Show of Hands

Tariffs will ultimately be passed on to the taxpayers and so tons of things will be more expensive. I don’t think that’s good at all.

Not if u buy american

Many, many Americans items have imported components.

American goods become more expensive too.

A 25% tax on imported steel and aluminum will have a very minor effect on US economy, any economists will tell you this. The only fear is if things get worse

Does change the fact that they do not work as intended. Those other countries are just as stupid for using them.

If others use them and we dont we become at an unfair disadvantage

Not true.

Do you call having American consumers paying higher prices for imported goods an advantage?? Or maybe it’s the alienation of our allies that you find so beneficial?

Those are the only two consequences to tariffs.

Also the fact that this is just going to cause those countries to increase their tariffs against us! It’s just exacerbating the problem

No it will cause them to be forced to negotiate fair trade deals. Sorry but I think Obama showed us being a pussy and taking bull for other countries doesnt work

There’s a difference between being strong and being a fucking idiot. This move was fucking idiotic.

There is no redeeming factor too it no matter how much you feel the need to rationalize it to yourself.

Tariffs hurt the economy and foreign relations while adding nothing positive.

Nope

Good response. Really shows you know what you’re talking about

Tariffs add nothing positive? They add tax revenue and put American made Goods at advantage you clearly don't know what you are talking about

They do not increase revenue because other countries just raise their tariffs too. Like Mexico is doing In response. And they don’t Leo our economy they hurt it because most goods are not produced here. Meaning almost all prices will rise. It doesn’t cost the other countries it’s costs the American people. It’s really simple economics.

Love to hear nobodies call a multi-billionaire president an idiot.

Hahahahahhha

Unemployment rate matches lowest point in half a century - CNN Moneyapple.news/AMzVGQWVTTC6484EUbzcG5A

Dear Reader:
It is bad news because low employment is "fake news".

Trumps polices cannot possibly be working because he is a neophyte, idiot, self aggrandizing moron who only cares about enriching himself and his family and any other view is verboten.
So it must be fake news.

Yours truly:
CNN, MSNBC NYT, Washington Post, etc.

I think some people just hate trump as much as the nazi hated the Jews . We are at that hysteria

And he is a billionaire and you posting on SOH

Nacho-with unemployment as low as it is, time for you to get a job and move out from under your mothers apron strings!

I am part of the hated 1.5% so I don't need any advice on succeeding in life thanks.

A "fraud" that was embraced by the global elite while they privately disrespected him, made him rich and increased his brand awareness.
I can live with that guy as President.

He beat an equally corrupt, unstable, mysoginsitic, sexist candidate - all things being equal - the voters preferred Trump.

The glass ceiling can wait for Niki Haley... until the left denigrates a first generation legal immigrant of color, Governor and UN Ambassador as unqualified or an Uncle Tom.
Bet on it.

All his policies are great for the rich. The tax breaks middle class people get is worthless, after you take into account the rising cost of living; gas prices, cost of cars will go up. There will be an economic recession in about 2 years, maybe less. Like trump has said in the past, the 2008 recession was great for him. The rich will be able to buy more houses for cheap, increasing there share of real estate, and then getting great return on rent over the next decade. Just prepare yourself. Save money, so you can be more agile when shit gets tough. Don’t buy a house now at all time highs. I would be very conservative, given our national debt; and they haven’t even cut spending much, like social security which will affect and trickle out to hurt all middle class.

"All his policies are great for the rich" and then you talk about tax cuts for the middle class but qualify because in the hypothetical recession that is looming they won't be enough.
So tax cuts are no good because they were not big enough?
I thought the tax cuts were too much and the "worst bill in legislative history" - now they were not big enough?

I guess low unemployment, historically low unemployment for blacks, higher wages are good good policies for the rich but are they not good polices for everyone?
Or are all Americans better off with high unemployment and low wages?

Ask Pocahontas about flipping houses in a recession - she did as Trump suggested and is yet another lefty multi millionaire champion of the poor. Funny how the left hates the the rich except the lefty rich - they are the good rich.

For the middle class the tax cuts were not worth it. What I mean but this, is we significantly added to the debt, and most of that went to the rich. So as far as the middle class is concerned, wages have not increased significantly, and the cost of living is going up. And the debt is over 21 trillion, and the dollar keeps being devalued. It was a terrible deal for the middle class.

Trump cuts taxes for 80% of people, companies paid bonuses, the economy is humming, unemployment is historically low and wages are up and all that indicates a poor policy decision by Trump.
Now that is left leaning logic on display.

Not most companies. I saw no bonus aside from the one I got three years ago. Trumps middle class tax cut has basically been erased by soaring gas prices. Trump deserves some credit for the current state of the economy but so does President Obama by that logic.

The tax cut has been erased by the gas prices.
I did not get a bonus.
Obama deserves credit for the economy.

Will the whining ever cease?

I'm not "whining". You're the one who started trying to defend Trump. I am correcting your narrow view. Trump is not the sole reason the economy is doing well at the moment, just as he won't be totally to blame when it corrects again, as it always does. His tax bill was a giveaway to the rich that blows adds more than Obama ever did, to the debt. I'm willing to see Obama flaws, I wish you would do the same with Trump.

