Show of HandsShow of Hands

JiveYoungKing October 15th, 2013 5:06pm

What do you think is the best and most fair way to improve the lives of the poor?

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omagabi Surf City
10/16/13 6:00 pm

Teach live skills and provide hope and a path to self reliability and responsibility.

commonsense America isnt racist
10/16/13 7:45 am

Teach small business and entrepreneurship more in school. More small businesses , better lives.

Ernest Make it so
10/16/13 12:48 am

Education, eliminate hand-outs, promote healthy community relations, get kids off the streets and into the home of their families/into social programs such as after school orchestras/community service/ect, and ultimately, drive out crime/drugs/gangs.

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Ernest Make it so
10/16/13 12:49 am

I also wanted to mention teach responsibility and the importance of having a job and saving money, not spending it left and right.

Ernest Make it so
10/16/13 1:00 am

and avoiding having sex/babies in ones teens/early twenties before they are self reliant. That's about all I can think of at the moment...

jeffrey306 steel town
10/15/13 10:45 pm

Education, apprenticeships, trade schools, counseling about 'family planning', short-term financial assistance as a bridge, not a sustainable way to live.

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DavesNotHere where am I
10/15/13 5:24 pm

First it starts with a top notch education. And instilling hope. Training programs for them so they have a better chance at a career. Maybe the government could give people free internet access so they could get education and training online.

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DavesNotHere where am I
10/15/13 5:25 pm

Apple & Microsoft are always giving their stuff to schools. They can give it to poor people too.

EmWalt Meet Jim the Duck
10/15/13 3:30 pm

Have volunteers teach classes about how to write resumes and applications. Then, have others coach them through money problems, and getting and staying out of debt. Teach a Dave Ramsey class to them so they know how to have a budget and stick to it.

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comppete Las Vegas
10/15/13 2:52 pm

Find them respectable work, so that their self-respect can rise up and they can begin to help themselves. When you treat people as you see them, they begin to act as you treat them.

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Abolitionist Voice of the people
10/15/13 1:35 pm

Cut their Capitol gains taxes, increase their dividends, let them dodge taxes by stashing money in offshore accounts and give the banks a 2 trillion dollar bailout

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EnderWiggin So disillusioned...
10/15/13 2:06 pm

Abo... Answers to help the poor... Not the beleaguered, downtrodden effluent rich.
(Not a typo)

Abolitionist Voice of the people
10/15/13 2:21 pm

You don't help the poor by giving the rich more money? That's what the media tells me

EnderWiggin So disillusioned...
10/15/13 2:36 pm

Yeah! I get it! Trickle down... Like urine!

isusd5
10/15/13 1:15 pm

Teach folks how to be self sufficient: classes, mentoring, support groups, education, job training, etc. Only provide temporary support while they actively go through that process.
Assistance vs Dependence

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pisomojado
10/15/13 1:01 pm

Affordable health care, child care that's available & affordable for starters. Well staffed schools w/ after school tutoring.

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MisterE Conservistan
10/15/13 12:59 pm

Advise them not to have kids unless they have a strong relationship with their spouses.

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pietsch Another Adoring Fan
10/15/13 12:47 pm

You need strong families with good mothers AND FATHERS to fix this. Without that foundation, it really is just a pretty hopeless cycle for almost everyone caught up in it.

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bMyComrade Stumptown
10/15/13 1:17 pm

While I don't necessarily disagree, poverty isn't new whereas single parents is fairly new within society.

MisterE Conservistan
10/15/13 1:38 pm

Single parenting is not a new concept. Societal acceptance of it is.

Ernest Make it so
10/16/13 12:55 am

So true! There are several studies that show fathers are very important to raising children (especially to girls). Single parenthood is NOT the ideal :/ and having several baby daddies/mamas only destroys families and the upbringing of children.

Ernest Make it so
10/16/13 1:15 am

Two sources (with stats) to consider reading about the importance of fathers and a healthy family structure (:

ncfamily.org/stories/091113s1.html

www.fathers.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=391

Jack14 Massachusetts
10/15/13 11:41 am

Stop giving them handouts

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GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
10/15/13 11:08 am

Hire the best possible teachers for schools in poor neighborhoods. Motivate the kids to finish their education.

Of course, that's idealistic. I know it won't always work ... But, in a perfect world ... :)

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kermie gaytopia
10/15/13 11:06 am

Quality education. For everybody. Always the best way to lift everyone up.

