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XposeBarak Out There
10/17/13 2:35 pm

Nothing is "free" ....to bad the people that think its free dont understand they are paying with indebted freedom :/

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
10/17/13 12:09 pm

This conversation makes me sick to my stomach. Just Jack the taxes up and up and up and up until this is a socialist nightmare. You Marxist pricks will never learn.

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trepidhickory Ayy Lmao
10/17/13 12:35 pm

No one said to jack up taxes and I am certainly not a marxist

by making assumptions and generalizations you really hurt your chances of anyone siding with you

Komm No. I am your father
10/17/13 11:45 am

How can you have a right to something that can only be provided by others? And those others must devote some serious effort to attain the knowledge and skill required and purchase very expensive machines to use. No such thing as a free lunch.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
10/17/13 10:52 am

1. It's NEVER free, SOMEONE pays for it
2. It's NOT NOT NOT a "right".

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glashberg Wave when you flyover
10/17/13 9:43 am

Affordable healthcare should be, though. Accessible to all.

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MrMilkdud
10/17/13 9:37 am

No. You can't assume as a right that which someone else must provide. To do so is, in effect, to require someone else to give you their hard work and experience for free.
Doctors and healthcare workers are not your slaves.

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MrMilkdud
10/17/13 9:39 am

I can't say food is a natural right if someone has to grow or harvest food for me.
I can't say a home is a natural right because someone has to build a home and someone has to produce the materials.
Education isn't a natural right....

MrMilkdud
10/17/13 9:40 am

...because someone has to teach me and provide the learning materials.

Rights are only those things which exist naturally, in your natural state.

trepidhickory Ayy Lmao
10/17/13 10:45 am

Its not like the doctors aren't getting paid, just like with education the teachers still get paid

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
10/17/13 10:53 am

But trepid are they paid FAIRLY. That's the point.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
10/17/13 10:53 am

Eminent domain is theft, even though you "get paid." You can't throw money at someone and tell them "see? Get over it."

MrMilkdud
10/17/13 10:54 am

It doesn't matter if they're paid or not. Even slaves get food and shelter.

MrMilkdud
10/17/13 10:56 am

What do you do for a living, trepid?

MrMilkdud
10/17/13 10:57 am

You can't consign someone to work for you, or take over their business and set their policies and prices without their consent, and still call them a free person.

trepidhickory Ayy Lmao
10/17/13 11:22 am

Right now I work in data analysis at a company that is a government contracter but I don't see what that has to do with anything Milkdud

and I never said government should take over a business I think that the government should provide free OPTIONAL health insurance that covers basic needs

MrMilkdud
10/17/13 11:27 am

No. Your question was whether healthcare should be a "right." Don't change your premise in midstream.

MrMilkdud
10/17/13 11:29 am

If the government decided that the service your company provides is a "right" for all Americans, and as such they fixed your prices and told you it was illegal to turn away customers due to inability to pay, how fast would you go out of business?

trepidhickory Ayy Lmao
10/17/13 11:30 am

And I think it is a right, and people can deny to have that right but it should be available

a free basic optional insurance plan fulfills that right, whether people want it is up to them

trepidhickory Ayy Lmao
10/17/13 11:30 am

they do the same thing with schools but private schools are doing just fine

MrMilkdud
10/17/13 11:33 am

Right. But public schools aren't doing just fine. They cost 10x's as much money per student as private schools, and their results are shameful.
We have the best healthcare system in the world. Why would you do to it what govt did to education?

MrMilkdud
10/17/13 11:35 am

And all of that is beside the point of your question. You don't have a right to something someone else must provide to you- school, medicine, food- it doesn't matter. If it isn't naturally yours, you don't have a right to take it from someone else.

MrMilkdud
10/17/13 11:38 am

Just because you want something doesn't give you a right to take it.

You WANT free healthcare, but you don't have a RIGHT to force a doctor to take care of you.

MrMilkdud
10/17/13 11:39 am

You're avoiding the primary issue.

MrMilkdud
10/17/13 11:40 am

And I don't care what the world health organization says. They're a political schill for the UN.

trepidhickory Ayy Lmao
10/17/13 11:42 am

We have a right to live and part of living is having basic healthcare in my opinion, you feel differently and I respect that my views arent accelted by everyone I know that

one thing I don't respect is denying evidence from a trustworthy source

MrMilkdud
10/17/13 11:43 am

You've avoided everything else I've said and latched onto one thing.
Answer my question about your company.

Does everyone have a right to what your company produces?

