Show of HandsShow of Hands

benseth June 1st, 2018 3:36pm

Itโ€™s obvious that the corruptibility of the presidential pardon power has been taken advantage of over the previous decades. Do these new over the top pardons highlight a need for a separation of power to ensure fair case review?

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Sentinel Ya ie wa noh
06/01/18 7:52 pm

Of the "212" pardons signed by Obummer..... And you think these few are over the top....?.....

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 8:08 pm

I didn’t approve of many of those either and there were some misuses. But I didn’t have the time really to get too outraged since the bulk of them came on his way out. He also didn’t make a spectacle out of them like trump is. It makes it obvious that they are politically motivated, whereas I couldn’t definitely know the motivation of some of obama’s. To make a long comment short, this is now and I’m expressing my views on these because obama is in the past.

Sentinel Ya ie wa noh
06/01/18 8:21 pm

Sorry pal, Obummer & the last 8 yrs. have ended, but they are far from the past or forgotten..... just the 5 terrorists released was an act against this Countries National Security.....

Had Trump released known and suspected terrorists, it would be a different story.....

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 8:24 pm

Do you know what the definition of past is?

Sentinel Ya ie wa noh
06/01/18 8:30 pm

Do you think the past should be forgotten by its People.....or remembered for guidance and reflection of what not do to jeopardize this Nation?.....

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 8:32 pm

You seem to very informed on this subject. Care to name the 5 terrorists pardoned?

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 8:39 pm

I never said anything about forgetting the mistakes from the past. But there’s no reason to put those mistakes in double jeopardy. If you really did learn from those past pardons, it seems you wouldn’t want these pardons to be made now. But instead, you use them to condone these.

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 8:40 pm

I don’t understand what that means.

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 8:41 pm

You wish to play? I wish you would give me the names of the 5 terrorists obama pardoned.

Sentinel Ya ie wa noh
06/01/18 8:43 pm

Why.....does it change the facts and changed the outcome of those facts.....

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 8:47 pm

If I’m going to rationally discuss this with you, I need to make sure you’re coming at me on the level with your claims. Sorry but these days I can’t just assume that someone is not under a propaganda spell.

Sentinel Ya ie wa noh
06/01/18 8:51 pm

Sorry pal.....all this old war horse does, is collect and discern information.....

Now, of the six citizens Trump pardoned, show me.....us, which of them pose a great risk to our National Security.....We'll wait.....

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 8:55 pm

You obviously don’t collect and discern information well if you didn’t retain the names of the 5 terrorists that obama definitely pardoned. ๐Ÿ˜‚

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 8:57 pm

And who is we? You and your infantile debate tactic? Who ARE you? You’re so cute and precious. ๐Ÿ˜‚

Sentinel Ya ie wa noh
06/01/18 9:01 pm

Ah again sorry pal you failed.....you have yet to put forth an argument to convince us that the treasonous & traitorous Obummer's pardons of terrorists should just be set aside and not considered.....I'm done, go back to playing in your sandbox Jr.....

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 9:04 pm

Of course you’re done. ๐Ÿ˜‚ but what did you do ๐Ÿ˜† Bye Felisha!

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 9:05 pm

I think I just got ambien texted ๐Ÿ˜†

Sentinel Ya ie wa noh
06/01/18 9:09 pm

Keep talking out of your ass, because your mouth knows better, all this coming from a punk while can not even decide what bathroom to use..... Amazing!.....

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 9:16 pm

Can’t decide what bathroom to use? What are you talking about?

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 9:20 pm

Are you implying that I’m transgender? ๐Ÿ˜† I can’t believe this. Are you on drugs? ๐Ÿ˜‚Thanks so much. I’ve been feeling down lately.

Sentinel Ya ie wa noh
06/01/18 9:24 pm

You mean "squatting down" do you not.....

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 9:27 pm

๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜†๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜†๐Ÿคข๐Ÿคญ๐Ÿคฎ๐Ÿ˜ณ๐Ÿ˜†๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜†

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 9:29 pm

I gotta quit you. This is too much. Why didn’t you just tell me who you were talking about getting pardoned. If it’s true and you know about it, it should’ve been a quick and easy search for you and then I could verify and we could go on our way arguing our points.

GlockMan1 Alabama
06/01/18 4:17 pm

He has pardoned a black man (which I can’t believe he did since he is such a big racist) and it appears he is going to pardon a Democrat who was convicted of corruption.