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violence Pretty hate machine
10/15/13 11:06 am

Prior to this research I could have given you some ideas. Now though, it's hard to say:

www.theguardian.com/science/2013/aug/29/poverty-mental-capacity-complex-tasks

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elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
10/15/13 11:24 am

Problem I have w/this study is personal experience dealing w/debilitating trauma issues - my own + those w/whom I've counseled. Those who gave themselves "permission to be victims" became fundamentally less functional. Unable to hold job, social prob

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
10/15/13 11:28 am

Those who fought to maintain *some* kind of job or donated time to others, who fought to maintain normal daily life, etc, especially those who stretched outside of comfort zone to help others dealing w/similar issues - these thrived & overcame.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
10/15/13 11:32 am

Many faced serious $ issues & lacked support on personal levels no less severe than those struggling only w/economic stress do. They dealt w/Eco stress *and* PTSD issues & other challenges @ same time. Not easy, not fun. Those who FIGHT= stronger

violence Pretty hate machine
10/15/13 11:36 am

I see where you're coming from, but I don't think trauma issues and poverty are comparable. I don't think poor America (contrary to what many would have you believe) are playing the victim card.

violence Pretty hate machine
10/15/13 11:36 am

For a lot of them every waking moment is occupied by thoughts of how they're going to get to work, how they're going to get their kids school supplies, how they're going to to take those kids to the doctor (do they risk missing work?), etc.

violence Pretty hate machine
10/15/13 11:39 am

These are very REAL concerns. And the problem is, if you're poor and you DO try to raise these concerns, the automatic response is that you're" looking for a handout" (to which I say, "Fck off.").

violence Pretty hate machine
10/15/13 11:40 am

The poor aren't JUST victims, they're criminalized by the middle class for their economic status. It's hard to get ahead when everyone just views you as a drain on society.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
10/15/13 1:43 pm

Having been in both places, I disagree.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
10/15/13 11:01 am

Help them start successful business &/or help them obtain effective skills & resources to obtain employment. Temporary support for those in transition & permanent support for those *truly* unable to work due to mental, physical, age disability.

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JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 11:09 am

I don't know much about economics first hand, but I've heard that small businesses reach a point where they to upgrade which isn't free obviously. Are you in favor of subsidies to small businesses?

SugarShaq
10/15/13 11:13 am

Small business can get loans from the SBA instead of subsidies.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
10/15/13 11:14 am

In general, I don't support subsidies. I would, however, support other businesses that come alongside new/newer businesses that need additional skills/resources to get over "new business crest." Gov "support" rarely most effective answer.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
10/15/13 11:19 am

I'm not opposed to SBA loans, assuming those loans are repaid & do not become simply a handout, which ultimately leads to corruption as ppl void of integrity discover a new way to scam the system & take advantage of taxpayers.

Scrazzle Winter is Coming
10/15/13 10:59 am

Cultural rehabilitation.

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kermie gaytopia
10/15/13 11:07 am

I'm not sure what that means. Is there something wrong with the "culture" of poor people?

SugarShaq
10/15/13 11:14 am

I think he means change the mindset.

kermie gaytopia
10/15/13 11:19 am

So there's something wrong with the mind of poor people?

Scrazzle Winter is Coming
10/15/13 1:12 pm

Yes there's something wrong. The socioeconomic environment plays a huge part in how well children perform in school. In short, they are not getting the same education even if they are sitting in the same classroom. The home environment is the problem

Scrazzle Winter is Coming
10/15/13 1:15 pm

If you could adjust the home cultures to match the successful, then how do you think that will impact the education? That one thing alone would level the playing field regarding race and college admission rates.

curly
10/15/13 10:48 am

Charity.

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SugarShaq
10/15/13 10:48 am

Every kid in this country gets a free 13+ year education. Enforce drop out laws. Offer shop and training for trades.

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JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:49 am

Drop out laws prevent them from doing so I assume?

SugarShaq
10/15/13 10:58 am

We have mandatory school. It's not enforced. They let kids skip and drop out with no consequences.

SugarShaq
10/15/13 10:59 am

We not ever hear about truant officers anymore.

JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 11:10 am

Yeah, I constantly skipped in my high school days. Punishment was suspension. Made no sense to me. I eventually dropped out.

SugarShaq
10/15/13 11:22 am

You get your GED? I live in one of the worst public school systems in the country. Graduated here.

JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 12:19 pm

Yeah, I'm bout to continue my education when I move to Florida once I pick a community college.

SugarShaq
10/15/13 12:22 pm

Why FL? Did you look at tallahassee CC?

JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 12:25 pm

Not my choice. It's out of my control. I probably wouldn't be going there given the option.

SugarShaq
10/15/13 12:50 pm

Tally has several colleges so lots of students. Look up LEBird on here. She is kinfolk and in tally. :)

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
10/15/13 10:40 am

Let them find their own way and stop throwing them crumbs. People can do amazing things when they have no other option.

