Show of HandsShow of Hands

Mattwall1 October 19th, 2013 8:20pm

For there to be true separation of church and state, the government must be out of religion, and religion must stay out of government.

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ModerateGOP26 Maine
10/19/13 1:39 pm

Agreed but the key distinction is religion. I have no problem (and neither does the Constitution) with things like "Under God" and "In God We Trust," as they favor any specific faith.

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ModerateGOP26 Maine
10/19/13 1:39 pm

As they DON'T favor any specific faith.*

MisterE Conservistan
10/19/13 1:57 pm

You could make the argument that they favor theism, but it also would favor atheism not to include them. Political correctness makes my brain hurt.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 1:58 pm

Personally I think under god and in god we trust are technically constitutional, although I think the spirit that got those put in (ie communists and atheists somehow equal another) are wrong on many levels.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 2:00 pm

I don't think it would favor atheism t not have them in, especially since the original pledge was written by a preacher and didn't include under god, and the motto was opting ally E Pluribus Unum, which has nothing to do with a deity in any sense

MisterE Conservistan
10/19/13 2:02 pm

Those people just wanted to do everything the opposite way the USSR was doing them.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 2:07 pm

You're right mr E, should in your opinion, should they be kept or removed?

MisterE Conservistan
10/19/13 2:07 pm

That makes sense. I guess it would have to say "One nation, not under some magical sky daddy that doesn't exist." for it to favor atheism.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 2:08 pm

Yeah, and that IMO would be just as wrong.

MisterE Conservistan
10/19/13 2:12 pm

I think it's wrong, but people have gotten used to it being there. Frankly, I think it wouldn't be worth the trouble to take it out.

DailyAtheist Religious polls
10/19/13 6:57 pm

I just always skip "under god" in the pledge and cross out "in god we trust" on my money.

ModerateGOP26 Maine
10/19/13 6:59 pm

Which is your right. I couldn't care less what you color on your dollar bills.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 9:00 pm

You cross out the in god we trust? I know many people even those that believe in a deity or deities who don't say under god out of principle, but crossing out something on money?

ModerateGOP26 Maine
10/19/13 9:32 pm

Quite obnoxious isn't it? I consider myself as someone who values science over faith but I believe in God due to my physics beliefs. I make no distinction between a creationist and an atheist who so blindly hates religion that he can't doubt his...

ModerateGOP26 Maine
10/19/13 9:33 pm

... own stance every now and then. Both are ignorant and refuse to engulf themselves in further knowledge.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 9:40 pm

The only way too learn is to be willing to question. And that goes for anything.

ModerateGOP26 Maine
10/19/13 9:45 pm

Completely after, Matt.

ModerateGOP26 Maine
10/19/13 10:34 pm

... What? Haha

Mattwall1
10/19/13 10:38 pm

What did you mean by completely after? Did you mean agree? If not, what did you mean?

ModerateGOP26 Maine
10/19/13 10:42 pm

Oh my God, haha ... definitely meant agree and didn't catch the mistake until now!

HayleyS looking up.
10/19/13 1:34 pm

The hard part about this though is that your religion helps shape your philosophies and ideas of morality. Your religion can have a great amount of influence on your decisions that might not seem directly related.. I feel like I'm being unclear.. Meh

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curly
10/19/13 1:39 pm

No I feel the exact same way. That's why I take it as religious authority out of govt. Religious convictions are impossible to separate, same with philosophical or moral convictions.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 2:10 pm

I'm meaning more from a direct point and more of the not using religion to directly create legislation. No one, certainly not myself, wants to stop personal convictions. There is a line, especially when people openly promote a religion OR irreligion, where you've crossed a line, at least IMO

Mattwall1
10/19/13 2:10 pm

I'm meaning more from a direct point and more of the not using religion to directly create legislation. No one, certainly not myself, wants to stop personal convictions. There is a line, especially when people openly promote a religion OR irreligion, where you've crossed a line, at least IMO

jonny323
10/19/13 3:01 pm

The way I see it is there is nothing wrong with religious beliefs inspiring laws, as long as those religious beliefs aren't the argument behind making it a law. Murder is a sin in most religions but there are clearly other reasons to make it illegal.

curly
10/19/13 1:32 pm

Agree. Govt authority out of religion, and religious authority out of govt.

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curly
10/19/13 1:34 pm

Influence however, in its broadest meaning, is impossible to separate without being oppressive.

curly
10/19/13 1:34 pm

Influence however, in its broadest meaning, is impossible to separate without being oppressive.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 1:59 pm

I'm meaning religious authority and using religion to dictate legislation. Not influence itself, that old be impossible to get rid of without becoming a worse evil

bringstheeagle Colorado
10/19/13 1:26 pm

Good question. I've also often though for those who want religion in government - do they want a theocracy? Also, which
Religion do they want in the government - Islam; Buddhism; Hinduism; Satanism; or, oh, yea Christianity? It's hard to have

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bringstheeagle Colorado
10/19/13 1:29 pm

real freedom of religion if one favored one is part of the government. I say separation is the only option that offers true freedom of religion - not religious tolerance but freedom. Unique argument; huh Matt?

bringstheeagle Colorado
10/19/13 1:32 pm

Oh, and in case anyone wonders I am a practicing Christian - Sunday and Wednesday service, I tithe, the whole deal and more I won't say. Nearly every time the church door opens I'm there. Still feel separation is fully best.

curly
10/19/13 1:44 pm

I don't want religion in govt either.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 2:17 pm

Same

kscott516 EB rules
10/19/13 1:26 pm

False. Only govt out of religion. The people working in govt should not be prevented from expressing their faith.

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Mattwall1
10/19/13 1:28 pm

No one is saying you can't be religious. Just dint use religion OR irreligion to govern