Show of Hands

We should be limiting the Muslims.
They don’t assimilate. Rather they isolate and destroy the host.

And if we have the resources to receive more why aren’t those resources being used to help the existing homeless, jobless, elderly, etc...?

Excellent question.

Not true, dramatic, but not true.
cis.org/Vaughan/Waiting-List-Legal-Immigrant-Visas-Keeps-Growing

So do you think the real problem is immigration as a whole? Because if the problem with illegal immigrants is that they’re not registered anywhere and it’s harder to make them pay taxes then this approach would solve the issue. But if you think there are too many immigrants then yeah, this wouldn’t be the best solution.

Maybe I should have said "remove some of the barriers"

I agree that some are necissary, but I hear stories of people waiting ten years for approval and that just seems rediculous. If that's the case it's no wonder people just decide to sneak across the boarder.

That’s not what it means

And comments like this add so much intelligence...must be proud!

Posting an emoji for every brain cell you wish you had doesn’t add anything to this discussion.

But it gets libtards like you mad💁‍♂️😂

When one of the most fundamental aspects about being a country is having borders, and you want to let everybody in, doesn’t add much to your intelligence...💁‍♂️Nice try though

Thanks for your intellectual confirmation!

I’m not mad, just disappointed.

So is it all immigration that's a problem, or just illegal i.migration like a lot on the right claim?

Yes, it is illegal immigration that is the only major problem.

I would argue that we should tighten up immigration entirely and admit half the numbers we do today......America is pretty overpopulated at the moment.....

....

More workers is almost always better for our economy, and we also require a growing population to support social security. Quite frankly if anything we should expand legal immigration to grow the economy as well as our tax base.

No, I’m fine with consolidating what we have for a bit.

Our unemployment rate is reaching so low that more workers are necessary. Streamlining the immigration process will expand out access to low cost labor, while giving a boon to the SS deficit. It’s potentially the easiest way to alleviate our SS problem.

I’m not anticipating getting a dime of SS - plus not a fan of SS. Let me keep my money so I can save it.....

I actually agree with you on this one!

Some cities might be overcrowded, but the country as a whole is not. I pass a LOT of empty land in the way to work every day.

The problem is that the economy is trying to shift even more toward skilled labor and the introduction of unskilled first generation immigrants is the problem. There is physically enough space to put them. When america was being founded all the way through the 70s there was more union/farming jobs than laborers that could fill them. This is becoming further from the truth and now the unskilled laborers are working minimum wage (fast food employee type) jobs where they are really just a burden on society.

I see the logic in your argument, except that I don't believe any job is a drain on society. If there is enough demand for that job that someone is willing to hire you to do it, it must be benefiting society in some way.

I do want to see us build our manufacturing base back up, that would make a lot of sense.

This user is currently being ignored

www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2019/01/04/312000-jobs-added-in-december-manufacturing-growing-714-faster-under-trump-than-obama/#4a8295675b50

714% faster than under Obama, that’s pretty good right???

America is a country of immigrants.

And they can come in through the door that’s attached to the great big wall.

The support? They can't vote unless they become citizens.

Credo - while that might be true, it doesn’t stop some from doing it.....

....

In the past decade there have only been 36 cases of voter fraud.

I’m sorry WAPO doesn’t get to be the decider of that - plus it’s only what they have found. Have you taken into account possibility and likelihood?

www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-980_f2q3.pdf

“It has been estimated that 24 million voter registrations in the United States—about one in eight—are either invalid or significantly inaccurate.”

They are citing a pew research poll - the Supreme Court believes there is a valid reason for Ohio to cleanup their voter rolls.


www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/docs/pacei-govt-accountability-institute-problem-duplicate-voting.pdf

“Despite significant data acquisition obstacles, the reliability of acquired data, and an extremely conservative matching approach that sought only to identify two votes cast in the same legal name, GAI found 8,471 highly likely duplicate votes.”

MORE

....

