Show of HandsShow of Hands

Show Of Hands May 31st, 2018 2:05pm

The Trump administration announced that the European Union, Mexico, and Canada will lose their exemption from the administration's recently imposed tariffs on steel and aluminum imports. Good news?

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Snowflakewisper PURE BLOOD
06/01/18 1:33 pm

Trump is making America FIRST ! Love it !!! Obama was cancerous to the USA.

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kanji401 SoCal gal
06/01/18 4:37 pm

Tariffs will ultimately be passed on to the taxpayers and so tons of things will be more expensive. I don’t think that’s good at all.

ENDTHEFED
06/02/18 10:09 am

Not if u buy american

kanji401 SoCal gal
06/02/18 10:05 pm

Many, many Americans items have imported components.

Renewable Left Libertarian
06/04/18 9:19 pm

American goods become more expensive too.

ENDTHEFED
06/04/18 9:35 pm

A 25% tax on imported steel and aluminum will have a very minor effect on US economy, any economists will tell you this. The only fear is if things get worse

otto Olean, NY
06/01/18 1:07 pm

Tariffs are NOTHING BUT a tax on the consumers who use the tariffed products or good made with them.

While it is true America’s founding and early years was indeed funded by tariffs, this is no rationale for them now. At that time, that was the purpose of them- to raise revenue to fund the government. The difference between then and now are 2-fold:

1. Today we have the insidious income tax, which was unconstitutional at that time (and still should be. REPEAL XVI !!!)

2. The revenue needed to fund government was far less because at that time the government was only spending money on Constitutional items.

Today, it is a mere egoistic pissing-match item for world leaders to do to one another and results in nothing but restriction on flow of goods and higher prices for everyone (i.e. more taxation).

Lose the tariffs against any country we are not actively at war with.

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DounutHole
06/01/18 12:12 pm

Trump has started this tradewar with the rest of the world and it will cost American Taxpayers more than they received from any tax cut (unless you were in the rich class like Don the Con). When the rest of the world provides him and his family with the consessions he wants (Loans, Copyrights, Trademarks, and Permission for hotels and resorts) to increase the Trump Empire he will back off.

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ENDTHEFED
06/01/18 7:04 am

Our country was founded on tariffs in most countries such as China and all in the EU use them on us

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Henry123 Connecticut
06/02/18 8:36 am

Does change the fact that they do not work as intended. Those other countries are just as stupid for using them.

ENDTHEFED
06/02/18 10:07 am

If others use them and we dont we become at an unfair disadvantage

Henry123 Connecticut
06/02/18 10:16 am

Not true.

Do you call having American consumers paying higher prices for imported goods an advantage?? Or maybe it’s the alienation of our allies that you find so beneficial?

Those are the only two consequences to tariffs.

Henry123 Connecticut
06/02/18 10:23 am

Also the fact that this is just going to cause those countries to increase their tariffs against us! It’s just exacerbating the problem

ENDTHEFED
06/02/18 10:26 am

No it will cause them to be forced to negotiate fair trade deals. Sorry but I think Obama showed us being a pussy and taking bull for other countries doesnt work

Henry123 Connecticut
06/02/18 10:42 am

There’s a difference between being strong and being a fucking idiot. This move was fucking idiotic.

There is no redeeming factor too it no matter how much you feel the need to rationalize it to yourself.

Tariffs hurt the economy and foreign relations while adding nothing positive.

Henry123 Connecticut
06/02/18 10:52 am

Good response. Really shows you know what you’re talking about

ENDTHEFED
06/02/18 10:54 am

Tariffs add nothing positive? They add tax revenue and put American made Goods at advantage you clearly don't know what you are talking about

Henry123 Connecticut
06/02/18 11:00 am

They do not increase revenue because other countries just raise their tariffs too. Like Mexico is doing In response. And they don’t Leo our economy they hurt it because most goods are not produced here. Meaning almost all prices will rise. It doesn’t cost the other countries it’s costs the American people. It’s really simple economics.

Radon Parts Unknown
06/02/18 12:25 pm

Love to hear nobodies call a multi-billionaire president an idiot.

Kyle5 TN
05/31/18 10:42 pm

Tariffs are not good news.

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imawench
05/31/18 10:06 pm

Nothing this idiot says is good news.

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Forgetabouit
06/01/18 5:55 am

Unemployment rate matches lowest point in half a century - CNN Moneyapple.news/AMzVGQWVTTC6484EUbzcG5A

nacho1 Logic Land
06/01/18 7:24 am

Dear Reader:
It is bad news because low employment is "fake news".

Trumps polices cannot possibly be working because he is a neophyte, idiot, self aggrandizing moron who only cares about enriching himself and his family and any other view is verboten.
So it must be fake news.

Yours truly:
CNN, MSNBC NYT, Washington Post, etc.

Forgetabouit
06/01/18 7:31 am

I think some people just hate trump as much as the nazi hated the Jews . We are at that hysteria

Forgetabouit
06/01/18 7:32 am

And he is a billionaire and you posting on SOH

DounutHole
06/01/18 12:13 pm

Nacho-with unemployment as low as it is, time for you to get a job and move out from under your mothers apron strings!

nacho1 Logic Land
06/01/18 12:25 pm

I am part of the hated 1.5% so I don't need any advice on succeeding in life thanks.

ccc1 Georgia
05/31/18 9:25 pm

I think it’s time they realized that the trading arena is not even and threatening us won’t work. The inexperienced whippersnapper to the north definitely needs to learn this

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Wizzobutter
05/31/18 7:57 pm

As wrong as I feel his tariffs are, there should not be exceptions for some nations.

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CLT704
05/31/18 7:37 pm

Trump is a television personality and an entertainer by trade. Everything he does is for the spectacle. His tariff policy is total nonsense and keeps changing weekly. It's especially stupid considering he has signed bills deregulating Wall Street and gave a massive tax break to the rich all while soaring gas prices will ruin the "middle class" tax cut he promised. The man is a fraud. But then again, so is the entirety of conservative ideology.

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nacho1 Logic Land
05/31/18 9:07 pm

A "fraud" that was embraced by the global elite while they privately disrespected him, made him rich and increased his brand awareness.
I can live with that guy as President.

He beat an equally corrupt, unstable, mysoginsitic, sexist candidate - all things being equal - the voters preferred Trump.

The glass ceiling can wait for Niki Haley... until the left denigrates a first generation legal immigrant of color, Governor and UN Ambassador as unqualified or an Uncle Tom.
Bet on it.

Dufur30 Oregonian
05/31/18 11:22 pm

All his policies are great for the rich. The tax breaks middle class people get is worthless, after you take into account the rising cost of living; gas prices, cost of cars will go up. There will be an economic recession in about 2 years, maybe less. Like trump has said in the past, the 2008 recession was great for him. The rich will be able to buy more houses for cheap, increasing there share of real estate, and then getting great return on rent over the next decade. Just prepare yourself. Save money, so you can be more agile when shit gets tough. Don’t buy a house now at all time highs. I would be very conservative, given our national debt; and they haven’t even cut spending much, like social security which will affect and trickle out to hurt all middle class.

nacho1 Logic Land
06/01/18 7:19 am

"All his policies are great for the rich" and then you talk about tax cuts for the middle class but qualify because in the hypothetical recession that is looming they won't be enough.
So tax cuts are no good because they were not big enough?
I thought the tax cuts were too much and the "worst bill in legislative history" - now they were not big enough?

