Show of HandsShow of Hands

tractorman June 8th, 2018 2:54pm

The top 1% of American families numbering about 160,000, now hold 22% of America’s wealth. This is up from just 10% in 1963. Still think the game isn’t rigged?

6 Liked

Comments: Add Comment

commonsense America isnt racist
06/11/18 8:34 am

Do you have any evidence that it’s rigged other than some people are rich and some are not.

Reply
tractorman Oklahoma
06/11/18 9:35 am

Look around you! For the most part, with a few exceptions used as the norm by the right-wingers, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Check some stats on the possibility % of the poor’s kids climbing out of poverty. Seems that shows it’s rigged for the privileged to succeed, the non privileged to fail.

commonsense America isnt racist
06/11/18 10:46 am

You can think that way sure. But you can also think this way: it’s perception. Poor parents raise poor children. It can be hard for poor kids to think they can succeed like bill gates or Oprah. 99% of the opportunity to become wealthy or comfortable are there for every single person. It’s up to that person to want it badly and work for it.

mark4
06/14/18 3:20 am

Every one of the rich people I’ve ever known started out really poor but were determined to do better. I’m not rich, but very comfortable and I began as one of the hungry poor, doing so much better now that I feel rich. I still know a number of the very poor and it is their mindset that keeps them that way, breeding new generations who think the same, envious rather than productive, resentful rather than ambitious.

ladyniner81 no hope for humanity
06/10/18 11:57 am

The Middle Class is dead, the American Dream is dead, the only way you can be one of the 1% is if you're lucky and rich (some are there from inheritance aka Trump, the Waltons, if Dave Thomas's family still owns Wendy's etc)

Reply
mark4
06/14/18 3:22 am

Every one of the rich people I’ve ever known started out really poor but were determined to do better. I’m not rich, but very comfortable and I began as one of the hungry poor, doing so much better now that I feel rich. I still know a number of the very poor and it is their mindset that keeps them that way, breeding new generations who think the same, envious rather than productive, resentful rather than ambitious.

suppressedID keep Summer safe
06/09/18 8:45 am

Prepare to be “disappeared”.

Been great knowing you.

Reply
STONEYTJONES Indiana
06/08/18 7:17 pm

How about instead of whining about others having more than you, you just try harder.

Reply
tractorman Oklahoma
06/08/18 8:40 pm

Not whining, that’s your job. I’m just looking for some living up to our belief that we all in America have equal chances to succeed. I already am comfortable but I realize that I was very privileged and lucky. Just think everyone should have that opportunity.

STONEYTJONES Indiana
06/09/18 7:22 am

Everyone does have that opportunity they just have to seize it for themselves instead of whining about others having more.

suppressedID keep Summer safe
06/09/18 8:46 am

That’s the lie: the opportunity isn’t the same.

Not even remotely.

STONEYTJONES Indiana
06/09/18 9:30 am

Ok. I will play. How so?

tractorman Oklahoma
06/09/18 1:45 pm

That’s all You do is play.
I could start with inadequate prenatal care, up through poor nutrition, on to bad day care, into horrible schools, up through rampant prejudice and sexism, but you don’t care. You’re like trump and compassion and empathy are foreign to your thought processes. Not you fault cause you probably were born that way...

STONEYTJONES Indiana
06/09/18 3:32 pm

“inadequate prenatal care, up through poor nutrition, on to bad day care, into horrible schools”

None of that is anyone’s fault but their own.

tractorman Oklahoma
06/10/18 2:05 pm

Oh MY GOD! You actually think that a child
Is at fault for those things? How stuck in your grumpy conservative right wing, grunge ideology are you?

STONEYTJONES Indiana
06/10/18 5:01 pm

Not the child, their parents.

tractorman Oklahoma
06/10/18 5:08 pm

Are the sins of the parents to be hung upon the child? Can’t you see that they start off life with 2 strikes against them which questions your assertions that WWE all have an equal opportunity? That’s all I’m saying, that sometimes a little help would make things a bit more fair but you guys just want to punish them for being disadvantaged. How that help anything (assuming you care about helping others)?

STONEYTJONES Indiana
06/10/18 5:15 pm

Being born to shitty parents doesn’t mean “the game is rigged” and it certainly doesn’t mean that people that have succeeded in life are bad. That’s just stupid.
How can you honestly say they don’t get help?

tractorman Oklahoma
06/10/18 8:37 pm

Stones, don’t know what you have been reading in our conversation but it’s obvious you are attempting to not understand so I’ll stop wasting my time...bye

STONEYTJONES Indiana
06/10/18 9:17 pm

Imagine that, how liberal of you.

tractorman Oklahoma
06/11/18 9:44 am

Stones, when you can prove to me that a little black kid born in a Baltimore, Chicago,
New York ghetto, a little white kid born in Appalachia, a little Hispanic kid born in LA, or a Native American kid born on the reservation has the same opportunities as a white kid born in Beverly Hills, Manhattan, or any other affluent community, then we can discuss the Great American Myth of equality.