MrMilkdud
10/17/13 11:44 am

You have a right to live.
And a responsibility to take care of your life and preserve it.
You don't have a right to force someone else to protect you or provide that which is necessary for you to live.

Komm No. I am your father
10/17/13 11:47 am

You can grow your own food. You can make your own weapons for defense. You can build your own home. To a small extent you can mind your own health. But if you want better than what you are capable of doing yourself, you have to pay another to do it.

trepidhickory Ayy Lmao
10/17/13 11:48 am

No one has a right to force someone to provide a product

look I already admitted our views differ and I respect your opinion

I told you how I think free healthcare can be available without forcing people to do anything and you disregarded it as off topic

trepidhickory Ayy Lmao
10/17/13 11:53 am

I'm not saying provide all healthcare as a ftee service

I think that there should be an option to have free BASIC health insurance....as in doctors still get paid what they usually charge but the poor can actually receive that care

MrMilkdud
10/17/13 11:54 am

Because it isn't free. There is no such thing as free. Someone has to pay the healthcare workers. Someone has to provide the medical equipment, facilities, and other sundries.
It isn't free.

trepidhickory Ayy Lmao
10/17/13 12:35 pm

I do rebel and everyone else that pays taxes

cathyro Long Beach,Ca
10/17/13 9:31 am

Affordable healthcare should be a right!

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Happy Hong Kong
10/17/13 9:14 am

Even in a single payer system it isn't free. It's "free* at the point of use".

*Some co-pays and restrictions may apply.

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akgoat UniversityofAlaska
10/17/13 9:13 am

I absolutely believe its a basic human right.

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MrMilkdud
10/17/13 9:49 am

So you believe doctors and healthcare workers are your slaves?

akgoat UniversityofAlaska
10/17/13 9:51 am

So you believe it's ok to make asinine assumptions from one statement?

MJSeals Esq.
10/17/13 9:52 am

Ak you still have not cited why it is a human RIGHT

MrMilkdud
10/17/13 9:54 am

I made a logical deduction.
If the govt says you have a right to a product or service, then someone has to provide that service to you.
If no one wants to provide you that service, the government has to make someone do it against their will.
A slave

MrMilkdud
10/17/13 9:55 am

You cannot claim as a right that which someone else must provide to you. Goods and services cannot, by definition, be "rights."
Healthcare is a service, provided by the labor and experience of professionals.
Therefore it cannot be a right.

MrMilkdud
10/17/13 9:56 am

What do you do for a living, akgoat?

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
10/17/13 10:54 am

Is WIC a "living"?

Kris Humidity Central
10/17/13 9:11 am

No one is turned away from hospitals, but if they don't have healthcare they do have a hefty bill to foot.

Lesson is, hospitals and the like are businesses you get services from, and you have to pay either way. So invest in decent healthcare.

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Mattwall1
10/17/13 9:12 am

Actually some are exempted from that requirement. Shriner hospitals for example can legally turn you away if you aren't insured. Good luck at boot camp and anchors aweigh my friend!

Kris Humidity Central
10/17/13 9:12 am

I know that sucks when someone gets a illness that pretty much requires medical attention, but it is what is.

They provide a service. Just like how food is necessary, we do have to pay farmers, and the better businesses make more.

akgoat UniversityofAlaska
10/17/13 9:12 am

People can and are turned away from hospitals.

Kris Humidity Central
10/17/13 9:15 am

Isn't there always a hospital they can go to though, it's not every hospital.
And a emergency responder wouldn't bring someone who requires immediate life saving medical attention to one that can turn away.

Mattwall1
10/17/13 9:17 am

In theory there may be another hospital. In practice going to another hospital can cause more problems from a health point of view

Mattwall1
10/17/13 9:18 am

Sometimes it might be the only hospital in the area with certain equipment needed so they might have to bring them to a certain hospital even if it's one they can be denied at. If I recall Indian tribe hospitals can also legally reject you

MJSeals Esq.
10/17/13 9:05 am

There is a reason we don't have a right to property, it is a privilege

trepidhickory Ayy Lmao
10/17/13 9:06 am

Our founding fathers believed we had the right to LIFE, liberty, and thr pursuit of happiness

Healthcare is a necessity not a privilege

MJSeals Esq.
10/17/13 9:08 am

Life is different then healthcare. No one will be turned away from a hospital

Mattwall1
10/17/13 9:11 am

Actually that's not entirely accurate. Some hospitals are exempted from that requirement such as Shriner hospitals. They don't have to let you into the er

akgoat UniversityofAlaska
10/17/13 9:12 am

Yes people can and are turned away from hospitals.