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Mattwall1 October 14th, 2013 11:15pm

Should states that do not allow for gay marriage have to recognize gay marriages performed in states where it's legal?

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kspells TheOtherOtherside
10/15/13 2:37 am

I said no because there is no such thing as GAY marriage. There is just marriage for any two adults.

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Mattwall1
10/15/13 6:11 am

I can't tell, are you saying two people of the same gender shouldn't be able to marry, or the fact I said gay marriage? (if that's why, i did it for the sake of clarification)

kspells TheOtherOtherside
10/15/13 4:05 pm

It's the word Gay.Im sorry it took me so long to respond I was road tripping it. Gender & sexual preferences are not factors that determine the right to marry. DUH!.....lol

Mattwall1
10/15/13 4:07 pm

Again I was trying to clarify between male female marriage and Sam sex marriage (which I probably should've said). What do you consider the factors to be?

kspells TheOtherOtherside
10/15/13 4:55 pm

Any two adults can marry even if they are immediate family. Whatever that union means to the two no one gives a rats ass about. Marriage legally protects the benefits of the couple that's it.Polygamy (marry the whole heard) no one cares but the U.S.

kspells TheOtherOtherside
10/15/13 4:56 pm

Courts will not support a union they do not recognize. So any 2 adults.

dotails DotUrTsAndCrossUrEyes
10/14/13 11:52 pm

God invented marriage so any marriage not under God shouldn't have to be recognized by God as marriage. I love everybody. Just because I disagree about which activities are healthiest doesn't mean I don't love you. You are created in the image of God

JustBob Your anger fascinates me
10/15/13 5:14 am

I'm fine with that, keep marraige in the church then.

JustBob Your anger fascinates me
10/14/13 5:20 pm

Taking marriage out of the law would solve that too

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Mattwall1
10/14/13 5:31 pm

Not necessarily. Would it still be a contract between two adults?

JustBob Your anger fascinates me
10/14/13 5:34 pm

No, why would it? Why the hell do we need a contract?

Mattwall1
10/14/13 5:34 pm

So basically just cohabitation, not marriage? That wouldn't involve the government. Cole was saying below a contract between 2 adults, which is why I asked

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/14/13 5:35 pm

Theoretically, the idea is that stable marriages make for more productive citizens. Whether that is actually borne out by statistics is a great question, though.

JustBob Your anger fascinates me
10/14/13 5:45 pm

I can live and raise kids with three different women if I choose, what difference does it make if I tell people we are married

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/14/13 6:42 pm

It depends. There are legal and employment benefits you get if you're married, for instance. If you personally don't care, more power to you, but I completely understand gay couples feeling it's unfair.

JustBob Your anger fascinates me
10/15/13 5:12 am

There shouldn't be legal and employment benefits. What is the logical difference between me living with my girlfriend and me marrying her?

Mattwall1
10/15/13 7:37 am

Bob, as long as there are benefits, should states have to?

JustBob Your anger fascinates me
10/15/13 8:39 am

Are you referring solely to contracts between adults, or also to, say marriages where there is differences in the age of consent?

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/15/13 8:42 am

If someone is under the age of consent, they are also legally incapable of entering into a binding contract. Not sure why you bring that up?

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/15/13 8:47 am

Again, not sure of your point.

JustBob Your anger fascinates me
10/15/13 8:59 am

So if they were of age, say 16 in one state and move to another where it is 18, does the 18 state have to accept it?

JustBob Your anger fascinates me
10/15/13 9:39 am

Just going over what I read, they don't have to recognize the marraige if they are minors and the state law is 18 and above

JustBob Your anger fascinates me
10/15/13 9:41 am

And if they do have to, then why the difference in consent ages by state when they can just go elsewhere upon parental approval?

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/15/13 10:26 am

You seem to be conflating two distinct concepts: the age of consent to sexual relations/marriage, which differs by state, and the FACT of marriage, which is a legally-binding contract. A married minor is considered emancipated for many purposes.

JustBob Your anger fascinates me
10/15/13 11:01 am

Strictly going off the age in which the minor can be married (I apologize if consent is the wrong word). Varies from state to state, and from what I read, the marriage doesn't have to be recognized in every state, emancipated in the original or not

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/15/13 11:36 am

What have you read? I'd be curious. I'm not an expert in marriage law but I would be surprised if a marriage's validity state to state depends on the parties' ages.

JustBob Your anger fascinates me
10/15/13 11:46 am

I've been trying my hardest to find whether they will or won't, closest thing is from uslegal.com saying that the state determines the age minors can be married. Not 100% sure this will nullify a marriage from another state, but still left wondering

JustBob Your anger fascinates me
10/15/13 11:47 am

If not then what is stopping them from crossing state lines to side step the law, then tying the hands of the state to recognize the marriage?

