Show of HandsShow of Hands

SFLiberal October 20th, 2013 9:33pm

A black woman walking home alone at night sees a 6'5" white man walking down the sidewalk toward her. She quickly crosses to the other side of the street. Is she being appropriately cautious or scared and bigoted?

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camigirl
10/20/13 5:52 pm

Since this was in response to Kermie's poll, if she acts the same to a white man as she would a black one, it's not bigoted. It's doing whatever she wants to do to make herself feel safer. However, contrary to what people think on this app, white and

camigirl
10/20/13 5:53 pm

black men have entirely different stigmas, especially when it comes to crime. So I think having race included in the question is indeed relevant and fair.

SFLiberal
10/20/13 6:00 pm

You're totally right. It just bothered me that people would say the woman was bigoted when she's clearly looking out for her safety.

Octopus
10/20/13 6:05 pm

I agree that there are different stigmas, but I don't think a woman being cautionary regardless of race makes her bigoted toward men in general, either. It's an unfortunate result of the society we live in, but hopefully one day it will no longer be.

camigirl
10/20/13 6:18 pm

I agree. Theres a large difference between "there's a man who makes me feel nervous, I'll avoid him" and "this man is black which means he probably will hurt me." My problem is when people like to pretend the second statement never happens. My other

camigirl
10/20/13 6:19 pm

problem is when people try to tell women what to do and not to do when it comes to her own safety. Some women easily feel threatened, others don't, but all should be able to do what they see fit.

SFLiberal
10/20/13 6:29 pm

Based on the results from both polls, people said its more sensible for a black woman to cross the street. Why do you think that is?

camigirl
10/20/13 6:42 pm

I honestly can't say, that interests me a lot though!

SFLiberal
10/20/13 6:44 pm

Even though more people voted on kermie's poll, I admittedly kept my eye on it all day and the results were consistently like that.

kermie gaytopia
10/20/13 4:25 pm

Unless the man is doing something alarming she's also being a bigot, suspecting him because he's a man and not based on any actual facts.

SFLiberal
10/20/13 4:35 pm

Regardless of race, how does bigotry even relate to a safety issue such as this one?

Octopus
10/20/13 4:41 pm

I beg to differ, and this is really beginning to come across as blaming the victim, Kermie. How are women supposed to win? If she's cautious, she's a bigot. If she isn't, the man may not "do something alarming" until it's too late to be cautious.

kermie gaytopia
10/20/13 5:59 pm

Sorry, I'm just going to back out now. We'll have to disagree. I admit I may be totally off base here as I've never had this experience. I defer to you.

Octopus
10/20/13 6:03 pm

You were implying that a woman should wait until she becomes a victim, because any other precautionary measures would be bigoted. But I understand. I usually agree with everything you say, Kermie, just not this time. No hard feelings. :-)

kermie gaytopia
10/20/13 6:21 pm

Well we still have 66%+ agreement ;)

I'm curious, do you have different reactions to men at night given their behaviors? Or is it uniform?

Octopus
10/20/13 6:25 pm

It probably isn't entirely uniform but based on what I pick up from them. I usually just notice their presence, our location, etc. I would be much more aware if I was walking toward somewhere it felt strange/unlikely for him to be going as well. But

Octopus
10/20/13 6:28 pm

the race factor wouldn't concern me. His size would, or the way he walked. I wish I didn't have to worry about these things, but I can't help to. We still live in a fairly male-dominated society, where the media often portrays women as objects from

Octopus
10/20/13 6:28 pm

which men can take what they desire. And that isn't men's fault; it's just the nature of what's been ingrained into our thoughts and actions for ages. I think we are making progress though, but we aren't quite there yet.

suzisnowflake A pleasant peninsula
10/20/13 6:39 pm

At night, I would think of everyone as a threat: man, woman or beast. I don't actually care what you think that makes me, because I know I am more safe than if I wait around for them to make the first move.

suzisnowflake A pleasant peninsula
10/20/13 3:38 pm

I was raised to be cautious especially at night and it makes sense to cross the street if you feel threatened. 6 foot 5 men are simply going to be intimidating, race aside.