STONEYTJONES Indiana
06/11/18 10:07 am

It’s all about their parents. If you raise your child to be a victim guess what they’re going to be? Kids are a parents responsibility not the governments.

What political party has controlled nearly all of those shitholes you named? Democrats. Which political party wants to keep people poor and dependent on government? Democrats. So why are you pretending you care about those people?

tractorman Oklahoma
06/11/18 12:22 pm

Well said like a true privileged bully boy who spewed hate and venom on anyone not like him. Sad😞

STONEYTJONES Indiana
06/11/18 3:21 pm

You’re the only one spewing hate. You hate successful people or anyone that does better than you. I grew up fairly poor. But I was taught to have a good work ethic and not to be a victim. And I’ve done pretty well for myself. I never had hand outs and didn’t blame everyone else when I was living paycheck to paycheck. I wanted more so I kept working towards getting more.
So again, stop whining about everyone else and what others have and worry about yourself and your own family.

tractorman Oklahoma
06/11/18 5:49 pm

I believe that all of my American brothers and sisters deserve the same breaks you and I got. You think all of them do, I think a great many of them do not. I’d guess you are in Regan’s “me” generation and are comfortable with your prejudices against people unlike you. Sad 😞

STONEYTJONES Indiana
06/11/18 8:46 pm

I didn’t get any breaks, I worked my ass off to get where I am.

STONEYTJONES Indiana
06/11/18 8:47 pm

Why is it you white liberals think minorities are to dumb to make it on their own without your help?

mark4
06/14/18 3:24 am

Every one of the rich people I’ve ever known started out really poor but were determined to do better. I’m not rich, but very comfortable and I began as one of the hungry poor, doing so much better now that I feel rich. I still know a number of the very poor and it is their mindset that keeps them that way, breeding new generations who think the same, envious rather than productive, resentful rather than ambitious.

PhxLibertarian Republic of Dave
06/08/18 1:20 pm

How is the game rigged? It isn't like these are the same people. The turnover in the top 1% is huge. This is because the game isn't fixed and new people move into the top 1% forcing others out all the time.

Reply
tractorman Oklahoma
06/09/18 3:15 pm

These are the same families with very little movement in the last 30-40 years

PhxLibertarian Republic of Dave
06/09/18 4:46 pm

Tractor. That is completely false. While there are a couple families like the Waltons who habe stayed there the bulk of the top changes regularly as companies like Google make new people wealthy, before that it was yahoo and earlier AOL, uhaul, etc. It is a misconception that there isn't significant turnover. A quick Google search results in www.cato.org/blog/high-turnover-among-americas-rich. And while this represents earnings rather than wealth, here are some interesting excerpts:

Over 50% of Americans will be in the top 10% of earners for at least one year of their working lives.

Over 11% will be part of the top 1%.

94% of those who make the top 1% will only enjoy it for a single year.

Approximately 99% will lose their top 1% status within a decade.

There is more. It is worth a read.

tractorman Oklahoma
06/09/18 8:06 pm

The Cato institute would never fudge or misrepresent stats, would they?
There are lies, damn lies, and then statistics

PhxLibertarian Republic of Dave
06/09/18 8:59 pm

Tractor, this is pretty common knowledge. I just put in the first source in Google because I expected you to balk at the truth. Google it yourself or present conflicting sources.

tractorman Oklahoma
06/10/18 2:29 pm

Your statistics are skewed because you use income rather than wealth. Your 11% who make $450,000 in a calendar year are truly movers in and out in salary but the “old money” owned in stocks, bonds, real estate, etc. is pretty much a static group because income and wealth aren’t the same. Those families get 19% of their yearly income from salary, 81% from holdings. We are doing apples and oranges..

mark4
06/14/18 3:26 am

And so I repeat.

Every one of the rich people I’ve ever known started out really poor but were determined to do better. I’m not rich, but very comfortable and I began as one of the hungry poor, doing so much better now that I feel rich. I still know a number of the very poor and it is their mindset that keeps them that way, breeding new generations who think the same, envious rather than productive, resentful rather than ambitious.