I guess low unemployment, historically low unemployment for blacks, higher wages are good good policies for the rich but are they not good polices for everyone?
Or are all Americans better off with high unemployment and low wages?

Ask Pocahontas about flipping houses in a recession - she did as Trump suggested and is yet another lefty multi millionaire champion of the poor. Funny how the left hates the the rich except the lefty rich - they are the good rich.

Dufur30 Oregonian
06/01/18 5:44 pm

For the middle class the tax cuts were not worth it. What I mean but this, is we significantly added to the debt, and most of that went to the rich. So as far as the middle class is concerned, wages have not increased significantly, and the cost of living is going up. And the debt is over 21 trillion, and the dollar keeps being devalued. It was a terrible deal for the middle class.

nacho1 Logic Land
06/02/18 8:08 am

Trump cuts taxes for 80% of people, companies paid bonuses, the economy is humming, unemployment is historically low and wages are up and all that indicates a poor policy decision by Trump.
Now that is left leaning logic on display.

CLT704
06/02/18 6:36 pm

Not most companies. I saw no bonus aside from the one I got three years ago. Trumps middle class tax cut has basically been erased by soaring gas prices. Trump deserves some credit for the current state of the economy but so does President Obama by that logic.

nacho1 Logic Land
06/03/18 7:51 am

The tax cut has been erased by the gas prices.
I did not get a bonus.
Obama deserves credit for the economy.

Will the whining ever cease?

CLT704
06/03/18 12:54 pm

I'm not "whining". You're the one who started trying to defend Trump. I am correcting your narrow view. Trump is not the sole reason the economy is doing well at the moment, just as he won't be totally to blame when it corrects again, as it always does. His tax bill was a giveaway to the rich that blows adds more than Obama ever did, to the debt. I'm willing to see Obama flaws, I wish you would do the same with Trump.

nacho1 Logic Land
06/03/18 2:18 pm

Millions of Americans got a tax cut - gas prices are up.
Many companies paid a bonus - yours did not so the bonus was no good.
That is a whining.

I don't have to defemd a tax cut - the very idea that more taxes are good is what seperates the left from the right.

CLT704
06/03/18 6:03 pm

The left believes in taxation and spending that helps all, the right believes in no taxation and LOTS of spending to help the rich this creating the huge debt we have. Bill Clinton paid down the debt Bush, blew a hole in it.

CLT704
06/04/18 6:04 am

So then why did he cut taxes? He put two wars on a credit card. In the past we had a war tax that actually paid for the war. Nowadays, conservatives spend huge amounts of money and then they cut taxes and call it "fiscally responsible".

nacho1 Logic Land
06/04/18 7:18 am

I do think any political party is fiscally responsible.

How come we are not allowed to bring up Obama or it is whataboutism but Bush is still fair game?

You want to relitigate the Bush 10years ago fine - shirt story - Clinton let Osama go while he was get blown in the Oval, Osama's savages attacked, Bush had to fight Osama, Bush got bad intell about Iraq from 5 different intelligent agencies, Sadamm dared us to take him out - we did.

Were there bad decision - yes.
Did Harry Reid call Bush an idiot and said the war is lost - yes.
Did every lefty condemn Bush daily with ignorant, appalling insults- yes.
Did lefties consider it patriotic and fabulous to oppose President Bush - yes.
Did lefties say it was racist and unpatriotic to oppose Obama - yes.
Did every lefty complain about how the coarseness of politics changed with Obama - yes.
Are those lefties idiots and mentally deficient in memory - yes.

Dufur30 Oregonian
06/05/18 11:42 am

Nacho. You are missing the larger picture. Only about 13% of the tax cuts have gone to wage growth and the Labor force. The vast majority had gone to stock buy backs. The economy seems to be doing good, but our national debt is 21 trillion. Of course if we borrow trillions of dollars, it will appear things are going well. Just like if you were to spend 20k on a credit card, it feels great, but not sustainable long term. So I don’t think it’s good to add to the deficit, of most that is going to Wall Street and only 13% going to the labor force.

nacho1 Logic Land
06/05/18 11:49 am

About half of Americans are invested in the stock market. Stock buy backs increase the price of the stock, the shareholders therefore increase their wealth thus American invested in the market via stocks, mutual funds and pensions are benefitted.
Further, guaranteed public pensions where taxpayers pick up shortfalls benefit by higher stock valuations.
A very narrow anti tax cut view is 13% of workers benefitted from the tax cut.

Defecit is an issue but only growth will help solve that since we are not serious about reigning in spending.

Dufur30 Oregonian
06/07/18 9:47 am

Stock buy backs overwhelmingly go the very rich. I don’t think it’s a a good trade off for raising our national debt. If business invested that money, then it will help grow GDP, but buy backs are just a hand out to those who own the most stock.

leader77 California
05/31/18 6:24 pm

Trump is just trying to scare them.

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mstt
05/31/18 3:04 pm

To liberals free trade means other countries are free to put tariffs on our products.

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Wyoming4178 Selma Indiana
05/31/18 8:28 pm

I have a question for those who believe trade wars / Tariffs are effective ? Work forward from 1929 to 2018. There’s no such thing a free trade / fair trade. We’re going to magically create millions of jobs. Let’s say that Apple move manufacturing back to the United States who will pay $9000.00 for an iPhone? Automation in the coming years are going to eliminate millions of jobs. It’s all about stockholder dividends maximizing profit. Nothing personal unless your replacement is a robot.

otisfuzz Georgia
05/31/18 2:59 pm

Already causing steel prices to rise. Got multiple quotes to replace dock plates. Both companies I deal with warned me their passing the costs on to us. They’re still not buying American either. So higher costs and still being imported.

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mstt
05/31/18 2:32 pm

Yes, this will force fair trade.

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liddleTrump trump is liddle
05/31/18 2:24 pm

Trump supporters, when the economy tanks, remember you supported this move.

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Forgetabouit
05/31/18 4:21 pm

Remember that if the Economy gets better

FloridaPopulist Nationalist Right
05/31/18 6:54 pm

Tariffs are the best things he’s done so far

DanielWebb
05/31/18 6:55 pm

Not for my US manufacturing customers. They are already considering layoffs.

FloridaPopulist Nationalist Right
05/31/18 7:00 pm

Customers are considering lay offs? Lmao and your trying to lecture me on the economy. Good! We can pay more if that means we support jobs in our country that provide a good wage, and the overall production of our nation. The best thing for American workers is protectionism. Don’t support shitty jobs for foreigners support good jobs for our own.

ARedHerring Kentucky
06/01/18 4:05 am

LiddleTrump, when the economy tanks, remember it always tanks.

The economy will always crash or stumble, and since Trump has gotten the economy to do pretty well recently, it will have to start tanking. Something will aways happen, whether or not Trump signs anything messing with Tariffs.

DanielWebb
06/01/18 6:33 am

FP, if you knew the folks who were facing layoffs, you’d rethink your position.

FloridaPopulist Nationalist Right
06/01/18 8:39 am

You have no evidence, So frankly shut up.

DanielWebb
06/01/18 12:45 pm

I have plenty of evidence from my customers who are laying off employees and not hiring new ones because of these tariffs, so shut up yourself. Your poor attitude does not help the people who are losing their jobs because of Trump’s tariffs, FP.