Millions of Americans got a tax cut - gas prices are up.
Many companies paid a bonus - yours did not so the bonus was no good.
That is a whining.

I don't have to defemd a tax cut - the very idea that more taxes are good is what seperates the left from the right.

The left believes in taxation and spending that helps all, the right believes in no taxation and LOTS of spending to help the rich this creating the huge debt we have. Bill Clinton paid down the debt Bush, blew a hole in it.

*thus

9-11

So then why did he cut taxes? He put two wars on a credit card. In the past we had a war tax that actually paid for the war. Nowadays, conservatives spend huge amounts of money and then they cut taxes and call it "fiscally responsible".

I do think any political party is fiscally responsible.

How come we are not allowed to bring up Obama or it is whataboutism but Bush is still fair game?

You want to relitigate the Bush 10years ago fine - shirt story - Clinton let Osama go while he was get blown in the Oval, Osama's savages attacked, Bush had to fight Osama, Bush got bad intell about Iraq from 5 different intelligent agencies, Sadamm dared us to take him out - we did.

Were there bad decision - yes.
Did Harry Reid call Bush an idiot and said the war is lost - yes.
Did every lefty condemn Bush daily with ignorant, appalling insults- yes.
Did lefties consider it patriotic and fabulous to oppose President Bush - yes.
Did lefties say it was racist and unpatriotic to oppose Obama - yes.
Did every lefty complain about how the coarseness of politics changed with Obama - yes.
Are those lefties idiots and mentally deficient in memory - yes.

Nacho. You are missing the larger picture. Only about 13% of the tax cuts have gone to wage growth and the Labor force. The vast majority had gone to stock buy backs. The economy seems to be doing good, but our national debt is 21 trillion. Of course if we borrow trillions of dollars, it will appear things are going well. Just like if you were to spend 20k on a credit card, it feels great, but not sustainable long term. So I don’t think it’s good to add to the deficit, of most that is going to Wall Street and only 13% going to the labor force.

About half of Americans are invested in the stock market. Stock buy backs increase the price of the stock, the shareholders therefore increase their wealth thus American invested in the market via stocks, mutual funds and pensions are benefitted.
Further, guaranteed public pensions where taxpayers pick up shortfalls benefit by higher stock valuations.
A very narrow anti tax cut view is 13% of workers benefitted from the tax cut.

Defecit is an issue but only growth will help solve that since we are not serious about reigning in spending.

Stock buy backs overwhelmingly go the very rich. I don’t think it’s a a good trade off for raising our national debt. If business invested that money, then it will help grow GDP, but buy backs are just a hand out to those who own the most stock.

I have a question for those who believe trade wars / Tariffs are effective ? Work forward from 1929 to 2018. There’s no such thing a free trade / fair trade. We’re going to magically create millions of jobs. Let’s say that Apple move manufacturing back to the United States who will pay $9000.00 for an iPhone? Automation in the coming years are going to eliminate millions of jobs. It’s all about stockholder dividends maximizing profit. Nothing personal unless your replacement is a robot.

Exactly!

Remember that if the Economy gets better

Tariffs are the best things he’s done so far

Not for my US manufacturing customers. They are already considering layoffs.

Customers are considering lay offs? Lmao and your trying to lecture me on the economy. Good! We can pay more if that means we support jobs in our country that provide a good wage, and the overall production of our nation. The best thing for American workers is protectionism. Don’t support shitty jobs for foreigners support good jobs for our own.

LiddleTrump, when the economy tanks, remember it always tanks.

The economy will always crash or stumble, and since Trump has gotten the economy to do pretty well recently, it will have to start tanking. Something will aways happen, whether or not Trump signs anything messing with Tariffs.

FP, if you knew the folks who were facing layoffs, you’d rethink your position.

You have no evidence, So frankly shut up.

I have plenty of evidence from my customers who are laying off employees and not hiring new ones because of these tariffs, so shut up yourself. Your poor attitude does not help the people who are losing their jobs because of Trump’s tariffs, FP.

Maybe you should starting excepting cash then food stamps

Letting China overtake us economically, because stopping our companies from moving over seas is socialist and hurts “muh free market”. Free trade only helps the rich they get cheap labor, as a result we get less labor and are dependent on labor from third world countries. What’s the point of benefiting business if they move overseas? Keep them here in America even if labor costs go up, we need to learn to be dependent on ourselves and work on becoming an industrial power again.

Deflection from the deacon of the church of trump.

More governmment revenue equals more progressive government programs.
We all share the burden equally in higher prices and which drives more tax revenue. What is so bad about that?
Is that not the goal for progressives - more progressive programs?
Why would you turn down a funding source for an education based progressive program?
It is a lefty panacea.

Is this your only setting? Because it's not impressive.

Why not?
At it's base it is progressive ideology.
Increase revenue via taxation, increase union membership with more jobs, increase tax base with jobs, increase progressive funding as a result of union jobs and voila - free college for all.
Bern baby Bern.

