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GrandmaALiCE January 31st, 2019 8:21pm

Inspired by @RussianThunder poll: Yesterday and today, the wind chill temperatures were in the minus 20’s. (Yes, that’s minus!) πŸ’¨ snow ❄️ Most schools were closed. Are school closings justified under those weather conditions?

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grondini Mainer in NC
02/03/19 6:06 am

When I lived in Maine, it got down to -20F. They only closed the schools because the busses wouldn't start. 😁

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lj74
02/01/19 10:48 am

Yes. Transpiration and travel to and from schools can be seriously dangerous under those temps

peterseb Idaho
01/31/19 8:11 pm

My school, growing up, didn't close until the air temperature was -25 or colder. We always had to go outside for recess unless the air temperature was 0 or colder. The reason they canceled school at -25 was because at that temperature the diesel fuel in the buses would gel up and they wouldn't run.

Zod Above Pugetropolis
01/31/19 3:32 pm

In areas where those conditions are not unheard of, such as in the mountain states or upper Midwest, I'd say no. Assuming, of course, that the roads could be kept passable. Closings for cold should be similar to closings for extreme heat - by district or even specific school, based on that particular facility's ability to accommodate them. Poorly insulated older buildings may need to be closed, while a more modern building should not need to be. So my answer is no, broadly, but yes in the cases where closing them is actually necessary.

GrandmaALiCE
01/31/19 4:36 pm

Zod, you considered road conditions (valid) and the condition of school buildings (also a good point). But, what about children who walk to school or have to wait outside for a bus?

Zod Above Pugetropolis
01/31/19 4:51 pm

They shouldn’t have too much trouble waiting for the bus, as the temperature isn’t that extreme without the wind chill, and shelter from the wind is likely available near the stop. There is no windchill unless you are in the wind, it doesn’t make the air or any surfaces "colder". Walking could be a problem, and I'd expect parents to manage that just as they would if there were severe thunderstorms raging during that time, or even, for the youngest kids, if there were torrential rains falling. No matter the conditions, if it is possible for properly dressed people to be out in it, it is possible for properly dressed and supervised kids to get to school in it.

GrandmaALiCE
01/31/19 5:23 pm

School bus stops do not typically have shelters.

You may be thinking of actual physical bus stops that are typically put up for public transportation. Those bus stops have a sign and a bench and usually, an enclosure.

School “bus stops” are typically just a street corner location.

@4jc As a former school bus driver, please correct me, if I am mistaken. But, the above is what I’ve always observed.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
01/31/19 5:36 pm

Yes, you’re correct, GA. The only place I’ve EVER seen a small shelter for school kids is on an Army base. And that was just a roof and plexiglass sides, with a bench to sit on, and wasn’t at all the stops.

Can someone tell me whose poll this is and what is the question? Thanks!

When I was in school, we lived on a dirt road and I had to walk about a mile to the school bus stop because the school bus couldn’t come out there, as there was no place to turn around. It was MISERABLE on cold days, and we live in AL! I can’t imagine doing that in the north, if that’s what this poll is about!

Of course, we’re softer than kids of the past. They used to walk uphill both ways in the snow! πŸ€£πŸ˜‚πŸ€£

But seriously, my mom had to walk to school and they were so poor that she stuffed cardboard in her shoes to cover the holes in the soles.

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GrandmaALiCE
01/31/19 5:38 pm

4jc, it’s my poll and I copied the question at the bottom.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
01/31/19 5:44 pm

Thanks! I didn’t think to look because so few people do this for us!

Well, here in AL, schools are closed if there is ice on the road, or even a chance that the snow will stick. Most of the time, the ground is too warm for the snow to stick. But we’re not equipped for ANY ice or snow. So I think the first answer should be that it depends on how your city is prepared for it. Is it safe to drive in, etc?

And no, I don’t think kids should be standing at school bus stops in those conditions! That can cause hypothermia and death! I can’t imagine living in those kinds of conditions, myself!