Forgetabouit
06/01/18 12:58 pm

Maybe you should starting excepting cash then food stamps

Diknak Ohio
05/31/18 2:03 pm

34% of the people need to take a very basic economics course.

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FloridaPopulist Nationalist Right
05/31/18 6:57 pm

Letting China overtake us economically, because stopping our companies from moving over seas is socialist and hurts “muh free market”. Free trade only helps the rich they get cheap labor, as a result we get less labor and are dependent on labor from third world countries. What’s the point of benefiting business if they move overseas? Keep them here in America even if labor costs go up, we need to learn to be dependent on ourselves and work on becoming an industrial power again.

nacho1 Logic Land
05/31/18 2:03 pm

I think the left should love this.
According to left leaning economists - tarrifs will increase the price of goods to US consumers. Therefore, the government gets more money from the due to the increase in sales tax - the government creates a new revenue stream from the taxpayers and now can fund free college education.

Can you feel the Bern?

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AdamStephens West Virginia
05/31/18 3:29 pm

Deflection from the deacon of the church of trump.

nacho1 Logic Land
05/31/18 3:35 pm

More governmment revenue equals more progressive government programs.
We all share the burden equally in higher prices and which drives more tax revenue. What is so bad about that?
Is that not the goal for progressives - more progressive programs?
Why would you turn down a funding source for an education based progressive program?
It is a lefty panacea.

AdamStephens West Virginia
05/31/18 4:03 pm

Is this your only setting? Because it's not impressive.

nacho1 Logic Land
05/31/18 8:46 pm

Why not?
At it's base it is progressive ideology.
Increase revenue via taxation, increase union membership with more jobs, increase tax base with jobs, increase progressive funding as a result of union jobs and voila - free college for all.
Bern baby Bern.

Like everything, Trump plays the long game and he is lambasted for not conforming immediately.
Let him use intimidation as his negotiation strategy, it worked wh whe was CEO of Trump and it works as CEO of America.
Hate the style, but respect the results.
Anything less is lefty whining.

grantnj
05/31/18 1:51 pm

It means we use American resources! America first 🇺🇸

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mudkip17 United States of Texas
05/31/18 2:12 pm

It also means foreign countries STOP buying american. Look at where America first first originated from and how it lead to the great depression

Dufur30 Oregonian
05/31/18 4:38 pm

Yep. This will be passed on to consumers. And products will be over priced on the global market. It’s idiotic. The Republican Party is dead.

ARedHerring Kentucky
06/01/18 4:15 am

The great depression was caused by a few factors. The Smoot Hawley Tariff was only one of around 5 major causes. Also, the tariff was an attempt to recover from the stumble of the stock market crash and the dust bowl and was supposed to protect American businesses after they started failing.

DanielWebb
05/31/18 1:25 pm

Horrible. These tariffs are worst thing that has come from this administration. Tariffs will do serious economic harm to our country. Trump is DEAD wrong on tariffs. Sad.

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Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 1:18 pm

Good. Use American resources.

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Dufur30 Oregonian
05/31/18 4:45 pm

You are an idiot. It’s supply and demand. American resources are already used to the max. America will never be able to meet the demand, so businesses will still have to buy from over seas, but will now have a tariff, which will be passed onto consumers. It’s bad for Americans.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 4:46 pm

American resources aren’t being used to the max. You’re being ignorant.

Dufur30 Oregonian
05/31/18 6:04 pm

Steele and aluminum plants have no problem selling what they can make. I understand that when gas prices go up, there is an higher price profit margin which allows for more domestic drilling. Let’s be clear, His tariff is just an artificial tax on consumers to “hopefully” lead to more Steele and aluminum plants. Corporations have already got tax breaks, which aren’t going to wages, but investor buy backs, so I won’t hold my breath that this will create more job, or raise existing wages. More likely it will cut into the profit margin of local businesses that use Aluminum or Steele. But they can always just make the product overseas to avoid this tariff. This is government picking winners and losers, and a game in which I have to pay for nothing.

Gunfighter06 Iowa, since 1846
05/31/18 1:02 pm

Trade wars are bad, mkay?

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daverator Connecticut
05/31/18 12:11 pm

Canada should be okay but the other two nah

krannapple
05/31/18 11:41 am

When did Republicans become anti-free trade?

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Gunfighter06 Iowa, since 1846
05/31/18 1:03 pm

And issues like this are exactly why I switched from Republican to Libertarian. Philosophical consistency is important.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 1:18 pm

When we became populist

DanielWebb
05/31/18 1:29 pm

Gunfighter, me too. Populism is a cancer on the Republican Party. There are many things that are popular, but what we need is someone who is willing to fight for what is right, not just what is popular. These terrible tariffs, which will hurt our manufacturers and our economy, are one of the primary reasons I absolutely refused to vote for Donald Trump, and why I will not vote for him in 2020.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 1:30 pm

No, you neocons are a cancer on the Republican Party. That’s why Romney and McCain lost. Trump won with his populist message. Be grateful.

DanielWebb
05/31/18 1:31 pm

I don’t even know what a neocon is. I’m someone who believes in freedom. With Trump heading the GOP, that leaves the Libertarian party as the only party that stands for individual and economic freedom.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 1:33 pm

Good riddance then. You can join Jeb Bush and his guacamole in the irrelevant loser bowl.

DanielWebb
05/31/18 1:34 pm

With attitudes like that towards people you disagree with, you’ll do a good job of shrinking the GOO. So keep it up! The Libertarian party appreciates everyone you kick out of the GOP.

DanielWebb
05/31/18 1:35 pm

*GOP, although GOO might be more currently accurate.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 1:36 pm

Really? Because it seems like we’ve only grown. Sure, we’ll lose some undesirables but you’re being replaced with hard working blue collar workers who are more patriotic and valuable anyway.

The libertarian party will never be relevant. It will always be on the fringe and your vote will always be wasted. The that’s your problem, not mine.

DanielWebb
05/31/18 1:37 pm

Like I said, keep kicking people out of the party that don’t agree with you. Good way to not be a big tent party. You’re doing great for us, so keep it up! I appreciate your efforts.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 1:38 pm

The nature of a political party is that we agree on key issues. You’d rather see America get raped by foreigners in trade and immigration. Why would I want you by my side?

DanielWebb
05/31/18 1:42 pm

I’m just glad that you do such a great job of using insults and hyperbole as opposed to economic and political theory to make your points. You keep that up! Trump would be proud 👍

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 1:47 pm

We won, you lost. Clearly we’re doing something right after McCain and Romney’s embarrassing defeats.

DanielWebb
05/31/18 1:50 pm

Hey, then you shouldn’t have anything to worry about. Keep up the good work!

EquaISideEcon more conservative than u
05/31/18 2:22 pm

You won because you ran the most democrat oriented GOP campaign of the past 30 years.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
05/31/18 2:56 pm

...mmm yeah, yeah....that and you ran against Satan

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
05/31/18 2:58 pm

And Satan’s campaign colluded with the Democratic Party to give a big FUCK YOU to the millions of people who wanted more lip service for their self-proclaimed socialist wonder

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 3:00 pm

We ran against someone who was potentially going to be the first woman president. Didn’t you guys claim hat Romney and McCain lost because of the “first black president” effect?

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
05/31/18 3:07 pm

“woman”

There’s no proof of that

Gunfighter06 Iowa, since 1846
05/31/18 3:31 pm

Populism and democracy are overrated. The "majority" rarely knows what's good for them. Abiding by the Constitution is far more important.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 3:33 pm

Who’s not abiding by the constitution?