“Using an extremely conservative method of matching names and exact birthdates with other unique identifying information, GAI found 7,271 highly likely cases of inter-state duplicate voting. We identified another
| The Problem of Duplicate Voting 2017 2

1,200 cases of likely intra-state duplicate voting. Each instance represents two votes with the same voter information.”

For you to suggest that only 31 “confirmed” cases means there is not a “potential” issue is ABSURD!

Are illegals rampantly abusing this - unlikely.....can they abuse this by voting as a dead person......probable.....

...

Sorry 36 votes

This article sums it all up pretty nicely the chances of illegal immigrants in California potentially being able to, and no provision or measure to prevent it:

themarketswork.com/2018/10/31/is-voter-fraud-real-a-look-at-californias-illegal-voter-registration-problem/

“On Jan. 1, 2015, California Assembly Bill 60 (AB-60) became law. AB-60 allows illegal immigrants in the United States to apply for a California driver’s license with the CA Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV). An estimated 605,000 undocumented residents received California driver’s licenses under AB-60 in the first year alone. The California DMV recently issued a press release stating that over one million licenses had been issued under AB-60 as of April 4, 2018.”

“State officials chose not to make non-citizen license holders searchable in the DMV database. This specific provision, by itself, opens the doors to illegal voter registration as the driver’s license becomes indistinguishable online.
On Oct. 10, 2015, California Governor Jerry Brown signed the Motor Voter Act that automatically registers to vote every eligible California citizen who goes to a DMV office to get a driver’s license or renew one.
California is one of 13 states, along with the District of Columbia, that have passed Automatic Voter Registration: Alaska, California, Colorado, District of Columbia, Georgia, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington.
Automatic Voter Registration makes voter registration “opt-out” instead of “opt-in”—eligible citizens who interact with government agencies, such as the DMV, are registered to vote or have their existing registration information updated, unless they affirmatively decline.”

“Legislation specifically exempts ineligible voters who end up being registered from any penalty.
Now, let’s examine the language contained in the California NVRA (National Voter Registration Act) Manual found on page 42:
VI. Voter Registration Cards where the voter indicates he or she is not a U.S. Citizen:
The VRC asks the applicant if he or she is a United States citizen. The voter may check either “Yes”, “No”, or not check either box.
If the voter indicates, by checking the “yes” box, that he or she is a U.S. citizen, the registration should be processed normally.
In other words, as stated by Charles Bell, Jr., a partner with California-based Bell, McAndrews & Hiltachk, LLP, a law firm that specializes in election law, “applicants can check a box affirming they are citizens, and this is not checked against any other government database such as federal immigration records.””

Credo, their end game is to give amnesty and let them be citizens and THEN they can legally vote. Try to look past just what is happening today and think about motive and consequences

Also it took all my willpower to not call you Fredo.

😂😂😂

Straw man argument. I'm not for open boarders, just easier legal immigration.

Why?

Why am I for easier legal immigration? Because then more people would enter legally, they would have legal documentation and records, pay all the same taxes as anyone else, and have protection from abusive employers.

How is it to our advantage to have more people enter the country?

NQW ... what a ridiculous assertion! We’d be glad to escort them back to the other side of the border, where they belong.

Stuck?
They find a way to send billions of dollars a year back to prop up the repressive regimes they “escaped” so the only ones “stuck” with anything are US taxpayers - all 52% of us.

If they send back billions of dollars, then they could fix the “sh*thole countries” they come from and end the immigration crisis. What’s your point.

NH ... there is no question that illegal aliens are sending billions back to their home countries, and most of that is consumed in the corruption of those shit holes!

Could it be that you’re attempting to put first world views onto third world countries when you suggest that the money returned to those shit holes could “fix” those countries?

Penalize and jail employers for knowingly hiring undocumented workers.

See how fast american business owners call for temp work visas.

Facts are optional for illegal immigrant enablers - they do send billions back to help prop up the regimes and then if we want to deport them they claim they dont know anyone, are unfamiliar with the language and customs so it means they must be sending the cash back directly to the repressive government they escaped.

