Show of HandsShow of Hands

ConservativeD November 6th, 2019 2:39pm

Inspired by @kscott516 - Californians ONLY, please answer and comment. Do you believe that your state has a lot of major homeless/crime/needles/etc on the streets compared to 10+ years ago? Please respond with details, would love to know!

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theNobamist Silicon Valley
11/08/19 4:50 am

Yes.
My town had only a few (5?) homeless people who were long-time mentally ill.
Now there are homeless in every parking lot, sidewalk, roadway underpass, and bench.
Haven't seen needles yet, but lots of 💩 and 💦 🚪
My friends in other towns, be they middle-class or "killed it on the IPO!" neighborhoods, all say the same.

I know SF business owners who say biz is down because of the reputation of filth.

bonemouth Trump District
11/06/19 6:56 pm

Seattle, thankfully Amazon kicked in 1.5 million to bring some sanity to the city council.

hfhgsrjjdf
11/06/19 3:54 pm

I live in a nice suburban area and commute to a small major city in SoCal, all within the same county. I’ve never seen needles. There are homeless people no matter where you go...the poor cities have more than the nice ones. I don’t know if I would call it “a lot,” but then again, I have nothing to compare it too. As for crime and ghetto, it’s really weird. Again, I live in a nice city, and there are two cities to the south that are really nice. But to the north, west, and east, are towns that are run down, ghetto, and poor. During my commute, I can be driving through a really nice area, and then 20 minutes later a run down ghetto. Just depends where you are really. I’m in the one of the only surviving bastions of conservatism in SoCal, which could explain why it’s still somewhat livable.

Back to homeless...I had a relative who moved from LA a few years ago, and when they went back recently, they couldn’t believe how much more homeless there was, specifically on the overpasses.

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ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 9:51 pm

Thanks for sharing, curious what town/city your referring to? You don’t have to respond - was just curious! :p

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SoCalGal
11/06/19 2:20 pm

We have the most homeless of any state in the nation.
I won’t go to Los Angeles anymore because of the homeless, needles, tents and filth.
The homeless are now gravitating toward other areas. The guy who was wandering our local grocery store begging for money was a thrill.

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ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 9:52 pm

That’s more or less what the media has been saying, was curious if it was true or if it’s just hyperbole.

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MontanaToastMan Ca
11/06/19 12:16 pm

There are areas other than LA that have this problem....santa ana river behind anaheim stadium had thousands there...riverside has massachusetts ave where there are tent cities...saw a documentary where a 20 yr old girl said all she wants to do is take drugs, have sex and eat ice cream...no way to rehab that thinking..no amount of money will ever fix the problem.

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Blaessa California
11/06/19 12:44 pm

That's true, as I've lived in both those cities, but can you honestly say it's Only California where these things happen? Perhaps not in the chilly north, since living in the snow is not ideal, but in any warm weather state it happens. I'm not excusing the problems here, just saying they are not necessarily unique to California. We're just so big and populated, all problems are larger, plus people just love to bash this state.

ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 1:09 pm

Only California - no.

California with tent cities and one of the highest per capita - yes.

Most states don’t have laws that prevent law enforcement from breaking up the homelessness like California has.

Blaessa California
11/06/19 12:16 pm

I reread some of the other responses. Someone asked why California has so many homeless. Well, one word, "climate". If one is going to live on the streets wouldn't you want nice all year weather? Also, it's been reported that other states have herded up their homeless and actually bussed them here, especially to San Diego area! With more homeless comes needles, poop, etc. and the things you're concerned about. So now we have our homeless AND everyone else's.

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ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 12:57 pm

So they moved to a nice state, and settle? Is that the short answer to this?

ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 12:58 pm

You have about 25% of the total homelessness in the USA, so not quiet “everyone else”:


www.usich.gov/homelessness-statistics/ca/

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/06/19 1:14 pm

Blaessa, I have an article that disproves your theory. Check out the map on this page:

www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2019/06/04/typhoid-fever-typhus-tuberculosis-are-l-a-s-medieval-diseases-coming-to-your-city/?fbclid=IwAR3gQ2meoepDSuHS2yjA8Ux-MuZ64xt_3YV_RZvbf0lUZ4aD2nwZrhTd9xo#9afffa5610dc

If your theory were correct, the warmest states would have the highest homeless counts and colder states would have lower ones.