Like everything, Trump plays the long game and he is lambasted for not conforming immediately.
Let him use intimidation as his negotiation strategy, it worked wh whe was CEO of Trump and it works as CEO of America.
Hate the style, but respect the results.
Anything less is lefty whining.

It also means foreign countries STOP buying american. Look at where America first first originated from and how it lead to the great depression

Yep. This will be passed on to consumers. And products will be over priced on the global market. It’s idiotic. The Republican Party is dead.

The great depression was caused by a few factors. The Smoot Hawley Tariff was only one of around 5 major causes. Also, the tariff was an attempt to recover from the stumble of the stock market crash and the dust bowl and was supposed to protect American businesses after they started failing.

You are an idiot. It’s supply and demand. American resources are already used to the max. America will never be able to meet the demand, so businesses will still have to buy from over seas, but will now have a tariff, which will be passed onto consumers. It’s bad for Americans.

American resources aren’t being used to the max. You’re being ignorant.

Steele and aluminum plants have no problem selling what they can make. I understand that when gas prices go up, there is an higher price profit margin which allows for more domestic drilling. Let’s be clear, His tariff is just an artificial tax on consumers to “hopefully” lead to more Steele and aluminum plants. Corporations have already got tax breaks, which aren’t going to wages, but investor buy backs, so I won’t hold my breath that this will create more job, or raise existing wages. More likely it will cut into the profit margin of local businesses that use Aluminum or Steele. But they can always just make the product overseas to avoid this tariff. This is government picking winners and losers, and a game in which I have to pay for nothing.

^this

And issues like this are exactly why I switched from Republican to Libertarian. Philosophical consistency is important.

When we became populist

Gunfighter, me too. Populism is a cancer on the Republican Party. There are many things that are popular, but what we need is someone who is willing to fight for what is right, not just what is popular. These terrible tariffs, which will hurt our manufacturers and our economy, are one of the primary reasons I absolutely refused to vote for Donald Trump, and why I will not vote for him in 2020.

No, you neocons are a cancer on the Republican Party. That’s why Romney and McCain lost. Trump won with his populist message. Be grateful.

I don’t even know what a neocon is. I’m someone who believes in freedom. With Trump heading the GOP, that leaves the Libertarian party as the only party that stands for individual and economic freedom.

Good riddance then. You can join Jeb Bush and his guacamole in the irrelevant loser bowl.

With attitudes like that towards people you disagree with, you’ll do a good job of shrinking the GOO. So keep it up! The Libertarian party appreciates everyone you kick out of the GOP.

*GOP, although GOO might be more currently accurate.

Really? Because it seems like we’ve only grown. Sure, we’ll lose some undesirables but you’re being replaced with hard working blue collar workers who are more patriotic and valuable anyway.

The libertarian party will never be relevant. It will always be on the fringe and your vote will always be wasted. The that’s your problem, not mine.

Like I said, keep kicking people out of the party that don’t agree with you. Good way to not be a big tent party. You’re doing great for us, so keep it up! I appreciate your efforts.

The nature of a political party is that we agree on key issues. You’d rather see America get raped by foreigners in trade and immigration. Why would I want you by my side?

I’m just glad that you do such a great job of using insults and hyperbole as opposed to economic and political theory to make your points. You keep that up! Trump would be proud 👍

We won, you lost. Clearly we’re doing something right after McCain and Romney’s embarrassing defeats.

Hey, then you shouldn’t have anything to worry about. Keep up the good work!

You won because you ran the most democrat oriented GOP campaign of the past 30 years.

...mmm yeah, yeah....that and you ran against Satan

And Satan’s campaign colluded with the Democratic Party to give a big FUCK YOU to the millions of people who wanted more lip service for their self-proclaimed socialist wonder

We ran against someone who was potentially going to be the first woman president. Didn’t you guys claim hat Romney and McCain lost because of the “first black president” effect?

“woman”

There’s no proof of that

Populism and democracy are overrated. The "majority" rarely knows what's good for them. Abiding by the Constitution is far more important.

Who’s not abiding by the constitution?

The populists and establishment wing (most of it anyways) of the Republican party came out in enough numbers to win the election. That’s all. Pretty straightforward. Keep fighting amongst yourselves though please so that we don’t get another populist.

Right wing populism is the new Republican Party. It’s the future of politics in Europe and the USA. Live with it. The 21st century will be the century of populists.

Trump is only the beginning of many Trumpians to come.

Daniel was right though- populists may not be enough of a vote all by themselves. You shouldn’t alienate other portions of your party if you want to win elections. You didn’t win the last election with only populist votes. A “big tent”, as Daniel said, is a better strategy for winning

But we make the difference in elections. Parties will need our support to win.

Also, he said he’s leaving the party. He alienated himself with his stupid positions. I’m sure the libertarians will welcome the membership. They’ll now have 15 members instead of 14.

At least I’m able to defend my positions without resorting to hyperbole and insults.