PhxLibertarian Republic of Dave
06/14/18 9:55 am

Tractor, the measure is income, not wages. People with incredible wealth make incredible earnings from that wealth, but still there is tremendous movement in the top 1% earners. It isn't the case that a small number of people making Hugh money from investments simply stay in the top 1%.

RussianThunder Russia and USA
06/08/18 12:17 pm

Yet, many of those are self made people. Gates, Zuckerberg, Paige, Brinn, Bezos....they all had an idea. They all worked hard. They made something out of nothing.
Anyone can do that but instead, they want a part of the profits for something they had nothing to do with.
The Rockefellers, Walton’s, Kochs’s, Trumps yes, they inherited money but they still had to manage it and invest it wisely.

In addition, nearly all of these people or families are highly philanthropic, even though they don’t have to be.

The system isn’t rigged. You just have to have an idea, commit to hard work and market it.

Reply
AnarchoCowboy Back 4 Now
06/08/18 1:05 pm

Amen Ruso, this is the mindset that leads to success, contrary to the popular "the world owes me" belief.

tractorman Oklahoma
06/08/18 1:15 pm

“Anyone can do this”? Really? Are you shittin’ me. These people were extremely lucky and gifted but there are millions and millions who don’t have the OPPORTUNITY available. Why can’t these families pay their fair share for those who have had NO opportunity. How much money and power does 1% of out population need?

AnarchoCowboy Back 4 Now
06/08/18 1:29 pm

I'm not saying how much they need. Fact of the matter is they earned it and should be able to keep what they worked for. If you want a piece of the pie you need to earn it yourself. There is opportunity, you just have to find it.

RussianThunder Russia and USA
06/08/18 2:08 pm

No, I’m not “shitting you”.

You think Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, George Soros, Larry Ellison, Larry Paige, Sergei Brinn, Leonardo Del Vecchio, Richard Branson, John Paul DeJoria, Sheldon Adelson, Daymond John, Steve Jobs. Roman Abramovich, Oprah Winfrey, JK Rowling, Chris Gardner, Guy Laliberté, Kenny Troutt, Do Won Chang, Ken Langone, Shahid Khan, Jan Koum....to name just a few, were born with silver spoons in their mouths? No, they worked hard, had ideas, persevered. They took a gamble. They could have lost everything or struck gold. These guys struck gold.
Most Americans want to live comfortably and take no risks. That is their right but if no risks are taken, no rewards may be found. Yes, you could lose it all but again, it’s a risk. Some of these guys taught themselves business, others programming, some had to learn English on top of it.

Don’t seek what you didn’t work for.

tractorman Oklahoma
06/08/18 2:33 pm

Sorry to bother you guys...y'all already drunk the capitalism Kool-Aid being handed out by those who were lucky enough to be at the right place at the right time and utilized the labor of others to get rich (see history of labor exploitation)
The game is rigged and the suckers don't even realize it😲 as they keep spinning the roulette wheel.😟

RussianThunder Russia and USA
06/08/18 2:38 pm

You sit in the couch and pout and whine about how hard life is.....waiting for a handout. Good luck getting anywhere in life.

My parents grew up poor in the Soviet Union. Hard work and risks. Capitalism carried a lot further than communism or socialism ever did.

So, yes. I guess they drank the kook-aid and decided to try and succeeded.

What do you do for a living?

AnarchoCowboy Back 4 Now
06/08/18 3:50 pm

Labor exploitation? Do you have a specific example or did you just pull that outta your ass?

tractorman Oklahoma
06/08/18 8:42 pm

How about slavery, child labor in America for a century and continuing now overseas, breaking unions to pay unlivable wages, etc.

tractorman Oklahoma
06/08/18 8:44 pm

Russian, I’m the CEO of a small company🤫

AnarchoCowboy Back 4 Now
06/08/18 8:53 pm

It's this simple, if the wage ain't good enough, don't take the job. Employer-employee relationships are mutually beneficial, that's why they exist.

RussianThunder Russia and USA
06/09/18 2:49 am

You are the CEO of a small company yet you are pro-union. It must be a very small company.
Do you offer goods or services?

tractorman Oklahoma
06/09/18 5:31 am

Allowing a union allows me to find and retain good employees, pay living wages, have great morale and productivity, and make a modest profit for the company. Isn’t that what it’s all about? Or is it paying the least you can, screwing employees, and making huge profits for the short term? You tell me....

tractorman Oklahoma
06/09/18 5:34 am

Anarcho... that’s a simple answer to a complex question, pretty much a cop out in any discussion

tractorman Oklahoma
06/09/18 6:48 am

Anarcho... so no reply to the comment they built their wealth on the backs of slaves, children, overseas slave wages, migrant workers, etc.?