NYevo NY
05/31/18 4:34 pm

The populists and establishment wing (most of it anyways) of the Republican party came out in enough numbers to win the election. That’s all. Pretty straightforward. Keep fighting amongst yourselves though please so that we don’t get another populist.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 4:44 pm

Right wing populism is the new Republican Party. It’s the future of politics in Europe and the USA. Live with it. The 21st century will be the century of populists.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 4:45 pm

Trump is only the beginning of many Trumpians to come.

NYevo NY
05/31/18 5:13 pm

Daniel was right though- populists may not be enough of a vote all by themselves. You shouldn’t alienate other portions of your party if you want to win elections. You didn’t win the last election with only populist votes. A “big tent”, as Daniel said, is a better strategy for winning

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 5:25 pm

But we make the difference in elections. Parties will need our support to win.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 5:26 pm

Also, he said he’s leaving the party. He alienated himself with his stupid positions. I’m sure the libertarians will welcome the membership. They’ll now have 15 members instead of 14.

DanielWebb
05/31/18 5:34 pm

At least I’m able to defend my positions without resorting to hyperbole and insults.

FloridaPopulist Nationalist Right
05/31/18 7:12 pm

Establishment gop btfo! Let’s get the youth, and blue collar workers, small business owners, veterans, elderly, students instead. There draconian economic policy are what’s keeping the republicans from winning every election. The future is nationalist populism! Conservatism has failed! We are the new generation that will reverse what conservative and liberal policies have done to America. The post-modern, multi-cultural, global world you have created must be destroyed. We are losing the identity of our nations, our morals, our traditions, and fundamental reasons for life. It is your generations ‘conservatism’ which has brought us the decline of Christianity, the destruction of the nuclear family, the disappearance of our manufacturing, a non white nation for our children to inherit, and a immoral nihilistic toxic culture that plagues our nation and our youth.

We oppose you to save our countries

DanielWebb
05/31/18 7:23 pm

Tariffs cost American jobs. Period.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 7:24 pm

Wrong! Are your parents disappointed?

DanielWebb
05/31/18 7:26 pm

No, but the Americans losing their jobs because of Trump’s tariffs are very disappointed.

DanielWebb
05/31/18 7:34 pm

Provide proof that people are disappointed when they lose their jobs? Come on man, who wants to lose his job? Of course it’s disappointing.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:12 am

Provide proof that people are losing jobs due to Trump’s protectionism.

Our unemployment rate has steadily been going down since Trump got elected so I’m curious to see how you’ll back up that nonsense.

DanielWebb
06/01/18 6:38 am

I’m not going to disclose my customers’ names on this site. But all you have to do is a quick google search to find US manufacturers that are struggling because of Trump’s tariffs. Link below:

www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/hurt-by-trumps-tariffs-u-s-companies-plead-for-exemptions/

krannapple
06/01/18 11:36 am

I love how the same people who think 25% tariffs do not cost jobs think a 25 cent increase in the minimum wage rate would tank the entire economy.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
06/01/18 12:03 pm

I’ve never heard anyone say min wage increases tank the entire economy. They absolutely hurt the lowest skilled workers though

I’m against the tariffs too

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 12:51 pm

Lmao, they shouldn’t be importing metal.

They may have to lay off workers but we gain jobs in the metal industry that balanced that out. Our total unemployment is going down drastically.

DanielWebb
06/01/18 1:05 pm

Totally wrong. Cheap foreign metal helps create jobs in the US by helping US manufacturers create more profitable goods. There is very little profit in metal foundries compared to more complex manufacturing. Why would anyone want to trade profitable manufacturing for unprofitable manufacturing!?! I guess losing money is part of “the art of the deal.” Maybe that’s why so many Trump businesses have gone bankrupt.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:06 pm

You claim that we’re losing, yet unemployment is going down. The facts aren’t on your side.

krannapple
06/01/18 1:07 pm

There are far more jobs in industries that rely on metal that will be negatively impacted than will ever be created by increasing domestic metal production. Bush imposed steel tariffs in 2002 and they failed miserably.

www.politico.com/story/2018/03/07/steel-tariffs-trump-bush-391426

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:08 pm

Why is unemployment going down then?

Either way, i would prefer to use American goods and lose some manufacturing jobs than be reliant on foreign slave labor. You guys only care about money it seems. Very sad.

krannapple
06/01/18 1:08 pm

Carcano,

1) The tariffs just went into effect today.

2) The unemployment rate has been steadily declining for years.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:10 pm

1. No they didn’t. He just recently removed some exceptions to the tariffs. The tariffs have been around for a long time.

2. No it hasn’t. Trump caused a drastic decrease, especially in the Black community.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:10 pm

It must be nice to believe in fake evidence to support your own world view.

krannapple
06/01/18 1:12 pm

He announced the tariffs in March. They went into effect today.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:14 pm

No, the tariffs were already implemented on countries like China. Trump just recently added Mexico and some European countries to the list.

krannapple
06/01/18 1:14 pm

I don’t know where you are getting your info on unemployment but you’re completely wrong.

Here is actual info from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

krannapple
06/01/18 1:15 pm

Trump added Mexico, Canada, and all of the EU. We get FAR more metals from these countries than from China.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:16 pm

And do you see it spiking from Trump’s protectionism?

krannapple
06/01/18 1:16 pm

Nothing happens overnight.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:17 pm

Good. We should be getting our metals from America. Self sufficiency is the key to a strong nation.

DanielWebb
06/01/18 1:17 pm

Carcano, The US doesn’t have a lot of metal foundries because they aren’t very profitable compared to more profitable manufacturing. Why would you want to trade profitable business for unprofitable business? Makes absolutely no sense.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:18 pm

When the Great Depression happened, do you know why it was a global catastrophe? Because we all relied on each other economically. By becoming economically self sufficient we can prevent situations like that from happening again, and we can stop fighting wars for trade markets and oil reserves.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:18 pm

It makes sense when you’re becoming economically self sufficient. If our only goal was to make money then our country would be in a very bad position.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:19 pm

It’s more profitably for machines and AI to replace 80% of human jobs. Our companies would make a lot more money. Is that a good idea?

krannapple
06/01/18 1:20 pm

Protectionism CAUSED the Great Depression.

www.dartmouth.edu/~dirwin/Eichengreen-IrwinJEH.pdf

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:22 pm

No, it didn’t, lmao. We already went over this in this thread. That’s an idiotic assertion. If anything, protectionism cushioned the depression. The depression was caused by the stock market crash and failures in banking.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:23 pm

That link you just posted is saying that protectionism arose BECAUSE of the depression, not the other way around.

krannapple
06/01/18 1:24 pm

The stock market crash was a symptom, not a cause. At this point I can’t tell if you even serious or if you’re just trolling.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:26 pm

I’m trolling? You’re spreading false idiocy that protectionism caused the Great Depression. Go learn history. I’m not going to waste my time with an ignoramus. Protectionism helped countries out of the depression. It did not cause it. The most protectionist countries, like Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, escaped the depression long before the United States.

krannapple
06/01/18 1:27 pm

When someone resorts to name-calling you know they aren’t winning the argument.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:29 pm

Oh really? Then why couldn’t you refute my point? You’re not winning an argument by repeating lies. Protectionism didn’t cause the depression. It didn’t happen. You’re wrong. Face it. I don’t know what community college taught you that nonsense but you need to unlearn it because it’s fake.

krannapple
06/01/18 1:31 pm

I have a bachelors degree and a masters degree and both are from Ivy League schools.

