Show of HandsShow of Hands

MJSeals October 19th, 2013 4:10am

Inspired by Sunshine01. Is there a "war on Christmas?"

28 Liked

Comments: Add Comment

kairu Trust no one...simple
10/20/13 7:00 pm

Christmas to large corporations is a sales opportunity. It really saddens me.

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mikeey1962 on SOH where else
10/20/13 3:31 pm

Always has always will.. Try standing in a line day before thanksgiving just to get into Walmart..

DavesNotHere where am I
10/19/13 10:41 am

The war on Christmas started when someone decided to spend $200 on a pair of shoes for their kids. Don't blame it on someone who says happy holidays instead of merry Christmas.

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Mattwall1
10/19/13 11:28 am

Isn't that when Hanukkah also became about expensive gifts, at least in the us?

DavesNotHere where am I
10/19/13 12:03 pm

Hanukkah isn't even observed on a large scale in Israel. Not an important holiday in the Jewish calendar. It observed in the US because we didn't want to feel left out during Christmas time (at least as toys go). There's no war on Hanukkah.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 12:06 pm

I wasn't implying there was, I know it's only celebrated here because of the commercialize toon of Christmas. All I know is now I want gelt and latkes

Alph4omega
10/19/13 10:24 am

I'm am atheist and I love Christmas. Btw, it's one of the most pagan Christian holidays.
though I would say there is a war on religion, I can't wait to hear its death rattle

Posco BBQ Enthusiast
10/19/13 8:31 am

No there is not a war on Christmas. The media might say there is but I've never been seen it.

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commonman1 Peace
10/19/13 7:22 am

There is no Christmas programs. They're now called winter programs.

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Abolitionist Voice of the people
10/19/13 8:30 am

Maybe Jesus was offended his holiday has been turned into consumption & materialistic nonsense

commonman1 Peace
10/19/13 9:10 am

Or maybe political correctness killed it. You know the unisex movement.

kam9381
10/19/13 9:28 am

That's not a war on Christmas. It's the realization we're all not Christian.

commonman1 Peace
10/19/13 9:34 am

So take Christmas away from all.

kam9381
10/19/13 9:56 am

No one is taking Christmas away from you. Celebrating Christ's birth should not be dependent on having a school pageant. Christmas can be celebrated in a variety of ways that don't include forcing it on schools.

kam9381
10/19/13 9:57 am

Realistically celebrating Christmas should be going to church on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. Beyond that you're really moving away from what the definition of celebrating Christ's birth is anyhow.

commonman1 Peace
10/19/13 10:01 am

It's more than that. It's taking away Christmas trees, not being able to have a nativity sceen in a park, and in general killing the Christmas spirit.

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 4:00 pm

I live in Buffalo but everyone else in my family is from LI every long weekend I'm back down there

thewheel
10/19/13 6:36 am

Lol you are never going to remember it's OI not 01

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thewheel
10/19/13 6:57 am

Huh I guess so. Never thought of that before. There's a different reason behind it than that...

Mattwall1
10/19/13 6:58 am

Yeah I know, bad pun eel

thewheel
10/19/13 7:04 am

Now I'm never going to be able to read that without thinking oy.

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 8:20 am

Well I'm sorry it was around midnight (here) when I made this poll

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 10:00 am

Don't care I messed up or don't care it was midnight

thewheel
10/19/13 10:02 am

Don't care that you messed up... Sorry I'm in the middle of coaching a little girl figure skating and really distracted. I should have made it more clear. It's completely understandable.

thewheel
10/19/13 11:41 am

And I just realized that that comment could be taken a couple different ways. The mistake was understandable- not my strange wording.

thewheel
10/19/13 11:53 am

And that's confusing too. Sorry, I didn't mean it to offend you or hurt your feelings in any way, and if it did I am very sorry.

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 11:58 am

It's aright! I knew what you meant

thewheel
10/19/13 12:05 pm

Ok good. I just got so distracted because of my conversation w/ Matt below.