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aj1545 Cat Lady
10/20/13 3:33 pm

Any woman in that situation is just being cautious. That's the society we live in.

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MJSeals Esq.
10/20/13 3:18 pm

Flip the races around and the women would be a bigot

SFLiberal
10/20/13 3:20 pm

That's exactly how kermie's poll turned out.

JustBob Your anger fascinates me
10/20/13 3:17 pm

Suspicious doesn't mean bigoted

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SFLiberal
10/20/13 3:22 pm

I was copying kermie's poll. I switched the races of the people to see if the results would be completely different, and so far they are.

JustBob Your anger fascinates me
10/20/13 3:54 pm

Ah, gotcha, found his poll, still feel the same way regardless, weird though how the results are different

bringstheeagle Colorado
10/20/13 2:52 pm

Depends whether she would respond similarly with a black man.

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dawl adulting
10/20/13 2:49 pm

I don't care if it's Mr. Rogers himself coming toward me, you better have your wits about you, always.

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Octopus
10/20/13 2:49 pm

I like this response.

Kay41 the Midwest
10/20/13 3:13 pm

Yes! Dawl said it just right. I will never apologize for crossing the street no matter what man is approaching me. My safety is much more important than hurting a stranger's feelings. Any real man would understand this reaction from a woman.

SFLiberal
10/20/13 3:14 pm

I'm sort of big so I completely understand why a woman might be cautious if she didn't know me.

kelsey498 Colorado
10/20/13 2:48 pm

The races of the two people don't matter. If it were me walking home alone at night and I saw a man walking toward me, I would cross the street too.

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SugarShaq
10/20/13 3:10 pm

Me too. I think women are raised to think that way and there is an innate self protection that has zero to do with race.

kelsey498 Colorado
10/20/13 3:13 pm

Completely agree. Well said!

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
10/20/13 2:47 pm

My friend wanted to cross the street when we saw a group 8 black, homeless dudes. I told him to man up.

jmz1202 Sacramento
10/20/13 2:47 pm

Thank you for this poll. It's bothered me that some might think I'm paranoid or racist to say I'd cross the street.

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jmz1202 Sacramento
10/20/13 2:47 pm

I'm speaking of Kermie's poll.

zman117 Ohio
10/20/13 2:48 pm

As long as you do that for both you are not racist

SFLiberal
10/20/13 2:50 pm

It's a natural instinct for someone to want to cross the street. I feel like Kermie made it into more of a race issue than a safety issue.

jmz1202 Sacramento
10/20/13 2:53 pm

That's what I thought too. It's a mote point in my case. When I'm walking at night, I have my 105lb dog with me. Other people cross the street to get away from us.

SFLiberal
10/20/13 2:55 pm

Really? What kind of dog is it?

jmz1202 Sacramento
10/20/13 2:58 pm

He's a German shepherd and Great Pyrenees mix.

SFLiberal
10/20/13 3:02 pm

I think I'd only cross the street if it was a pitbull.

jmz1202 Sacramento
10/20/13 3:41 pm

He can be pretty intimidating.

kermie gaytopia
10/20/13 4:25 pm

How did *I* make it into anything? I simply asked a question.

SFLiberal
10/20/13 4:33 pm

Because you included race.

kermie gaytopia
10/20/13 5:52 pm

Right. To see if people thought it was an issue or not.

zman117 Ohio
10/20/13 2:46 pm

It really doesn't matter either way. I understand if you think m that there is a security concern. But if you do it for the black guy you sure better for the white guy too.

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Kay41 the Midwest
10/20/13 2:41 pm

Both...sensible to take precautions for her safety. I would do this for anyone I saw when I was walking alone at night.

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Octopus
10/20/13 2:39 pm

I still can't grasp how people think it is ridiculous of a woman to be concerned about her safety when it is a legitimate concern -- women go through bad experiences all the time. It isn't "suspicious"; it's being alert.

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SFLiberal
10/20/13 2:39 pm

Did you see kermie's poll earlier?

Octopus
10/20/13 2:41 pm

Yes. I've commented on it multiple times. It is making me upset that he is downplaying women's intelligence and using the false logic that it is unlikely and that there are bigger things to worry about, so one shouldn't worry at all.

