What more accurately describes the people's current relationship to the government: peaceful coexistence or us against them?
Last time I checked, everyone was distraught toward the government. Which is pretty ironic considering that whole "We the People" thing that was supposed to be our country's mantra and bright future.
It feels like us vs them, at least at the political level. The politicians "we" elect seem to already be owned by entities with interests that are completely opposite to ours. I've had great experiences with government service employees though.
Our military and gov employees are awesome. Our political leaders stink
I refuse to peacefully coexist with an entity that harms so many people. I can peacefully coexist with some of the individuals within the entity, but not the entity itself.
What "harm"? Please be specific.
Laws and programs that limit freedom. They may seek to help, but almost all of them wind up hurting someone. If you want me to be even more specific, the FDA is the first thing that comes to mind.
What about the FDA?
Many medications and other helpful services are delayed or denied because of the FDA. It also drives up costs of medications. It does a ton of damage and no good. Private companies can and will test their own products.
Puppy the FDA isn't perfect,
But it's far from unnecessary. And there's a reason we have the FDA. People WEREN'T testing food and drugs.
The FDA currently does not have a mandate to test "supplements" or insist that manufacturers test them, thanks to a major loophole. There is currently a concern about a specific supplement that looks suspiciously as if it has caused harm to a number
People start testing them because consumers start demanding it, not because of a law. And it may do some good, but it does much more harm. And it's at the taxpayers' expense!
of people who took it - involving liver failure as well as other problems. Personally I'd far rather have required scientifically valid testing of supplements, & I think leaving testing up to companies would be stupid.
I totally disagree, PuppyLvr. TOTALLY.
Puppy, we tried no regulation. It failed. That's why we have things like the FDA.
Companies work best when motivated by profit. Consumers provide that money. The FDA skews the demands and makes it not so profitable to produce a medicine for a rare disease.
Puppy: are you going to be in air tonight or just listgarten?
And I disagree with your statement about "companies work best when..." I think that's just wrong. Companies have been known to do some very crappy things because of profit and shorter-term goals.
That "harmful entity" is what protects your freedom and safety. Have you ever actually studied American Government?
@ Susan yes companies are known to stick it to either their employees(Walmart) or the consumers which is why if they continue the ppl can choose where to shop at and leave reviews etc. we win in a capitalistic society because we have more choices
There's a difference between wanting regulation and not wanting capitalism
JM - You can wait for the bad supplements to surface then, after they've caused liver failure in a number of people. I want assurance that they've been adequately tested *before* they hit the market.
Oh I agree with that Susan. Just like food and nutrition labels because that can affect our own personal lives. In some cases the FDA isn't strong enough when it comes to the food we consume
In some cases they're too hard as well...
@Matt Yes I will be.
@SF I know the government does some good. It also does a lot of bad. And the good doesn't override the bad. In fact, the bad outweighs it by a lot.
So protecting your freedom, making sure the country is safe, providing for the needs of citizens, and working to protect consumers from economic greed are bad things?
The govt provides children with an education, disadvantaged people with a place to live, access to affordable healthcare/insurance, the opportunity to get a job with a fair wage, etc. So you're saying all those things are bad?
Protecting freedom is good. Providing for people isn't, because to do that you have to take from some people. The ends don't justify the means.
Giving you a decent job with a fair wage is taking away from others? Providing you with an education is taking away from others? Guaranteeing healthcare coverage for all Americans is taking from others?
And what about the ROADS?!
It's not the government's job to provide for us. All the things you mentioned were paid for by others' money. It's their job to defend us and protect the freedom to provide for ourselves.
And what if a person is not able to provide for themselves.
Then we have charities and family, who help of their own free will.
We also tried charity only. And THAT also didn't work. No one has issue with charity, but charity alone isn't enough. And if course, some charities discriminate. Not all do, but some do.
And a government charity IS working? We're in a shutdown because of how inefficient the government is.