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 12:17 pm

Well... Wether or not you are back... Are you following SpeakerAFly? He holds a virtual congress you should join. If you come back

thewheel
10/19/13 12:25 pm

I don't know if I'm coming back fully... I need a week or so and then I'll decide. I'm just kind-of at a rough patch in life right now.

thewheel
10/19/13 12:51 pm

In short: way to many things. My little brother died two years ago a week from Monday and that is like a constant pain, my grandma has AFIB due to failed heart surgery, my classes are really hard and the drop-period has ended,

thewheel
10/19/13 12:51 pm

after a summer or telling school administration I technically should be a senior not a junior they have finally told me that I am a senior, but now I really don't want to be because I had barely even started looking for colleges because I was going

thewheel
10/19/13 12:52 pm

to be a junior, and my brother and parents won't even talk to each other. This has all been in the past two weeks. You know when you have those days where you are just going through the motions of life? It's been like that for almost a week.

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 12:56 pm

Oh. I am so sorry Sunshine. SOH could help get your mind off things.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 1:03 pm

Sunshine, I'm really sorry and I hope everything works out.

thewheel
10/19/13 1:04 pm

Yeah, but I feel like anything I say won't exactly be me at my best, and if I don't have anything good to say then I really shouldn't say anything at all. And it feels selfish to try to erase my own problems when others' are greater.

thewheel
10/19/13 1:11 pm

Sort of. I'm sixteen, my birthday is in March, and I never skipped a grade. I have always taken advanced classes, and this year I am taking all AP classes except two college ones. I tried to explain to the school admin. That I had no classes

thewheel
10/19/13 1:14 pm

To come back for next year, so I really can't be a junior because I don't have a developmental or social issue. They ignored me, so I just let it be. They came back last week and told me that I need to become a senior. So yep, I guess I did skip it.

thewheel
10/19/13 1:18 pm

It's just hard because I don't know where to go next year or what to major in. What are you guys doing?

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 1:22 pm

I'm working on college apps and school. Can't wait for College apps to be done

thewheel
10/19/13 1:24 pm

Yeah I know. It's so scary filling them out. Do you know what you want to major in yet?

Mattwall1
10/19/13 1:25 pm

Same, I'm considering applying to a few more schools, including northwestern and Wisconsin, both have great poly sci departments

thewheel
10/19/13 1:35 pm

I really wouldn't recommend WI, truthfully our schools are pretty bad. But if you want to, that's your choice.

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 1:38 pm

Ya Wisconsin is a pretty bad state. Jk

thewheel
10/19/13 1:40 pm

I have no idea what I want to major in, primarily because everything I enjoy doing isn't exactly going to provide a stable career. Economics or political science are both majors that you need at least a masters to use for anything.

thewheel
10/19/13 1:41 pm

No one from NY, especially Buffalo, could ever say a word to discourage WI lol

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 1:42 pm

At least I'm not a cheese head....

thewheel
10/19/13 1:47 pm

It's something called pride, but since you are a Jets fan it's not really your fault that you haven't herd of it...

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 1:48 pm

Discount double check. Jets have one of the most loyal fan bases

thewheel
10/19/13 1:51 pm

Yeah, sure, think what you want. You ever shoveled snow for your team when it was below 0? Because Packer fans do it before ever winter game. Just sayin

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 1:56 pm

I live in Buffalo so if I was a bills fan I would

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 2:03 pm

Sorry how are the packers doing this year? 16-0?

thewheel
10/19/13 2:10 pm

You were not supposed to ask that, but 3-2. May I remind you, though, that the Jets are 3-3 which is just as bad.

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 2:23 pm

But the jets are the jets. Packers were supposed to be great with Arron Rodgers

thewheel
10/19/13 2:27 pm

Aaron Rodgers is doing well- it's the defense that's the problem.

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 2:32 pm

Spoken like a true democrat

Mattwall1
10/19/13 2:34 pm

MJ: not entrust accurate. I'm a dem. I favor strong defense and realpolitik. Nice try though :)

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 2:36 pm

I'm just messing with sunshine. If I remember correctly she hates being called a democrat

thewheel
10/19/13 2:41 pm

:P If I'm a democrat you're a communist MJ.

thewheel
10/19/13 2:44 pm

Now what would that make Matt... A Libertarian perhaps?

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 2:44 pm

I ❤️ communism lets kill those McCarthyists

Mattwall1
10/19/13 2:46 pm

Well I guess it's a good thing I'm a democrat and you two are conservative republicans. Mj as a communist? Lol

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 2:50 pm

Could you imagine we we ended up at the same college...