SFLiberal
10/20/13 2:43 pm

I want to see if people will call the black woman a bigot or not. I totally agree with you. It's not a race issue, it's a safety issue.

Octopus
10/20/13 2:48 pm

I do understand that there are stigmas against black men that white men don't face, but regarding this issue, it's about the WOMAN and analyzing a potential threat, which includes ALL men. And that certainly doesn't make her bigoted.

Octopus
10/20/13 2:48 pm

Good poll and I look forward to seeing how the results play out.

kermie gaytopia
10/20/13 4:28 pm

It's not about intelligence. It's about how we are collectively trained to be afraid of things as a society not in correlation to the actual risk. We're more afraid of terrorism than of heart disease. This to me is another angle of the same problem.

kermie gaytopia
10/20/13 4:29 pm

Now as I admitted, I'm not a woman and I've never been in fear of being assaulted.

I just see how fear runs our country, our government, our society. I just encourage people to assess actual risk, not bogeymen.

Octopus
10/20/13 4:36 pm

Women are assaulted on a daily basis. Women are catcalled on the streets and made nervous constantly. I wouldn't compare that to terrorism. And yes, that is a problem due to society, but it's a real one. Women shouldn't HAVE to worry about these...

Octopus
10/20/13 4:37 pm

issues, but they do, because large portions of society still enforce the reasoning that it's somehow okay. But that aside, how would you suggest we analyze the actual risk? Because much of the time, the risk isn't apparent until it's too late. You...

Octopus
10/20/13 4:38 pm

can't easily tell who is a threat and who isn't a lot of the time until you are already in danger. So what would you suggest?

kermie gaytopia
10/20/13 5:53 pm

As I already stated, I would carry mace, I wouldn't be out alone at night, etc. I would prepare ahead of time if I really thought it was a danger.

kermie gaytopia
10/20/13 5:54 pm

And anyway, women aren't assaulted by strangers on the sidewalk *all the time.* It's much more likely to be someone they know.

Octopus
10/20/13 5:58 pm

I don't have the option to just *never* be alone at night, and shouldn't be expected to just because I am a woman. I shouldn't have to be told to choose between my safety and my ambitions. I would rather be cautious than never be allowed to live my..

Octopus
10/20/13 5:59 pm

own life, and I am not going to be called a bigot for that. Furthermore, yes, most rapes do occur from someone the woman knows. But like I said earlier, I receive multiple alerts a WEEK about muggings and sexual assaults that occur in the area in...

Octopus
10/20/13 6:00 pm

which I have to walk. So you certainly can't say that being concerned is unnecessary or that a situation isn't likely. I'm not going to just wait until something bad happens; I'm going to take preventative measures and be alert.

kermie gaytopia
10/20/13 6:02 pm

I don't mean to upset you. I respect your opinion a lot. I'll let it go.

Octopus
10/20/13 6:18 pm

It's all fine, Kermie. I deeply respect yours, too. I just think this is an unfortunate byproduct of the norms of the society we live in, but hopefully it will one day be better with progress. Hope you're having a good evening.

kermie gaytopia
10/20/13 6:51 pm

Just watching Top Chef, doing student assessments, and blissful enjoying my male privilege. :) You?

Octopus
10/20/13 6:55 pm

Lol! Sounds like a pleasant evening. :-) Mine isn't so bad either. Currently taking a bubble bath and reviewing mechanisms for Organic Chemistry.

thewheel
10/20/13 2:37 pm

I don't care about the skin tone of the people, it's a fine precautionary measure to take.

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SFLiberal
10/20/13 2:39 pm

Kermie asked a similar question earlier, but it was with a white woman and black man. Everyone was saying the white woman was a bigot. I want to see if the results would change if the woman was black.

kermie gaytopia
10/20/13 4:26 pm

Actually almost no one said that. Interesting how you interpreted the comments through your own lens.

SFLiberal
10/20/13 4:55 pm

Specifically, it was MisterE, camigirl, your response to DrReids comment, and 56% of the democrats that voted.

SFLiberal
10/20/13 4:59 pm

And Kermie, look at the results of both polls. Can you explain why more people voted that the white woman was a bigot?