Now share your education.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:32 pm

Clearly not in anything related to history or economics.

I can do that too. I have a doctorate from Harvard. Beat that low-class swine!

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:32 pm

I didn’t know they taught fake information at Ivy League schools. You wasted your money big time.

krannapple
06/01/18 1:34 pm

Given your propensity to revert to name calling I sincerely doubt you have a doctorate or even attended a seminar at Harvard University.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:36 pm

Well you have just about as much reason to believe me as I do to believe you. Sometimes the over-educated lack common sense though, so I’m inclined to believe you.

DanielWebb
06/01/18 1:37 pm

Protectionism absolutely was a significant cause of the Great Depression, especially for Germany which was already struggling. That’s what led to Hitler taking over. Why would you want to repeat that? Utter foolishness!

krannapple
06/01/18 1:37 pm

So you don’t have a doctorate from Harvard?

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:38 pm

Hitler implemented protectionist policies, dipshit.

EquaISideEcon more conservative than u
06/01/18 1:39 pm

Protectionism didn’t cause it in the sense that A explicitly caused B more of the addition of the tariff increased the scope of the depression. The overproduction of consumer goods throughout the 20s (which culminated with the crash in 29) could have been comparatively easily alleviated if American goods were able to be exposed to the global market for a more long term period. The tariffs cut off European markets from receiving American goods at a time when supply was significantly out stripping demand. Thus the global economy was restricted from taking in additional overflow.

DanielWebb
06/01/18 1:40 pm

Donnie you’re wanting to be more like Hitler? I agree that you are just trolling now.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:41 pm

“Hitler did it therefore it’s bad”

There must be a title for that fallacy.

DanielWebb
06/01/18 1:45 pm

Why? Are you saying he’s a role model for you?

krannapple
06/01/18 1:47 pm

It’s not worth rationalizing with carcano. He’s just trolling.

DanielWebb
06/01/18 1:47 pm

Tariffs hurt the economy of the nation that imposes them more than they help that nation’s economy. Period. Trump’s tariffs will and already are hurting our economy. Period.

DanielWebb
06/01/18 1:48 pm

Krannapple, I agree 100%.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:48 pm

Why did Germany get out of the depression in the mid 1930s then?

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:49 pm

Right. When you’re wrong and feel like an idiot it must be because I’m trolling.

krannapple
06/01/18 1:50 pm

⬆️Harvard?

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 1:50 pm

Hitler did plenty of good things, especially economically. If you can’t see that then you’re just being willfully ignorant.

And no. I prefer Mussolini as my personal role model.

EquaISideEcon more conservative than u
06/01/18 1:57 pm

They really didn’t. The effects of the depression were masked without certainty. But when looking at relative increases in industrial output Germany did not recover especially fast. One of the most cited statistics is the incredible reduction in unemployment. However reduced unemployment can be attributed primarily to both statistics wizardry and Conscription. As of 1935 The Nazis no longer counted both women and Jews into the unemployment statistic. In addition to that the german government instituted conscription which artificially reduced the unemployment statistic.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 2:02 pm

The people’s quality of life was significantly increased and businesses were doing great. That’s getting out of the depression. That’s what Germany did. Even American companies were running to do business over there. Fanta was invented just because Coca-Cola wanted to participate in the successful German economy.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 2:03 pm

And conscription isn’t “artificially” lowering the unemployment rate. Those are people taken off the streets who now have a job and a living wage. That’s what matters here.

EquaISideEcon more conservative than u
06/01/18 2:05 pm

But it wasn’t. Real wages stagnated for the median german throughout the early and even late 30s.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 2:06 pm

Yeah, and then they got out of the depression. America didn’t get out of the depression until the late 40s, and Hermany had protectionism. Protectionism, therefore, has either a positive effect or not effect.

EquaISideEcon more conservative than u
06/01/18 2:06 pm

It’s not sustainable. Conscripting more soldiers does not lead to Economic growth (expansion maybe but not growth). You can’t just draft your way out of a recession.

EquaISideEcon more conservative than u
06/01/18 2:11 pm

But the US also practiced protectionism for 5 years (1930-35). Hypothetically speaking If protectionism were the key difference to economic success and since both Germany and USA were practicing protectionism at the same time, both the USA and Germany should have faced similar recovery paths (in that timeline). But they didn’t. Thus protectionism could not have lead to the difference (and of course the obligatory correlation is not causation)

Carcano Matthew 10 34
06/01/18 2:41 pm

So we agree that protectionism didn’t hurt or help in the depression. It was neutral and therefore didn’t have economic downsides.

Thank you. Point proven.

Henry123 Connecticut
05/31/18 10:55 am

Tariffs do not work the way they are supposed to. This is a bad move.

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Henry123 Connecticut
05/31/18 10:59 am

The SOH representative Caleb’s update highlights this even more. Mexico will just charge us the same. And the others will likely too. So the only effect of this policy is future alienating allies. This is a bad move

DanielWebb
05/31/18 1:30 pm

You are spot on. This is already hurting US manufacturers and other US companies. There will be a negative economic ripple effect from these tariffs that will hurt our economy

McGoona
05/31/18 10:47 am

Hurts the economy at large

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Spiritof76 USA 1776
05/31/18 10:21 am

No. Protectionism rarely works.

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Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 1:19 pm

It works great actually

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 1:31 pm

Where’s his citation for rarely working?

mudkip17 United States of Texas
05/31/18 2:13 pm

Look up who first coined America first

mudkip17 United States of Texas
05/31/18 2:18 pm

Hoover coined America first and tried protectionism tarrifs, all it did was stop foreign countries from buying american products and greatly exasperated our problem with a giant surplus of supply across all american industries

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 2:28 pm

The depression wasn’t Hoover’s fault in any way. He was blamed for it by people at the time, but that doesn’t make it true. The depression was worldwide.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 2:28 pm

Hoover was only hated by the public because he didn’t implement socialist policies in response to the depression.

EquaISideEcon more conservative than u
05/31/18 2:31 pm

Bruh. He literally put large tariffs in place. How would that not constitute socialistic protectionism. Rather than pursuing economic freedom he prevented recovery from the depression via artificially raised prices brought about by tariffs.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 2:32 pm

Protectionism isn’t a socialist policy. You need to know what you’re talking about before you try to debate it.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 2:33 pm

Protectionism worked very well for Germany. Germany was able to exit the depression long before America. FDR implemented socialist policies and still couldn’t get out of the depression until he had a war economy.

EquaISideEcon more conservative than u
05/31/18 2:37 pm

Historically speaking, protectionism has been a tool pushed by left (especially far left) parties as a tool to “liberate” the working class. Protectionism is also most frequently viewed as a step away from economic freedom in exchange for economic authoritarianism (socialism more often then not). They go hand in hand with each other.

EquaISideEcon more conservative than u
05/31/18 2:42 pm

Technically correct, but Germany (as a result of protectionism) was highly plagued by rationing of basic products. In addition to that Germany LITERALLY pursued building a welfare state in the 30s to combat depression effects.