Mattwall1
10/19/13 2:51 pm

Me and you? Me and sunshine? Or you an sunshine? Or all 3 of us?

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 3:24 pm

All three of us..we could have an SOH club

thewheel
10/19/13 3:48 pm

You never know... With God all things are possible (sorry Matt more religious stuff)

Mattwall1
10/19/13 3:54 pm

It's fine. I could teach you the glory that are lox and bagels, latkes, kinish etc. just avoid manischewitz wine

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 3:57 pm

Oy Vey!
Most of NYC is like Little Is Israel! I know my bagels!

Mattwall1
10/19/13 3:59 pm

I thought you were in buffalo.

thewheel
10/19/13 4:14 pm

Then you have to put up with lefse and lutefisk

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 4:16 pm

I live in Buffalo but everyone else in my family is from LI every long weekend I'm back down there

thewheel
10/19/13 4:22 pm

You guys need to experience small town life. More fun than you would think.

davidwhite1 Building it Bigger
10/19/13 6:34 am

That war has long since been lost.
When consumerism took over as the center of Christmas instead.... Oh I don't know Christ? It was lost.

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chickencookie It really is
10/19/13 6:30 am

Surprised they legally haven't changed the spelling to Krismus.

EarlyBird Portland
10/19/13 6:10 am

There is a war on saying "Merry Christmas!".

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shellybaxter1234 Peaceful Place
10/19/13 6:21 am

No there's not. Some people choose to say Happy Holidays instead, but I've never been chastised for saying Merry Christmas. Choice is not war

chickencookie It really is
10/19/13 6:28 am

Retailers in my town are specifically told not to to say Merry Christmas. FYI majority of population is Christian.

EarlyBird Portland
10/19/13 6:30 am

Shelly- I have been chastised for saying "Merry Christmas". And when buying Christmas cards, I've been told to buy PC Cards.

chickencookie It really is
10/19/13 6:32 am

When i say MC the cashiers just stare into space. They don't know what to do.

EarlyBird Portland
10/19/13 6:35 am

Chicken - exactly. They aren't sure what to do because they've been trained to stay away from it.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 6:52 am

While personally I let it slide from people I don't know p, because I know they mean well, I urge you to look at Bethany's comment below.

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
10/19/13 6:54 am

From Sunshine's link: “Yes, we are a predominantly Christian society, but we are also a society of many faiths and we want to respect that.”

The context of the quote is music. It also relates to retail greetings. Respecting differences is not war.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 6:56 am

And it never should be either. I suppose a 5-1 ratio is a bit extreme, but the IDEA behind it, that you can't exclusively sing one religion's songs at a public school assembly is a good one,

chickencookie It really is
10/19/13 6:56 am

Grandma I am not jewish but all of my jewish friends enjoy the season and like being told merry christmas even though they don't celebrate it.

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
10/19/13 6:57 am

Yes to what Matt said ... I am not Christian. I am polite if somebody wishes me a Merry Christmas, but I feel awkward. I was not raised to celebrate Christmas and have never celebrated Christmas.

chickencookie It really is
10/19/13 6:58 am

Don't they still that dreidel song? Why are nativities banned yet menorahs arent? Aren't both religious symbols?

Mattwall1
10/19/13 7:00 am

Chicken, we know its meant well, but it's very awkward, I can't speak for Alice, but I don't think either being up in a school is appropriate, not unless you somehow got a symbol for every religion at the school, and something for kids who's parents aren't religious.

chickencookie It really is
10/19/13 7:01 am

So why are menorahs allowed but not nativities?

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
10/19/13 7:03 am

Chickencookie, we cross posted there. LOL

Have your Jewish friends actually told you that they enjoy being wished Merry Christmas? I ask, because I am braver on this semi-anonymous app. In person, when somebody wishes me a Merry Christmas, I ...

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
10/19/13 7:04 am

... smile politely, but I feel very awkward about it. Not really offended, just strange like, "Why does she assume I celebrate Christmas?"

EarlyBird Portland
10/19/13 7:05 am

I'm atheist and still like hearing "Merry Christmas!". It's like when someone says they will pray for me, I'm not uncomfortable, in fact, quite the opposite. I find comfort in hearing it as I know they mean well.

thewheel
10/19/13 7:06 am

I'm just going to say... The lady who said that is insane...