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JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:41 am

What, if anything, do you do with those who do try and better their financial situations but fail? I presume in your fantasy country, sh*t would be very different and provide more economic opportunities, but what would you do here in that scenario?

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
10/15/13 10:43 am

That's what charities are for. Don't get me wrong, I've lived in rough parts of town, not the worst but walking by drug deals on my way to the bus was common. I have an idea what it's like. But I also watched my mom work her ass off to get us out.

JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:50 am

Fair enough. I'm just curious what everyone's answer is on the subject instead of asking another "comment here" poll.

kermie gaytopia
10/15/13 11:19 am

So your mom made it. Great. That does not mean everyone has the capacity or resources to do it alone. Your answer is to leave them high and dry to force them to "figure it out"? That's one of the most irresponsible things I've heard.

Happy Hong Kong
10/15/13 10:37 am

Eliminate the minimum wage, eliminate long term welfare for all except the very sick or disabled, promote entrepreneurship through micro lending. Pass the Fair Tax.

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JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:40 am

What's micro lending and the fair tax?

EnderWiggin So disillusioned...
10/15/13 1:58 pm

Careful Jive. The "fair" tax aint so fair. It's regressive. Do you think Mittens Romney should pay as much as you do annually?

Happy Hong Kong
10/15/13 2:01 pm

@handy: the same rate? Yes, but he would probably pay more in dollars because he spends more money than those with lower incomes.

Happy Hong Kong
10/15/13 2:02 pm

At the moment my effective tax rate is higher than Romney's.

EnderWiggin So disillusioned...
10/15/13 2:09 pm

And the difference, on the whole, would be drastically different, as there is no sales tax on dividends, which daddy left him in plenty.

FIAT2LUX On Planet Earth
10/15/13 10:37 am

Print money like mad and give it away while somehow not affecting inflation!

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JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:39 am

Haha, yes! What could go wrong???

FIAT2LUX On Planet Earth
10/15/13 10:40 am

Inflation and entitlement. :D

JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:42 am

Eh, screw it! The next generation can deal with that! And the next... And the next... And the next... And... the next.....

FIAT2LUX On Planet Earth
10/15/13 10:43 am

That would be us though, right? :)

JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:45 am

I like to tell myself that Fiat, I really do.

FIAT2LUX On Planet Earth
10/15/13 10:47 am

$17 trillion and counting… Lol

JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:51 am

Let's get it fam! We got this!!

Kris Humidity Central
10/15/13 10:30 am

Let them fail, let them starve, let them learn from their mistakes. Teach them, educate them on how to make a life, but don't just hand it to them, they have to want it, to work for it.

Teach them to strive for success, to become better.

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JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:36 am

I agree to an extent. So, is it safe to assume you're in favor of programs like FAFSA that help poorer people get higher education? And what, if anything, do you do with those who fail? Because some poor people are poor despite being hard working.

kermie gaytopia
10/15/13 11:21 am

I'm sorry but... That's a load of BS Kris. Most people in poverty DO want it, DO work hard. Who are you to judge whether they want it bad enough or are trying hard enough?

Kris Humidity Central
10/15/13 11:24 am

Because I've been there? My whole family has been there? I've seen so many people sit on their butts and bit do anything about their situation than halfhearted attempted because people pander to them.

kermie gaytopia
10/15/13 1:37 pm

You haven't been "there." You've only been in your particular circumstance. You don't know what other people are going through and whether they have the resources and capacity to do what you can.

Kris Humidity Central
10/15/13 1:50 pm

I've been around plenty in poverty Kermie.
It may not be most, but there is a good chunk of all I've seen that don't want to try, that very well could do better.
There's a good percent that just wants to blame others for their problems.

kermie gaytopia
10/15/13 2:32 pm

My whole career has been working with people in poverty and I see the opposite. Maybe we just see what we want to see. In any case neither of us is in a position to judge anyone else other than ourselves.

Rosebud Ohio
10/15/13 10:14 am

Teach them self-sufficiency. Be it job training, a (very small) personal loan to get a car if they don't have one, teaching gardening/canning/freezing/cooking, whatever. Help them in a way that allows you to entirely remove yourself from the eqation

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Rosebud Ohio
10/15/13 10:14 am

and they'll flourish rather than fail.

JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:17 am

So you're in favor of programs like FAFSA that give people money to attend college? (I'm not sure if that ties in with trade school, but I'm positive there is some form of financial aid) Would you want more money going to something like that?

presleyc5 tejas
10/15/13 10:24 am

Jive fafsa does apply to trade school. It paid for a good chunk of cosmetology school for me and helped me become self sufficient.

JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:34 am

Yeah, I'm going through community college because FAFSA, otherwise I'd have no business in higher education. Personally, I love that program and think it's a key way to help the poor. You're literally investing in better workers. Everyone wins.

Rosebud Ohio
10/15/13 10:56 am

Not necessarily. It's helpful but needs a limit. I like how it is now though that you have to repay if you fail, we as a country shouldn't be throwing away money like that.

Rosebud Ohio
10/15/13 11:08 am

Grandma- federal student aid, comprised of loans and grants. I think a limit usually around $5,000 a year but haven't looked at it in a while.

bringstheeagle Colorado
10/15/13 10:10 am

The creation of government mandatory minimum wages.

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JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:11 am

You mean increasing it or?

bringstheeagle Colorado
10/15/13 10:14 am

Increasing it with a mandatory minimum livable wage of $2800.00 per month.

JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:15 am

Do you think we could do that without losing a significant amount of jobs? Assuming we would lose those jobs, what do you do with those people?

JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:08 am

I'm a bit conflicted so I wanted others' take. I believe in a truly free market, but I do think safety nets should exist. I even bring this up because Fox "News" did a piece on people receiving welfare. They straight up said that it's outrageous some

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JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:09 am

of the people receiving welfare had air conditioning or had and played video games. That's ridiculous. I've went through two summers without an air conditioner and it's hell. Those pompous, elitist bastards really pissed me off with that...

FemmeAdamWest in the Tardis library
10/15/13 10:23 am

That's so stupid. There are definitely people who abuse the system and various programs, but they do not outweigh the people who actually need it.

FemmeAdamWest in the Tardis library
10/15/13 10:24 am

I don't know how, but I do believe the programs need to be reinvented. In order to do that though people need to stop acting/thinking that 90% of the people using are abusing because that's not the case.

JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:30 am

In Utah, they spent $31,000 to drug test people on welfare. 4,600 took the test, 466 did a follow up blood test... 12 drug users found. Yaaaay, fiscal conservatism!

m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3822750

Liberty 4,032,064
10/15/13 10:07 am

The elimination of government-enforced restrictions upon them and others, leading to increased opportunity for all.

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Liberty 4,032,064
10/15/13 10:09 am

Also, the elongation of licensing requirements and other business restrictions. This would re-afford them the ability to sell services to others without going through someone else, while also lowering prices all around due to increased supply.

JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:09 am

What would you get rid of for example?

Liberty 4,032,064
10/15/13 10:12 am

First, general business licensing and permitting, coupled with zoning restrictions.
Second, the minimum wage.
Third, occupational licensing.

JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:14 am

Excuse my ignorance, what are zoning restrictions and occupational licensing? I assume the licensing is like a trade school type deal?

Liberty 4,032,064
10/15/13 10:17 am

Zoning restrictions prevent 'commercial activity' from taking place in a 'residential zone.' You can have a home office or such thing, but it would be illegal to sell a product out of your home.

JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:18 am

Lol that seems stupid. What's the argument for it, it's an unregulated product?

Liberty 4,032,064
10/15/13 10:19 am

Then, to have any business you have to get a 'business permit.'
Occupational licensing includes special things like teaching certifications, cosmetology school, the Bar Association, etc. to limit the supply of any specific service.

Liberty 4,032,064
10/15/13 10:23 am

The most common argument for zoning restrictions is that you don't want someone like Wal-Mart being able to buy property next to your house and build a store.

JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:32 am

That didn't even cross my mind... But, I don't understand. Why would that be so terrible? I'm sure it'd be annoying for neighbors, but... I don't get it.

Liberty 4,032,064
10/15/13 10:35 am

It's because they think it could ruin the "character" of an area if people are allowed to build/do whatever they want. I agree with you, it's really just another means of people controlling others to fit their preferred image.

JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 10:38 am

Lol god forbid, freedom is only nice when I approve of it. That's stupid lol lets squash countless business opportunities and a more fluctuating economy because "character" issues... Thanks yet again for the knowledge Liberty!

Liberty 4,032,064
10/15/13 10:52 am

The current effect of all the things I listed is that it takes attorneys' services (which are also limited by licensing) to open any business.

Liberty 4,032,064
10/15/13 10:54 am

This not only makes it harder for people to start businesses themselves, but puts higher costs on all business, thereby raising prices.
The result is that "outside" business come in and act as "wealth extractors."
The poor get hit from both sides.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
10/15/13 11:10 am

@Liberty: nailed it!

JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/15/13 11:13 am

Seems that happens frequently. When I look at America, I see a bunch of traps and restrictions for the poor.