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Zod Above Pugetropolis
10/13/13 1:12 pm

Of course. There shouldn't even be a debt "ceiling". Which is not to say we shouldn't control spending and reduce the debt, but the debt ceiling does seem to have been created specifically for the purpose of adding drama.

Mattwall1
10/13/13 1:15 pm

So whenever we approve deficit spending we automatically approve the ability to pay off the debt?

Zod Above Pugetropolis
10/13/13 1:56 pm

Well, right now *we* don't, but that is how it works almost everywhere else. My point is that the same congress that created the "ceiling" is also the congress that knew we would hit it when they added to the debt with unfunded liabilities.

Mattwall1
10/13/13 1:58 pm

I was meaning is that what you think we SHOULD do?

Zod Above Pugetropolis
10/13/13 1:58 pm

Responsible legislators would not need an artificial ceiling to keep from incurring more debt. Responsible legislators would increase revenue to offset every increase in liability.

Zod Above Pugetropolis
10/13/13 2:00 pm

Yes, that is what it should do. Remove the ceiling, and have it be implicit approval to increase the debt as necessary to pay for the spending congress has not just approved, but mandated. What we do now is dumb.

mlowe1191
10/13/13 12:52 pm

Yes with out question. We already spent the money via the budget now pay your bills.

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TomM
10/13/13 12:40 pm

I hate to say it, but yes we have to.

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SFLiberal
10/13/13 12:47 pm

I agree

alek12 Orlando
10/13/13 1:27 pm

We should and at the same time cut some spending so this doesn't keep happening.

TomM
10/13/13 1:41 pm

So what do you two think of this compromise proposal which was voted down yesterday? I'm specifically thinking about the dollar for dollar raise debt ceiling and cut spending. I'm assuming they will be found through a process like the sequester cuts.

alek12 Orlando
10/13/13 1:49 pm

I was against the 'compromise'. I think we need to give them some cuts, but not any that pertain to obamacare.

I think they should all come to the table and end the government shutdown and extend the debt ceiling and then ALL agree to some cuts...

alek12 Orlando
10/13/13 1:51 pm

First, go through every single government agency and cut waste and combine departments to get rid of unnecessary positions and waste. Then agree to reforms to welfare programs, all of them. Then agree to efficiently, and I mean efficiently...

alek12 Orlando
10/13/13 1:51 pm

... Cut the defense budget in smart ways. Find waste and redundancies and eliminate them.

I think all of these would cut a lot of spending.

TomM
10/13/13 2:14 pm

I think the republicans would require some rather certain guarantees that the cuts will actually happen and I doubt a large part can come from defense.

TomM
10/13/13 2:18 pm

If the debt ceiling should be raised by 1 trillion as I think has been suggested, then it's not just redundant work which have to be cut to reduce spending by 1t. There will have to be priority changes.

alek12 Orlando
10/13/13 2:19 pm

I think this is where democrats need to compromise. Create some common sense reforms to welfare and bring down the costs and make it a better system. I don't know how much can come from defense but I think a good amount could be realized...

alek12 Orlando
10/13/13 2:20 pm

I think a good amount could come from reforms to welfare and the government as well.

JustBob Your anger fascinates me
10/13/13 12:31 pm

I would agree with raising dollar for dollar with cuts

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Mattwall1
10/13/13 12:36 pm

That's not the debt ceiling necessarily though. The debt ceiling allows debts already incurred to be paid. Dollar for dollar would be reducing the debt which is separate if the ceiling itself

TomM
10/13/13 12:47 pm

Matt, they can be separate, but in DC anything can be tied. This was also a requirement last time.

Mattwall1
10/13/13 12:48 pm

I agree they can be tied or separate. Idiot know in what way bob meant it though

Mattwall1
10/13/13 12:49 pm

I don't know*

TomM
10/13/13 12:54 pm

I'm glad you corrected that. For a second I thought you called bob an idiot.

Mattwall1
10/13/13 12:57 pm

Trust me, I might not always agree wth bob, but he isn't an idiot. Not even close

TomM
10/13/13 1:03 pm

I know and agree :-)
Autocorrect can give some odd situations.