Mattwall1
10/19/13 7:08 am

GA- I know the feeling.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 7:08 am

Which part is insane?

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
10/19/13 7:09 am

The lady who said WHAT is insane? The issue about school music? Or something else?

chickencookie It really is
10/19/13 7:12 am

Yes grandma they have. If someone says to me happy kwanza i don't give it a thought. I consider it a blessing.

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
10/19/13 7:16 am

Getting back to the question about dreidel songs and menorahs ...

A public school should not display a menorah. It would be unconstitutional. Retail is different. It comes down to what the business owner feels will bring in more shoppers. There ...

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
10/19/13 7:21 am

... are no laws about this and there shouldn't be.

Having said that ... There are easily 100 Christmas trees for every menorah at my local mall. Hardly a "war" ... or if there us, Christmas is easily "winning."

"That dreydl song" is, frankly, ...

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
10/19/13 7:26 am

... a childish ditty, musically on par with something like a Mother Goose rhyme. However, there IS some beautiful Chanukah music, real music. If a school choir mixes this into a program, for some balance, along with Christmas songs, that would be ok.

citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/19/13 8:24 am

ChickenCookie, find me an instance on public lands where the menora is allowed yet a nativity is not.

thewheel
10/19/13 9:57 am

The superintendent of our district (the person who said that). Her performance is now under review. Thanks to her administration by senior year is horrible. I would explain, but it's a really long story.

citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/19/13 9:59 am

Sunshine, I apologize, but I cannot find the post you are referencing. Who said what?

Mattwall1
10/19/13 10:00 am

Is she insane for saying that? Or insane in your view anyway?

thewheel
10/19/13 10:04 am

Cite- Alice's first comment on his chain
Matt- completely insane for other reasons, though this event didn't exactly help

Mattwall1
10/19/13 6:04 am

It's also called the "Christmas Controversy" it refers to the issue surrounding the celebration or acknowledgment of the Christmas holiday in government, media, advertising, and various secular environments. Personally I think there is no war in Christmas

jvc1133 61535
10/19/13 6:12 am

Me to

rons screw politicians
10/19/13 4:50 am

merry Holiday! Outlaw red and green in december, leave the fir tree alone,. bah Humbug!

cpaswr just say the letters
10/19/13 4:19 am

I'm creating a new holiday called Allahmas.

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Doopy Remedial Americanism
10/19/13 2:47 am

Not a very big one, but yeah.

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drcynic Pittsburgh, PA
10/19/13 1:20 am

Oh yeah, big time. That's why Christmas starts earlier each year and generates billions of dollars in revenue. Seems like a war to me.

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davidwhite1 Building it Bigger
10/19/13 6:42 am

That is kind of the point to me. Corporations and consumerism have become the focus of CHRISTmas.
So, to a traditional Christian the original intent of the Holliday has largely been lost.

tdaddy Kentucky
10/19/13 1:04 am

No way! There's not a war on Santa or the Tooth Fairy either.

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comppete Las Vegas
10/19/13 12:39 am

Yes, it is being waged by the liberal left.

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b4mytime Orange County, CA
10/19/13 3:56 am

Muahahaha, here we come to steal your wreaths and candy canes!!! We liberals have a war room where we discuss how to take out Santa without hurting the reindeer. Because as you know, we're hypocritical animal lovers who hate humans and goodness.

Userperson merry passover
10/19/13 5:10 am

How could us liberal killer racist communists Kenyans not?

rons screw politicians
10/19/13 5:44 am

So that's why liberals have a tinge of green skin.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 5:48 am

Well, vulcans are logical..... (Bad joke alert)

comppete Las Vegas
10/19/13 2:19 pm

I'm proud of you guys, for not getting upset at my comment. I just wanted to see what the response would be. This is the kind of response one should have, when a slanted comment is aimed at a specific group. Enough with the hate. We can learn.

JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/19/13 12:34 am

I'm a bit concerned the number of yes votes are that high...

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Mattwall1
10/19/13 5:56 am

You're not alone.

FemmeAdamWest in the Tardis library
10/19/13 9:19 am

Anything to get people all uppity.

cyanospool The Deep North
10/19/13 12:16 am

Like environmentalists threatening people who harvest their own Christmas trees?