It's working better than no government involvement at all. If you want no restrictions and just charity and no government involvement, that's fine. We tried that. It failed for much if the population. There's a reason we have regulation. There's a reason we have programs like social security instead of JUST charity.
No restrictions and just charity didn't work. And again, what about roads? How would they be funded?
We are in a shutdown because of how irresponsible the tea party is.
I have no comment to what sfliberal just said about the tea party being irresponsible...there's no point in arguing with someone who doesn't have a clue.
Roads should be funded at the state or city level. And there should be more toll roads.
Also, we're shut down because both sides can't compromise. All of congress is to blame.
Jollyman93, you think I don't have a clue? Then you tell me why shutting down the government was an appropriate action.
So several hours and dozens of posts later, the only specific "harm" I see that you've named is having to wait longer for drugs because we're MAKING SURE THEY WON'T KILL US.
Anything else? :) or shall I assume you've made my point for me?
Did I say it was appropriate? No, is it the tea party's fault? No and if you think it is, that's very unfortunate
Some people don't have the time to spare, Kermie.
Well, democrats certainly weren't the ones who advocated for a government shutdown.
Keep telling yourself that
And you keep telling yourself that it wasn't the tea party's fault.
And while we debate who's fault the shutdown is the country pays for it
Time to spare for what? Naming ONE other harm to you besides having to wait for the FDA to make sure your drugs are safe? That's the only thing you ever mention.
So far I think that we coexist with them , but it is getting more and more strained. In some instances it is us against them. But a blowout is in the near future I'm sure.
Our government I believe has forgotten they work for us, not the other way around. We the people need to find a way to change this and bring back our roots
:) and I feel it's gotten too big and has it's hands in everyone else's pockets. It's choosing who gets special privileges and who doesn't making people feel in this generation as though oh if I fail it's ok the gov will take care of me..
I don't buy it. There are some bad apples and some bad laws. But overall it still works pretty damn well. We get distracted by things that are noisy but ultimately insignificant in the grand scope of our country.
Kermie it's not working "pretty damn well" when the choices in Washington are affecting ppls lives from jobs to cost of living. Government has over stepped. It's not my responsibility to take care of ppl who make bad choices
Respectfully disagree kermie. The government has taken on a life of it's own. We (the people) no longer have any control.
It's not my responsibility to pay for someone else's college getting an art degree that will honestly not do that much for society or themselves. it's not my responsibility to keep paying for people who have children or even abort those children.
We have as much control as we always have, which is to say not a lot. We never did. That was by the design of the founders.
We'll see what happens next election. I personally seriously fear that the polls are rigged? Or that for instance illegal immigrants are getting the chance to vote? We don't have that much control when gov keeps passing laws taking away our rights
I agree 100% jolly
Yes. I hate to sound like a broken record when on here but we need to hold people accountable. How are you helping anyone or society when you keep just allowing them to live with making poor choices? I understand everyone needs help once and awhile
but not their whole life (unless truly disabled)People must work hard and pull themselves up, not always getting special privileges for doing nothing to contribute to society. It's wrong to keep them there and for us allowing it to go on for so long
Anyways you get what I mean. God Bless America!
Us against them.
It certainly seems like it is "Us vs Them", especially when they are exempted from certain laws.
^^ this!! So much, this ^^
80% of what the government does works so smoothly and well for us we don't even notice it. Don't be tricked by the squeaky wheels.
The best government is limited government!
Can you provide some examples of the things we don't notice?
Watch the answer be Obamacare..... Lol Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Roads, clean food, safe air flight, expedient mail service, food for babies, medical care for the elderly, infrastructure, parks, scientific research, medical research, space exploration, habitat protection, safe working conditions, and so on.
....and defense. It seems that government officials are out-of-touch with the American people. This makes the public feel that the government is working against them.
Private services have proven to be more efficient than the postal service. Babies aren't getting food due to state dependence. National Parks are closed right now. Our infrastructure is deteriorating according to POTUS. Private companies are becoming
more involved in space exploration.