Show of HandsShow of Hands

MrMilkdud November 3rd, 2019 5:31pm

“There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide.” -Ayn Rand

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CMChristian gone
11/04/19 9:03 am

Its like saying nazism and fascism are exactly the same, there's these little differences that make both ideologies different in their respective ways.

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MrMilkdud Pref pronouns Thou Thee
11/04/19 9:43 am

She points out the relevant differences between the two in her quote.

Brandon2018 Stocks Are Overvalued
11/03/19 6:40 pm

When you actually think about it, that quote gets a 💯

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RatBaby
11/03/19 4:10 pm

Slippery slope fallacy, and really? Ayn Rand is the expert on socialism? Should I start quoting Karl Marx on capitalism as if its fact now?

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MrMilkdud Pref pronouns Thou Thee
11/03/19 4:27 pm

Karl Marx never actually lived under communist rule. Ayn Rand did.
I’d say her practical experience is more valuable than his silly theories.

RatBaby
11/04/19 10:24 am

Karl Marx lived under capitalism, therefore his practical experience makes everything he says true right?

TomM
11/03/19 12:02 pm

Well said. I hadn't heard this one before.

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Zach21 California
11/03/19 11:51 am

💯 % agree

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Radon Parts Unknown
11/03/19 11:51 am

One thing I hate is I can never read The Fountainhead for the first time ever again.

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MrMilkdud Pref pronouns Thou Thee
11/03/19 1:22 pm

Rereading it right now! Or, listening to the audiobook, actually- in the car on a road trip with my wife and kids.

Radon Parts Unknown
11/03/19 1:31 pm

That's my favorite book. I still remember the first time reading it. Thinking about how many times in the book it would say exactly what I think. Especially from Gail.

I can't remember the exact quote but when he was on his yacht with Dominique talking about how we aren't small but actually big really hit me. I always hated when people tried to make us seem insignificant.
"When I see the sky, I think about air planes"
.

RatBaby
11/03/19 4:11 pm

Get better taste in literature. Either read theory or read allegory, even outside politics Ayn rands books are a hot mess.

MrMilkdud Pref pronouns Thou Thee
11/03/19 5:19 pm

I doubt you’ve read any of her books.

Radon Parts Unknown
11/03/19 8:49 pm

I can assure you Milkdud that rat is just like smart1

RatBaby
11/04/19 10:23 am

I've actually read Anthem, Fountainhead AND Atlas shrugged all the way through. My review: just read Anthem all her books are the same book and anthems the shortest.

RatBaby
11/04/19 10:24 am

And I doubt you know anything about good literature anyway.

RatBaby
11/04/19 10:30 am

I was actually pretty interested in the story of Atlas shrugged until the main lady crash landed in magic fantasy land where nobody had to be poor and Rand gave up on writing a book and just ranted about her bad politics for the rest of the novel. Which is how all her books go.

RatBaby
11/04/19 10:30 am

And like, listen, I get stories can have political meanings, and that people write political theory into books, but either write an allegorical story or write a book of political theory this half and half is bad.

MrMilkdud Pref pronouns Thou Thee
11/04/19 10:31 am

It’s easy to make things up on the internet.

I worked on Bernie Sander’s campaign.
I was one of Barack Obama’s chief aides.
I like Brussels sprouts.

See?

RatBaby
11/04/19 2:20 pm

Okay, so "you haven't read the books you can provide plot synopses and criticism of" is the hill you're gonna die on?

RatBaby
11/04/19 2:20 pm

Sounds like attacking the source instead of the content, doesn't it?

Radon Parts Unknown
11/04/19 2:51 pm

Rat, Milkdud and I were just having a conversation about a book we like. Then you just had to come in and tell us how bad it is. And we know that you don't like what she had to say anyways. So I doubt you read about 3000 pages by someone you don't agree with.

Also, you say it isn't good literature. So I question why the hell you would waste your time with another two books if you thought the first one you read was shit.
.

RatBaby
11/04/19 3:38 pm

Well, I read Anthem as an assignment in school, and it wasn't awful. Then I read Atlas shrugged because I heard so much about Rands writing. I will confess I never FINISHED fountainhead, I was reading it more as a "lol look at this" rather than in seriousness.

RatBaby
11/04/19 3:39 pm

And yeah, it's in desperate need of.both deciding who it's writing for and a braver copy editor.

Krosskaos Ohio
11/03/19 11:39 am

Mmm not really

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rons on top of the world MA
11/03/19 11:07 am

Communism wants to kill people who don’t agree.

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Okie1967 Defend the Police
11/03/19 10:45 am

Smart lady when it comes to economics concerns.

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smart1
11/03/19 10:37 am

Yes, Ayn Rand. Let’s not talk about her collecting social security.
Ayn Rand was not only a schlock novelist, she was also the progenitor of a sweeping “moral philosophy” that justifies the privilege of the wealthy and demonizes not only the slothful, undeserving poor but the lackluster middle-classes as well.

