 am

an embryo or a fetus is nor a life

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SugarShaq
10/21/13 5:28 am

By that logic, it is dead. Although all organs are in tact and a heart is beating at 6 weeks.

lectrik Silly gas guzzling Prius
10/21/13 5:31 am

The brain isn't developed until the last half of the pregnancy at an significant amount. Are brain dead people "alive"

SugarShaq
10/21/13 5:38 am

The brain does not complete development until after teenage years. Are teenagers dead?

lectrik Silly gas guzzling Prius
10/21/13 7:33 am

Read above comment. posted on wrong thread

Liberty 4,032,064
10/21/13 5:10 am

Interesting question.
I say that all are created equal, so the only difference here is in quantity.

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Mattwall1
10/21/13 5:08 am

Anyone that says blue better go to the us holocaust memorial website

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cass95 Jesus 2021
10/21/13 5:10 am

Matt, ANY loss of life is senseless. Period.

Mattwall1
10/21/13 5:13 am

Forgetting the fact , pro choice, this comparison is honestly nothing but a baseless senseless, idiotic attempt to get those wavering to somehow believe abortion is the holocaust. Forgive me, but Scotty is being a horrible troll and I honestly wish I hadn't seen this at all.

SugarShaq
10/21/13 5:20 am

Matt, one could say the nazis made a "choice." Both are beyond horrific and equally indicative of the capabilities of the human heart. There is no right or wrong answer here.

Posco BBQ Enthusiast
10/21/13 5:40 am

Matt is correct. Saying that abortion is equal to the holocaust is not true and I'm sure you both realize why.

jrobin51
10/21/13 5:07 am

Source for that data on abortion?

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SugarShaq
10/21/13 5:33 am

Scotty's number is total abortions in USA over time. But here is one:

"An estimated 44 million abortions are performed globally each year"

cass95 Jesus 2021
10/21/13 4:58 am

Very interesting way to look at this, Scotty.

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