Unbelievable what constitutes as a war in our society. How about you take all your "Happy Holidays" war stories over to the Congo and share them with the locals.

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CzarCastic
10/18/13 11:25 pm

Are we all keeping Christ in Christmas or are we worrying about offending people?

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b4mytime Orange County, CA
10/19/13 3:57 am

I'm pretty sure we're keeping Christ in Christmas. No one has ever wished me a Merry Mas.

citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/18/13 11:05 pm

There's not a war on Christmas, but Christmas has made war on everything else.

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alval California
10/18/13 11:04 pm

Christmas in August is not good...just saying.

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DeusOrbus Stay Positive
10/18/13 11:03 pm

I use my anti-christ-mass sniper to et rid of those damn elves every year so yeah there's a war and I'm waging it!

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zman117 Ohio
10/18/13 10:43 pm

Christmas is not over a period of multiple days. There are in fact holidays that are a period of time but you apparently don't like to celebrate those. When you really think about it, saying merry Christmas in mid December doesn't make sense.

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sdbrev210 The Pursuit of Happiness
10/18/13 11:21 pm

May I suggest, the secret of Christmas is not the things you do at Christmas time, but the Christmas things you do all year through.

MrMilkdud
10/19/13 4:36 am

But Christmas isn't just celebrated for one day.
Christmas includes the four weeks before Christmas Day, called Advent,
and continues through the 12 days after Christmas Day to the Epiphany.
It's appropriate to say Merry Christmas that whole time.

Userperson merry passover
10/19/13 5:12 am

I don't observe Christmas, so it must be in a superposition of dates.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 5:37 am

Milkdud is right about the dates, although I don't think there is a war on Christians, or any other holiday for that matter.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/18/13 10:37 pm

What, because people say "happy holidays" or something? That's silly. I'm the Christmas enforcer in my home (hubby could take it or leave it; I get the shakes without a tree) and I say "happy holidays." It's not because I'm anti-Christmas. I'm like

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bethanyq Ess Eff
10/18/13 10:38 pm

the OPPOSITE of anti-Christmas. I just recognize that not everyone adores the holiday as much as I do. I very weirdly and randomly for hit on one December by an Orthodox Jew who wished me a Happy Hannukah even though I'd already told him (bc he asked

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/18/13 10:39 pm

that I wasn't Jewish. I knew he meant well, but it was a little weird. And suddenly, right in that moment, I kind of understood what it's like for people who don't celebrate Christmas to be wished a Merry Christmas. So now I say "happy holidays."

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/18/13 10:40 pm

got* hit on not "for hit on." Geez autocorrect.

PartyJustin R.O.C.K. in the R.O.C.
10/18/13 10:53 pm

Thank you. I wish more people could be that perceptive.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 5:40 am

Bethany i applaud you for understanding. I'll say merry Christmas to those that want me to, but I get the feeling you're presenting. If its someone who doesn't know me I just let it slide. But it can feel awkward when someone who knows I'm not Christian wishes me a merry Christmas. I know they mean well, but it's still awkward.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 5:40 am

Kudos Bethany kudos

zman117 Ohio
10/18/13 10:30 pm

No. Last year stores had Christmas sales on thanksgiving day. Christmas can't even wait for Black Friday now! There is a war on thanksgiving!

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MisterE Conservistan
10/19/13 7:12 am

Commercialization of Christmas could be considered a grievance to many Christians.

Happy Hong Kong
10/18/13 10:28 pm

Don't we normally get past Thanksgiving before this question gets asked?

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beanD California
10/19/13 12:04 am

Proof that there is no war!

KudosToYou California
10/18/13 10:13 pm

Happy Holidays everyone!

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RJ1969 SoCal
10/18/13 10:11 pm

I would like to see something on this issue that is quantifiable. I'm guessing this has more to do with personal perception than an actual empirical assessment.

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PartyJustin R.O.C.K. in the R.O.C.
10/18/13 10:27 pm

If you go on empirical evidence, the Christmas season gets longer every year, with decorations going up and sales starting earlier and earlier. If there's an actual war on Christmas, I don't think Christmas is losing.

citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/18/13 11:07 pm

No, this isn't a matter of opinion. There's no war on Christmas. There are a bunch of Christians with persecution complexes, though, that don't like being told that their illegal an inappropriate privilege has been revoked.

