Show of HandsShow of Hands

mark4 November 4th, 2019 7:15pm

People tend to operate within a consideration of what will benefit themselves first, theirs second, friends third, and others fourth.

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mark4
11/04/19 12:26 pm

It implies one should not rationally expect someone else to be most concerned with someone else’s welfare.

mark4
11/04/19 12:43 pm

Note this is a truism but is not universal.

omniku dot com
11/04/19 12:45 pm

I agree. We can’t have a society based on pure collectivism. And not just a free society; every society requires some form of individualism. Communism has proved this with its repeated historical failure at governance.

At the same time, we also can’t have a society based solely on individualism. Civilized society is, by definition, a balance of independence and interdependence.

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mark4
11/04/19 12:52 pm

A recognition of interdependence can’t be an aspect of individualism? When Og decided Nog was better at raising goats while he was better at chickens, and decided to trade, did that obviate individualism?

omniku dot com
11/06/19 1:14 pm

Sure, but I think a lot of people take individualism to mean “screw everyone else, gimme minze”. That isn’t sustainable for a society.

I think the income gap is a direct reflection of the philosophy that one only needs to worry about #1. That’s how the system got rigged... people with power created policy and systems that help consolidate that power. And they convinced a lot of the public that they are just practicing rugged individualism when in fact they are using a rigged system to suck everyone dry. Studies of dozens of civilizations around the world and throughout history found the common denominator is the income gap rose sharply shortly before the collapse. It destabilizes society.

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mark4
11/07/19 4:56 am

With respect, gimme mine isn’t even a thing.
If it’s mine why wouldn’t I already have it.
Now when it comes to someone taking mine, screw them. I donate generously from mine, not as some duty but out of a loving response to the blessings I’m heir to. If some others don’t, that’s on them and not a matter for me to bother with.
For those people who are so self righteous about taking what belongs to someone else to use for their "good purposes," look what you accomplish. You’ve nearly destroyed the black family and doomed countless people to an ambitionless poor life. You’ve made the entire world poorer by profligately wasting what would have been the seed money that would have created many more jobs and resulted in upward pressure for wage hikes.

mark4
11/07/19 5:02 am

From my own studies, empire extinction has been accompanied by huge public works programs, and it makes sense. A populace of entitled, ambitionless people is ripe for the picking.

mark4
11/07/19 5:14 am

And just what is wrong with an income gap?
The world is not a static place. The amount of wealth in the world isn’t either. The fact that someone else has a lot has absolutely no bearing on how much you may have except for ONE thing!
You’re absolutely correct that money can buy power. It always has. It always will. The limiting factor is not the money but the power. Limit government power and you limit what the money can buy. Big business without ways to stop competition. Imagine that.

omniku dot com
11/07/19 5:53 am

No I meant “gimme minze” as in “I only care about myself screw you”.

I agree a lot of government programs have good intentions, but only make problems worse. That’s why I think it’s wrong to pretend we live under a free market. We live under a system that has been rigged by lobbyists, special interests, and other financial elites.

So I’m not a fan of collectivism or screw-you-ism. I’m a fan of balance. I am opposed to the consolidation of power regardless of whether it’s public or private.

A society simply can’t function without some shared institutions. Do you support the concept of a US military or do you believe we should all just fight for ourselves to defend our country?

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omniku dot com
11/07/19 5:55 am

Some income gap is good. It’s healthy for an economy and society. Too much income gap is the problem. It destabilizes society. It ultimately leads to things like the French Revolution, the Peasants’ Revolt, the Fall of Rome, etc.

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mark4
11/07/19 8:45 am

Now, if only you were in charge of things.

omniku dot com
11/07/19 10:33 am

Not sure if you’re being sarcastic, but I’ll take it at face value... flattered, but I’ll pass. I don’t think any single person should be in charge, not even myself. I want less centralization, not more. I believe government should be as local as possible (with obvious exceptions for defense, national security, and other matters of public safety that affect the country as a whole).

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mark4
11/07/19 2:25 pm

Look at that.
We agree.

omniku dot com
11/07/19 2:46 pm

I thought we might. Feels good to agree! 😀