Lately I've been saying immigration shouldn't be much harder than buying a gun.

A five year plan for financial reliability is a no go for Dems.
A guarantee they will accept public benefits for five years is far more acceptable - keep the dependents dependent, it’s the secret of lefty loyalty.

I believe that's 100% true.

😂😂😂

Actually, no. Leave the doors, but add more and larger doors, hire bouncers and security, buy the most advanced screening technology to identify everyone who enters, run a comprehensive background check on them while charging them rent and having them sign a contract consenting to 24/7 monitoring of their movements until they become permanent residents of your house.

Yeah, I think I’ll remove the doors...🏳️

Most illegal immigrants are those who overstay work visas, so no.

Yeah cause that is humane and effective lmao

Grant ... were all ears waiting dir your better proposal!

🦗🦗🦗

Sure keep listening to the MSM.

Negamu- that’s a lefty talking point- they don’t know how many illegals are here, there is no exit visa so how can they say with any authority that most overstay their visas?
It’s a guess, it’s a talking point that has been accepted as fact when there is no realistic way to find out - and a a a bonus - it’s racist to ask - that way lefties get to keep using the talking point.
Critical thinking demolishes lefty dogma - as always.

@think are you suggesting shooting immigrant families at the border is a proposal?

Nacho, it doesn’t matter if it is most, all, or just five illegal immigrants overstay there visa, that would still mean that fucking -shooting at everyone who tries to cross the boarder- wouldn’t chance the fact that there is illegal immigrants, therefore not solving the problem. That’s the point I’m making and you missed it.

Even if it is not most, all estimates say it is a very noticeable chunk: www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2006/05/22/modes-of-entry-for-the-unauthorized-migrant-population/


cis.org/Report/Analyzing-New-Visa-Overstay-Report


www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/cbp_-_fiscal_year_2018_entry_exit_overstay_report.pdf

Like a good lefty trained in verbal gymnastics we went from majority to a “noticeable chunk”.

Again how can you tell when we don’t have a clue how many are here 11-20 million and it is racist to find out?
Your sources can’t tell, the government can’t tell, nobody can so the idiotic lefty talking point is just that - idiotic.
You have no idea of the control population so to can’t claim majority or “noticeable chunk”.
Face facts.

Toad ... you’re question is moronic! When did I suggest that? Are you suggesting that you want illegal aliens to murder your family and all innocent citizens in your town?

You asked for a better proposal than a gun tower every 500 yds...I’m asking asking you if you consider that a real proposal.

Nacho do you always talk to other people like a total asshole?

Only when idiots call me a troll without checking facts, I call them as I see them.
Do you always run your mouth without checking facts?
Of course you do because you are a documented TDS patient.

The lefty go to response - you were mean - us lefties calling you Nazis, deplorable and irredeemable while clinging to guns and religion is okay - when you destroy our arguments with facts and logic it is unacceptable asshole behavior.
No problem I am used to it - block me like every other triggered lefty that refuses to debate facts and logic.

Nacho ... who is it that’s giving you grief?

Nacho, I do not judge people based on which side of the political compass you are. The only person who has done that is you, you hypocrite.

I am only a bit left leaning, and pretty damn libertarian. Stop trying to put me in a neat and labeled box while crying that people have done the same to you.

If the shoe fits you might as well wear it.
Your view is congruent with illegal immigrant enablers which are overwhelming left leaning.
The discussion is never about facts because illegal immigrant enablers refuse to engage and use verbal gymnastics when asked to verify - your comment is indicative - after I called out your false assertion that most illegals overstay their visa the first sentence of your response is “it doesn’t matter” and then you go on about nothing.
It is the normal response of lefties - facts don’t matter - so own it.

Secondly you asked if I always responded like an ass and I said not to the factually challenged.

Your issue not mine.
Don’t act like a stereotypical lefty if your don’t want or come across as one.

“Putting gun towers along the boarder wouldn’t solve the immigration issue because not all illegal immigrants cross the boarder on foot.”