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benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 4:32 pm

And I’m sure he’s not gaining any type of political advantage for those.

ozzy
06/01/18 2:46 pm

Not a problem.

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Malekithe We have assumed control
06/01/18 1:50 pm

There are abuses across all 3 branches, none can be trusted.
This is minor by comparison

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benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 2:05 pm

So you choose to be complacent in a broken government and do nothing to try to fix it. Gotcha. ๐Ÿ‘Œ

Malekithe We have assumed control
06/01/18 2:13 pm

Did I say that? No.
If you want to extrapolate your own responses why bother posting a poll in the first place?
Get it?

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 2:45 pm

Abuses across all three branches is evidence of a broken government. You literally just said that you choose to ignore this abuse because of those other abuses. That sounds like complacency to me. Am I missing something? Is your grievance with me saying you’re not trying to fix it? Because I was mostly just trying abbreviate the definition of complacent just in case.

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 2:48 pm

That’s also what people do with a comment. They extrapolate info from it. If I extrapolated wrongly, then clarify so that I might “get it”.

Malekithe We have assumed control
06/01/18 3:43 pm

Please explain how you derived complacency from my comment and I will tell you where you went wrong.

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 3:51 pm

“This is minor by comparison.” You seem willing to dismiss it as minor just because there’s “abuses across all three branches”. I used complacency because that’s what that means to me. But if you’re so offended by this word, please by all means, explain it better so that I can amend my word to something better suited for you to get the point.

Malekithe We have assumed control
06/01/18 3:57 pm

I am not offended at all. You seem very worked up because you were called out for projecting your opinions onto other peoples comments.

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 4:00 pm

I’m not worked up any more than usual lol. But I don’t know what you’re referring to about being called out. I’m “called out” on SoH all the time about my opinions or views. Please expound.

Malekithe We have assumed control
06/01/18 4:05 pm

I dismissed these pardons as minor in comparison because that is EXACTLY what they are. As far as complacency goes, that assumption is as arrogant as it is ignorant.
I support causes that are working towards reform and changes in several areas of our government across all three branches where I believe corruption and abuse occurs. I also vote against incumbents in most cases because the longer they are in power, the more corrupt they usually become

Malekithe We have assumed control
06/01/18 4:10 pm

Judicial reform, sensible immigration reform and healthcare reform are at the top of my list. I also want a constitutional amendment requiring a balanced budget, campaign finance reform and more investigation into federal spending and campaign contributions.

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 4:30 pm

Well that all seems very reasonable except calling me arrogant and ignorant. Maybe I was “ignorant” of what you were saying, although I would call that misunderstanding instead. But I still don’t agree that misuse of the pardon is minor, either by comparison or otherwise. I do agree that there are many other corruption issues and overall problems in all branches that need to be addressed ASAP also. Thanks for explaining and sorry that I misunderstood and reacted coarsely initially.

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 4:31 pm

Now what were you talking about me projecting my opinions on comments?

Malekithe We have assumed control
06/01/18 4:40 pm

I called your assumptions and projections arrogant and ignorant, not you personally.
I don’t you well enough to know if you are arrogant and/or ignorant. ๐Ÿ˜Ž

Malekithe We have assumed control
06/01/18 4:43 pm

We will disagree on the pardons. They are minor to me because there are relatively few of them and generally have little to no real impact on anyone’s life.

Malekithe We have assumed control
06/01/18 4:44 pm

The down side of being better than everyone else is that people tend to think that you are arrogant๐Ÿ˜Ž

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 4:55 pm

Alright well thanks for explaining again, although I don’t really think it was arrogant. But okay. I hope you continue to support changes that limit or stamp out corruption. That’s all I’m really interested in, not winning an argument or getting upset about insinuations of ignorance. I’m not gonna get my feelings hurt.

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 4:57 pm

Sorry about that delay. I started the comment and put it down for dinner before completing. Thanks for the discourse.

Malekithe We have assumed control
06/01/18 5:04 pm

Have a good evening.

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 1:24 pm

Okay, first off, just because something was done before doesn’t mean it’s how it should be. This reasoning is why we have amendments to our constitution. Secondly, presidents of the far past used a process as to compromise or ensure an amount of fairness. This isn’t being done anymore. The last several presidents pushed theirs through without individual consequences or much restraint. We need to look at this power at least as possibly being misused as a political tool.

Radon Parts Unknown
06/01/18 12:42 pm

We don't like how powerful the government is, let's make more of it!!!

