Show of HandsShow of Hands

4JC June 12th, 2018 3:11pm

I read an article today that said that “this was the first meeting between a sitting U.S. president and a North Korean leader, wowing even Trump's toughest critics”. Do you agree that it wowed his toughest critics?

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CosmicOcean
06/13/18 9:33 pm

Kind of. But, lot of these people probably wouldn’t be impressed if Donald Trump cured disease, ended world hunger, and achieved world peace.

ladyniner81 no hope for humanity
06/13/18 8:41 pm

You have to see results first. Not just take his word for it. He's reneged on his word before

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lj74
06/13/18 1:19 pm

Inwardly-yes. Outwardly, they would never admit it.

commonsense America isnt racist
06/13/18 10:47 am

Wowed his toughest critics, yes.

Changed the minds of people that hate him for no other reason than he’s on the other side, no.

theNobamist Silicon Valley
06/12/18 10:59 pm

They're unwowable
Never-Trumpers are gonna hate.

PeaceKeepaGirl advance democracy
06/12/18 11:32 am

I'd say I half agree. The summit itself seems to have been a bit of a nothing-burger in terms of actual policy change; I worry we didn't go in with much of a goal besides denuclearization, and we couldn't really expect more than a vague commitment to that from DPRK, which is what we ultimately got. That said, I am surprised the usually incendiary Trump was able to put aside the "fire and fury" rhetoric long enough to get to the table, and do think the summit makes the world safer, if only for the peace symbolism.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 11:37 am

Have you read the actual agreement, with the four bullet points they agreed on, including the fact that he’s committed to sending our dead soldiers home? And the fact that Pompeo is going to be meeting with NK leaders in a series of meetings to iron out the details and hold their feet to the fire?

So it’s not just vague commitment. There is going to be follow up!

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 11:37 am

Meant to tell you that the agreement is in one of my two 1600 polls today.

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PeaceKeepaGirl advance democracy
06/12/18 11:59 am

Yeah, I saw that. It just doesn't seem like much to me. The thing about the POW remains was nice, but seems a pretty minor concession. Two of the bullet points were basically "we like peace now," which I'm all for and think makes us safer to commit to, but still doesn't seem to do anything concrete. The denuclearization point worries me. I remain skeptical that NK is committed to denuclearization with little apparent concession from the US, and worry that if the Trump admin pushes too hard the issue we will put all this peace talk at risk. If Trump is serious about withdrawing our forces from Korea though, that could be good news, and maybe in that event Kim would figure his conventional weapons would be a strong enough deterrent.

I also would have liked to see more bargaining for human rights of North Koreans. That is - or at least, should be - the main reason why we hold NK in contempt in the first place, so I don't see why we don't go all in on that, especially whereas...

PeaceKeepaGirl advance democracy
06/12/18 12:04 pm

...it seems to me a more attainable goal than defanging their military, which Kim will naturally feel is his regime's lifeline.

So yeah, I would have hoped for more concrete measures to protect human rights and advance peace. But I acknowledge this summit as being a victory, albeit a small one. Symbolic commitments to peace are often the first step toward actual peace.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 12:16 pm

The concrete part will come in Pompeo’s meetings with N Korean leaders, if all goes well. Trump made it clear that he would ONLY pull our troops IF there was complete denuclearization, so that part isn’t happening right now. They’re just not doing joint war exercises with S Korea.

I’m not as worried about human rights for N Koreans as I am rights for the rest of the world—that they stop all this trying to terrorize other countries like S Korea and shooting their missiles over island countries, for example.

I think human rights for them is something that can come later, after they’re not a threat to the entire world! Lol

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BarryB Was it something I said
06/12/18 10:50 am

Where did you read this?

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 11:08 am

I think it was an opinion piece on Fox News.

BarryB Was it something I said
06/12/18 11:19 am

Ahh. So it wasn’t from some biased source that sucks up to the Trump administration.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 11:35 am

Hey, at least I was willing to point out that this wasn’t what I was hearing from most of the MSM, because, of course, every news outlet other than Fox if very biased against Trump.

Btw, this was an opinion piece. Aren’t you going to tell me that opinion pieces don’t count? That’s what I always get from liberals when I post any opinion piece on a liberal site that is positive about Trump, after all!

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gluxford1 Arizona
06/12/18 10:42 am

No, they’re too blinded by their hatred and their partisanship to acknowledge what a monumental achievement this is.

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benseth 11,780 votes
06/12/18 9:44 am

I think the democrats are just as critical or maybe less than republicans would have been if Obama would have done this. I feel any other president in the past would have been completely skewered by the opposing party for being weak if they had done the same.

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benseth 11,780 votes
06/12/18 9:45 am

I’m more interested in the outcome myself, not the initial meeting. It does look promising.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 10:04 am

How in the world do you see this as being weak? Brokering peace is weak?