EquaISideEcon more conservative than u
05/31/18 2:44 pm

Also America didn’t really get “out” of the depression until more or less after the war. Also it’s not really been attributed to a “war economy” it’s much more easily attributed to the business cycle.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 2:45 pm

And it worked. Your free market didn’t work.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 2:49 pm

Hahaha the business cycle. Right. It had nothing to do with every factory in America pushing out war goods to give to every other country.

Let’s not forget that Ford was making German vehicles during the war as well, and Coca-Cola was making Fanta over there. The war was the best thing for American companies, especially those who were more loyal to money than to America.

EquaISideEcon more conservative than u
05/31/18 2:53 pm

I don’t see how that especially makes sense. The NAZIS responded as socialists and had a semi successful recovery. The USA responded as socialist and had a semi successful recovery.

EquaISideEcon more conservative than u
05/31/18 2:56 pm

The war was the best thing for america because the European theater utterly destroyed the industrial output of Britain, Germany, France and to a lesser degree the Soviet Union. That allowed the completely untouched factories in the US to flood the world with American products (which is why the 50s are commonly viewed as being a strong economic time)

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 2:56 pm

The Nazis had a full recovery, and they weren’t socialists. They supported private business, just like America.

That’s why GM manufactured German troop trucks and Ford allowed their plants to be used for German tanks. They were just as loyal to the Germans as they were to the US. Don’t you think they’d be against working with Germany if German tariffs and protectionism hurt businesses? Yet these American companies put their public image on the line to get into the German economy.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 2:57 pm

The Soviet Union never had an industrial output to begin with. We made most of their vehicles too.

EquaISideEcon more conservative than u
05/31/18 2:59 pm

I don’t know about you but Nationalizing business has never been viewed as a “pro-Business” position.

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 3:01 pm

Yet Ford, GM, and CocaCola ran over there like flies on shit.

I’m beginning to question your knowledge on Nazi economics. They actually privatized more than they nationalized, and they didn’t ban guns either.

mudkip17 United States of Texas
05/31/18 3:08 pm

Just getting back to this. Yes it was world wide but it was rooted in the American economy much like the great recession. It had global effects but was world wide. I also didn't say it was Hoover's fault, but his protectionist tarrifs absoluetly exasperated it.

mudkip17 United States of Texas
05/31/18 3:10 pm

Germany was able to get out of it because they literally said fuck the world we aren't paying you back this money and take over all these contested resources. Also colonialism

mudkip17 United States of Texas
05/31/18 3:11 pm

Glad to see you agree that Nazis weren't socilist

Carcano Matthew 10 34
05/31/18 3:21 pm

You clearly have little understanding of history.

FloridaPopulist Nationalist Right
05/31/18 6:53 pm

Lmao equal is one of the people in this world I most hate.

Free market cuckservative - everyone who isn’t me is a socialist!

How can you be right wing if your for big government?

If your country has any measure that isn’t completely free market (every country on planet earth) then they have socialist policies!!

It’s a real lacking of political knowledge or common sense

bnnt Los Angeles
05/31/18 9:51 am

Have any of you actually looked at how these countries “dump” (subsidize) their cheap domestic products and tax the hell out of US made products?

I’m all for no tariffs, free-market, but only if the other side is abiding by the same rules. Right now they’re not. Trump is at least trying to use threats to get these countries to renegotiate this bad deal past administrations got us in.

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rambo088 kansas
05/31/18 10:32 am

If you honestly expect all countries to follow the same rules to justify free trade then you don't really have free trade principles.

Diogenes Not Biden It
05/31/18 11:25 am

Free trade is an enigma similar to multiculturalism. Let’s just call it free tradism.

rambo088 kansas
05/31/18 5:47 pm

On the contrary, free trade is a simple concept. Regulations against trade of any kind is a no-go.

Diogenes Not Biden It
05/31/18 6:40 pm

You are talking Fair Trade. Big difference and precisely what Trump is after.

rambo088 kansas
06/01/18 1:20 am

No that isn't what I'm talking about. Fair trade is protectionism.

FloridaPopulist Nationalist Right
05/31/18 9:43 am

Exactly what needed to be done. Fuck the ‘conservative’ neoliberals this what we the people voted for not tax breaks for the rich and George Bush life. I voted for someone to make the tough decisions, put America first and be hated by everyone else.

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Henry123 Connecticut
05/31/18 11:16 am

Uhh he did give tax breaks to the rich (and some but barely any to the not) and they sure hate us alright!

This is a moronic move that will not benefit us or our economy in the slightest. And may Even hurt us if people become unwilling to trade with us

FloridaPopulist Nationalist Right
05/31/18 6:48 pm

I strongly disagree. Protectionism is how we reverse the loss of manufacturing, blue collar jobs.

Henry123 Connecticut
06/01/18 12:36 am

1) manufacturing is not and indicator of a good economy.
2) there are many blue collar jobs we don’t have enough people for like trade jobs. Plummer electrician, etc.
3) it doesn’t even do what you want it to do. Now Mexico will just charge us the same amount for their exports. How is it helpful at all?

docccyr maine
05/31/18 8:58 am

Such a dumb move, most Canadian steel companies are actually American owned. This does nothing but help Russia and China

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cato Santa Barbara, California
05/31/18 8:17 am

Uhggg...more silly 19th century “solutions.” Trump is s moron.

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chance Sirnotappearinginthisfilm
05/31/18 8:18 am

No, you and your fellow libnazis are the morons.

sstein555
05/31/18 8:33 am

This user is currently being ignored

pollman00
05/31/18 8:52 am

He’s not even a lib.

DanielWebb
05/31/18 9:36 am

Cato, you’re right on. Tariffs have an overall reduction effect on the GDP of the nation that imposes them. I have several US manufacturing customers that are already looking at potential layoffs because of Trump’s tariffs. These tariffs will only hurt US manufacturing.

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
05/31/18 8:15 am

Yes, our allies need to step up their game.
We are the leader of the free world and its about time our allies goverments free their people.

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BlackC
05/31/18 8:17 am

Heh? Bot

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
05/31/18 8:25 am

Is it really is that controversial of a statement that you have to try to discredit me by calling me a bot?

Henry123 Connecticut
05/31/18 10:57 am

It’s not related to the question at all...
how do our allies “freeing their people” have any relation to Tariffs on steel imports?

Especially because those counties listed are already have pretty free people

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
05/31/18 11:01 am

Its the reason we didnt have tariffs on those countries in the first place it's the reason there are allies in the first place.

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
05/31/18 12:03 pm

These country once were moving the direction of freedom for their people, they are no longer on that road.

Henry123 Connecticut
06/01/18 12:44 am

The reason we didn’t have tariffs on them is because tariffs don’t work and they are our allies. Neither of those things have changed

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
06/01/18 4:20 am

That is incorrect, in the short term taffis work as Leverage.

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
06/01/18 5:50 am

And again, the reason they are our allies is because they were following in our Footsteps in freeing their people. None of these countries are doing that anymore they're heading back to fascist States.

There's a reason why there is no other country on this planet that is comparable to the Free World.

BlackC
06/01/18 6:37 am

In both short and long term the American consumer will take the hit in the ass with higher prices or in case of farmers a large reduction in their market . Only a Trump supporter who doesn’t read history would believe Tariffs is leverage or any other benefit

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
06/01/18 11:05 am

Do you realize that a concept like a tariff can be used as leverage regardless of it hurting our economy?

Henry123 Connecticut
06/01/18 11:24 am

Do you realize it holds ZERO leverage??