Her books provided wide-ranging parables of “parasites,” “looters” and “moochers” using the levers of government to steal the fruits of her heroes’ labor. In the real world, however, Rand herself received Social Security payments and Medicare benefits under the name of Ann O’Connor (her husband was Frank O’Connor).

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MrMilkdud Pref pronouns Thou Thee
11/03/19 10:44 am

Ad hominem criticisms of the speaker to deflect discussion away from the quote itself.

smart1
11/03/19 10:48 am

She was a fraud. That’s a fact.

MrMilkdud Pref pronouns Thou Thee
11/03/19 11:06 am

Doubling down on avoidance.

Radon Parts Unknown
11/03/19 11:52 am

You've never read one of her books in your entire life. You listened to someone talk about them that didn't like her.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/03/19 12:30 pm

This user is currently being ignored

ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/03/19 1:19 pm

“Ayn Rand was not only a schlock novelist, she was also the progenitor of a sweeping “moral philosophy” that justifies the privilege of the wealthy and demonizes not only the slothful, undeserving poor but the lackluster middle-classes as well.

Her books provided wide-ranging parables of “parasites,” “looters” and “moochers” using the levers of government to steal the fruits of her heroes’ labor. In the real world, however, Rand herself received Social Security payments and Medicare benefits under the name of Ann O’Connor (her husband was Frank O’Connor).”

I hate when stupid people try to pass off smart statements as their own......I thought what you typed up sounded a bit too smart for you.

Garner your own opinions - I will no longer take you seriously in debates.....

MrMilkdud Pref pronouns Thou Thee
11/03/19 1:20 pm

Oh my.
@smart1 that’s pretty sad.
From here on out I’ll dismiss everything you say as someone else’s opinion.

Radon Parts Unknown
11/03/19 1:25 pm

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I fucking called it!
Good catch, D.

ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/03/19 1:28 pm

Also in the article you didn’t cite:

“Social Security is not voluntary. Your participation is forced through payroll taxes, with no choice to opt out even if you think the program harmful to your interests. If you consider such forced “participation” unjust, as Rand does, the harm inflicted on you would only be compounded if your announcement of the program’s injustice precludes you from collecting Social Security.”

What is wrong with accepting payments from something your forced to pay into? It’s like sayin - nah - I don’t want my money back....

ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/03/19 1:30 pm

I WANT to opt out, because I have 0 confidence that I will get a dime from it when I retire.

smart1
11/03/19 1:37 pm

Well that worked. You had to actually do some research. And BTW I never passed off the Snopes words as my own. Glad you enjoyed learning something.

Radon Parts Unknown
11/03/19 1:40 pm

You would have saved some grace with me if you just owned up to it. But I guess that's just too much for your ego.

qmastrangelo back again one day
11/03/19 1:41 pm

Actually, copying something word for word and not putting it in quotations or indicating that it’s not originally from you is absolutely passing it off as your own. That’s literally the textbook definition of plagiarism.

Nice try, though.

ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/03/19 1:44 pm

“Well that worked. You had to actually do some research.”

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/03/19 1:45 pm

You make it sound like your grand plan that whole time. Makes me wonder how many other times you have pulled this.......

Also you could have saved face by saying - yeah, my bad. He’ll even saying, oh crap I forgot the quotes!! Would have been a better response.

🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/03/19 2:32 pm

This user is currently being ignored

Talren Positivist
11/03/19 3:57 pm

“Nice plagiarism you pulled their smart1!”

Nobody is publishing a formal paper here. There’s no such thing as plagiarism in an informal debate on an online forum. All that matters is the soundness of the arguments.

I do agree, though, that if you’re going to use someone else’s argument, you should either put it in your own words or put it in quotes and cite it as a source, just as a courtesy.

.

ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/03/19 4:19 pm

plagiarism
[ˈplājəˌrizəm]
NOUN
the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.

Yes, passing off comments as your own is plagiarism. It’s ignorant, misleading, and ruins any credibility you hoped to achieve by writing “your” rebuttal.

...

ConservativeD Libertarian in disguise
11/03/19 4:23 pm

Sorry I forgot to put quotes around the definition I took from Siri. Please forgive my mistake of potential plagiarism. Siri gets all the credit for the definition of what plagiarism is.

..

MrMilkdud Pref pronouns Thou Thee
11/03/19 5:20 pm

It’s ok. You weren’t trying to publish a major paper, right? 🙄

What a dumb argument, @talren. Typical liberal attempt to redefine terms.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/03/19 5:27 pm

This user is currently being ignored

MrMilkdud Pref pronouns Thou Thee
11/03/19 5:32 pm

Don’t forget

Selfish: complaining about taxes
Uncaring: saying that poor people should get better jobs or spend their money more wisely
Heartless: suggesting adoption instead of abortion
Marriage: any time two or more people want to force someone to bake them a cake.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
11/03/19 5:34 pm

This user is currently being ignored