MisterE Conservistan
10/19/13 7:10 am

That has more to do with the commercialization and secularization of Christmas, which some people consider to be a component of the war on Christmas. Cite, taking away inappropriate privileges is still taking away privileges which is causation to...

MisterE Conservistan
10/19/13 7:10 am

classify it as a culture war.

citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/19/13 8:21 am

The spin put on the War on Christmas is usually that of a persecuted minority. Most proponents of this idea do not almost that Christian (or usually any other) privilege even exists.

MisterE Conservistan
10/19/13 11:13 am

It's sounds like you are arguing that the war on Christmas is a good thing, not that it doesn't actually exist.
Here is my definition of "War on Christmas": A movement to reduce the privileges of Christians.

citethesource Socialist and Atheist
10/19/13 11:42 am

FNC is the major pusher of the War on Christmas. Watch their coverage. Tell me when they acknowledge privilege.

MisterE Conservistan
10/18/13 10:07 pm

It's too early on the calendar to be having this discussion.

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beanD California
10/18/13 10:07 pm

You mean like a secularization? If so, then yes, I suppose, but no more so than secularization of anything else.

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bethanyq Ess Eff
10/18/13 10:49 pm

What's funny is that the Christians co-opted Christmas from the pagans in the first place (not that I blame them; it's a lovely holiday and I'm quite pleased they made it mainstream!)

thewheel
10/19/13 5:59 am

Just saying- my school district sucks.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/19/13 10:09 am

I understand where the school board is coming from. No one complains because no one wants to be the one who complains about kids singing - I mean come on. But if you have never been in the situation of being in a room surrounded by people singing

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/19/13 10:10 am

openly religious songs - from a religion you don't belong to - it may be difficult to understand the vague but potent sense of awkward discomfort. It's this disconnect of feeling the positivity and closeness but almost like having this big flashing

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/19/13 10:11 am

sign at the same time screaming "YOU'RE NOT LIKE US" and it can be deeply depressing. You can't complain, because no one did anything "wrong" & you don't object to people having their religion, but that palpable sense of difference is deeply painful.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/19/13 10:13 am

Someone thoughtful at the school board recognized this and tried to strike a balance so that the Christians could get to enjoy their holiday music at the school performance without making non-Christians feel uncomfortable. The response saddens me.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/19/13 10:13 am

It signals a lack of an ability or willingness to exercise some empathy and think about it from someone else's perspective. It's not an attack on Christians. It's a recognition that a public school is not a Christian school.

Mattwall1
10/18/13 10:00 pm

Second that

MJSeals J.D.
10/19/13 8:23 am

Thank you!

Mattwall1
10/18/13 9:50 pm

MJ mind if I share this? I don't think there is but it's a good question nonetheless

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TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
10/18/13 9:40 pm

Yes - it's part of the war on Christians.

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RJ1969 SoCal
10/18/13 9:44 pm

Can you elaborate?

2katz I live in Nebraska
10/18/13 9:49 pm

I agree, tl, but I'm just not interested in what will likely turn out to be another Christian-baiting episode. Go for it if you're in the mood, youre more patient than I am.

RJ1969 SoCal
10/18/13 9:50 pm

That's probably true katz. I can see why there isn't much discussion on this topic here.

DailyAtheist Religious polls
10/18/13 10:33 pm

War on Christians! More like people realizing that not everyone is a Christian in this country and they are trying to respect people's beliefs.

thewheel
10/19/13 6:03 am

Just going to put this link out there one more time- I don't know what you would call it, but it's at least bad discrimation. All from my horrible school district ( I always knew it sucked)

elbrutus23 Chicago, IL
10/19/13 9:42 am

And your rights as a Christian have been taken away in what way exactly?

thewheel
10/19/13 9:59 am

The 5-1 ratio. A 1-1 would be fine, but 5-1 is discriminatory against those of faith.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/19/13 10:16 am

I have a different take on it - see my comments above. I think it is about keeping it festive but not making non-Christians feel like they accidentally snuck into church.

kc17 Minnesota
10/18/13 9:32 pm

What does a "War on Christmas" constitute of?

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RJ1969 SoCal
10/18/13 9:28 pm

About 1/4 said yes, but no comments. I'd really like to hear what they think constitutes a "war on Christmas".