Establishment gop btfo! Let’s get the youth, and blue collar workers, small business owners, veterans, elderly, students instead. There draconian economic policy are what’s keeping the republicans from winning every election. The future is nationalist populism! Conservatism has failed! We are the new generation that will reverse what conservative and liberal policies have done to America. The post-modern, multi-cultural, global world you have created must be destroyed. We are losing the identity of our nations, our morals, our traditions, and fundamental reasons for life. It is your generations ‘conservatism’ which has brought us the decline of Christianity, the destruction of the nuclear family, the disappearance of our manufacturing, a non white nation for our children to inherit, and a immoral nihilistic toxic culture that plagues our nation and our youth.

We oppose you to save our countries

Tariffs cost American jobs. Period.

Wrong! Are your parents disappointed?

No, but the Americans losing their jobs because of Trump’s tariffs are very disappointed.

Provide some proof

Provide proof that people are disappointed when they lose their jobs? Come on man, who wants to lose his job? Of course it’s disappointing.

Provide proof that people are losing jobs due to Trump’s protectionism.

Our unemployment rate has steadily been going down since Trump got elected so I’m curious to see how you’ll back up that nonsense.

I’m not going to disclose my customers’ names on this site. But all you have to do is a quick google search to find US manufacturers that are struggling because of Trump’s tariffs. Link below:

www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/hurt-by-trumps-tariffs-u-s-companies-plead-for-exemptions/

I love how the same people who think 25% tariffs do not cost jobs think a 25 cent increase in the minimum wage rate would tank the entire economy.

I’ve never heard anyone say min wage increases tank the entire economy. They absolutely hurt the lowest skilled workers though

I’m against the tariffs too

Lmao, they shouldn’t be importing metal.

They may have to lay off workers but we gain jobs in the metal industry that balanced that out. Our total unemployment is going down drastically.

Totally wrong. Cheap foreign metal helps create jobs in the US by helping US manufacturers create more profitable goods. There is very little profit in metal foundries compared to more complex manufacturing. Why would anyone want to trade profitable manufacturing for unprofitable manufacturing!?! I guess losing money is part of “the art of the deal.” Maybe that’s why so many Trump businesses have gone bankrupt.

You claim that we’re losing, yet unemployment is going down. The facts aren’t on your side.

There are far more jobs in industries that rely on metal that will be negatively impacted than will ever be created by increasing domestic metal production. Bush imposed steel tariffs in 2002 and they failed miserably.

www.politico.com/story/2018/03/07/steel-tariffs-trump-bush-391426

Why is unemployment going down then?

Either way, i would prefer to use American goods and lose some manufacturing jobs than be reliant on foreign slave labor. You guys only care about money it seems. Very sad.

Carcano,

1) The tariffs just went into effect today.

2) The unemployment rate has been steadily declining for years.

1. No they didn’t. He just recently removed some exceptions to the tariffs. The tariffs have been around for a long time.

2. No it hasn’t. Trump caused a drastic decrease, especially in the Black community.

It must be nice to believe in fake evidence to support your own world view.

He announced the tariffs in March. They went into effect today.

No, the tariffs were already implemented on countries like China. Trump just recently added Mexico and some European countries to the list.

I don’t know where you are getting your info on unemployment but you’re completely wrong.

Here is actual info from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

Trump added Mexico, Canada, and all of the EU. We get FAR more metals from these countries than from China.

And do you see it spiking from Trump’s protectionism?

Nothing happens overnight.

Good. We should be getting our metals from America. Self sufficiency is the key to a strong nation.

Carcano, The US doesn’t have a lot of metal foundries because they aren’t very profitable compared to more profitable manufacturing. Why would you want to trade profitable business for unprofitable business? Makes absolutely no sense.

When the Great Depression happened, do you know why it was a global catastrophe? Because we all relied on each other economically. By becoming economically self sufficient we can prevent situations like that from happening again, and we can stop fighting wars for trade markets and oil reserves.

It makes sense when you’re becoming economically self sufficient. If our only goal was to make money then our country would be in a very bad position.

It’s more profitably for machines and AI to replace 80% of human jobs. Our companies would make a lot more money. Is that a good idea?

Protectionism CAUSED the Great Depression.

www.dartmouth.edu/~dirwin/Eichengreen-IrwinJEH.pdf

No, it didn’t, lmao. We already went over this in this thread. That’s an idiotic assertion. If anything, protectionism cushioned the depression. The depression was caused by the stock market crash and failures in banking.

That link you just posted is saying that protectionism arose BECAUSE of the depression, not the other way around.

The stock market crash was a symptom, not a cause. At this point I can’t tell if you even serious or if you’re just trolling.

I’m trolling? You’re spreading false idiocy that protectionism caused the Great Depression. Go learn history. I’m not going to waste my time with an ignoramus. Protectionism helped countries out of the depression. It did not cause it. The most protectionist countries, like Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, escaped the depression long before the United States.

When someone resorts to name-calling you know they aren’t winning the argument.