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/15/13 12:02 pm

I'm not clear on what you're asking. If you're talking about a minor crossing state lines to get married, he/she is probably doing it against parents' wishes, which might make that kidnapping, which is a separate question. But if a couple is validly

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/15/13 12:03 pm

married, I'm not aware of any operation of law that would invalidate it based on their ages. Any invalidation would be ab initio, eg if it were the result of kidnapping as suggested.

JustBob Your anger fascinates me
10/15/13 12:08 pm

Not kidnapping, but with parents consent, however, they are too young to get married in their home state, can they cross state lines (with parent in tow) to marry, go back home, and have their home state (that didn't allow the marriage) to accept it?

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/15/13 12:47 pm

Unfortunately we are getting into an area where I don't have good knowledge. If I'm not mistaken, I believe parental consent is sufficient for marriage/emancipation in any state, but again, family law is not my specialty.

Zod Above Pugetropolis
10/14/13 5:17 pm

Which is my answer to why it needs to be done at the federal level. There is precedent for this. It wasn't that long ago that the same question was being answered about certain heterosexual marriages. It seems like just yesterday.

Reply
Mattwall1
10/14/13 5:18 pm

I agree it should be federal. Until the day comes when anyone can marry someone regardless if their partner's sex, should states that dint allow gay marriages have to recognize marriages from those that do, under the full. Faith and credit clause?

doctalk not all who wander r lost
10/14/13 4:30 pm

I am very much in favor of states right, however let them get married, make money, and pay their fair share.

Reply
Mattwall1
10/14/13 4:31 pm

Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and

Mattwall1
10/14/13 4:32 pm

The effect thereof
Article IV section 1 us constitution

skinner Jersey City
10/14/13 4:29 pm

Come on Republicans the correct answer is yes it's in the Constitution.

Reply
Mattwall1
10/14/13 4:35 pm

I thought you were a libertarian.

skinner Jersey City
10/14/13 4:37 pm

I considered myself a libertarian for a while.
Then I met libertarians. Particularly Rebelfury76. That's when I realized I am too moderate to be a libertarian.

Mattwall1
10/14/13 4:39 pm

He's more of a minarchist than a libertarian, so are you just a moderate republican then?

skinner Jersey City
10/14/13 4:48 pm

Yes I'm a moderate Republican with some moderate libertarian leanings.
Minarchists are libertarians.

ModerateGOP26 Maine
10/14/13 5:08 pm

I find myself agreeing with Skinner a lot, FWIW. Haha, if SOH were a Congress, I think you could count on us to vote similarly as some old school Northeast Republicans!

Mattwall1
10/14/13 5:11 pm

There are some issues I agree with you two. Now, how do we tell congress we've rediscovered bipartisanship?

skinner Jersey City
10/14/13 5:13 pm

Moderate there is a virtual congress run by SpeakerAFly. You should join

ModerateGOP26 Maine
10/14/13 5:14 pm

Matt, I think we should. I feel pragmatism has always been a tenant of the Northeastern Republican! Compromise beats gridlock.

Skinner, how? Do I just follow him?

Mattwall1
10/14/13 5:15 pm

Yep. Skinner and I are justices on the Supreme Court

ModerateGOP26 Maine
10/14/13 5:29 pm

Awesome, I just joined. The moderate Republican caucus grows!

Mattwall1
10/14/13 5:36 pm

Finically, we rediscovered it in Columbus Day.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/14/13 5:37 pm

Whoa, what is this and how does one join/apply?

Mattwall1
10/14/13 5:44 pm

Ironically*
And just follow SpeakerAFly

skinner Jersey City
10/14/13 4:27 pm

Yes Article 4 Section 1
"Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the

Reply
skinner Jersey City
10/14/13 4:27 pm

Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof."

Mattwall1
10/14/13 4:27 pm

Yup

TomM
10/14/13 4:24 pm

I voted yes because I think they should, but I don't think you can force it on them. It would make some people hate DC even more. I personally think it would be better if the federal government could just get out of anything marriage related.

Reply
Mattwall1
10/14/13 4:26 pm

Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and

Mattwall1
10/14/13 4:26 pm

The effect thereof
Article IV section 1 us constitution

skinner Jersey City
10/14/13 4:27 pm

Exactly Matt

TomM
10/14/13 4:35 pm

I have never read the constitution, maybe I should. I was just considering the states would take it to court. If your suggestion applies why doesn't it already happen?

TomM
10/14/13 4:41 pm

I haven't read that either, sorry. You are challenging me here :-)

dreamitliveit IDLH
10/14/13 6:07 pm

DOMA was struck down a couple months ago by the Supreme Court.