The highest homeless count, according to the article I’ve linked is HI. Of course, it’s great weather, but are you saying that other states are paying to fly people to HI?!!!

MORE

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/06/19 1:15 pm

The second highest rates on this map shows that this mainly a WEST COAST problem. WA and OR have fall into the same category, percentage wise, per 10K individuals as CA. You can’t say that they have great weather year round.

The third highest homeless population group included NY and AK, which you definitely cannot say has great weather year round. CO is also in that group. The ONLY two states that are in this group that could be considered good weather are NM and AZ.

Guess what ALL those states DO have in common? They’re run by LIBERALS!

Why is it that the warmest states....all of the SE, including FL and TX are in the LOWEST category of homelessness?

This map disproves your theory. The bottom line is that liberal states encourage homelessness by allowing people to live on the street, do drugs and defecate, instead of making these actions illegal!

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Zingerz Wisconsin
11/08/19 8:12 am

Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road, and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion. He went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he set him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took care of him. ...

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/08/19 11:21 am

Zingerz, is your point that liberals in CA that are the richest people in the nation should pay to take care of their homeless because they believe in Jesus?

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Zingerz Wisconsin
11/09/19 1:00 am

Jesus cared for the outcasts, if we are following his lead it would seem we should do the same. Just because there are liberals in California doesn't mean they aren't Christian or at least they may be Samaritan like.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/09/19 9:44 am

Yes, I agree 100%. CA is the richest state. They should be taking care of their homeless.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/09/19 9:46 am

I firmly believe this is a part of the reason why there are more homeless in large cities. In rural areas, we take care of our own. If someone is in need, people will get together to help them. For instance, after recent tornadoes in AL, groups of Christians got together and built something like 15 houses for them in a few weeks.

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Blaessa California
11/06/19 12:07 pm

Lastly, to those who judge an entire huge state by one or two areas, I ask is that really fair? The whole state is NOT defined by LA! The rest of the state is NOT like LA at all! I never go there, and know few people who ever go there. I agree there are some really crazy folks there and in SF, and I don't like them either! So, please stop bashing an entire wonderful state because of a small minority. Sorry to rant so, but I guess this has been building up in me lately. Thanks for reading.

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ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 1:01 pm

“Lastly, to those who judge an entire huge state by one or two areas, I ask is that really fair? The whole state is NOT defined by LA! The rest of the state is NOT like LA at all! I never go there, and know few people who ever go there. I agree there are some really crazy folks there and in SF, and I don't like them either! So, please stop bashing an entire wonderful state because of a small minority. Sorry to rant so, but I guess this has been building up in me lately. Thanks for reading.”

My question was not designed to bash an entire state, it is purely to determine if it is as bad as the media has pointed out? People that live there are certainly more informed that statistics.

Why is it the state isn’t doing more to address this considering that they have such a large GDP and some of the highest taxes in the country?

Blaessa California
11/06/19 12:00 pm

But to say that we have More of that than other large, densely populated area is just untrue. I know if I drive to a gang and drug-infested area anywhere I could be at risk, so I don't. I'm not ignoring it, but just keeping safe.

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Blaessa California
11/06/19 11:54 am

I've lived in California most of my life, but also lived briefly in other states and countries, so I can compare. It's unfair to judge an entire huge state by a few areas! After all my travels I have never found a better, more beautiful and more accessible place to live. I currently live in a beautiful and clean city. I agree there are areas which have the homeless and the things you mentioned.

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ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 12:53 pm

That’s interesting, did you know that California has the highest percentage of homeless (total California population compared to total California homelessness) while having the highest tax rates in the country and the highest GDP (meaning taxes to help address this issue) in the country. Why is the person to homeless percentage so high?


www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/mar/27/travis-allen/has-californias-homeless-population-skyrocketed-an/

“The report shows California’s homeless population jumped nearly 14 percent from 2016 to 2017 — to a total of more than 134,00 people. It rose nearly 9 percent over the previous seven years.

That’s much different than the national picture. While the national homeless population ticked up about 1 percent in 2017, it remained 13 percent lower than in 2010, according to an NPR analysis following the report’s release.”