Oh really? Then why couldn’t you refute my point? You’re not winning an argument by repeating lies. Protectionism didn’t cause the depression. It didn’t happen. You’re wrong. Face it. I don’t know what community college taught you that nonsense but you need to unlearn it because it’s fake.

I have a bachelors degree and a masters degree and both are from Ivy League schools.

Now share your education.

Clearly not in anything related to history or economics.

I can do that too. I have a doctorate from Harvard. Beat that low-class swine!

I didn’t know they taught fake information at Ivy League schools. You wasted your money big time.

Given your propensity to revert to name calling I sincerely doubt you have a doctorate or even attended a seminar at Harvard University.

Well you have just about as much reason to believe me as I do to believe you. Sometimes the over-educated lack common sense though, so I’m inclined to believe you.

Protectionism absolutely was a significant cause of the Great Depression, especially for Germany which was already struggling. That’s what led to Hitler taking over. Why would you want to repeat that? Utter foolishness!

So you don’t have a doctorate from Harvard?

Hitler implemented protectionist policies, dipshit.

Protectionism didn’t cause it in the sense that A explicitly caused B more of the addition of the tariff increased the scope of the depression. The overproduction of consumer goods throughout the 20s (which culminated with the crash in 29) could have been comparatively easily alleviated if American goods were able to be exposed to the global market for a more long term period. The tariffs cut off European markets from receiving American goods at a time when supply was significantly out stripping demand. Thus the global economy was restricted from taking in additional overflow.

Donnie you’re wanting to be more like Hitler? I agree that you are just trolling now.

*Carcano, not Donnie

“Hitler did it therefore it’s bad”

There must be a title for that fallacy.

Why? Are you saying he’s a role model for you?

It’s not worth rationalizing with carcano. He’s just trolling.

Tariffs hurt the economy of the nation that imposes them more than they help that nation’s economy. Period. Trump’s tariffs will and already are hurting our economy. Period.

Krannapple, I agree 100%.

Why did Germany get out of the depression in the mid 1930s then?

Right. When you’re wrong and feel like an idiot it must be because I’m trolling.

⬆️Harvard?

Hitler did plenty of good things, especially economically. If you can’t see that then you’re just being willfully ignorant.

And no. I prefer Mussolini as my personal role model.

They really didn’t. The effects of the depression were masked without certainty. But when looking at relative increases in industrial output Germany did not recover especially fast. One of the most cited statistics is the incredible reduction in unemployment. However reduced unemployment can be attributed primarily to both statistics wizardry and Conscription. As of 1935 The Nazis no longer counted both women and Jews into the unemployment statistic. In addition to that the german government instituted conscription which artificially reduced the unemployment statistic.

The people’s quality of life was significantly increased and businesses were doing great. That’s getting out of the depression. That’s what Germany did. Even American companies were running to do business over there. Fanta was invented just because Coca-Cola wanted to participate in the successful German economy.

And conscription isn’t “artificially” lowering the unemployment rate. Those are people taken off the streets who now have a job and a living wage. That’s what matters here.

But it wasn’t. Real wages stagnated for the median german throughout the early and even late 30s.

Yeah, and then they got out of the depression. America didn’t get out of the depression until the late 40s, and Hermany had protectionism. Protectionism, therefore, has either a positive effect or not effect.

It’s not sustainable. Conscripting more soldiers does not lead to Economic growth (expansion maybe but not growth). You can’t just draft your way out of a recession.

But the US also practiced protectionism for 5 years (1930-35). Hypothetically speaking If protectionism were the key difference to economic success and since both Germany and USA were practicing protectionism at the same time, both the USA and Germany should have faced similar recovery paths (in that timeline). But they didn’t. Thus protectionism could not have lead to the difference (and of course the obligatory correlation is not causation)

So we agree that protectionism didn’t hurt or help in the depression. It was neutral and therefore didn’t have economic downsides.

Thank you. Point proven.

The SOH representative Caleb’s update highlights this even more. Mexico will just charge us the same. And the others will likely too. So the only effect of this policy is future alienating allies. This is a bad move

You are spot on. This is already hurting US manufacturers and other US companies. There will be a negative economic ripple effect from these tariffs that will hurt our economy

It works great actually

<Needs citation>

Where’s his citation for rarely working?

Great depression

Look up who first coined America first

GD as an example of failed tariffs?

Hoover coined America first and tried protectionism tarrifs, all it did was stop foreign countries from buying american products and greatly exasperated our problem with a giant surplus of supply across all american industries

The depression wasn’t Hoover’s fault in any way. He was blamed for it by people at the time, but that doesn’t make it true. The depression was worldwide.

Hoover was only hated by the public because he didn’t implement socialist policies in response to the depression.

Bruh. He literally put large tariffs in place. How would that not constitute socialistic protectionism. Rather than pursuing economic freedom he prevented recovery from the depression via artificially raised prices brought about by tariffs.

Protectionism isn’t a socialist policy. You need to know what you’re talking about before you try to debate it.

Protectionism worked very well for Germany. Germany was able to exit the depression long before America. FDR implemented socialist policies and still couldn’t get out of the depression until he had a war economy.

