Show of HandsShow of Hands

Mattwall1 October 15th, 2013 10:13pm

Does America need health care reform and if so what do you think is the ultimate answer?

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ThePhlegm The Lone Star State
10/16/13 11:20 am

Make all medical providers not be able to charge the average of their 5 lowest contracts. I'm tired of us subsidizing the entire worlds medical care by paying exorbitant prices here then they charge other countries 10 times lower.

ThePhlegm The Lone Star State
10/16/13 11:29 am

Actually make them only charge the average....

jrrob CT
10/16/13 7:13 am

Get the government out of it, get frivolous law suits under control, and let the free market work.

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Ernest Make it so
10/16/13 4:43 am

Abolish health 'insurance,' abolish employer provided healthcare, get back to consumer responsibility. Do away with the pharmaceuticals price gouging 400%+ through the free market and some regulations.

Did I mention no more health insurance!!?

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Mattwall1
10/16/13 6:16 am

So what we had in the days of Carnegie and Vanderbilt? How is that helping anyone but the rich get health care at that point?

Ernest Make it so
10/16/13 12:19 pm

A lot different. I have posted on this topic several times, and don't mind doing so again. I just want to warn you that it's about 15 replies. If you don't mind, I can do that when I get home from work.

Mattwall1
10/16/13 12:23 pm

Ok I'm about to go to a class but sure

Ernest Make it so
10/17/13 8:08 pm

OK, (sorry for being late, and sorry for the next 15ish posts lol. All my goal here is to present my case, you can take from it whatever you want and with a grain of salt).

Ernest Make it so
10/17/13 8:15 pm

First, lets go back in time to examine the history of our healthcare: Lets start at 1900: cost - 5$ a year, less than roughly 100$ in today's standards. Very basic, rudimentary services.

Ernest Make it so
10/17/13 8:17 pm

1909: first drug to cure an illness - Salvarsan (cures syphilis). This was basically a change in expectations from doctors. Public starts to expect to be cured by doctors. This was the basic start for the evolution of hospitals from poor houses.

Ernest Make it so
10/17/13 8:20 pm

With all this happening in the 1910's and 1920's. Costs go up, in fact, the costs were so great that people began to avoid going unless it was life or death/urgent. With Hospitals transformed something new happened happened. The Great Depression:

Ernest Make it so
10/17/13 8:23 pm

This takes us to Baylor University in Dallas Texas. An official at the hospital there observed that the beds were going empty each night due to the costs. What were Americans spending money on? Cosmetics.

Ernest Make it so
10/17/13 8:26 pm

"We spend a dollar or so at a time for cosmetics and do not notice the high costs, the ribbon-counter clerk can pay 50 cent, then 75 cents or $1 dollar a month, yet it would take about 20 years to set aside (money for) a large hospital bill."

Ernest Make it so
10/17/13 8:27 pm

What does this mean? This official at Baylor who made this statement wanted to get everyone in his hospital beds. So he offered a deal to a group of public school teachers in Dallas 50 cents each month for a hospital visit.

Ernest Make it so
10/17/13 8:28 pm

Baylor university would pick up the tabs on those visits. This all happened just before The Great Depression, but as soon as it hit, hospitals around the USA became empty, and this Baylor idea became very popular during the depression.

Ernest Make it so
10/17/13 8:29 pm

This idea is now known as "Blue Cross," and is the grandfather of the employer-based system. Basically, the idea grew out of the Baylor model. Selling insurance to people who didn't need it who had money, mainly corporations.

Ernest Make it so
10/17/13 8:32 pm

People started using and paying for hospital/health care on a regular basis. Going to war in WWII again changed the landscape. The costs, labor demands, and all around inability to raise wages led to fringe benefits (health care/pensions).

Ernest Make it so
10/17/13 8:33 pm

The IRS in 1943 made a routine ruling coupled with the rise of fringe benefits were: First, employers based health care doesn't pay taxes on premiums (tax breaks for offering health care), this became officially part of the IRS code in 1953.

Ernest Make it so
10/17/13 8:34 pm

In 1940, that's about 9% of people on health insurance premiums, 1953, is roughly 63% of the population, and by the 60's it's up to 70% if people on "voluntary health insurance" plans. This is how our current system (horrifying I might add) happened.

