Show of Hands

As if it didn’t take five straight centuries of invading armies to finally reduce the Romans to a single city, and even then it was still a close battle! Not to mention Roman contributions to the world far outweigh Ottoman contributions in any area you can name.

Not a close comparison by any means.

Plus, the Romans were foundational to Western civilization in a way that the Ottomans were not for Islamic civilization. Comparing the Roman Empire with the Rashidun, Umayyad, and Abbasid caliphates would be more analogous.

Also, Romans de facto had more influence on world culture because they had a state policy of Romanization, where they would attempt to Latinize foreign populations to spread Romanitas. The Ottomans, on the other hand, wanted to keep their own Ottoman culture separate from from their subject populations so that they could milk them for taxation purposes through the millet system, which was lucrative but limited the amount of cultural influence they could actually project.

This is why there are at least five important national languages that are heirs to the Roman tongue and only one that’s an heir to that of the Ottomans, and even then, modern Turkish isn’t actually descended directly from Ottoman Turkish either.

descended directly from Ottoman Turkish either.

I’m not actually arguing that the Ottomans contributed more to the world than the Romans. I’m just saying the pictures are straw man arguments.

I agree with everything you said in this thread, except your analysis of the millet system, which I think was actually a really inspiring model of religious freedom. Sure, it helped keep order too, but I think their respect for differences within their empire is far more noble than the Romans emphasis on cultural erasure and forcing the religions of their conquered people’s into one giant pantheon.

I also just resent the glorification of the Roman Empire. Sure, they made a lot of contributions to Western civilization, but they were also tyrants, war mongers, hedonists, and ever profligate. I’m glad they’re gone. This kind of romanticism for the Roman Empire reminds me of the Duce.

Go back to Asia Minor and take your devshirme with you 😤 #latingang

Also if any of you vote Ottoman over Roman on this, we’re no longer friends. This is non negotiable.

Have you taken like, a single history course?