Show of Hands

She points out the relevant differences between the two in her quote.

Karl Marx never actually lived under communist rule. Ayn Rand did.
I’d say her practical experience is more valuable than his silly theories.

Karl Marx lived under capitalism, therefore his practical experience makes everything he says true right?

Rereading it right now! Or, listening to the audiobook, actually- in the car on a road trip with my wife and kids.

That's my favorite book. I still remember the first time reading it. Thinking about how many times in the book it would say exactly what I think. Especially from Gail.

I can't remember the exact quote but when he was on his yacht with Dominique talking about how we aren't small but actually big really hit me. I always hated when people tried to make us seem insignificant.
"When I see the sky, I think about air planes"
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Get better taste in literature. Either read theory or read allegory, even outside politics Ayn rands books are a hot mess.

I doubt you’ve read any of her books.

I can assure you Milkdud that rat is just like smart1

I've actually read Anthem, Fountainhead AND Atlas shrugged all the way through. My review: just read Anthem all her books are the same book and anthems the shortest.

And I doubt you know anything about good literature anyway.

I was actually pretty interested in the story of Atlas shrugged until the main lady crash landed in magic fantasy land where nobody had to be poor and Rand gave up on writing a book and just ranted about her bad politics for the rest of the novel. Which is how all her books go.

And like, listen, I get stories can have political meanings, and that people write political theory into books, but either write an allegorical story or write a book of political theory this half and half is bad.

It’s easy to make things up on the internet.

I worked on Bernie Sander’s campaign.
I was one of Barack Obama’s chief aides.
I like Brussels sprouts.

See?

Okay, so "you haven't read the books you can provide plot synopses and criticism of" is the hill you're gonna die on?

Sounds like attacking the source instead of the content, doesn't it?

Rat, Milkdud and I were just having a conversation about a book we like. Then you just had to come in and tell us how bad it is. And we know that you don't like what she had to say anyways. So I doubt you read about 3000 pages by someone you don't agree with.

Also, you say it isn't good literature. So I question why the hell you would waste your time with another two books if you thought the first one you read was shit.
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Well, I read Anthem as an assignment in school, and it wasn't awful. Then I read Atlas shrugged because I heard so much about Rands writing. I will confess I never FINISHED fountainhead, I was reading it more as a "lol look at this" rather than in seriousness.

And yeah, it's in desperate need of.both deciding who it's writing for and a braver copy editor.

Ad hominem criticisms of the speaker to deflect discussion away from the quote itself.

She was a fraud. That’s a fact.

Doubling down on avoidance.

Kanya West is the new Rand!

You've never read one of her books in your entire life. You listened to someone talk about them that didn't like her.

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Nice plagiarism you pulled their smart1!


www.snopes.com/fact-check/ayn-rand-social-security/

“Ayn Rand was not only a schlock novelist, she was also the progenitor of a sweeping “moral philosophy” that justifies the privilege of the wealthy and demonizes not only the slothful, undeserving poor but the lackluster middle-classes as well.

Her books provided wide-ranging parables of “parasites,” “looters” and “moochers” using the levers of government to steal the fruits of her heroes’ labor. In the real world, however, Rand herself received Social Security payments and Medicare benefits under the name of Ann O’Connor (her husband was Frank O’Connor).”

I hate when stupid people try to pass off smart statements as their own......I thought what you typed up sounded a bit too smart for you.

Garner your own opinions - I will no longer take you seriously in debates.....

Oh my.
@smart1 that’s pretty sad.
From here on out I’ll dismiss everything you say as someone else’s opinion.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I fucking called it!
Good catch, D.

Also in the article you didn’t cite:

“Social Security is not voluntary. Your participation is forced through payroll taxes, with no choice to opt out even if you think the program harmful to your interests. If you consider such forced “participation” unjust, as Rand does, the harm inflicted on you would only be compounded if your announcement of the program’s injustice precludes you from collecting Social Security.”

What is wrong with accepting payments from something your forced to pay into? It’s like sayin - nah - I don’t want my money back....

I WANT to opt out, because I have 0 confidence that I will get a dime from it when I retire.

Well that worked. You had to actually do some research. And BTW I never passed off the Snopes words as my own. Glad you enjoyed learning something.

You would have saved some grace with me if you just owned up to it. But I guess that's just too much for your ego.

Actually, copying something word for word and not putting it in quotations or indicating that it’s not originally from you is absolutely passing it off as your own. That’s literally the textbook definition of plagiarism.

Nice try, though.

“Well that worked. You had to actually do some research.”

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

You make it sound like your grand plan that whole time. Makes me wonder how many other times you have pulled this.......

Also you could have saved face by saying - yeah, my bad. He’ll even saying, oh crap I forgot the quotes!! Would have been a better response.

🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

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“Nice plagiarism you pulled their smart1!”

Nobody is publishing a formal paper here. There’s no such thing as plagiarism in an informal debate on an online forum. All that matters is the soundness of the arguments.

I do agree, though, that if you’re going to use someone else’s argument, you should either put it in your own words or put it in quotes and cite it as a source, just as a courtesy.

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plagiarism
[ˈplājəˌrizəm]
NOUN
the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.

Yes, passing off comments as your own is plagiarism. It’s ignorant, misleading, and ruins any credibility you hoped to achieve by writing “your” rebuttal.

...

Sorry I forgot to put quotes around the definition I took from Siri. Please forgive my mistake of potential plagiarism. Siri gets all the credit for the definition of what plagiarism is.

..

It’s ok. You weren’t trying to publish a major paper, right? 🙄

What a dumb argument, @talren. Typical liberal attempt to redefine terms.

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Don’t forget

Selfish: complaining about taxes
Uncaring: saying that poor people should get better jobs or spend their money more wisely
Heartless: suggesting adoption instead of abortion
Marriage: any time two or more people want to force someone to bake them a cake.

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