Ernest Make it so
10/17/13 8:36 pm

I'll make a comparison now that that's out of the way. That's like having your employer buying your groceries. You go in, pay the co-pay (like 20 dollars), and take what you want. Not skipping on anything, including the luxuries.

Ernest Make it so
10/17/13 8:37 pm

Why get chicken, when you can have steak, lobster, and caviar? From the grocers point of view, why keep prices down? After all, your plan is paying the bill. Eventually prices would get so high that anyone not on an employer plan wouldn't eat.

Ernest Make it so
10/17/13 8:38 pm

Eventually people would be fed up and call congress and demand universal food coverage. This is what we have today. No consumer responsibility, and with the ACA, we're going to see the system slammed, costs skyrocket, not to mention long lines.

Ernest Make it so
10/17/13 8:42 pm

I also forgot to mention Nixon. It's really scary as he is talking about offering less healthcare for more $$. This is also why I don't trust Obama or the government on this issue.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qpLVTbVHnU

Ernest Make it so
10/17/13 8:43 pm

In 2006, Massachusetts passed health care reform that implemented a number of policies that are mirrored by the ACA. The average wait to see a doctor was 50 days at $600+ per month. On comparison with other states like Georgia, 11 days at $200.

Ernest Make it so
10/17/13 8:47 pm

All this tells me that we are headed into a storm of dangerous magnitudes. Sorry for all the comments, but there is a lot of ground to fully cover when discussing the ACA and health insurance/healthcare... We're all in trouble if you ask me.

SFLiberal
10/15/13 11:13 pm

Single payer system.

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Torfin Never Behind
10/15/13 11:08 pm

Or rather it WAS fine before Obamacare insanity

peacefullife Land of Moss
10/15/13 10:11 pm

Nationally funded: limited accident/emergency, pregnancy (midwife based, OBs for truly high risk), kids, preventative and 1-3 primary care visits annually.
Modify existing insurance for: long-term care, non-emergency billing, chronic care, etc.

peacefullife Land of Moss
10/15/13 10:13 pm

If we can manage to cover the basics for everyone, in theory, we could PREVENT a lot of the issues that are seen in the currently uninsured (who have the $$$$$ of unpaid medical bills...)

At least that's where my thoughts come from...

Zod Above Pugetropolis
10/15/13 9:40 pm

Government run single payer Medicare for all type of system.

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ThePhlegm The Lone Star State
10/16/13 11:22 am

Medicare is already killing us financially. And the acknowledged fraud is crazy high...

shellybaxter1234 Peaceful Place
10/15/13 9:01 pm

Yes - and the ultimate answer is single payer

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FIAT2LUX On Planet Earth
10/15/13 6:45 pm

It needs reform, but I have no solutions.

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Skarface Banned
10/15/13 3:51 pm

Single payer.

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Cole12 ...
10/15/13 3:58 pm

Wait, I thought you were an an-com?

Skarface Banned
10/15/13 4:00 pm

Nope, I'm in favor of a mixed economy.

Cole12 ...
10/15/13 4:01 pm

Fair enough. Must be thinking of someone else...

Skarface Banned
10/15/13 4:02 pm

I considered myself to be an Anarchosocialist for a while, but that isn't entirely accurate. I consider myself a capitalist first.

Skarface Banned
10/15/13 4:06 pm

My opinions didn't really change. I think that capitalism is the best system, and I always have, but I just think that a fair amount of regulation is needed to ensure maximum equality of opportunity and a higher average standard io living.

rolltribe Ohio
10/15/13 3:29 pm

Absolutely, and single payer.

It's that simple

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Mattwall1
10/15/13 3:31 pm

European style? Canadian style? Or what?

rolltribe Ohio
10/15/13 3:41 pm

Either one honestly, their both so much better than ours it's hard to choose

kscott516 Revelation 5 6
10/15/13 4:39 pm

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edrewiii
10/15/13 3:26 pm

First get government out of running it. Tort reform, competition across state lines, etc... It will soon be bankrupt once the government fully takes over.