I’m just curious how this is happening? I am for the most part NOT talking trash - I admit a slight bias.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/06/19 1:01 pm

Inserting myself here, because I’d like to hear his answer to this question. Here is an article that has a map that shows the number of homeless in each state. AL is considered to be a very poor state, and yet we have one of the lowest homeless populations in the US, while CA is one of the richest states, but has one of the highest homeless populations. Why is that? Shouldn’t all that extra money you have in CA go to helping people like that?

www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2019/06/04/typhoid-fever-typhus-tuberculosis-are-l-a-s-medieval-diseases-coming-to-your-city/?fbclid=IwAR3gQ2meoepDSuHS2yjA8Ux-MuZ64xt_3YV_RZvbf0lUZ4aD2nwZrhTd9xo#5c3b561610dc

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/06/19 11:44 am

💠 ConservativeD asked:
11/06/2019
Inspired by @kscott516 - Californians ONLY, please answer and comment. Do you believe that your state has a lot of major homeless/crime/needles/etc on the streets compared to 10+ years ago? Please respond with details, would love to know!

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/06/19 11:45 am

Why can’t people follow directions? EVERY state other than CA should be RED on this map...for “DON’T LIVE THERE!”

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ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 12:46 pm

Yes unfortunately this taints the details I’m trying to gather, but perhaps these are recount California transplants??

ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 1:33 pm

Recent*

Man lately my fat fingers and autocorrect make me seem dumber than I really am.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/06/19 1:36 pm

I was wondering what that meant, but got the gist of it.

😂🤣😂 Every time I try to enter something on hubby’s iPhone, it drives me up the wall. I hit the wrong buttons, and it’s EXCRUCIATINGLY slow, because I’m used to typing 80 wpm on my iPad keyboard case!

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ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 1:39 pm

I do 95% of my interaction from my phone. I have started using Siri to write it out lately to help reduce the errors......but rather than typos, it outright butches what I’m trying to type! Grrrrrr!

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/06/19 1:58 pm

Siri is HOPELESS with me. She can’t understand my southern accent and I end up screaming at her after she’s butchered what I was trying to say multiple time! 😂🤣😂

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ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 2:20 pm

Lol!

My wife says the same thing - except she has a northern accent! :p

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/06/19 2:52 pm

😂🤣😂 So Siri isn’t northern or southern. Maybe she only understands people that live in CA. It would make sense! 😜😜😜

Zingerz Wisconsin
11/08/19 8:16 am

Siri is a homeless Californian 😜
Siri/Google bot/Alexa doesn't understand me either. Cortana used to but they've killed her 😢

theexman Practical Atheist in L.A.
11/06/19 11:43 am

I live here and it sucks. The homeless problem used to be confined to skid row and now it is everywhere. They move them out of one place and they just pop up somewhere else. Tens of thousands of homeless, drug addicts, early released criminals of every kind and a out of control level of gangs. Ten years ago my wife and I used to walk to our local lake and park, now that park is home to several hundred homeless and their trash. You can not walk around here without running into a few whackos who want to harm you. And don’t forget how horrific the traffic is everywhere.

ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 9:56 pm

That stinks - have you considered leaving? I wouldn’t want to live in a neighborhood that has gone downhill so much.

I love our area in Texas, it’s growing, crime is relatively low, and quality of life is just downright nice here. I love a society that is not full of crime, I wish the feeling of being able to leave your doors unlocked existed everywhere..... :(

theexman Practical Atheist in L.A.
11/07/19 4:25 am

I was born and raised in Texas, lived there until the age of 30 and now I’ve been in California 30 years and I’m ready to go back to home to Texas, but my wife isn’t ready yet. We are headed to Texas this coming week and I’m hoping I can change her mind.

RussianThunder Russia and USA
11/06/19 11:22 am

I don’t live there. Visited and hated it.

smart1
11/06/19 10:55 am

OK, I’ll play. But first a few facts. There are 40,000,000 people in California. If California were a country it would rank 34th out of 194 in population. Los Angeles County alone has a population of 10,000,200 which makes it bigger than Montana, Rhode Island, Delaware, South Dakota, North Dakota, Alaska, Vermont and Wyoming combined - one California County equals the population of eight states. Bottom line, California is big and that’s important to keep in mind when discussing social ills and issues. Secondly the economy. California’s economy of 2.7 trillion dollars is only smaller than the total U.S. economy (which includes CA), China, Japan and Germany making it the fifth largest economy in the world. So why does population and economy matter?
It matters because California is really more like a country than a state. It’s big, it has a vibrant economy and a large population. It, like countries, also has problems.