I’ve had a REALLY rough week (medically & physically) because our temps went down to the 40’s and the 20’s at night. But we’re back up to the 70’s by Tuesday! πŸ˜‚πŸ€£πŸ˜‚πŸ€£ So I’m REALLY looking forward to that.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
01/31/19 5:47 pm

Zod, I just saw that you said something about schools closing for extreme heat. Is that a thing in the north? We have over 100 degree weather, with 100% humidity, and school has NEVER closed for this.

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Abanna
01/31/19 5:51 pm

Not that I know of. We’ve experienced similar weather in spring/summer of Minnesota, but school and activities have never been closed because of it.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
01/31/19 6:42 pm

I just posted a pic poll with an overturned school bus that tells how I feel about school closings in these situations. I tagged you into it, GA, and Zod.

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GrandmaALiCE
01/31/19 7:12 pm

Thanks for the tag. I replied in that poll.

School closings due to extreme heat would be extremely rare where I live. I can’t remember any offhand, but I wouldn’t totally rule it out.

Most of our schools are not air conditioned. With the school year starting in August, it’s *possible* to have some very hot days at the beginning of the school year. Are schools air conditioned in Alabama?

Ohio is a lot more likely to have dangerously cold days in winter than dangerously hot days in August.

You said your temps have gone down to the 20’s at night. I’ll be happy when ours go UP to the 20’s at night! Right now, my outside thermometer reads 5 degrees.

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Zod Above Pugetropolis
01/31/19 7:12 pm

I rode the bus to school as a kid. I didn’t mean a shelter like at some city bus stops, I meant anything to get out of the wind. Tree, bush, car, house, garbage can, other kids, etc.

Zod Above Pugetropolis
01/31/19 7:15 pm

In Kansas they would close school, or more commonly have an early dismissal, on some of the hottest days. It doesn’t happen here, that I know of, and it never used to when I was a kid - but back then we didn’t have school at all in August or more than a few days into June.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
01/31/19 8:15 pm

Yes, schools are air conditioned here, but most school buses are NOT. I once put a thermometer inside my bus in the heat and it was 120 degrees inside the bus BEFORE turning on the engine and adding the body heat of 40-70 students!

I used to have to come home and PEEL my clothes off my body....that was how much I sweated on the route. It’s really quite dangerous, imho.

I can’t understand why the state of AL starts at the first of August and goes through the end of May, while many states up north do not. Imho, states up north should go during the summer, when there is less chance to being out due to weather (and it doesn’t cost as much to heat) and states in the south should go during the winter (when it costs less to air condition).

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
01/31/19 8:15 pm

Oh, and that temp inside the bus was with all the windows down all day, sitting in the shade. If the windows had been up, it would’ve been worse.

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GrandmaALiCE
01/31/19 8:38 pm

That bus heat you described is ridiculous! Didn’t some kids get sick from it? I don’t see how the school district could think that’s acceptable.

I just looked up the school year of the school my grandsons graduated from. It goes August 20 through June 5. So, not too different from what you described.

In terms of safety, your suggestion of having our school during the summer makes sense. But, there are logistical issues.

It would mess up vacation plans, for one thing. Another thing, summer camps are just that ... in the summer. Also, kids look forward to being able to go swimming, play outside, etc. I just don’t think it’s workable.

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HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
02/01/19 12:05 am

I grew up in a Northern clime. I walked about a mile to school in every type of weather including deep subzero. It was an adventure. I do not recall walking past any froze bodies.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
02/01/19 1:11 pm

Yes, the heat does get to some kids, but I think it’s even more dangerous for the driver. The kids are sitting by a row of open windows. But the driver is sitting in front of or even on top of the engine (if it’s a flat nose bus). The heat just emanates up in waves, right into your face. The driver usually has a fan, but it just feels like you’re in a convection oven, blowing the hot air all over you. You don’t have the advantage of sitting behind all the open windows!