Historically speaking, protectionism has been a tool pushed by left (especially far left) parties as a tool to “liberate” the working class. Protectionism is also most frequently viewed as a step away from economic freedom in exchange for economic authoritarianism (socialism more often then not). They go hand in hand with each other.

Technically correct, but Germany (as a result of protectionism) was highly plagued by rationing of basic products. In addition to that Germany LITERALLY pursued building a welfare state in the 30s to combat depression effects.

Also America didn’t really get “out” of the depression until more or less after the war. Also it’s not really been attributed to a “war economy” it’s much more easily attributed to the business cycle.

And it worked. Your free market didn’t work.

Hahaha the business cycle. Right. It had nothing to do with every factory in America pushing out war goods to give to every other country.

Let’s not forget that Ford was making German vehicles during the war as well, and Coca-Cola was making Fanta over there. The war was the best thing for American companies, especially those who were more loyal to money than to America.

I don’t see how that especially makes sense. The NAZIS responded as socialists and had a semi successful recovery. The USA responded as socialist and had a semi successful recovery.

The war was the best thing for america because the European theater utterly destroyed the industrial output of Britain, Germany, France and to a lesser degree the Soviet Union. That allowed the completely untouched factories in the US to flood the world with American products (which is why the 50s are commonly viewed as being a strong economic time)

The Nazis had a full recovery, and they weren’t socialists. They supported private business, just like America.

That’s why GM manufactured German troop trucks and Ford allowed their plants to be used for German tanks. They were just as loyal to the Germans as they were to the US. Don’t you think they’d be against working with Germany if German tariffs and protectionism hurt businesses? Yet these American companies put their public image on the line to get into the German economy.

The Soviet Union never had an industrial output to begin with. We made most of their vehicles too.

I don’t know about you but Nationalizing business has never been viewed as a “pro-Business” position.

Yet Ford, GM, and CocaCola ran over there like flies on shit.

I’m beginning to question your knowledge on Nazi economics. They actually privatized more than they nationalized, and they didn’t ban guns either.

Just getting back to this. Yes it was world wide but it was rooted in the American economy much like the great recession. It had global effects but was world wide. I also didn't say it was Hoover's fault, but his protectionist tarrifs absoluetly exasperated it.

Germany was able to get out of it because they literally said fuck the world we aren't paying you back this money and take over all these contested resources. Also colonialism

Glad to see you agree that Nazis weren't socilist

You clearly have little understanding of history.

Lmao equal is one of the people in this world I most hate.

Free market cuckservative - everyone who isn’t me is a socialist!

How can you be right wing if your for big government?

If your country has any measure that isn’t completely free market (every country on planet earth) then they have socialist policies!!

It’s a real lacking of political knowledge or common sense

If you honestly expect all countries to follow the same rules to justify free trade then you don't really have free trade principles.

Free trade is an enigma similar to multiculturalism. Let’s just call it free tradism.

On the contrary, free trade is a simple concept. Regulations against trade of any kind is a no-go.

You are talking Fair Trade. Big difference and precisely what Trump is after.

No that isn't what I'm talking about. Fair trade is protectionism.

Uhh he did give tax breaks to the rich (and some but barely any to the not) and they sure hate us alright!

This is a moronic move that will not benefit us or our economy in the slightest. And may Even hurt us if people become unwilling to trade with us

I strongly disagree. Protectionism is how we reverse the loss of manufacturing, blue collar jobs.

1) manufacturing is not and indicator of a good economy.
2) there are many blue collar jobs we don’t have enough people for like trade jobs. Plummer electrician, etc.
3) it doesn’t even do what you want it to do. Now Mexico will just charge us the same amount for their exports. How is it helpful at all?

No, you and your fellow libnazis are the morons.

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He’s not even a lib.

Cato, you’re right on. Tariffs have an overall reduction effect on the GDP of the nation that imposes them. I have several US manufacturing customers that are already looking at potential layoffs because of Trump’s tariffs. These tariffs will only hurt US manufacturing.

Heh? Bot

Lol, nope.

Is it really is that controversial of a statement that you have to try to discredit me by calling me a bot?

It’s not related to the question at all...
how do our allies “freeing their people” have any relation to Tariffs on steel imports?

Especially because those counties listed are already have pretty free people

Its the reason we didnt have tariffs on those countries in the first place it's the reason there are allies in the first place.

These country once were moving the direction of freedom for their people, they are no longer on that road.

The reason we didn’t have tariffs on them is because tariffs don’t work and they are our allies. Neither of those things have changed

That is incorrect, in the short term taffis work as Leverage.

And again, the reason they are our allies is because they were following in our Footsteps in freeing their people. None of these countries are doing that anymore they're heading back to fascist States.

There's a reason why there is no other country on this planet that is comparable to the Free World.

In both short and long term the American consumer will take the hit in the ass with higher prices or in case of farmers a large reduction in their market . Only a Trump supporter who doesn’t read history would believe Tariffs is leverage or any other benefit

Do you realize that a concept like a tariff can be used as leverage regardless of it hurting our economy?