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benseth 11,780 votes
06/12/18 10:18 am

I didn’t say that I saw it as weak. I said that others would have in a different scenario. The way criticism has been in the past has been that this kind of legitimization shows weakness in the view of North Koreans. I have always been in favor of diplomacy but not many in the past agreed with that from either side of the aisle. I’m cautiously optimistic about this but let’s not pretend that many people in the past, especially republicans, refused to even consider doing it.

benseth 11,780 votes
06/12/18 10:22 am

I shouldn’t say *especially republicans* really, though. I meant to change it to *republicans included* or something like it. And there are still republicans criticizing it today.

“I’m not certain why meeting with Kim without preconditions is suddenly a grand coup when we would have gone nuts had Obama done the same” -Ben Shapiro

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 10:25 am

Thanks for that! But what does he mean by preconditions? I’m happy with the agreement they ironed out and the fact that Pompeo is going to be meeting with NK leaders in the future to iron out the details and hold their toes to the fire. In case you haven’t read it, the agreement and details are in one of my 1600 polls today.

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benseth 11,780 votes
06/12/18 10:37 am

Well traditionally preconditions meant some types of confirmed suspensions of the nuclear program. I was really just showing a quick example of criticism from the right, although it may not have been the best example. I’m sure you’ve seen some of them. But the criticism of past presidents is even more clear.

benseth 11,780 votes
06/12/18 10:39 am

I’m also optimistic about it. And I really think Pompeo is moving this along very well. I give him a ton of the credit and think he will continue to do so. I’m more worried about NK continuing to move forward.

benseth 11,780 votes
06/12/18 10:41 am

I will check your poll out. I just have to temper my expectations since NK has made promises before that they didn’t keep.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 10:50 am

Yes, I agree that was should be cautiously optimistic! I hope and pay this time will be different!

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Jazzy5 USA
06/12/18 9:20 am

I don’t think they can say WOW!

GlockMan1 Alabama
06/12/18 8:46 am

It will wow a few and he will gain some Democratic voters next election but if you HATE the man, nothing will change in your life.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 8:46 am

Good point, Glock!

Izzynius
06/12/18 8:38 am

It wowed me. I am happy that Trump improved relations with North Korea.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 8:39 am

Thanks, Izzy! It’s refreshing when someone that is not usually in favor of Trump can see the good he’s doing! It’s VERY rare!

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chickencookie Jihad Joe
06/12/18 8:33 am

You would think it should but it won’t. They will never make him succeed at anything even if it benefits the world.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 8:37 am

I agree. It’s pitiful.

shygal47 Florida east coast
06/12/18 8:30 am

It was a meet-n-greet with nothing of consequence resulting.
I’ll give Trump credit for the handshake, and Kim also, but there’s not any meat with those potatoes.
.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 8:36 am

So you don’t think the following are important?

A commitment to “complete denuclearization” of the Korean Peninsula

A commitment to “build a lasting and stable peace regime” on the Korean Peninsula.

A commitment to “recovering POW/MIA remains including the immediate repatriation of those already identified.”

I would think, if nothing else, you would be happy that N Korea has pledged to send these soldiers home.

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GlockMan1 Alabama
06/12/18 8:47 am

HATERS are always gonna hate. HATE consumes their lives. Look at Robert DeNiro

shygal47 Florida east coast
06/12/18 8:52 am

I think the commitments are fine, great even, but NK has made other commitments in the past to other presidents. I didn’t care much for Reagan but he was right about one thing - trust but verify. They are part of the fabled “inscrutable East” ... to use aged terminology.
I don’t trust Kim. I am trusting our government not to put us in any position that will end up being another fubar.
.

shygal47 Florida east coast
06/12/18 8:52 am

And I have no idea what @GlockMan is ranting about.

shygal47 Florida east coast
06/12/18 8:53 am

Sorry - @GlockMan1.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 9:03 am

I think it says something that this is the first president that has ever actually MET Kim. I would think that would go a long way toward Kim following through—as he probably sees this as a sign of respect that other Presidents haven’t even offered. We all know what Rodman said about what Kim said about Obama not giving him the time of day.

At any rate, DJT has gotten farther than any other president has, and I give him credit for that.

I do agree with you, Shy, about trust but verify. I was pleased to see that DJT had tempered his expectations before this meeting, going from being sure there would be sudden denuclearization to a more tempered view that it would probably take several meetings over time.

I don’t trust Kim, either, and I’m PRAYING that this will all go well, & that God would even touch Kim’s heart.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 9:05 am

I can tell you what Glock is talking about.....those that hate Trump will NEVER admit any good that Trump has done. As Huckabee said, “If Donald Trump walked on water, his critics would say, ‘Well, would ya look at that....Trump can’t even swim!’”

The reference to DeNiro is a speech he gave at some awards show, I think, where he said, “F**k Trump.”