It’s a lot hotter here on August 4 than it is on August 20th, so that makes it that much worse for us. It’s the hottest part of the summer.

Yeah, I didn’t mean I thought that schools would ever go to that....we like our summer vacations, etc. as well. But I would rather take a vacation with my family in the spring or fall, when it’s not so hot (unless we’re going to the lake or beach).

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
02/01/19 1:12 pm

Hammer, I just read that something like 13 people have died in this cold already. I’m so glad it doesn’t get that cold here.

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GrandmaALiCE
02/01/19 5:55 pm

And here’s an interesting counter opinion from a Cleveland columnist. Interestingly, this backs up the opinion that Zod expressed at the beginning of this thread.

www.cleveland.com/opinion/2019/01/polar-vortex-pushback-we-live-in-ohio-it-snows-it-gets-cold-whats-the-big-deal-ted-diadiun.html

I don’t necessarily agree with all of it, but I thought it interesting enough to share.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
02/01/19 7:03 pm

Thanks, GA! That DOES put another light on the situation, and I totally agree with we’re getting softer with each generation. It’s one reason that adults don’t want to grow up until they’re in their 30’s now, and employers are actually saying they’re unemployable!

And the difference is that I’m from AL, and we’re not used to that kind of cold, so we don’t understand y’all being ok with it.....as we’re not equipped for it....no snow plows, no chains on tires, no salt on the roads, not big coats, etc.

When we lived in Baton Rogue, we rarely even wore sweaters!

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HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
02/01/19 8:06 pm

Really sad that peeps die due to weather extremes. Preparation and safe travel is critical.

katerina13 where I should be
02/06/19 2:51 am

Funny story about buses in hot, humid weather. My Dad drove a bus for a couple of years after he retired for medical insurance. One day, it was about 98’, and the bus broke down. The kids have to stay on the bus, and they were whining. My Dad’s 80 years old and has never tolerated whining well at all. I can attest to this. He asked one of the kids (they were rich and lived on the golf course), “Does you golf cart have air conditioning?” The kid answered, “No, but Kevin’s does!” My Dad was speechless.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
02/06/19 8:03 am

HaHa! Thanks for sharing! I’m not big on whining kids either. You gotta nip that in the bud when they’re TODDLERS! Lol

katerina13 where I should be
02/06/19 8:28 am

These were all extremely spoiled brats!

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
02/06/19 8:42 am

My problem is that I want kids to act the way I expected my kids to act....and most of them rarely do. About the only kids I’ve seen that are the exception are homeschooled kids...very respectful and able to converse with people of all ages!

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GrandmaALiCE
02/06/19 8:57 am

Hers’s another big exception ... Kids at Catholic schools are typically well-behaved.

Some of you know that I volunteer at a Holocaust education program at my synagogue. We get students on school field trips from all over northeastern Ohio. We have noticed over and over again, the BIG difference between public school groups and Catholic school groups.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
02/06/19 9:21 am

Yes, I would agree....and go so far as to say most Christian school kids. But I’ve seen a difference even between Christian school kids and homeschooled kids. I think a lot of that goes to the fact that homeschooled kids are influenced more by their parents and other adults, and spend the day interacting with people of all ages out in public, whereas public and even private schooled kids spend most of their day with their own peer groups and more influenced by them.

Do y’all get any homeschooled groups, GA?

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
02/06/19 9:22 am

And of course, I think a BIG part of this is that Christian and Catholic schools are teaching their kids Biblical principles, as are the majority of homeschooled kids I’ve interacted with, although more and more non religious parents are homeschooling now.

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GrandmaALiCE
02/06/19 9:37 am

We’ve never had a home schooled group, as long as I’ve been involved. That’s a great idea, though!

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
02/06/19 9:44 am

I think you all should reach out to them. I think it would be a great educational experience, and they would be very thankful to be included. A lot of places don’t think about homeschooled groups or reach out to them.

