Show of HandsShow of Hands

mark4 November 21st, 2019 10:45am

Is it reasonable to expect scientists split on an issue to debate their differences?

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Zod Above Pugetropolis
11/21/19 4:41 pm

Discuss, not debate. All of the available facts support their conclusion, or they are wrong. There is no room for "debate".

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mark4
11/22/19 5:05 am

And if one side won’t look at contrary data, but covers its ears and loudly chants, la la la la la?

Zod Above Pugetropolis
11/22/19 4:06 pm

There are no sides. Not all data is equally reliable, and not all interpretations of the data are equally well considered, but the facts do not depend on interpretation or opinion. When two hypotheses are irreconcilable, one or both of them will be discarded as invalid.

mark4
11/23/19 5:27 am

That is the sheerest BS.

You’re better than that.

Zod Above Pugetropolis
11/23/19 5:41 am

No, it’s not, and I’m not (technically it isn’t possible to be better than to let the facts speak for themselves). Why not offer an example of a case in science where relevant independently verifiable data or results are being ignored? Why not offer an example of two “sides” in science, where one “side” refuses to accept or acknowledge the independently verifiable and repeatable research of the other “side”?

mark4
11/23/19 6:20 am

"No, it’s not, and I’m not (technically it isn’t possible to be better than to let the facts speak for themselves)."

Yes, let’s.

Dr Judith Curry on the "two sides."


www.climatedepot.com/2018/06/12/climatologist-dr-judith-curry-explains-her-conversion-to-skeptic-as-she-is-set-to-debate-michael-mann-curry-reducing-co2-emissions-will-do-little-or-nothing-to-change-the-climate/

Zod Above Pugetropolis
11/23/19 6:34 am

That is politics and policy, not science. The hypothesis that reducing CO2 emissions would have no effect on climate is untested. What we know about climate and climate change is science. What we should or could do about it, if anything, is politics.

mark4
11/23/19 6:35 am

Oh, look!

There’s a debate coming up!

mark4
11/23/19 6:38 am

Nonsense. It’s precisely about the science.

mark4
11/23/19 6:43 am

And the science of CO2 is known by everyone with any knowledge of chemistry. Organic molecules emit it at a rate dependent on temperature. More heat, more CO2. Less heat, less CO2.

mark4
11/23/19 6:56 am

Here is the smackdown.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVXHaSqpsVg

Which side presented hard data and which talked in generalities and ignored the data?

Zod Above Pugetropolis
11/23/19 6:59 am

Sounds like you’ve already chosen a “side” in a “debate” that isn’t based on science at all.

mark4
11/23/19 7:07 am

Yes, I did after noticing all the verifiably nonsensical claims of the alarmists and examining other interpretations of the data presented. Looks like you have too but won’t consider the other side.

How about that claim that heat leads CO2?
How about the debate I linked you to?
C'mon, do better.

mark4
11/23/19 7:09 am

I can see why the alarmists don’t want to think debate is a part of science. I think you can too.

mark4
11/23/19 7:14 am

Don’t stop now.

We have lots to go over.

Zod Above Pugetropolis
11/23/19 7:32 pm

You’ve already chosen your result, and have dismissed the available data. That’s the opposite of what those doing science or interested in gaining knowledge would do. There is no debate, and discussions with science deniers are inevitably a waste of time. The facts are readily available for free if you ever decide you might not actually already know more than the experts in the field, but until then, I have no interest in wasting more time than I already have on this.

mark4
11/24/19 4:21 am

WATCH THE DAMN VIDEO!

mark4
11/24/19 4:56 am

"You’ve already chosen your result, and have dismissed the available data. That’s the opposite of what those doing science ...."

Actually I’ve formed a different opinion based on the available data, you know, like that presented in the video you won’t acknowledge, which shows you don’t dare admit what science shows.

hannahlou wear a mask
11/21/19 1:50 pm

Scientists don’t debate, they do research and publish it. Facts and evidence don’t get debated, but they can be contested with other evidence.

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mark4
11/22/19 5:07 am

Which should be happening but isn’t because journals refuse to print articles from anyone but the hysterics.