Do you realize it holds ZERO leverage??

Other countries can, will and have just raised their tariffs on us equivalently. There’s no leverage.

You do not understand internal economics nor international economics

Yes, and i understand that a tariff hirts our country. But economics is not the only thing at play here.

IT ADDS NO LEVERAGE IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM

This policy doesn’t achieve that.

Mexican* government and tariffs*. Ugh

We should begin taxing Western Union.

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Good point, Timeout.

No moron, odumbo the narcissist is out of office.

Well name caller Neanderthal , you evidently don’t read Trumpnik tweets, watch his rallies or his screaming media interviews . A one called Amobea can grasp how wrong you are. Troll

This is the only reference I can find for amobea. WTF are you talking about? amobea.deviantart.com/

They failed to address our concerns. Good for Trump.

Your concerns maybe but not an American concern. Tariffs are historically a stupid damaging policy. But what does Trumpnik show he is aware of positive policies or any policy for that matter.

No, he had our security in mind. Good for him.

It’s not “punishing” the American workers. The Europeans didn’t want to play ball and he felt the deal wasn’t in our interest.

We literally get cheaper steel by importing it. I don’t see how consciously choosing to raise the price of steel can be viewed as a benefit in any rational world.

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Everything is about price at the counter if you're the consumer. Do you even economics bro?

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If the company was already providing quality American steel and was still being beaten by the Chinese Corp then the consumers clearly value the cost difference more than the quality difference. Likewise if the felt the needed the 150$ steel then they would not have had the government to mandate companies to only provide that.

You're assuming that the Chinese product is worse which is a gross generalization. Steel made in America isn't inherently at a higher quality than steel made in China. If there is a disparity in quality, let the consumer decide. The government has no business deciding where raw materials or finished products come from.

Equal: the quality of some of the foreign steel becomes problematic

Historically you are totally incorrect . Fact 90% of US aluminum uses in its products comes from outside the country. We couldn’t produce even if we wanted to and especially at the prices we currently get from our global trading partners. This is an isolation move by Trumpnik his weak minded base thinks is great and that he also has no fall back plan when the shit hits the fan and again history predicts it will.

Right on, Black. My manufacturing customers are already seeing problems with these tariffs. If China or some other country wants to sell us underpriced metals, let’s let them! We can then use that as an advantage to make more profitable products. It’s a win for us, and a loss for them. But there is no question that these tariffs will harm our country (and really already are).

Both you guys don’t understand the art of the deal. We all know that tariffs are not free trade. He’s pushing them to the table to rewrite NAFTA. They will move faster now.

Breck, don’t assume we don’t understand an argument just because we don’t agree with it. If in the end, the US has lower tariffs and so do our trading partners, then Trump will get his accolades. But he’s taking a big risk, and there are already casualties. In my opinion, it’s not worth the cost. And if we end up with higher tariffs, it’s going to hurt a lot of Americans and help very few.

We all hate tariffs. Well, in this country anyway. But we have to do something. They’re killing us with tariffs overseas. How do you convince them to stop? Be nice and hope they will be nice too? The Obama plan. Or play hardball. Yes we want free trade, but they don’t want free. They want to screw us while we give them a great deal. So what’s the answer?

But they aren’t killing us with tariffs. Tariffs hurt the economy of the nation that imposes them. If we end up with the Trump steel and aluminum tariffs, it will hurt us. And the craziest thing is Trump’s first play is threats. Is that really how the art of the deal works? Wouldn’t you want to just ask for something before you make a threat? If anything, maybe Trump should rethink his deal making skills.

So, can you sell anything overseas with a 50% tariff? Or do you only try and sell locally? Because for those that would like to sell over there, they’re being killed. I get that when they hit us we have to pay more for our crap and we would like to keep buying cheap crap. Should we just forget about selling overseas?

You do realize that if we stop buying cheap crap from overseas, they will collapse in a matter of days. We are their bread and butter. Right now container ships are sailing west back to china with empty containers.

That art of the deal is all about conning people in real estate deals and doesn’t apply on the world stage .

Breck, there is NO profit in steel! It’s expensive to make, and it pollutes. The profit is in taking steel and making more complex and more expensive goods. We are profiting from using cheap Chinese steel! One of my customers in the oil and gas industry depends on low cost imported steel to make its goods, which it sells to foreign countries at a huge profit, because the US is the best at making those kinds of goods. And your worried that we aren’t making steel!? There is no profit in it! Let’s use their steel and make goods that are actually profitable!!

Daniel, I totally agree with you. They have cheap labor and no pollution controls, so they can make steel cheaper. Great. I’m all for that. I’m not saying let’s make a rule to only buy American steel in America. That’s ludicrous. I’m saying that foreign countries need to stop charging tariffs on us. How do you convince them to open up to free trade? Threats, Sanctions, bombs? Oh, and BlackC has lost his mind. Negotiations belong in the real world. He’s forgotten about the Union negotiations that got him his pension.