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ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 11:04 am

I’m not trying to say one thing or another. We (people that don’t live there) here about how bad things are, I am just trying to get an adequate feeling from people on the ground.

Do you live in California?

smart1
11/06/19 11:06 am

Next, the problems. Homelessness is a growing problem. Cities and counties have been tackling the issue for years and spending hundreds of millions of dollars to provide housing, counseling, outreach, shelters and education. The sad reality is that many people who are homeless choose to be and reject any form of assistance. Many are mentally ill, many are kids timed out the foster care system, many are Vets suffering from PTSD, many are drug and/or alcohol addicted. There are services for all these issues, but you can’t force people to accept them. It is also important to realize that a quickly growing segment of the homeless population is the working poor. Rent for a one bedroom apartment in San Francisco typically goes for $3000 a month making a job paying even $15 an hour out of touch for many, so they live in their cars or old RVs.

smart1
11/06/19 11:08 am

@ConservativeD. Yes, I do. We have property in both northern and southern California and my business is based in the state.

smart1
11/06/19 11:32 am

And now to your question of “poop” and “needles” in LA and San Francisco. And this is why the whole population thing is important - more people = more problems. There are areas of both cities that everyone knows to avoid, just like large population cities in countries all over the world. Those tend to be the areas where you find the people we’re discussing. I was just in San Francisco a few weeks ago and did a “man on the street” in response to a similar question posed by @KellyDimples. As I reported to her during my stay and walking around the city I saw one instance of “poop” (dog and the owner promptly picked it up), zero instances of “needles” and 5-6 people who appeared homeless. Oh and a couple pan handlers and one crazy guy yelling about Jesus in front of a BART entrance. As for LA, I spend as little time in the city proper as possible. The traffic is a nightmare. But I’m going to assume it’s the same, unless you venture into the areas that people knowingly avoid.

smart1
11/06/19 11:36 am

This is a lot of words to say that problems exist. They exist all over the world and as the population increases, it’s going to get worse.
So, in my opinion, rather than demonizing California, it would make more sense to study what’s been done. What’s been successful. What’s failed. And formulate plans for the future. Because as the populations grow in the cities and states in the country, the current issues in the largest state will follow.

ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 11:55 am

So if you guys have a country inside itself, why are laws not enacted to help cleanup the homelessness issues? You could pass laws that incentivize landlords to take on low income families. I can think of a TON of things.....inteatingly enough you pointed out the GDP of your state, so in reality there should be ample money to go around to address these things.

Basically what I’m getting at - California from my perspective is a microcosm of what American could turn into as more progressive agendas move forward........we other that is good or bad, is in the ey of the beholder.

Why is it that California has such a MASSIVE homelessness issue compared to the rest of the USA, this also includes a percentage of people, so amount of population is not a factor, when you consider that Cal, Hawaii, Oregon, NewYork, and DC have 20% of all the population yet 45% of all the homelessness....

smart1
11/06/19 12:10 pm

Sigh. There are myriad laws, statutes, programs, policies related to homelessness. There are city/county/state programs and assistance that provide low income housing. There are religious organizations, government organizations and non profits all solely addressing homelessness, mental health, drug dependency and alcohol addiction. There are police and sheriff task forces dedicated to those problems and the issue of gangs. I’m sure if you have new ideas anyone of them would be eager to hear your plans.
It’s short sighted to dismiss the impact of population by only looking at percentages and it’s wrong to say that the problems are due to a progressive state government. I’d hate to think what the problems would look like if the state were run by conservatives. Chances are they would just look the other way and toss everyone out like Reagan did. Have a good day.

ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 12:32 pm

Again this is not about demonizing but for a “country” with as much IG wealth as California have, why is there such a massive homelessness issue? I struggle with the idea of laws that get passed that let people squat where they want, it’s like the border issues our country have. Open borders (similar to open squatter rules), encourages more, I would say that California is an example of that - wouldn’t you?