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tdaddy Kentucky
10/19/13 1:10 am

Burning effigies of Santa? Chipmunks roasting on an open flyer?

Octopus
10/18/13 9:18 pm

Ha, that's funny.

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Wert A picture of my junk
10/18/13 9:18 pm

No. Though, I'd hardly call it Chistmas, anymore. I prefer to call it Retail Season.

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DenisC NYC Rome Miami Beach
10/18/13 9:18 pm

No, and they better not even try to ruin that as well...

Wert A picture of my junk
10/18/13 9:18 pm

As well as what?

DunkinFrunk Austin area, Texas
10/18/13 9:19 pm

Who is this "they" you speak of?

DunkinFrunk Austin area, Texas
10/18/13 9:14 pm

No. What's not to like about Christmas?

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Mattwall1
10/18/13 9:15 pm

Hey I go to the movies, it's pretty fun,

CorblaKhan Team Skynet
10/18/13 10:04 pm

The music that starts IMMEDIATELY after Halloween has ended? That's my big holiday pet-peeve.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/18/13 10:36 pm

Hush, Scrooge! Christmas music is magical! MAGICAL.

CorblaKhan Team Skynet
10/18/13 10:40 pm

I live at the corner of Bah ct. and Humbug ave.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/18/13 10:56 pm

Oh! I think I'll add your corner to the caroling map ;-)

Mattwall1
10/18/13 9:19 pm

And there isn't a war on any holiday at that time of year either.

Userperson merry passover
10/19/13 5:17 am

No war on international phone case day? Nobody has celebrated it for years

Mattwall1
10/19/13 5:45 am

So people are trying to even out things? I could say there is a war in Hanukkah because there are more Christmas sings. I'm sorry, but if the fact people aren't exclusively singing Christians songs in a PUBLIC school constitutes a war on Christmas, then I don't think the issue ultimately lies on us non Christians, or us who respect the rights of other religions.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 5:47 am

Sing Christmas songs. They're actually great music, but if it's a public school, and the student population isn't just Christian, singing only Christmas songs can easily be offensive. I think the 5-1 ratio is odd, but is it the fact they aren't allowing only Christmas sings or the ratio itself you're objecting to?

thewheel
10/19/13 6:06 am

My problem is the Wausau West Masters Singers (who are about the most amazing singers) sing songs from a really long time ago to provide a full musical education. From some of the time periods they sing from the only appropriate music is Christian

thewheel
10/19/13 6:09 am

Because of the amount to raunchiness and the vulgar talk in other music from that time. They sing in 10+ languages throughout the year, and many spiritual songs are sung in a different language. Mr. Buch is a man of faith, but

Mattwall1
10/19/13 6:09 am

Could they bring in other singers or do something to even it out? Do these singers make it aware it's from a historical and not religious context? (Although silent night in a medieval town would've been anything but)

thewheel
10/19/13 6:11 am

He chooses music purely from an educational standpoint. The students who try out for Master Singers know perfectly well that they will sing religious music, and no one is forcing them to try out. The community as a whole (including

thewheel
10/19/13 6:14 am

The vast majority of atheists was outraged, In ten hours of asking people to sing petitions against this only thirteen people said no to me.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 6:14 am

Is this an assembly they're singing at in a public school?

Mattwall1
10/19/13 6:15 am

If so, I can understand some requirement, although 5-1 is odd. Maybe 1-1

thewheel
10/19/13 6:16 am

And about evening out the amount of singers, West has six choirs. Freshman, Ladies, Men, Sophomore, Concert Coral, and the most exclusive one- Master Singers. The rest of the choirs were going to just go with the flow, but Masters isn't.

thewheel
10/19/13 6:18 am

They do sing some for assembly (but I don't actually go to West) but it goes way beyond that. They sing all over the community. I would also be fine with a 1-1 ratio.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 6:22 am

On school grounds I think we can both agree 1-1 Christian to non Christian (probably a mix of other holidays and just general seasonal music) off campus like at nursing homes, I HOPE if they're audience isn't exclusively Christian they throw in some other stuff, but I think a requirement especially 5-1 is a stretch. But a war on Christmas? That's also a stretch.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 6:23 am