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Cole12 ...
10/15/13 3:59 pm

k: Exactly. If it's not working in countries 1/10 the size of ours, it would be nothing short of a complete disaster here.

Cole12 ...
10/15/13 3:25 pm

Deregulate the industry and allow the free market to work its magic - costs will fall tremendously. Encourage private charities to help the truly needy.

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rolltribe Ohio
10/15/13 3:28 pm

That's worked well for us in the past. Not.

If it's best to let the free market do it's thing than why do the countries with single payer systems beat us in every measurable category

Cole12 ...
10/15/13 3:39 pm

Single payer is theft, plain and simple. If it's so great, move to Scandinavia - because if I have any say we won't be implementing such a large scale redistribution of wealth any time soon. Farväl!

kscott516 Revelation 5 6
10/15/13 3:56 pm

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kscott516 Revelation 5 6
10/15/13 3:58 pm

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Skarface Banned
10/15/13 3:59 pm

Cole, why should anyone that wants a more efficient healthcare system move to Scandinavia? If you want a limited government, why don't you go to Somalia? وداع!

Cole12 ...
10/15/13 3:59 pm

k: Exactly. If it's not working in countries 1/10 the size of ours, it would be nothing short of a complete disaster here.

Cole12 ...
10/15/13 4:02 pm

Skarface: I suggest you do some research on that country - it's not a libertarian paradise. Big myth.

rolltribe Ohio
10/15/13 4:05 pm

The assertion among republicans that universal healthcare is failing is a myth. One of the biggest lies that the republicans in Washington have repeated over and over again and now their naïve, gullible followers believe it

kscott516 Revelation 5 6
10/15/13 4:13 pm

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rolltribe Ohio
10/15/13 4:16 pm

Look at the countries that do have it. That's obviously what I was referring to. All of the countries that are ranked ahead of us (in price, quality, efficiency, and % of people insured) have universal healthcare

kscott516 Revelation 5 6
10/15/13 4:18 pm

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rolltribe Ohio
10/15/13 4:21 pm

Any parts that a FEW of those countries move is a small part that's not contributing to the better healthcare that they have. Nobody is trying to copy our system, people try to copy the best and were constantly ranked near the bottom among...

rolltribe Ohio
10/15/13 4:21 pm

...developed countries

kscott516 Revelation 5 6
10/15/13 4:24 pm

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rolltribe Ohio
10/15/13 4:54 pm

Freemarketcure

They sound unbiased.

How about you actually look at the healthcare in other countries instead of giving opinions based on emotion? There is no factual basis behind the idea that our healthcare system has been better than SP systems

rolltribe Ohio
10/15/13 4:55 pm

The universal healthcare RIGHT NOW in other countries is proof that government involvement isn't bad for healthcare. There's no way you can dispute that, it's actually happening all over the world

kscott516 Revelation 5 6
10/15/13 5:00 pm

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kscott516 Revelation 5 6
10/15/13 5:02 pm

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rolltribe Ohio
10/15/13 5:06 pm

Another myth

The quality and efficiency is better in those countries too. Once again, no study that has ever ranked the healthcare systems and examined the quality, price, etc. has concluded that our system is better. None. Its simply not as good

rolltribe Ohio
10/15/13 5:07 pm

About the unbiased source

Exactly, what he wrote was a bs opinion.
What I'm talking about is the actual healthcare that can be easily examined, ours is more expensive, less efficient, lower quality, and leaves tens of millions of people uninsured

MJSeals Esq.
10/15/13 3:24 pm

Is this considering no obamacare reform?

Mattwall1
10/15/13 3:29 pm

For those who think that's the answer, put its fine. Since I know you don't, what do you think?

AngryAngel Oswego, IL
10/15/13 3:22 pm

Before we focus on universal healthcare. We must first lower healthcare costs. By using tort reform. And better protection of doctors, they are human, and make mistakes. It's our job to understand this and not become sue happy.

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AngryAngel Oswego, IL
10/15/13 3:24 pm

Because of the risk of malpractice, doctors would rather do test after test to be sure what the problem is. These tests cost a lot of money. Much more than other first world countries.