Should we raise the debt ceiling?
Ever so slightly.
Of course. There shouldn't even be a debt "ceiling". Which is not to say we shouldn't control spending and reduce the debt, but the debt ceiling does seem to have been created specifically for the purpose of adding drama.
So whenever we approve deficit spending we automatically approve the ability to pay off the debt?
Well, right now *we* don't, but that is how it works almost everywhere else. My point is that the same congress that created the "ceiling" is also the congress that knew we would hit it when they added to the debt with unfunded liabilities.
I was meaning is that what you think we SHOULD do?
Responsible legislators would not need an artificial ceiling to keep from incurring more debt. Responsible legislators would increase revenue to offset every increase in liability.
Yes, that is what it should do. Remove the ceiling, and have it be implicit approval to increase the debt as necessary to pay for the spending congress has not just approved, but mandated. What we do now is dumb.
Yes with out question. We already spent the money via the budget now pay your bills.
I hate to say it, but yes we have to.
We should and at the same time cut some spending so this doesn't keep happening.
So what do you two think of this compromise proposal which was voted down yesterday? I'm specifically thinking about the dollar for dollar raise debt ceiling and cut spending. I'm assuming they will be found through a process like the sequester cuts.
I was against the 'compromise'. I think we need to give them some cuts, but not any that pertain to obamacare.
I think they should all come to the table and end the government shutdown and extend the debt ceiling and then ALL agree to some cuts...
First, go through every single government agency and cut waste and combine departments to get rid of unnecessary positions and waste. Then agree to reforms to welfare programs, all of them. Then agree to efficiently, and I mean efficiently...
... Cut the defense budget in smart ways. Find waste and redundancies and eliminate them.
I think all of these would cut a lot of spending.
I think the republicans would require some rather certain guarantees that the cuts will actually happen and I doubt a large part can come from defense.
If the debt ceiling should be raised by 1 trillion as I think has been suggested, then it's not just redundant work which have to be cut to reduce spending by 1t. There will have to be priority changes.
I think this is where democrats need to compromise. Create some common sense reforms to welfare and bring down the costs and make it a better system. I don't know how much can come from defense but I think a good amount could be realized...
I think a good amount could come from reforms to welfare and the government as well.
I would agree with raising dollar for dollar with cuts
That's not the debt ceiling necessarily though. The debt ceiling allows debts already incurred to be paid. Dollar for dollar would be reducing the debt which is separate if the ceiling itself
Matt, they can be separate, but in DC anything can be tied. This was also a requirement last time.
I agree they can be tied or separate. Idiot know in what way bob meant it though
I don't know*
I'm glad you corrected that. For a second I thought you called bob an idiot.
Trust me, I might not always agree wth bob, but he isn't an idiot. Not even close
I know and agree :-)
Autocorrect can give some odd situations.
Aww thanks you two, I saw what Matt meant and the feeling is mutual :) cutting the budget equal to what we raise the ceiling was what I was referring to.
The most basic of economic realities and principles tells us it is an imperative necessity. Republicans are panting with fire with this shutdown and democrats will have to cave in to their ransom demands soon.
playing* with fire
No, we need to cut bloated government waste and get big government out of all the stuff it shouldn't be in.
The debt ceiling deals with paying debts already incurred
Which we wouldn't have if we cut the billions of waste and bloated government. You don't need to raise it if you find the money to pay it off. Or you can believe Nancy Pelosi who says there are absolutely no more cuts to be made. The debt ceiling just allows you to borrow more to pay off those debts
From what I gather, you're still in school. Try running your finances that way and watch what happens. You don't get another credit card to pay off the first one you shouldn't have run up. Preferably you change your spending and pay it down.
I'm not saying don't cut the debt. We do need to. Not raising the ceiling would kill us though.
First of all: yes I'm in school, but the as hominem is completely unnecessary. Second this is more like saying oh I took this loan but I don't want to pay. That's the debt ceiling. Yes we need to cut the debt. But don't kill the country by not
Raising the debt ceiling first. And once more, the as hominem is just pointless
First, I didn't mean the school thing in a negative way. Just meant if you haven't had to completely deal with household finances yet, you'll be surprised at how it changes your opinion on many things.
Ok. Some do mean it ad hominem so I assumed. Sorry.
Second, I'm not saying don't pay our debts, but we can easily find the money to do so without continously raising the debt ceiling. I'm just tired of the government always getting bigger and more in control of our lives.
Comparing the US govt to a household is silly. No household barrows money at NEGATIVE interest rates. Govt needs to spend the money to get the economy driving again. Should we cut, absolutely, people just cant agree on where.
Aid to China is my first start, to zero.
We shouldn't have to. But after years and years of reckless spending, it's become a necessity.
We have to but we shouldn't spend such that we have to.
Well we can either default which would fuck everyone or we can increase the debt ceiling and avoid getting fucked.
Eventually we need to say that enough is enough
You're right. Enough with threatening economic collapse by not raising the ceiling.
Or enough spending money we don't have.
The problem is confusing long term with short term. If we don't raise the debt ceiling, there is a very good chance that the destructive effects on the economy will be such that there's no long term to worry about anymore.
I must concur with Bethany. The deb ceiling lets is pay debts we've already incurred. Not new ones
Unless we want to unleash potential global economic hell, we should. It's unexplored territory, I'm not confident not raising would be a smart move while I hate the idea of growing our debt. It could work out if we're smart.
But we're not smart...