Show of HandsShow of Hands

voc February 3rd, 2019 5:17pm

According to a user, God has predetermined our thoughts and actions, thereby eliminating free will. If thereโ€™s no free will and no one has a choice in their actions and thoughts, would anyone go to hell?

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TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
02/03/19 10:39 pm

But there IS free will.

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HBNY this space for rent
02/03/19 10:15 pm

No. They would not.

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Zod Above Pugetropolis
02/03/19 7:19 pm

How would anyone escape it, if the "righteous path" was one they just followed without having chosen it? Hosed either way, by the looks of it.

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KudosToYou California
02/03/19 6:56 pm

All-knowing, all-powerful God is not omnibenevolent.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
02/03/19 6:41 pm

๐Ÿ’  voc asked:
02/03/2019
According to a user, God has predetermined our thoughts and actions, thereby eliminating free will. If there’s no free will and no one has a choice in their actions and thoughts, would anyone go to hell?

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
02/03/19 6:42 pm

This is why I don’t believe in predestination, Voc. If God was just going to decide who was going to be saved and who wasn’t, there would have been NO NEED for Jesus to have died on the cross to save us from our sins, or for him to rise from the dead, to allow us to spend eternity in Heaven, instead of in Hell.

The Bible CLEARLY states numerous times that we have free will, that everyone has to decide for themselves whether to accept Jesus or not, etc.

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MrsCrayonWax
02/03/19 12:55 pm

I’m sue someone has some spin for all these scenarios since none of these denominations can agree.

Xemanis Lawful Good
02/05/19 9:55 am

Whoa, these people are deluded.

Xemanis Lawful Good
02/05/19 9:57 am

I was expecting some stupid thing about mercy and how everyone is saved but instead I got pretty much what I was thinking: it's actually because the god of the bible is a psychopath

John1 Florida
02/03/19 12:53 pm

I think the whole point of predestination is that God gives us free will, but being all knowing, He knows what we are going to do before we do it. Nothing we do is going to surprise God.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
02/03/19 6:39 pm

The way I understand it, that’s FOREKNOWLEDGE, which is different from predestination, that says that God chooses whom to save.

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theNobamist Silicon Valley
02/03/19 12:40 pm

God gave Man choice. Genesis 1 : Man bit the forsaken apple.

xxxceo Nationalist
02/03/19 12:19 pm

Hey The Voc, what do you use in your beard (besides snow)? I’m doing the shadow thing and was told that I need to make it softer. Plus I guess making it look better wouldn’t hurt either. I’m using Geo F Trumper’s skin food at the moment, but it’s not really for that I don’t think. Anyway, figured I’d ask the expert.

xxxceo Nationalist
02/03/19 12:58 pm

I have a cupboard full like all good Italians ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น

voc Hey
02/03/19 1:16 pm

I use Billy Jealousy brand products. Devils Delight oil, and Tinman beard wax. You can get them at Ulta beauty.

I’ve tried several. There’s a lot of good ones out there, but these are my favs. They smell good and work great.

xxxceo Nationalist
02/03/19 1:18 pm

Ultra beauty...that’s me.
Thanks dude.

xxxceo Nationalist
02/03/19 1:39 pm

Right on, thank you.

ServantOfGod Obey God
02/03/19 10:54 am

Yes, the wicked will still go to hell because God creates many people for the express purpose of destroying them and sending them to eternal torment to magnify His glorify. These people are called “vessels of wrath fitted to destruction” and they were doomed to hell the moment they were conceived. Why does God do this? Before He can. Because He’s the King of Eternity and He does as He pleases. If you don’t like it too bad.

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ServantOfGod Obey God
02/03/19 10:54 am

“You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?”
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,” (Romans 9:19-23).

ServantOfGod Obey God
02/03/19 10:55 am

Last part got cut off:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,” (Romans 9:19-23).
...
...

political Georgia
02/03/19 11:28 am

Very well explained - what people don’t understand is that we are all deserving of Hell. There is no injustice by God. There is only a just punishment or mercy. All is done by His sovereign judgment.

ServantOfGod Obey God
02/03/19 11:40 am

Exactly!
God is just in everything He does because He is the creator and we are merely His handiwork. He sets the rules and we are to obey them without question. I like to explain this to my daughters using their Barbie dolls. I ask them “would it make sense for that Barbie doll, after you’ve dressed her, to suddenly exclaim ‘why did you dress me this way?!’”. Of course not. The Barbie dolls were created for the express purpose of being playthings for young girls, just as we are created for the sole purpose of serving God.
It’s good to finally see someone on this app who understands the word of God. WAY too many lukewarm or straight-up freezing Christians on here.

political Georgia
02/03/19 11:46 am

Great illustration. Now, tell your daughters to try to get their Barbie dolls to “accept” a gift.

ServantOfGod Obey God
02/03/19 11:51 am

That I will ๐Ÿ˜‚

Talren Solidarity Forever
02/03/19 10:54 am

This poll just reaffirms for me that the concept of hell is pure retribution and makes no attempt to uphold real justice. The absence of “free will” only poses a problem for retributive punishment — after all, how can punishing a wrongdoer be giving them what they “deserve” if they never chose to do wrong and are not accountable for their own actions? On the other hand, the other 4 forms of punishment, deterrence, incapacitation, rehabilitation, and restitution (or the way I see it, the 4 legitimate forms of punishment), still make just as much sense even if the person being punished did not freely “choose” to behave badly in a libertarian sense.

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Tommy1776 Midwest
02/03/19 10:32 am

If God determined and controlled our thoughts and actions, man would never sin against God. So I think that's a false premise, God doesn't really control our thoughts and actions. But he does KNOW what well choose to do. He knows where well end up, and what decisions we'll make, but I don't think he CONTROLS our decision making/thoughts in the conventional sense. He may intervene from time to time with subtle suggestions to keep us on the right path, but he doesn't entirely control our thoughts and actions

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political Georgia
02/03/19 10:30 am

I would like to know who this user is. I’m a Calvinist, and we emphasize that what is described here is not what we Belief at all

voc Hey
02/03/19 10:34 am

I can’t reveal my sources.

voc Hey
02/03/19 10:35 am

But you can find your answer in the soh question about saving and spending

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
02/03/19 10:35 am

It was Russian hackers

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
02/03/19 10:36 am

Pretty sure servant of god is thatguy2’s alt

voc Hey
02/03/19 10:37 am

Whoever he is, he’s really fucked in the head.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
02/03/19 10:39 am

He’s in the right place then

political Georgia
02/03/19 11:26 am

I responded in the thread. He has a lot of stuff right. I clarified his point on actions that seemed to be the point of confusion.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
02/03/19 11:33 am

“He has a lot of stuff right”

Ohhhhh

political Georgia
02/03/19 11:35 am

Yeah! He did a good job on explaining God’s sovereignty. I just corrected his post that relates to sanctification but not a bad job at all

Kay41 the Midwest
02/03/19 10:28 am

Yeah, just not buying that user's theory.

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TierasPet
02/03/19 1:02 pm

Me either and I'm wondering if it's the same person who said God already determined who would go to heaven and who goes to hell.

Kay41 the Midwest
02/03/19 1:14 pm

I think it is. You can see him up above.

TierasPet
02/03/19 1:23 pm

Thanks. I should have looked first.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
02/03/19 10:22 am

If there was free will, wouldn’t everyone have your beard?

Checkmate atheists

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voc Hey
02/03/19 10:29 am

Damn right