JustBob Your anger fascinates me
10/13/13 1:13 pm

Aww thanks you two, I saw what Matt meant and the feeling is mutual :) cutting the budget equal to what we raise the ceiling was what I was referring to.

veritas1 Panda
10/13/13 12:23 pm

The most basic of economic realities and principles tells us it is an imperative necessity. Republicans are panting with fire with this shutdown and democrats will have to cave in to their ransom demands soon.

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edrewiii
10/13/13 12:23 pm

No, we need to cut bloated government waste and get big government out of all the stuff it shouldn't be in.

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Mattwall1
10/13/13 12:30 pm

The debt ceiling deals with paying debts already incurred

edrewiii
10/13/13 12:35 pm

Which we wouldn't have if we cut the billions of waste and bloated government. You don't need to raise it if you find the money to pay it off. Or you can believe Nancy Pelosi who says there are absolutely no more cuts to be made. The debt ceiling just allows you to borrow more to pay off those debts

edrewiii
10/13/13 12:37 pm

From what I gather, you're still in school. Try running your finances that way and watch what happens. You don't get another credit card to pay off the first one you shouldn't have run up. Preferably you change your spending and pay it down.

Mattwall1
10/13/13 12:38 pm

I'm not saying don't cut the debt. We do need to. Not raising the ceiling would kill us though.

Mattwall1
10/13/13 12:40 pm

First of all: yes I'm in school, but the as hominem is completely unnecessary. Second this is more like saying oh I took this loan but I don't want to pay. That's the debt ceiling. Yes we need to cut the debt. But don't kill the country by not

Mattwall1
10/13/13 12:41 pm

Raising the debt ceiling first. And once more, the as hominem is just pointless

edrewiii
10/13/13 12:43 pm

First, I didn't mean the school thing in a negative way. Just meant if you haven't had to completely deal with household finances yet, you'll be surprised at how it changes your opinion on many things.

Mattwall1
10/13/13 12:45 pm

Ok. Some do mean it ad hominem so I assumed. Sorry.

edrewiii
10/13/13 12:45 pm

Second, I'm not saying don't pay our debts, but we can easily find the money to do so without continously raising the debt ceiling. I'm just tired of the government always getting bigger and more in control of our lives.

mlowe1191
10/13/13 12:57 pm

Comparing the US govt to a household is silly. No household barrows money at NEGATIVE interest rates. Govt needs to spend the money to get the economy driving again. Should we cut, absolutely, people just cant agree on where.

JustBob Your anger fascinates me
10/13/13 1:16 pm

Aid to China is my first start, to zero.

AngryAngel Oswego, IL
10/13/13 12:22 pm

We shouldn't have to. But after years and years of reckless spending, it's become a necessity.

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Ebola1 Florida
10/13/13 12:20 pm

We have to but we shouldn't spend such that we have to.

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DeusOrbus Stay Positive
10/13/13 12:20 pm

Well we can either default which would fuck everyone or we can increase the debt ceiling and avoid getting fucked.

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MJSeals Legal Eagle soon
10/13/13 12:04 pm

Eventually we need to say that enough is enough

Mattwall1
10/13/13 12:05 pm

You're right. Enough with threatening economic collapse by not raising the ceiling.

MJSeals Legal Eagle soon
10/13/13 12:06 pm

Or enough spending money we don't have.

bethanyq Ess Eff
10/13/13 12:07 pm

The problem is confusing long term with short term. If we don't raise the debt ceiling, there is a very good chance that the destructive effects on the economy will be such that there's no long term to worry about anymore.

Mattwall1
10/13/13 12:08 pm

I must concur with Bethany. The deb ceiling lets is pay debts we've already incurred. Not new ones

JiveYoungKing The Banter Boy
10/13/13 12:03 pm

Unless we want to unleash potential global economic hell, we should. It's unexplored territory, I'm not confident not raising would be a smart move while I hate the idea of growing our debt. It could work out if we're smart.

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