I agree the school administrators were stupid in wanting a 5-1 ratio, but I don't think that constitutes anything close to a war on Christmas.

thewheel
10/19/13 6:40 am

When out in the public they do sing non-religious songs. It would be really bad if they didn't. I just think it's instituting a discrimination AGAINST those of faith with a 1-5. Our community is known to have about 90% religious people,

Mattwall1
10/19/13 6:42 am

As I said 5-1 is a stretch. Are all these 90% Christian?

thewheel
10/19/13 6:42 am

So I completely understand that it would be really hard to be part of that 10%, but the problem is they act like 75% of the community isn't religious.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 6:44 am

As stupid as the school was, I don't think this constitutes a war on Christmas.

thewheel
10/19/13 6:48 am

No. We have a large Jewish population, a large Mormon (say what you want I don't consider them Christians), and a small amount of Buddhists.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 6:49 am

Ok. Still a reach by the school, but a war on Christmas?

thewheel
10/19/13 6:49 am

And at Christmas programs those religions are all honored.

thewheel
10/19/13 6:56 am

Look, this may be special to my community, but people PROTEST outside our church (not many people, but still) on Christmas Day. If that isn't a war against Christmas then what is?

Mattwall1
10/19/13 6:58 am

First of all, let me say those protesting the holiday shouldn't be. Is anyone coming into your home, saying "if you worship Christmas, you'll go to jail." Or "be killed" or just coming in and killing, raping or brutalizing Christians? Are there any anti Christian pogroms? No.

thewheel
10/19/13 7:01 am

And, because my dad is a pastor we have had people come to our house around Christmas just trying to harass us. It's horrible.

thewheel
10/19/13 7:03 am

You need a day in my shoes. It would change your opinion a lot...

Mattwall1
10/19/13 7:04 am

Again, those people are wrong and shouldn't harass you. But are any if the things I mentioned happening to Christians thought the country? No. And I hope there never is against ANY group. But a sing ratio (even if odd and a bit too far) doesn't constitute a war. I am deeply sorry anyone wants to harass you. I think those people are stupid and wrong.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 7:07 am

I think you need a day in mine. I'm from a ethnic-religous minority, and one that's always been one, and one that's ACTUALLY been persecuted for the past 2 plus millennia. while I had family leave Britain and Germany as middle class merchants I also had family escalating the tsars. Believe me, what those who are harassing your family or your parish I are doing is incredibly wrong, it doesn't constitute a war on Christmas,

thewheel
10/19/13 10:21 am

Well, anyway, I pray for you. One day when you do come to faith just know that some random girl in WI prayed for it to happen.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 10:25 am

I know you mean well with your statement

thewheel
10/19/13 11:10 am

Here, I going to go ahead and tell you why I can't stand it when people don't believe. I never talk about this, but it's not entirely true that I have two little brothers. I had three, but two years ago my brother who was in eighth grade passed away

thewheel
10/19/13 11:12 am

Maybe a week before he had told me he didn't believe. I don't know if he had it in his heart. I just don't want any other family to have to go through that. So please just try going to church. I know it's a lot to ask, but try.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 11:13 am

Sunshine: I'm incredibly sorry. I jus meant I know you mean well when you say you'll pray for me, but at least to me given my religious background it comes across as an awkwardness that's incredibly difficult to describe like when people

Mattwall1
10/19/13 11:14 am

Who know me wish me a merry Christmas. I lave no issue with them and I know they mean it well from the bottom of their heart. It's just an extreme and incredibly difficult to describe form of awkwardness.

Mattwall1
10/19/13 11:16 am

Sunshine I've gone to inter religious groups. I've never believed in Christianity, even after being explained several tented from many denominations.

thewheel
10/19/13 11:22 am

Sorry if it sounded like I was forcing my opinion on you, but it's just something that is so close to my heart, you know?

thewheel
10/19/13 11:24 am

And the past two songs that played on my iPod are Bad Day and How to Save a Life. It's a cruel world :(

moonlightshadow love in the moonlight
10/18/13 9:13 pm

No at least I hope not Idk what the child inside me will do if there was lol

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Kris Humidity Central
10/18/13 9:12 pm

No, but there is a war on Christmas decorations being up before and during Halloween and Thanksgiving times :P

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RJ1969 SoCal
10/18/13 9:13 pm

True