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Praetorianus November 8th, 2019 5:00am

Wedding vows usually contain the phrase "until death do us part", see link. Should divorce be banned?

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azsageguy
11/12/19 6:06 pm

I’m seeing homicide as a justifiable way to end a marriage based on that phrase.

Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
11/12/19 2:59 pm

That’s just glorified pillow talk. Nothing that should be take literally and/or in a legal binding sense.

bbkkanderson
11/09/19 4:02 pm

Not banned but harder to obtain.

FallingStar3 Petersburg, IN
11/09/19 12:41 pm

I disagree with divorce. To me, it's not an option I've ever considered. But I voted to not ban divorce because the Bible does allow it in the case of fornication. But I also disagree with some other people have said in their comments. Marriage vows should not be amended to say something different. People need to grow up and learn what commitment is. People need to stop thinking about only themselves. Commitment is forever. Commitment doesn't end when you get tired of picking up their dirty clothes. Commitment doesn't end when they lose their job and money gets tight. Commitment doesn't end when you disagree on something. Commitment doesn't end when someone walks by who is better looking or drives a nicer car or lives in a bigger house.



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FallingStar3 Petersburg, IN
11/09/19 12:45 pm

When you agree to marry someone, you are committing to a lifetime together. Marriage isn't hoping things work out. It's two people who love each other and are committed to each other walking side by side through the good times of life and walking side by side through the bad times of life. If you aren't willing to commit to that then don't get married. Stay single until you are mature enough to commit or find someone you are willing to commit to.

If more people would grow up then divorce wouldn't even be a thing.


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STEMguy Parties Are The Enemy
11/09/19 5:05 am

Government shouldn’t have been involved in marriage in the first place.

Liberty 4,032,064
11/08/19 9:26 pm

No, governments shouldn’t have anything whatsoever to do with marriage.

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Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
11/12/19 3:00 pm

Yeah, Liberty doesn’t need those tax breaks.

Zod Above Pugetropolis
11/08/19 5:32 pm

No, the phrase should be replaced with something more rational, like "for the foreseeable future".

BadSeed Oregon
11/08/19 1:28 pm

Never going to happen. Divorce is very popular. Especially with those in power.

Robert0111 Oscar Romeo
11/08/19 5:52 am

nope and nope.

wasn't part of our vows.

JPA1960 Illinois
11/08/19 4:03 am

In most circumstances.

People might take the construct of marriage more seriously. It isn’t something to mess around with.

Wackacrat Harford County
11/08/19 3:43 am

That trend is dying in vows. I went to a wedding where the girl wrote her vows saying"Life is a highway. I can't wait to ride it with you. You'll be in the driver seat and I'll have my feet out the window with the wind in my hair." That was the extent of the commitment. They got divorced less than 2 years later.

Another one I went to the girl said "I hope we can be together for a long time... I hope we stay healthy.... I hope...." Actually they are still together almost 10 years later.

TomM
11/08/19 2:39 am

No more laws. If people want to agree this between them and with their church that's up to them.

DTinCA Klaatu Barada Nikto
11/08/19 12:14 am

Vows, schmows. Consider it a contract and contracts can be broken with termination agreements.

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LazySteelworker USA
11/07/19 10:52 pm

I don't think it is for us to judge how seriously anyone took their wedding vows. There are numerous ways things can wind up not working out in a marriage and none of them have a timeline. Personal mental and physical health are of greater importance than wedding vows.
Divorce shouldn't be banned, the vows should be amended.

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bubba2526 New Jersey
11/07/19 10:51 pm

History has shown when divorce is made “illegal” or almost impossible to obtain spousal homicide increases. And what’s wrong with divorce people fall out of love and people change divorce is nothing to look down on or be ashamed of.

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ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/07/19 11:42 pm

Because marriage should be taken seriously and fought for.....people are too laissez-faire about marriage and specifically divorce.

I’m not saying it should be illegal but it should damn well be a good reason other than, “I’m just not into him anymore.”

bubba2526 New Jersey
11/08/19 12:13 am

You shouldn’t have to fight to keep a marriage going. Love isn’t supposed to be hard work if it is hard work to maintain love there’s something wrong and you should consider leaving so both of you can be happy. Yes everyone hits a rough patch once in a while but usually it’s caused by communication issues and communication shouldn’t be difficult either with your partner or you have lots of growing up to do. But yes people can just fall out of love. Love is a chemical reaction in your brain that’s brought on by someone else it’s a beautiful amazing cocktail of chemicals showering your brain and it’s possible for that to randomly stop and no one is to blame and fighting won’t make that come back.

ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/08/19 6:19 am

I TOTALLY disagree with literally everything you say, but then again - I believe a union between a man and woman is contract with God, not the others person.....and I have to honor my contract with Him.

Love DOES require you to fight for it, love IS worth it. If you think it’s that easy to drop in and out of love then why get married in the first place?

The point is - Americans and a lot of Europeans treat marriage as a joke, I want to take mine seriously.

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bubba2526 New Jersey
11/08/19 8:32 am

Why is it with god? Why would an omnipotent being give a single shit about your relationship with one individual person? And I’d say it’s between you and the other person unless you’re marrying someone named god in which case yes you have a contract with god. If marriage is a contract with god you shouldn’t be seeing anyone at all because you’ve devoted yourself to a god.

ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/08/19 11:04 am

Because you clearly have no love for Him, I am not going to try to convince you, you can read this if you actually care:


www.familylife.com/articles/topics/marriage/staying-married/gods-plan-for-marriage/embracing-gods-purposes-for-marriage/

If you want to have a thoughtful discussion beyond this - I will.


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bubba2526 New Jersey
11/08/19 11:30 am

I disagree with everything in that article. Religions have pushed marriage to be sacred and to be based off of the religions themselves to continue to create more follower thus growing their numbers power and most importantly their control. Religion is a human construct just like all gods. It is used to control the masses one does not need religion to be moral and ethical I know a higher percentage of atheists who are more moral ethical and less corrupt than the religious. But the real reason your religion pushes marriage sanctity so hard is just to grow numbers power and control that is all. The more power and control you have the more resources you can extract from your followers. And your article states one of the main purposes is to have kids and it states it is between a man and woman. Then pushing kids further affirms my prior point and just one other thing that annoyed me about the article is there’s no reason a marriage can’t be between same sex couples if love exists let them

ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/08/19 11:36 am

Guess we will find out when we’re on the other side.

I don’t follow a religion FYI - I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

:)

bubba2526 New Jersey
11/08/19 11:57 am

No other side to worry about as long as I leave this world a better place when I die for the people who come after me that’s all I care about once WE die that’s it until actual science can prove otherwise that’s it. I’m glad you have a personal relation with your god Gods and other deities are great coping mechanisms for a hard reality. Many people benefit from religion. And if that’s you I’m glad you have it, personally I have no need for such coping mechanisms and prefer to look at life the way it actually is and accept and embrace the randomness and chaos of reality. It’s that randomness and chaos that makes life beautiful. I don’t have a need to believe there’s an ultimate plan.

paranoidandroid peace love science
11/07/19 10:26 pm

No. Thanks to the Catholic church divorce is illegal in the Philippines. Ive seen how terrible that can be for financial/estate reasons and for abused women whose husbands kept tracking them down.

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paranoidandroid peace love science
11/07/19 10:29 pm

I respect that people are religious and believe in until death do us part to that level. I’m not religious and hope for respect re that in return. Live your life how you want to but don’t force your religion on me.

Praetorianus Fair enough.
11/07/19 10:38 pm

Then simply reject the wedding vows, it's okay.
But if you say them, religious or not, a promise is a promise.

paranoidandroid peace love science
11/07/19 10:58 pm

Marriage is a legal contract which can be legally ended. If some feel it’s a promise that can never be broken, kudos to them. But not everyone feels the same. Respect that and don’t force your beliefs on them. For safety reasons alone.

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
11/07/19 10:24 pm

Yes. Christian marriage was created to last a lifetime. If you're being physically abused, it's OK to separate for a while and pray for God to change your partner's heart.
Making divorce more difficult will make couples carefully consider the decision to marry instead of jumping in hastily with the thought, "If it doesn't work out, we can always get divorced."

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GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
11/07/19 10:43 pm

What about people who do not marry in a Christian marriage? I covered this in greater detail below and don’t want to copy it all here. You can scroll down a bit, to see my thinking.

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WorstGooEver Nuke the Hurricanes
11/08/19 6:28 am

Marriage was around before Christianity.

cpaswr just say the letters
11/07/19 10:07 pm

A little off topic. Marriage (in the US) is covered by contract law. If a couple wanted, their marriage could only last for 5 years along with having an unlimited number of options to renew.

Praetorianus Fair enough.
11/07/19 10:05 pm

This may be my most extreme view but I think yes, divorce should be banned.
What part of "until death do us part" is hard to understand?
In case of irreconcilable differences or spousal abuse, live separately but youre married. Until death.

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cpaswr just say the letters
11/07/19 10:08 pm

Hell no!!!

I’ve been married before. Getting divorced was a great thing!

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
11/07/19 10:40 pm

“Until death do us part” is a religious vow. Civil courts can not enforce religious vows. Are you suggesting that divorce should be illegal? I honestly can’t tell from your question.

Another important point ... As your linked article explains, most Christian ceremonies include this vow. However, many other religions (including Judaism), do not include “til death do us part.” And some people have only civil marriage ceremonies.

I hope you aren’t suggesting imposing this Christian law on everybody. That would be a serious First Amendment violation.

I don’t think you have thought this out thoroughly.

Having said that, I think divorce should be harder. I don’t think we can outright ban it, but I do think it’s too easy in many cases.

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Praetorianus Fair enough.
11/07/19 11:11 pm

I'm only asking a question, not suggesting anything but IF the wedding vows contain that "until death do us part" quote, it should be binding.

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
11/08/19 6:23 am

Tom, I can’t tell which user, of the several in this thread, you are agreeing with?

Praet, when you say, “it should be binding,” how? By civil law or religious enforcement?

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GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
11/08/19 6:25 am

Let me be more clear ...

In your opinion, should it be illegal to divorce, if your marriage vow included “til death do us part”?

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GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
11/08/19 7:40 am

Then, I ask you to consider this. The marriage vow portion of a wedding is a vow to God, not a legal commitment.

There is a legal aspect to marriage and to the marriage ceremony, but that’s separate from the religious part.

It would be a very serious affront to the First Amendment to turn a religious vow into a legal commitment.

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WorstGooEver Nuke the Hurricanes
11/08/19 11:04 am

Exactly. The religious aspect of marriage is between you, your partner, and God. Why do you even WANT the government involved? That seems like the opposite of what most republicans claim their values are. I certainly don’t want the government forcing your religious beliefs on my family.