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GrandmaALiCE
02/06/19 10:48 am

The director who has been running the program for many years is retiring at the end of this school year. They are in the process of looking for a new director.

Next year, if the new director appears receptive to my suggestions, I may propose that idea. It sounds like a good idea!

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
02/06/19 10:56 am

GREAT! I’d love to hear the results of that, and what you think about any groups that come. We didn’t homeschool our first two kids at all, and only started homeschooling when our 2nd two were in 9th and 3rd grade, because of medical problems they were having, and a lack of support from the school sytem.

We had been involved in public schools, as school bus drivers, most of our adult lives, besides having 4 kids in school, and being public schooled, ourselves. So I was SHOCKED when I saw the difference in how homeschooled kids acted at the first homeschool convention I went to. Small kids were interacting with adults who would ask questions about the products that families were selling at their booths, and were VERY informed, polite, and helpful.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
02/06/19 10:56 am

I never saw a single homeschooled kid that acting bratty or disrespectful, the several years that we homeschooled.

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HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
02/06/19 7:46 pm

Hey hey.
How about Charter School Kids? They have closer supervision, smaller class size, and are "selected" by the student/parents. I have observed that produces a student body with generally strong social skills.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
02/06/19 8:46 pm

All charter schools are not equal. For instance, my kids went to a charter school in Baton Rouge that you had to make good grades and win a lottery to get into. But the class sizes weren’t smaller, the kids didn’t act better, and the school was surrounded by a fence with razor wire and had a doorbell and intercom to gain admittance because it was in such a bad area of town.

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HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
02/07/19 6:59 am

Yikes.
The school I chaired was in a dismal neighborhood. Thoe kids were from low income homes. We kept classes to 19 students or less. The results were very encouraging.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
02/07/19 7:31 am

You hear all the time about how bad AL schools are. We were SO glad to get back to AL. I’ve NEVER seen an AL school like those in Baton Rouge. And the magnet school actually WAS better than the regular schools there, where ceiling tiles were falling in, hitting kids on the head, teachers and students were ending up at the hospital due to mold and mildew from standing water due to roof leaks, and they were holding classrooms in bathrooms and janitor’s closets. This was in a system where the lottery was SUPPOSED to be helping the school system!

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HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
02/07/19 12:14 pm

Those are some wild stories. Our janitor closets were used for various things. But never classes.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
02/07/19 3:19 pm

Yeah, and this was back in the early 90’s. I didn’t even try to get a job as a school bus driver when we were there because kids were pulling guns and knives on drivers and teachers all the time.

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chickencookie
01/31/19 2:43 pm

Oh yes. Some schools were closed here in NJ on Tuesday and there was nothing happening (stupid decision I think) but weather like that πŸ₯Ά

MrsCrayonWax Katies Purpose
01/31/19 2:19 pm

100%

Here’s why...liability for one. Secondly, kids walk and wait for buses. When temps dip too low, heating and water may be compromised in older buildings. Bus engines may seize up.

Reply
TopsQueen Oregon Coast
01/31/19 1:59 pm

We have had school close because of high winds and the rare snow.

xxxceo Justice for All
01/31/19 1:50 pm

Yeah, a school day or two isn’t worth the risk of children getting frostbite, hypothermia, or dying.

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voc I am...what I am
01/31/19 1:57 pm

I came here to say that.

A lot of kids have to stand outside for the bus.

There. You didn’t say that.

MrsCrayonWax Katies Purpose
01/31/19 2:25 pm

When I was a kid there were no days off for cold! These damn gen Zedders!

GrandmaALiCE
01/31/19 1:23 pm

πŸ’  GrandmaAlice asked:

Inspired by @RussianThunder poll: Yesterday and today, the wind chill temperatures were in the minus 20’s. (Yes, that’s minus!) πŸ’¨ snow ❄️ Most schools were closed. Are school closings justified under those weather conditions?

Yes
No

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