“Fuckin’ leftie REEEEEE”

Hey lefty triggered moron - you are on the wrong thread - go call it out where it was posted - get your Mommy to help you get organized if she lets you out of the basement.

My bad - I am being a triggered lefty.

Dude who the fuck pissed in your wheaties? I have never dealt with someone so asinine and rude right from the start on this app, and that is saying a LOT.

I point out a flaw in the idea that gun towers on boarder will not solve the problem and you are talking to me like I spit on the American flag and called you a Nazi. I have done NOTHING to warrant this much aggression from you.

Now get off your damn high horse and have a fucking -discussion- with me or I will gladly take my leave from both reply threads.

You tried to pass off a lefty talking point about overstays as a fact.
I presented logic as to why it is not a fact - I do not support gun towers nor does anyone else.

You are upset your talking point was shown to be without merit and are upset.
That’s all.

I showed you three links from reliable sources that show that shows the estimate of illegal immigrants who came here by visa is high. I have seen estimates that are even higher.

But again, that wasn’t the point. It doesn’t matter if it’s most, half, all, or just five illegal immigrants who got here by visa, gun towers wouldn’t solve the problem.


That’s what I was trying to say, but you went off about you have such a Big Brain and pointing out that it’s a leftie talking point (like I care), putting me in a box with other lefties while bitching that you’ve been called a Nazi.

I don’t think I have a big brain but you ignore the obvious fallacy in the articles and your argument.

Nobody knows how many illegals are here - it is between 11-20 million and maybe higher and we have no exit visa requirements - so any “estimate” has a large deviation based on the population and that makes saying “most overstay their visas” is silly and a lefty talking point not based in reality.

Gun towers is a ridiculous idea not supported by the sane and it was a joke that was posted by someone.

But all we have to go by is estimates, and that goes with a lot of things. We cannot personally ask everyone in the country, so we ask enough people to get a general idea. All we have to work with is how many illegal immigrants get caught every year, and clearly it is a very noticeable amount.

Ask the Chinese how “barriers work.”

“Laws work”

Except for when they haven’t.

Ask San Diego how walls work - a marked massive decrease in the sector which makes the illegals move to the other sectors without walls.
Nice try though.

Any laws that have not worked is because they are not allowed to be enforced by guess who- Dems and activist judges.

*cough* war on drugs *cough*

Like speeding laws.
Don’t be a silly lefty.
We can name a ton of laws that are not enforced and it’s not the laws it’s the enforcement.

Nacho, do you support gun control?

Ask the Israelis

I don’t own a gun and as a legal immigrant I never grew up in culture where the second amendment was so personal for so many citizens.
I therefore respect the Constitution and accept the right to bear arms argument but recognize the destructive value of machine guns in the public - I base my ideology on facts and logic - I am also reluctantly pro choice to be consistent with my belief in personal freedom - the abject idiocy of labeling me a right winger is ridiculous and usually the result of losing a debate based in facts and logic.

If you hate left-wingers this much, how are you not a right-winger?

And I wanted to know if you believe that banning guns would solve gun violence.

No, banning guns is ridiculous and impracticable in this country.

I accept the laws and the constitution of the generous country I was lucky enough to legally emigrate to.

I don’t “hate” anyone - I call out hypocrisy and state my case with facts and logic which causes hysteria and denigration from those who disagree - as long as I am I called a Nazi for supporting legal immigration - I will continue to fight back with energy and conviction.

I too support -legal- immigration, and I have not once considered you to be or called you a Nazi. Stop being so god damn hostile.

Now tell me, how is it impractical?

How is what impractical?

Banning guns.

Banning guns would work as well as banning drugs, pre marital sex, speeding and lying.

I hate left wingers! I am not really a right winger, I just have common sense

Alright, so a moderate. I get it. I don’t like anyone who leans really far in any direction.

I personally don’t agree with that. Banning things that people really want just leads to it becoming popular on the black market.

I will tell you this about guns....if they want more be, come get them! I will give you mine, one round at a time. I am soooooooooo not joking about that!!!