(Wouldja look at that. I created a noun.)

hannahlou wear a mask
11/22/19 11:36 am

You obviously don’t know anything about publications and the scientific community, so I’ll try to explain. One of the most prominent and respected journals, Nature, publishes 22% of the articles it receives in a year. Articles must be peer reviewed and 30-50% are rejected before they even reach peer review. The articles are peer reviewed by top academics in the field your paper is in and they can either accept it or call for revisions. If the papers aren’t getting published, then there is a flaw in their manuscript that they aren’t correcting or there is a critical error in their scientific analysis. 🤷‍♀️

mark4
11/22/19 2:45 pm

And just how do you get articles approved by "top academics" whose standing is dependent on following the company line?

hannahlou wear a mask
11/22/19 5:00 pm

Top academics are accredited by their degrees and research. They’re not employed by the journal or paid by the journal companies.

mark4
11/23/19 5:26 am

No kidding, Captain Obvious.

CarerraBoy Colorado Springs
11/21/19 12:39 pm

That is not how science works. "Debate" has no place in the scientific process. Not is there such a thing as " consensus" in science...

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mark4
11/22/19 5:10 am

Which is exactly what one side of the AGW controversy is claiming and is one more piece of evidence those who push it aren’t strictly interested in the science of it.

susanr Colorado
11/21/19 8:40 am

Not really. That’s not how science works; it isn’t a debate.

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mark4
11/21/19 10:15 am

I get your response, but theories arise and the outcome of studies generate differing opinions. In a situation where varying opinions, representing different interpretations of the data are allowed reasonably equal evaluation, the best interpretation has a chance to win out. What value is there to a situation where one side controls the grant process and access to publication in journals?

susanr Colorado
11/21/19 10:19 am

I have some thoughts (a lot of them, actually) on that, but I’m getting ready to go out for the day. You deserve more than a quick response; I’ll try to remember to come back later (making a note to self...).

mark4
11/21/19 10:29 am

I look forward to it. Have a great day.

Think Lovin Life
11/21/19 10:38 am

Susan ... it appears that we’ve come full circle! Before scientists had gathered vast amounts of data debunking the climate alarmist theories anyone who dared to question those alarmists was derided as a science denier. The demand was for total allegiance to the hysteria.

Now that Independent scientists have the scientific data to debunk the climate hysteria, you suggest that science isn’t about debate. While I agree, that debate does not determine science, it’s equally true that hiding from scientific data is not science!

Climate deniers have retreated into their caves, unwilling to discuss the scientific data simply because it undermines their positions.

Malekithe My pronouns are GFY
11/21/19 4:18 am

Not the cult of climate change

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EarlyBird Portland
11/21/19 7:13 am

Why wouldn’t it be interesting to see the two sides debate?

kscott516 Masks fail
11/21/19 8:30 am

John Stossel set one up. The climate alarmists didn’t show.

EarlyBird Portland
11/21/19 8:57 am

Kscott- I confirmed it. You are right.
That says a lot.

Malekithe My pronouns are GFY
11/21/19 10:58 am

It would be but cultists do not wish to discuss only berate

TierasPet
11/21/19 4:12 am

I'd expect them to discuss the differences and why they may exist. When working toward a solution, giving merit to different answers to the same issue provided by science is important because it allows you to design studies that may lead to more complete and correct answers. If people refuse to discuss it, I would infer they have no interest in looking for more complete or more accurate answers.

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mark4
11/21/19 3:46 am

And if one side refuses, what would you infer from that refusal?

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mark4
11/21/19 5:22 am

HBNY has apparently joined those who’ve put me on ignore for insisting that AGW doesn’t rise to the level of science if one side insists the other shouldn’t be heard.

That’s the echo chamber at work.

MrMilkdud
11/21/19 6:44 am

He put me on ignore for disagreeing politely over a pretty minor issue.
Some folks just can’t tolerate disagreement.

mark4
11/21/19 6:50 am

Thanks for that. It bothers me a little when people won’t engage. It’s what I think we’re here for.

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
11/21/19 7:28 pm

He has me on ignore. I don’t even know why.