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ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 12:40 pm

calwatchdog.com/2018/09/18/9th-circuit-california-cities-must-let-homeless-sleep-on-streets/


While the ruling involved a 2009 law adopted by Boise, Idaho, it is binding on California, which is one of the states under the 9th appellate court, which is based in San Francisco.

“[J]ust as the state may not criminalize the state of being ‘homeless in public places,’ the state may not ‘criminalize conduct that is an unavoidable consequence of being homeless — namely sitting, lying, or sleeping on the streets,’” Judge Marsha Berzon wrote for a three-judge panel.

The finding that the law is a cruel and unusual punishment under the Eighth Amendment was welcomed by activists who have long argued that such restrictions make being poor a crime.”

Fundamentally this is like saying, you can sleep where you want, bring your buddies - since most states have laws that prohibit this. I personally think this exacerbates the problem.

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ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 12:43 pm

“Sigh. There are myriad laws, statutes, programs, policies related to homelessness. There are city/county/state programs and assistance that provide low income housing. There are religious organizations, government organizations and non profits all solely addressing homelessness, mental health, drug dependency and alcohol addiction. There are police and sheriff task forces dedicated to those problems and the issue of gangs.”

I’m not saying these things don’t exist- I’m saying that California has these issues, no other state has the issue to the same extent........and sheer population cannot be the primary reason, it can complicate things. Also unwillingness (which is VERY interesting....why someone would not willingly take help....even if you include the likelihood that they are mentally ill) isn’t the primary reason either, it just doesn’t help the situation.

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smart1
11/06/19 4:32 pm

Today, an average California home costs $440,000, about two–and–a–half times the average national home price ($180,000). Also, California's average monthly rent is about $1,240, 50 percent higher than the rest of the country ($840 per month).Mar 17, 2015
lao.ca.gov › reports › finance
California's High Housing Costs: Causes and Consequences

ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 5:36 pm

The government could step in and help people to afford this. You have the GDP, and the ability to tax the individuals in those states. HECK we can trial run taxing the CRAP out of the rich and see who stays in California. If they stay, then if Bernie or Warren take the helm, and move to radically increase taxes on the wealthy we can find out who would leave the country or not.

My point is - I personally think the homelessness issues is due to bad governance, and that progressive ideology can be benificial to some but there is a balance that needs to be maintained and California doesn’t know how to achieve that balance.......something is “off” about all of this.

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ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 5:41 pm

From your Bloomberg article:

“How did we get here? Simply put, bad government—from outdated zoning laws to a 40-year-old tax provision that benefits long-time homeowners at the expense of everyone else—has created a severe shortage of houses. While decades in the making, California’s slow-moving disaster has reached a critical point for state officials, businesses and the millions who are straining to live there.”

That’s an interesting statement.....

“McKinsey & Co. estimated in 2016 that California needed some 3.5 million more homes by the middle of next decade—a figure that Governor Gavin Newsom made a central part of his administration’s goals. A more recent analysis suggests it may take the state until 2050 to meet the target.”

So how did this happen? How could lawmakers not project that zoning efforts for new homes not be provided? Does California lawmakers not have land around those cities at all?

Quinnipiac Here
11/06/19 10:11 am

I once saw a bum take free food to leave a restaurant, go outside and take a shit right next to the door. I have since moved my family the FuCK out of the bay.

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ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 9:58 pm

I had a buddy leave the Bay Area (he lived in Sunnyvale) - abort that area was not as bad, he just hated the progressive state there, so he moved to Texas.....I warned him that Texas is becoming purple.......he wanted to help the red come back. :p

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Zach21 California
11/06/19 8:26 am

My particular city is clean, so no problems there.

It really depends on what areas you strategically avoid. San Francisco and LA have really nice areas but they also have 3rd world country-type conditions.

I don’t know if the problem is worse today than 10 years ago. I’d have to research more.

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Think Lovin Life
11/06/19 8:16 am

I used to live there and still have friends trapped in California. The problems have escalated over the past thirty years to make the state unlivable.

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ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/06/19 7:40 am

I don’t live there so I don’t feel like I have any place to talk. Would love to get details from Californians, especially those that love in the cities...!