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 1:10 pm

There is a massive amount of the government I would like to see go away. Unchecked and out of control bureaucracy is just as bad as no government at all. What I’m proposing is a minimal amount of government that works correctly and is not corruptible.

SuperAgain They lie, Get Over It
06/01/18 11:58 am

I’m surprised how the other threads missed your point, even when you steered them in that direction. The problem with these executive powers is that they were intentionally less restrictive so as to not inadvertently tie the President’s hands. ...the problem being that they assumed a higher standard from the office holder. Yes, let’s find a way to limit unitary pardon power to make it difficult and legally unethical to continue these abuses.

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benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 12:04 pm

Some are intentionally missing the point.

SuperAgain They lie, Get Over It
06/01/18 12:06 pm

A suggestion: an independent, non-partisan judicial review that must refer cases of merit to the President. ...and all cases should have been tried, convicted, sentenced, served some time, and those so convicted must formally apply for a pardon.

RussianThunder Russia and USA
06/01/18 10:38 am

Geez, it’s not like Trump has pardoned or granted clemency to a traitor. Oh wait, that was Obama.....my bad.

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benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 10:44 am

I didn’t mention either of those presidents’ names, you did. A change in this power could have kept either of them from abusing it for political gain. Nice job on your blind, partisan attack though.

RussianThunder Russia and USA
06/01/18 10:52 am

Not a blind partisan attack. Trump, the idiot, is getting ready to pardon Blago. I made a poll about it. I’m not sure, if he actually does do it, which would be worse, Manning or Blago. My point is that it’s one of the perks of power and the left now thinks it should be taken from them. I disagree. If you look at Obama’s pardons, many were outrageous sentences to begin with and were non violent crimes. I’m actually glad he had that power. That trump might use it for something stupid (as I think the pardon for Manning was) doesn’t mean it should be taken away from the Office holder.
I guess it did seem like an attack but its just one of those things I want the left to think about (your not the first I’ve seen online commenting on it). If you strip it from Trump you strip it from every president who comes after him. In the case of Obama, Manning was horrible but he actually provided justice to many.

RussianThunder Russia and USA
06/01/18 10:53 am

Oh and I realize you were just asking the question, not calling for Trump to be stripped of that power.

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 11:02 am

Yeah you came across differently in both original comments than you are presenting now. But whatever. To your point-

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 11:08 am

I’m not proposing to take the power away completely, although that should be on the table as an option too. I was originally asking about a separation of that power to check the president on on whether there was proper review of each case. A president elected the way we elect (as a popularity contest) might not have a background that would employ them with a good legal, investigatory mind.

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 11:10 am

And, looking back, I did imply trump in the question. Sorry.

suppressedID destiny is right now
06/01/18 10:17 am

You’re talking process and the Right wants it as a privilege.

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 10:32 am

I agree. But if the Right keeps it as a privilege, then the Left gets to use it as a privilege also. One or the other parties could dissolve, limit or separate the power to curb corruption but they don’t.

lj74
06/01/18 9:25 am

The facts are, like it or not, pardons is one of the powers of the President. And, the Presidents legacy has to live with what they do. Whether it’s Clinton, Bush, Obama or Trump. Not our call and never will be.

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 9:37 am

I understand it’s the president’s power. That’s the point of my question. And I’m not proposing the power be separated to the president and “us”. I’m asking if it should be separated to the president and at least one other entity or branch. Obviously, EVERYONE believes that at least one president has abused this power. Maybe we should do something so that it isn’t abused in the future?

RussianThunder Russia and USA
06/01/18 10:40 am

Bradley Manning should still be in prison but it was Obama’s right and privilege to pardon him. I think presidents should have that privilege.

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 10:45 am

I wish you bring something of substance, hack.

RussianThunder Russia and USA
06/01/18 10:55 am

The poll asked for my opinion, I gave it but I’ve not been called a hack before. Interesting.

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 10:58 am

And just to further acknowledge your hyper partisan-charged comment (although I shouldn’t), I am not a proponent of destroying the notion that there are only two genders. If a person wants to surgically change their bodies to feel better about themselves, they should feel free to do so on their own time and dime. And no one should push the false narrative of there being anything other than the spectrum of the two genders into national discourse. It’s disproven by science and has no place in rational thought.

benseth 11,780 votes
06/01/18 11:15 am

I see now. You thought I was the hack.