RussianThunder Russia and USA
06/09/18 6:56 am

Do you assume you are the only ethical CEO out there? How many employees and again, do you offer good or services?

RussianThunder Russia and USA
06/09/18 6:57 am

You don’t need a union if your wages are higher, insurance plans better and offer incentives. You just need to do it without union negotiations.

AnarchoCowboy Back 4 Now
06/09/18 10:30 am

Cop out? That's what this all comes down to in its most basic form. It was a mutually beneficial relationship in all those scenarios except slavery, which thankfully we no longer have to worry about.

AnarchoCowboy Back 4 Now
06/09/18 10:40 am

No that's 4 tractor

tractorman Oklahoma
06/09/18 1:39 pm

Anarcho...yeah, tell me about the 10 year olds working in the mills, the migrant workers, the Nike kids in Indonesia working for .10 cents an hour, etc, etc. Really? A mutually agreed contract...educate yourself about labors abuse at the hands of large and small corporations 🧐🧐🤓🤓

AnarchoCowboy Back 4 Now
06/09/18 1:57 pm

They are not being forced to work for a low wage! It's still they're choice. If it was that bad a deal, they would not choose to work for Nike or whoever it be.

RussianThunder Russia and USA
06/09/18 2:32 pm

Anarcho.....I was agreeing with you until you said it’s still the kids choice.
I mean, seriously. If its 10 (ok, whatever the sign for cents is) or starve, they take the 10 cents.
I was with you right up to that statement

AnarchoCowboy Back 4 Now
06/09/18 3:38 pm

That job is still a good deal if it affords them life. If I were starving (on the verge of death) and had nobody to provide for me, I would love to have that job. Does that mean I will be content with it forever, no, but for now it is still a good deal.

mark4
06/14/18 3:34 am

People do not take low wages because someone forces them to. They do so because it’s better than the alternatives. I did, beginning work at age 7 for 25 cents per hour, working 8 to 10 hour days in filthy conditions, and so I repeat.

Every one of the rich people I’ve ever known started out really poor but were determined to do better. I’m not rich, but very comfortable and I began as one of the hungry poor, doing so much better now that I feel rich. I still know a number of the very poor and it is their mindset that keeps them that way, breeding new generations who think the same, envious rather than productive, resentful rather than ambitious.

tractorman Oklahoma
06/14/18 8:15 am

A common commentary, “If I can do it then everyone else can”. Congratulations on being one of the small percentage of poor who have the opportunity to work their way out of poverty. It does happen but I’m sure you can find some luck, support, help, etc. available to you that allowed you to do what you did. Everyone should have that opportunity and then if they decide to not take it, it’s on them. That time isn’t nearly here yet for the working poor.

mark4
06/14/18 1:19 pm

You want to congratulate the others I mentioned too?
Got time to castigate the poor and will be?

commonman1 Peace
06/08/18 8:22 am

Middle class is shrinking. Good news upper middle class if growing.

Why are people jealous of successful people? Why do the want successful people to pay their way?

Reply
tractorman Oklahoma
06/08/18 9:44 am

Not pay others way, just their fair share to the society that enabled them to make this $$$ so that others can have an opportunity...

RussianThunder Russia and USA
06/08/18 12:19 pm

Come up with an idea, work hard and market it.

The outcomes in life are not equal because the work put into it is not equal. Yes, there are people who inherit fortunes. Many of the wealthy today, did not. They worked their asses off. They reap the reward.

RussianThunder Russia and USA
06/08/18 2:09 pm

Nearly everyone who is a billionaire or multimillionaire is highly philanthropic. What do you want, a check made out to you personally?

lj74
06/08/18 8:12 am

Equal opportunity tractor. They just made more of it then you have as shown by the increase

Reply
tractorman Oklahoma
06/08/18 1:37 pm

“Equal Opportunity”
What you been smokin’ bro?
Let’s play Monopoly and you get the purples and light blue and I get the rest and we have “equal opportunity”. Hope you don’t think casinos offer equal opportunity of winning to everyone, you’ll be broke even tho someone wins the jackpot occasionally..

RussianThunder Russia and USA
06/08/18 2:10 pm

I suspect your attitude alone would keep you off the millionaires list. Nothing will be handed to you.

AnarchoCowboy Back 4 Now
06/08/18 8:08 am

Ever heard it takes money to make money? It's true

Reply
RussianThunder Russia and USA
06/08/18 12:21 pm

If you have a great idea, investors will support you. Again, it takes hard work.

Sitting home and playing video games all day is not going to earn you any money.