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 9:28 am

I’m about to post a 1600 that has the contents of their agreement in it, but wanted to give you the first option to read it, Shy, to see if what it says makes any difference in your opinion. Here it is:

www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/joint-statement-president-donald-j-trump-united-states-america-chairman-kim-jong-un-democratic-peoples-republic-korea-singapore-summit/?utm_source=ods&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=1600d

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shygal47 Florida east coast
06/12/18 10:46 am

I read the four bullets. Number Two is a bit concerning - at no point does it mention the elephant in the room South Korea.
There needs to be a lot more definition here before anything else. A peace treaty must be signed between the two Korea’s and that treaty needs to be approved by the UN - since they started the “police action” in the first place.
... just my humble thoughts ... that someone will not like for sure ...
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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 11:12 am

Well, North and South Korea have already agreed to work on and sign a peace treaty within the year, so I’m assuming that’s part of all this.

www.nytimes.com/2018/04/27/world/asia/north-korea-south-kim-jong-un.html

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mitchman399 Oregon
06/12/18 8:18 am

It's impressive he got that far, but I'll be more impressed when there's concrete results.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 8:23 am

Oh, I think that goes for everyone! Trump started out blustering that he was going to get immediate denuclearization and then later tempered that by saying that he thought it was going to take a series of meetings. I think that’s a good thing—more level headed and realistic, imho.

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HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
06/12/18 8:40 am

Like we received w Iran. Let's face. America talks tough but we gave away the bank to Iran, and Korea will be more of the same.

chickencookie Jihad Joe
06/12/18 8:44 am

I truly doubt Bolton will give billions to a brutal dictator.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 8:45 am

I agree. I don’t see Trump doing that, either. As they say, “There’s a NEW sheriff in town!” LOL

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mitchman399 Oregon
06/12/18 8:56 am

I'm skeptical though. We promised to stop "war games" which we've claimed are legal and fair and in return we get a promise that NK will denuclearize without any real actions to do so being taken. I hope it turns out the way Trump thinks it will, but it seems like NK and the nations who back it up are ahead right now.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 9:16 am

I disagree. Trump said that it might take several meetings to get what we want, which I think is a very tempered, level-headed, realistic approach.

And I think the following is a GREAT start:

A commitment to “complete denuclearization” of the Korean Peninsula

A commitment to “build a lasting and stable peace regime” on the Korean Peninsula.

A commitment to “recovering POW/MIA remains including the immediate repatriation of those already identified.”

I would think, if nothing else, people would be happy that N Korea has pledged to send these soldiers home.

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mitchman399 Oregon
06/12/18 9:23 am

North Korea has made empty pledges countless times. It would be nice if they were true this time, but I'll believe it when I see it.

chickencookie Jihad Joe
06/12/18 9:23 am

I heard it might take 15 years to totally clear out.

mitchman399 Oregon
06/12/18 9:27 am

It also takes action to take them out not mere pledges.

mitchman399 Oregon
06/12/18 9:32 am

I already know about what the agreement is. I'm hopefully that peace will be achieved. But it seems a bit naive to undoubtedly expect that NK will keep their word because Trump is in office. They don't have a history of keep their word. But who knows maybe and hopefully this time they will.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 10:02 am

Well, if you’re just reading/watching MSM, you probably don’t know the exact wording of the agreement, as most of them aren’t including it. Did you know that it includes sending our soldiers home?

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mitchman399 Oregon
06/12/18 10:29 am

Yes... stop assuming everyone who slightly disagrees with you is horribly uninformed. Also I don't even watch MSM. Not everything Fox News tells you about liberals is true.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 10:45 am

So you read it straight from the White House, as well?

mitchman399 Oregon
06/12/18 11:09 am

I heard it from another source first, but yes I've read it.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 8:13 am

Yes, we know it should. But has it? See my comment below.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 8:12 am

💠 4JC asked:
06/12/2018
I read an article today that said that “this was the first meeting between a sitting U.S. president and a North Korean leader, wowing even Trump's toughest critics”. Do you agree that it wowed his toughest critics?

Yes
No

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 8:13 am

I’ve only read a few articles, and haven’t watched the news, but the articles I’ve read aren’t giving him credit for anything, and are downplaying what this means, or being negative about it. Have you seen any of his critics speak in favor of this meeting?

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 8:14 am

Also, SOH hasn’t done a poll about this historic event, that I can find, and I’ve noticed that Dems are avoiding all the questions that others have posted about it. Is it that they can’t spin this one?

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 8:17 am

I stand corrected. They apparently just posted a couple of polls about it, but none about Trump getting credit for it, or how you view Trump because of it. Just polls questioning whether it’s going to do any good or not.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/18 8:38 am

The take away from the meeting that I got from one article is the following:

A commitment to “complete denuclearization” of the Korean Peninsula

A commitment to “build a lasting and stable peace regime” on the Korean Peninsula.

A commitment to “recovering POW/MIA remains including the immediate repatriation of those already identified.”

I would think, if nothing else, people would be happy that N Korea has pledged to send these soldiers home!

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