Other countries can, will and have just raised their tariffs on us equivalently. There’s no leverage.

You do not understand internal economics nor international economics

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
06/01/18 11:27 am

Yes, and i understand that a tariff hirts our country. But economics is not the only thing at play here.

Henry123 Connecticut
06/01/18 11:28 am

IT ADDS NO LEVERAGE IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM

Henry123 Connecticut
05/31/18 12:07 pm

This policy doesn’t achieve that.

Edeatsbeans Texas
05/31/18 8:02 am

Tariffs r gay

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Caleb SOH Editor
05/31/18 8:00 am

UPDATE: "Mexico reiterates its position against protectionist measures that affect and distort international commerce in goods," the Mexicsm government said in a statement. "In response to the tariffs imposed by the United States, Mexico will impose equivalent measures to various products like flat steels (hot and cold foil, including coated and various tubes), lamps, legs and shoulders of pork, sausages and food preparations, apples, grapes, blueberries, various cheeses, among others, up to an amount comparable to the level of affectation" (The administration tarrifs are 25% on steel and 10% on aluminum)

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Caleb SOH Editor
05/31/18 8:05 am

Mexican* government and tariffs*. Ugh

Diogenes Not Biden It
05/31/18 11:27 am

We should begin taxing Western Union.

timeout Boston Strong
05/31/18 7:48 am

This is why our standing in the world is zilch right now.

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kscott516 Revelation 5 6
05/31/18 9:01 am

This user is currently being ignored

DanielWebb
05/31/18 9:37 am

Good point, Timeout.

BlackC
05/31/18 7:45 am

Sheer stupidity and a photo op for The Narcissist and Chief . Will hurt all Americans ; as , proven by history of the damaging affects of tariffs on the US economy .

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chance Sirnotappearinginthisfilm
05/31/18 8:19 am

No moron, odumbo the narcissist is out of office.

BlackC
05/31/18 8:25 am

Well name caller Neanderthal , you evidently don’t read Trumpnik tweets, watch his rallies or his screaming media interviews . A one called Amobea can grasp how wrong you are. Troll

badattitude no place like home
06/01/18 8:43 am

This is the only reference I can find for amobea. WTF are you talking about? amobea.deviantart.com/

Jazzy5 USA
05/31/18 7:43 am

Don’t tariff the US and we won’t tariff you!

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Zod Above Pugetropolis
05/31/18 7:34 am

Well. I wonder who didn’t see THAT coming?

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lj74
05/31/18 7:36 am

They failed to address our concerns. Good for Trump.

BlackC
05/31/18 7:47 am

Your concerns maybe but not an American concern. Tariffs are historically a stupid damaging policy. But what does Trumpnik show he is aware of positive policies or any policy for that matter.

suppressedID destiny is right now
05/31/18 7:22 am

Uh oh! 😦Guess the Donald changed his mind about helping those poor steelworkers.

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lj74
05/31/18 7:37 am

No, he had our security in mind. Good for him.

cowboy Proud Father
05/31/18 7:21 am

No. It is punishing the American people by raising prices.

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lj74
05/31/18 7:39 am

It’s not “punishing” the American workers. The Europeans didn’t want to play ball and he felt the deal wasn’t in our interest.

EquaISideEcon more conservative than u
05/31/18 8:10 am

We literally get cheaper steel by importing it. I don’t see how consciously choosing to raise the price of steel can be viewed as a benefit in any rational world.

kscott516 Revelation 5 6
05/31/18 9:02 am

This user is currently being ignored

rambo088 kansas
05/31/18 10:34 am

Everything is about price at the counter if you're the consumer. Do you even economics bro?

kscott516 Revelation 5 6
05/31/18 11:42 am

This user is currently being ignored

EquaISideEcon more conservative than u
05/31/18 11:44 am

If the company was already providing quality American steel and was still being beaten by the Chinese Corp then the consumers clearly value the cost difference more than the quality difference. Likewise if the felt the needed the 150$ steel then they would not have had the government to mandate companies to only provide that.

rambo088 kansas
05/31/18 5:50 pm

You're assuming that the Chinese product is worse which is a gross generalization. Steel made in America isn't inherently at a higher quality than steel made in China. If there is a disparity in quality, let the consumer decide. The government has no business deciding where raw materials or finished products come from.

lj74
05/31/18 7:48 pm

Equal: the quality of some of the foreign steel becomes problematic

badattitude no place like home
05/31/18 7:14 am

Yes, they better lower the tariffs on our goods or it will get bad for them. We can hurt them a lot more than they can hurt us. They need to learn the definition of free trade

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BlackC
05/31/18 8:22 am

Historically you are totally incorrect . Fact 90% of US aluminum uses in its products comes from outside the country. We couldn’t produce even if we wanted to and especially at the prices we currently get from our global trading partners. This is an isolation move by Trumpnik his weak minded base thinks is great and that he also has no fall back plan when the shit hits the fan and again history predicts it will.

DanielWebb
05/31/18 7:44 pm

Right on, Black. My manufacturing customers are already seeing problems with these tariffs. If China or some other country wants to sell us underpriced metals, let’s let them! We can then use that as an advantage to make more profitable products. It’s a win for us, and a loss for them. But there is no question that these tariffs will harm our country (and really already are).

badattitude no place like home
05/31/18 8:19 pm

Both you guys don’t understand the art of the deal. We all know that tariffs are not free trade. He’s pushing them to the table to rewrite NAFTA. They will move faster now.

DanielWebb
05/31/18 8:25 pm

Breck, don’t assume we don’t understand an argument just because we don’t agree with it. If in the end, the US has lower tariffs and so do our trading partners, then Trump will get his accolades. But he’s taking a big risk, and there are already casualties. In my opinion, it’s not worth the cost. And if we end up with higher tariffs, it’s going to hurt a lot of Americans and help very few.

badattitude no place like home
05/31/18 8:36 pm

We all hate tariffs. Well, in this country anyway. But we have to do something. They’re killing us with tariffs overseas. How do you convince them to stop? Be nice and hope they will be nice too? The Obama plan. Or play hardball. Yes we want free trade, but they don’t want free. They want to screw us while we give them a great deal. So what’s the answer?

DanielWebb
05/31/18 8:41 pm

But they aren’t killing us with tariffs. Tariffs hurt the economy of the nation that imposes them. If we end up with the Trump steel and aluminum tariffs, it will hurt us. And the craziest thing is Trump’s first play is threats. Is that really how the art of the deal works? Wouldn’t you want to just ask for something before you make a threat? If anything, maybe Trump should rethink his deal making skills.

badattitude no place like home
05/31/18 8:49 pm

So, can you sell anything overseas with a 50% tariff? Or do you only try and sell locally? Because for those that would like to sell over there, they’re being killed. I get that when they hit us we have to pay more for our crap and we would like to keep buying cheap crap. Should we just forget about selling overseas?

badattitude no place like home
05/31/18 8:53 pm

You do realize that if we stop buying cheap crap from overseas, they will collapse in a matter of days. We are their bread and butter. Right now container ships are sailing west back to china with empty containers.

BlackC
06/01/18 6:38 am

That art of the deal is all about conning people in real estate deals and doesn’t apply on the world stage .