I just watched a report on the business channel about high rise construction in Las Vegas. They said that tariffs won’t affect them because there’s way to much money to be made in building high rise casino hotels. So at least one industry won’t be affected. But you’re right that we don’t want any tariffs. From anywhere.

Breck, I think the main place you and I disagree who is harmed more by tariffs: the country that imposes them, or the country that trades with the country that imposes them. I believe that countries that impose tariffs fo far greater harm to themselves than to the countries that trade with them. Yes, I would love it if no countries had tariffs. But I would also love it if the US eliminated all tariffs, even if other countries kept them because every tariff we have hurts our economy more than it helps it.

So wait, all the foreign countries that have huge tariffs against the United States are killing themselves. Is that why they do it? Because they’re trying to ruin their own country? And they don’t listen to their economists that say that having tariffs will ruin them. Did I get that right?

To quote Thomas Babington, “Free trade, one of the greatest blessings which a government can confer on a people, is in almost every country unpopular.”

That was true in 1824, when it was quoted, and is still true today.

Nations have tariffs because their people want them, not because they are good for their economies.

So YES, nations that employ tariffs do much more harm to THEMSELVES, than they do to the nations they trade with.

Breck, to understand this, you have to go back to the Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith. One of the fundamental points of capitalism is that a nation should NOT produce that which it can purchase from another nation at a lower cost. This is a vital part of what makes capitalism work because it allows nations to use their limited capital for only the most efficient production.

Every time a nation employs a tariff, it is shifting from importing what it is less efficient at making to producing what it is less efficient at making. That means that nation will have a net production that is less than if it didn’t employ the tariffs.

So YES YES YES tariffs harm the nation that employs them more than the nations they trade with!

Tariffs result is a smaller GDP - I know you don’t want to shrink our GDP, right?

I absolutely agree with your assessment of how tariffs harm your economy when implemented. So how is it that every other nation is making it work in their favor and if we do it we will kill ourselves? It doesn’t seem to be harming those other countries does it. I’m not saying it won’t harm ours, but it’s certainly working for them. The way I see it, it works for a smaller country against a larger country that can outproduce them. These other countries have declared war on us, economic war, and we don’t seem to know it. You and I read the same books in college and I know exactly why we shouldn’t employ tariffs. It’s weird that every other country didn’t read those same books and it doesn’t seem to be hurting them, and in fact, it seems to only be hurting us. Any thoughts why?

Breck, it IS hurting their economies. Half of the households in China make $1,000 a year. That sucks, and it’s because of protectionism! You open China up to allow free trade of labor and goods, and those folks will earn a lot more money, and their money will go a lot farther because they will be buying the most efficiently produced goods tariff free. Trump is WRONG; China is NOT winning.

Well you could have fooled me. They now have a bigger economy than us and the only reason they’re still mostly poor is they are still recovering from communism. What about Canada or Europe? Why would they kill themselves with Tariffs if they’re so bad for them? Did they not read the same books we read? Or could the books be wrong? Could tariffs work against a larger economy?

Your point is straight out of Trumpnik s non sensical BS

Breck, there are thousands of variables as why one nation may be doing better than another, but this is just simple math.

Tariffs are a way of limiting competition from foreign companies. Competition is what drives economic efficiency. Economic efficiency is what creates wealth. So the more tariffs we employ, the less wealthy we will be.

Let me ask you this question in a different way. Do you think the US steel lobby, that is pushing for these tariffs, has our nation’s best in mind, or their own best in mind?

Every lobbyist group lobbies for what is best for their specific group, not for the nation as a whole.

It works that way in other countries too, which is why they have tariffs.

Breck, I think if you were honest with yourself, and perhaps you already are, that you’d recognize what Trump is selling with steel tariffs is not that tariffs will aid the American economy, but rather that we need to make steel and other things in this country as a matter of national pride.

That’s really the goal of Trump and his supporters - to increase manufacturing as a matter of national pride, even if the cost is our economy.

What you have to decide is which is more important to you: our economy or our pride.

Do you think that is a somewhat accurate perspective?

*or I should say, “even if there is a cost to our economy,” not that it would cost the entire economy (that would be hyperbole, and not my intention).

You can’t eat pride but with Trumpnik it’s all about him and these tariffs are just raw meat to his base who think they will save some jobs they were told.

Daniel, Shouldn’t there be a level playing field with zero tariffs? For everyone? I think you just said yes. Okay then. How do you convince every other country to drop their tariffs? And BlackCdick. We don’t care what you think.

F off

Well Trumpnik gave the rich effectively no more taxes . Jeff Bezos will make $ 386 million off the middle class off Trumpniks tax cut for the rich bill. Trumpnik and family will get 1 billion. He put us middle class into a trillion dollar deficit. Job well done moron Trump . Hope your base enjoys his incompetence and corruption

What are you even attempting to talk about? Haha

It’s in English and you can read tax cut online ( if you can comprehend what you read)

Yes, tax cuts are awesome. The less taxes the better. Your point?

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So what’s the plan when they start imposing more tariffs on us?

They already have Jackwagon, that’s why he’s doing it🤬❗️