Show of HandsShow of Hands

DGroot February 8th, 2019 6:03pm

Can you name anything that the Democrats have moved toward the center on in the last 15 years?

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02/09/19 9:04 am

Guns, healthcare, war in the middle east, LGBTQ rights, marijuana, criminal justice

Both parties were so far right on these issues and more that a move to the left is a move closer to center.

Krystina Let Freedom Reign
02/09/19 12:19 am

They’ve gone waaaaay further left over the years.

PamGH Washington
02/08/19 5:07 pm

Many are more hawkish than dems of the past. Dunno if that is a good or a bad thing though.

JudicialJedi321 This is How Liberty Dies
02/08/19 4:38 pm

They are more insane than ever before.
Extremism has become mainstream in the democrat party.

TheRightHook PureBluntForceTrauma
02/08/19 2:43 pm

Honestly they've moved much farther left.

02/08/19 2:19 pm

Not really, society in America continually moves to the left. Conservatives become more liberal and liberals become more liberal. I guess what "Make America Great Again" means is to have a sudden shift to the right, which obviously didn't happen.

02/08/19 1:44 pm

No. They have all moved much further left

Odysseus We All Need A Fantasy
02/08/19 1:07 pm

The Labor Movement and Union rights.

Squidboy Snarkapottamus
02/08/19 12:05 pm

Fiscal responsibility

PhxLibertarian Republic of Dave
02/08/19 12:54 pm

I just blew soda out of my nose laughing so hard at that one. Next you are going to be telling me Warren really is native american.

Squidboy Snarkapottamus
02/08/19 1:31 pm

You laugh....but over the last 20 years...deficits have decreased under Democrat’s and increased under republicans.

02/08/19 3:00 pm

Lmfao, take a look at the cost of the green new deal and explain to me how that is in any way fiscally responsible.

02/08/19 3:39 pm

Deficits are based on budget which can be manipulated to increase or lower deficit. The cost of an entitlement does not change, just the amount budgeted for. With this in mind it’s the rate of increased national debt that is more of a true measure of financial health.

htcbump Florida
02/08/19 10:24 pm

But debt has gone thru the roof under Dems. Deficit are not as meaningful, a budgetary game. the debt is real.

Squidboy Snarkapottamus
02/08/19 10:50 pm

The national debt has increased under every president for the last 100 years. The only president in my lifetime to run a surplus was Clinton. Obama decreased the deficit. Trump has blown up the deficit. Reagan increased the national debt by a greater percent than any potus in history. Those are all facts. Anything else is statistical arise.

PhxLibertarian Republic of Dave
02/09/19 8:57 am

You say regan increased it more by % but the base number was a fraction of the size. That isnt a valid way of measuring fiscal responsibility.

You are mistaken about Clinton, though it is a common mistake and can be found on many, many websites. The fact is that Clinton predicted a surplus but it didnt actually happen. The last true surplus was in the 60s I believe.

Also, the way the change in deficit is measured in projections, which is what most of this is based on is garbage. For instance, Bush 1 was required to produce a 10 year estimate each year of his presidency. Clinton took those projections which included costs related to continuing desert storm and reduced them. This isnt necessarily a true reduction relative to prior peace time (but may have been, I honestly dont know).

Others make estimates too and they have agendas. If you look at actual debt change, Obama added the most in history. The arguement against trump is based on projections, some assuming recession

02/09/19 1:21 pm

Right on point PhxL. The other thing that gets over looked is GDP and actual tax income the gvmnt is receiving. We are at record levels on both right now. With this in mind the future looks great as long as the dem’s socialist agenda stays in check.

Squidboy Snarkapottamus
02/09/19 1:23 pm

You are misrepresenting numbers and I’m not going to argue with you. But I will point out a few things. Obama in 8 years added more $ (not adjusted for inflation) than any potus in’s what he inherited. Reagan grew the debt at a higher %. Obama reduced the annual deficit. So far....Trump has increased it. If Trump were to last for 8 years (doubtful) he will easily eclipse Obama’s share of the debt.

PhxLibertarian Republic of Dave
02/09/19 5:17 pm

Squid, I love how you say you wont argue then argue.

You cant compare war time under Bush 2 to Obama years. The heavy lifting was already done. Of course the deficit went down. When regan increased by a significant % the base number was something like 3 trillion. If you want to do apples to apples you adjust for inflation and use the same base year. You lose that math by a very, very long way.

You are basically staking your whole claim on Bush war years to Obama years, and a projection of the trump shortfall prepared by liberals. Not exactly a strong arguement. A reasonably intelligent 6th grade could help you with the flaws.

Squidboy Snarkapottamus
02/09/19 6:23 pm

To stick to the premise of the question & my statement...let’s compare Obama’s last year in office vs. Trump’s first full year with a full GOP Congress. In 2016 the Fed ran a $585 billion deficit. In 2018....the deficit is estimated at $833 billion.

02/09/19 11:34 pm

Again you miss the debt to GDP issue. We had the largest debt to GDP increase under Obama. Under trump the ratio has been virtually flat. So while the debt is still going up our ability to pay on it has been stabilizing.

Squidboy Snarkapottamus
02/10/19 7:00 am

2016 deficit to gdp 3.1%. 2018 deficit to gdp 4%.

Think Lovin Life
02/10/19 2:00 pm

Squid ... you know that you are lying. MrO doubled the debt. Do you believe that by the end of MrT’s second term that the debt will be $40T?

Of course it won’t!

Squidboy Snarkapottamus
02/10/19 2:29 pm

Deficit & debt are different things. Thanks for trying though.

PhxLibertarian Republic of Dave
02/10/19 6:12 pm

Squid, you do understand the relationship between debt and deficit dont you? The movement in the debt shows that your statements about deficit are blatantly false. You can use the debt to fact check claims about the deficet.

Squidboy Snarkapottamus
02/10/19 6:45 pm

I shared think above that has the factual annual deficit going back decades. Debt is cumulative of all those deficits. My point remains.....Obama decreased the annual far Trump has increased it.

PhxLibertarian Republic of Dave
02/10/19 6:51 pm

That can't be the case when the debt doubled under obama... do you see the problem? Obama added as much debt as all previous presidents combined. Therefore he cant have done less than Bush or any president that came before him.

Again, I am going to suggest you are using projected deficits which are prepared by the president's party and are always overly optimistic (for both parties). This is why looking at the true change in debt, not partisan projections, is the best way to gauge performance.

Using this metric, Obama is the worst there has ever been, and trump is on track to add far less debt than Obama, but far too much to be acceptable IMHO.