DanielWebb
06/01/18 6:43 am

Breck, there is NO profit in steel! It’s expensive to make, and it pollutes. The profit is in taking steel and making more complex and more expensive goods. We are profiting from using cheap Chinese steel! One of my customers in the oil and gas industry depends on low cost imported steel to make its goods, which it sells to foreign countries at a huge profit, because the US is the best at making those kinds of goods. And your worried that we aren’t making steel!? There is no profit in it! Let’s use their steel and make goods that are actually profitable!!

badattitude no place like home
06/01/18 7:53 am

Daniel, I totally agree with you. They have cheap labor and no pollution controls, so they can make steel cheaper. Great. I’m all for that. I’m not saying let’s make a rule to only buy American steel in America. That’s ludicrous. I’m saying that foreign countries need to stop charging tariffs on us. How do you convince them to open up to free trade? Threats, Sanctions, bombs? Oh, and BlackC has lost his mind. Negotiations belong in the real world. He’s forgotten about the Union negotiations that got him his pension.

badattitude no place like home
06/01/18 8:40 am

I just watched a report on the business channel about high rise construction in Las Vegas. They said that tariffs won’t affect them because there’s way to much money to be made in building high rise casino hotels. So at least one industry won’t be affected. But you’re right that we don’t want any tariffs. From anywhere.

DanielWebb
06/01/18 1:44 pm

Breck, I think the main place you and I disagree who is harmed more by tariffs: the country that imposes them, or the country that trades with the country that imposes them. I believe that countries that impose tariffs fo far greater harm to themselves than to the countries that trade with them. Yes, I would love it if no countries had tariffs. But I would also love it if the US eliminated all tariffs, even if other countries kept them because every tariff we have hurts our economy more than it helps it.

badattitude no place like home
06/01/18 11:47 pm

So wait, all the foreign countries that have huge tariffs against the United States are killing themselves. Is that why they do it? Because they’re trying to ruin their own country? And they don’t listen to their economists that say that having tariffs will ruin them. Did I get that right?

DanielWebb
06/02/18 5:39 am

To quote Thomas Babington, “Free trade, one of the greatest blessings which a government can confer on a people, is in almost every country unpopular.”

That was true in 1824, when it was quoted, and is still true today.

Nations have tariffs because their people want them, not because they are good for their economies.

So YES, nations that employ tariffs do much more harm to THEMSELVES, than they do to the nations they trade with.

DanielWebb
06/02/18 5:42 am

Breck, to understand this, you have to go back to the Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith. One of the fundamental points of capitalism is that a nation should NOT produce that which it can purchase from another nation at a lower cost. This is a vital part of what makes capitalism work because it allows nations to use their limited capital for only the most efficient production.

DanielWebb
06/02/18 5:44 am

Every time a nation employs a tariff, it is shifting from importing what it is less efficient at making to producing what it is less efficient at making. That means that nation will have a net production that is less than if it didn’t employ the tariffs.

So YES YES YES tariffs harm the nation that employs them more than the nations they trade with!

DanielWebb
06/02/18 5:45 am

Tariffs result is a smaller GDP - I know you don’t want to shrink our GDP, right?

badattitude no place like home
06/02/18 6:30 am

I absolutely agree with your assessment of how tariffs harm your economy when implemented. So how is it that every other nation is making it work in their favor and if we do it we will kill ourselves? It doesn’t seem to be harming those other countries does it. I’m not saying it won’t harm ours, but it’s certainly working for them. The way I see it, it works for a smaller country against a larger country that can outproduce them. These other countries have declared war on us, economic war, and we don’t seem to know it. You and I read the same books in college and I know exactly why we shouldn’t employ tariffs. It’s weird that every other country didn’t read those same books and it doesn’t seem to be hurting them, and in fact, it seems to only be hurting us. Any thoughts why?

DanielWebb
06/02/18 6:40 am

Breck, it IS hurting their economies. Half of the households in China make $1,000 a year. That sucks, and it’s because of protectionism! You open China up to allow free trade of labor and goods, and those folks will earn a lot more money, and their money will go a lot farther because they will be buying the most efficiently produced goods tariff free. Trump is WRONG; China is NOT winning.

badattitude no place like home
06/02/18 8:21 am

Well you could have fooled me. They now have a bigger economy than us and the only reason they’re still mostly poor is they are still recovering from communism. What about Canada or Europe? Why would they kill themselves with Tariffs if they’re so bad for them? Did they not read the same books we read? Or could the books be wrong? Could tariffs work against a larger economy?

BlackC
06/02/18 8:30 am

Your point is straight out of Trumpnik s non sensical BS

DanielWebb
06/02/18 11:29 am

Breck, there are thousands of variables as why one nation may be doing better than another, but this is just simple math.

Tariffs are a way of limiting competition from foreign companies. Competition is what drives economic efficiency. Economic efficiency is what creates wealth. So the more tariffs we employ, the less wealthy we will be.

Let me ask you this question in a different way. Do you think the US steel lobby, that is pushing for these tariffs, has our nation’s best in mind, or their own best in mind?

Every lobbyist group lobbies for what is best for their specific group, not for the nation as a whole.

It works that way in other countries too, which is why they have tariffs.

DanielWebb
06/02/18 11:34 am

Breck, I think if you were honest with yourself, and perhaps you already are, that you’d recognize what Trump is selling with steel tariffs is not that tariffs will aid the American economy, but rather that we need to make steel and other things in this country as a matter of national pride.

That’s really the goal of Trump and his supporters - to increase manufacturing as a matter of national pride, even if the cost is our economy.

What you have to decide is which is more important to you: our economy or our pride.

Do you think that is a somewhat accurate perspective?

DanielWebb
06/02/18 11:36 am

*or I should say, “even if there is a cost to our economy,” not that it would cost the entire economy (that would be hyperbole, and not my intention).

BlackC
06/02/18 1:08 pm

You can’t eat pride but with Trumpnik it’s all about him and these tariffs are just raw meat to his base who think they will save some jobs they were told.

badattitude no place like home
06/02/18 9:36 pm

Daniel, Shouldn’t there be a level playing field with zero tariffs? For everyone? I think you just said yes. Okay then. How do you convince every other country to drop their tariffs? And BlackCdick. We don’t care what you think.

Liberty 4,032,064
05/31/18 7:12 am

No. More taxes is a bad thing, no exceptions.

Reply
BlackC
06/02/18 7:29 pm

Well Trumpnik gave the rich effectively no more taxes . Jeff Bezos will make $ 386 million off the middle class off Trumpniks tax cut for the rich bill. Trumpnik and family will get 1 billion. He put us middle class into a trillion dollar deficit. Job well done moron Trump . Hope your base enjoys his incompetence and corruption

Liberty 4,032,064
06/03/18 6:11 am

What are you even attempting to talk about? Haha

BlackC
06/03/18 8:18 am

It’s in English and you can read tax cut online ( if you can comprehend what you read)

Liberty 4,032,064
06/03/18 9:50 am

Yes, tax cuts are awesome. The less taxes the better. Your point?

Jraysonn Atlanta
05/31/18 7:12 am

I personally don’t see how this is good. I don’t see the point of doing thing unilaterally. I feel like he is isolating us from everyone else...

Reply
Nemacyst No Lives Matter
05/31/18 7:18 am

This user is currently being ignored

Jraysonn Atlanta
05/31/18 7:20 am

So what’s the plan when they start imposing more tariffs on us?

SHIPPY1944 Tn.
05/31/18 7:33 am

They already have Jackwagon, that’s why he’s doing it🤬❗️