Mattwall1
10/14/13 6:10 pm

Not all of it. Only section 3 was struck down if my information is correct

dreamitliveit IDLH
10/14/13 6:12 pm

I'll have to look into it more :)

dreamitliveit IDLH
10/14/13 6:17 pm

Ok, I read a little more. It's hard to tell exactly what the ruling is, but since the federal government recognizes same-sex marriage, for all practical purposes it makes it very hard for states to enforce anti-gay marriage laws...for example:

dreamitliveit IDLH
10/14/13 6:21 pm

I live in TX. If I were a lesbian, I could go to CA or wherever and get married legally. When I come back home, I would change my status with social security etc (for federal benefits). Texas laws can't prevent me from doing that. Next, I'd go...

dreamitliveit IDLH
10/14/13 6:24 pm

...to the Texas DMV, armed with my new social security card, marriage license & certificate, and copy of the full faith and credit clause. It would probably work. I had to do a similar thing with my husband (not related to gay marriage obvi) bc he...

dreamitliveit IDLH
10/14/13 6:24 pm

...changed his last name when we got married, and Texas is stodgy about that sort of thing. We won. :)

rainman1088
10/14/13 4:22 pm

States don't have to honor other states 'rights' or 'laws'... If they did, my conceal carry permit would be honored in Illinois and we all know its not. Can't have it some ways and not others

Reply
Mattwall1
10/14/13 4:22 pm

Actually, they do according to the full faith and credit clause, which I posted below

rainman1088
10/14/13 4:24 pm

We do not have a legal right to be married. Marriage is not a right afforded by any part of the constitution. I am married, but the govt didn't 'give' me permission to marry my husband... My church did.

rainman1088
10/14/13 4:24 pm

If I carry my gun into Illinois I guarantee you I will be arrested.

Mattwall1
10/14/13 4:25 pm

The full faith and credit clause still applies to any documents, including marriage contracts.

rainman1088
10/14/13 4:27 pm

My conceal carry card is a document. It is not honored. I have paperwork and background checks to carry a gun (a paperwork)... Not honored. Again, it can't be sometimes an not others.

Mattwall1
10/14/13 4:27 pm

Did I say it shouldn't be honored?

skinner Jersey City
10/14/13 4:28 pm

Take it to the SCOTUS Rain. Maybe you will win the right to conceal carry in other states.

rainman1088
10/14/13 4:31 pm

No, not saying you personally. Just proving a point that the law is apparently subjective to some people. I mean that some forms of paperwork are not subject to crossing state lines. I find it all moronic. If it's good for one, it's good for all.

rainman1088
10/14/13 4:33 pm

Skinner, can't tell if I hint sarcasm there or not... But people are already doing it in Illinois. Illinois has been overruled and it was deemed unconstitutional.

skinner Jersey City
10/14/13 4:34 pm

Oh no I'm serious. SCOTUS usually rules in favor of nationalization anyways, and this right is enshrined in the Constitution.

sojourner present
10/15/13 4:39 am

There is a legal difference between the license to carry a gun and the contractual license of a marriage. Too difficult to explain here but you are comparing apples to a fence post (meaning they're not even both fruit) as far as the law is concerned

Mattwall1
10/15/13 6:10 am

Thinking about it, I think blubbers may be correct. I'll have to double check though.

Mattwall1
10/14/13 4:20 pm

Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and

Reply
Mattwall1
10/14/13 4:21 pm

The effect thereof

jvc1133 61535
10/14/13 4:19 pm

Matt gay marriage is not a union, but like sex living together, okay,but even primates know better

jvc1133 61535
10/14/13 5:37 pm

B you may be interested I found out she is not dobie & setter, but dobie and Huskey & a handful your welcome

jvc1133 61535
10/14/13 5:39 pm

Oh that is my recent rescue dog

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/14/13 5:43 pm

Hooray for rescue dogs! The one in my profile pic is a terrier mix, and we also have a chihuahua mix (they are ubiquitous in SoCal, haha). Both rescues :)

AngryAngel Oswego, IL
10/14/13 4:18 pm

Read a story about this guy from Colorado, he was moving to New Jersey. He had some guns and licenses to go along with them. New Jersey Troopers didn't care and threw him in jail. If we change one we have to change the other.

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bethanyq Ess Eff
10/14/13 5:29 pm

I think plenty of people are in favor of nationwide gun laws, precisely because so many states are quite lax and it's very easy to get illicit guns across state lines since there is no border patrol btw states.

Cole12 ...
10/14/13 4:18 pm

Get the government out of marriage. It should just be a contract between consenting individuals.

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Mattwall1
10/14/13 4:22 pm

Cole, assume for the sake of the question that as long as marriage isn't just a contract between two people, but is recognized by the government.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/14/13 5:27 pm

Well, technically, if it's a contract the government is by definition involved, at least to the extent you want that contract to be enforceable.