Show of HandsShow of Hands

gluxford1 May 27th, 2018 10:17pm

Foreign lobbyists spend millions to try & influence U.S. policy in a way serves the interests of nations like Mexico, Israel, & Saudi Arabia, just to name a few. Many of our politicians accept money from these groups. Should we ban foreign lobbying?

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ladyniner81 I hate people
05/29/18 4:30 pm

Lobbyists are what's ruined America. Greed

DanielWebb
05/27/18 6:53 pm

No, it’s really difficult to stop the flow of money. If our government was only 3% of GDP, as it was just over a century ago, then lobbying would be far less profitable and less problematic as well.

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gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 7:47 pm

“It’s really difficult to stop the flow of money, so we should just let our politicians be bought out by foreign governments without any repercussions whatsoever. Yay for giving up!” - Daniel

gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 7:48 pm

I’m not a defeatist and unlike you, I think our government should be beholden to no one but the American people.

gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 7:51 pm

I’m glad that most people in this world don’t share your “If it’s hard, just give up” mentality because if they did, nothing would ever get done and we would still be a bunch of cave-dwelling barbarians.

DanielWebb
05/27/18 8:48 pm

It has nothing to do with giving up or being defeated. It has to do with what is possible and what is not, and it has to do with how the world works. You can have as many regulations on lobbying that you want. It won’t stop corruption. We have a $4 trillion government. That attracts a lot of corruption. The libertarian viewpoint is to shrink the government and thus shrink corruption as the two are directly correlated.

gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 9:36 pm

“It has nothing to do with giving up or being defeated. It has to do with what is possible and what is not.”
A lot of people thought America’s war for independence against the most powerful empire on the planet was impossible too. Where there’s a will there’s a way. Your defeatism goes against the very spirit that built this country.

gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 9:37 pm

“You can have as many regulations on lobbying that you want. It won’t stop corruption.”
Stop it? No. But it will curtail a great deal of it.

gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 9:43 pm

"The libertarian viewpoint is to shrink the government and thus shrink corruption as the two are directly correlated."
And it's a stupid and flawed viewpoint, just like the libertarian defense of open borders. Shrinking the size of government doesn't curtail human nature. The government will be corrupt no matter what size it is because humans are naturally greedy and power-hungry. Your solution for stopping corruption is just as frivolous as those who believe drastically expanding the size of government is the cure for all societal ills.

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DanielWebb
05/28/18 5:44 am

Glux, it’s a pretty simple concept. If you reduce the size of government, you reduce corruption. Pretty simple.

gluxford1 Arizona
05/28/18 9:06 am

Reducing the size of government is not the magic cure-all for corruption. That’s a pipe dream.

DanielWebb
05/28/18 9:32 am

Libertarians don’t believe in “magic cure all,” as they don’t exist. As long as there are people, here will be problems. But there is a correlation between the size of government and corruption, and reducing the size of government will do more to limit (not end) corruption.

DanielWebb
05/28/18 9:54 am

Ok, then we disagree.

gluxford1 Arizona
05/28/18 10:00 am

Fair enough. ✌🏻

FloridaPopulist Nationalist Right
05/27/18 5:36 pm

Washington DC is Israeli occupied territory

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FloridaPopulist Nationalist Right
05/27/18 5:31 pm

Incoming but Israel is our ally comments!!

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pof over my moms knee
05/27/18 5:38 pm

Israel is our greatest ally. Won the Revolutionary war

gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 6:02 pm

Israel did not exist at the time of the Revolutionary War. Our only allies in that war were the French and a handful of Indian tribes.

jfish82285 Tennessean in Colorado
05/27/18 8:19 pm

Pof, you misspelled “France.”

Glux, I believe the Spanish did assist in a *very* limited role.

pof over my moms knee
05/28/18 8:46 pm

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Putnam

Gluxford1 does not know his own country's history.

gluxford1 Arizona
05/28/18 10:25 pm

We are talking about the nation of Israel, smart ass.

EdtheBeann Texas
05/27/18 5:08 pm

It’s funny how we basically all agree on this, but it will likely never become a law due to the political establishment

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gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 5:18 pm

Depressing, but true.

jfish82285 Tennessean in Colorado
05/27/18 4:40 pm

Of course we should. Money in politics is a major factor in our corrupt politicians who care not for the people.

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evoecon nearest binary system
05/27/18 4:20 pm

Yes....and decentralize the political power from the federal to the local governments.

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HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
05/27/18 4:15 pm

Lobby Dollars
Lobby Gifts
Reduces Scholars
To factual shifts!

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ctskapski NB MD
05/27/18 4:10 pm

Why stop at foreign lobbying?

Ban all lobbying that involves the transferrence of goods, services or funds, and even go so far as to criminalize it as bribery. Domestic or foreign.

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gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 4:18 pm

Sounds good to me!

Diogenes WeThePeople
05/27/18 3:56 pm

Yes. Especially since we're as guilty as these other nations but want to claim ourselves innocent as a Morning Lilly. The US needs to lead again and put America first again.

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gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 4:18 pm

Amen! πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡Έ

pof over my moms knee
05/27/18 3:54 pm

Does Obama's presidency count as foreign lobbying by Kenya?

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phalnx Ohio
05/27/18 3:49 pm

Yes, and we should ban domestic lobbying too. Let our politicians represent their actual voters, rather than their richest donors.

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Casper Deep inthe Heart ofTexas
05/27/18 3:36 pm

So, is there a law against Russians trying to influence our elections?

The law should be clear & consistently applied to all foreign nations & political parties.

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gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 3:39 pm

There aren’t that many strict laws against foreign lobbying and the few laws that we do have on the books are only loosely enforced. This is unfortunate because this practice should be banned outright.

pof over my moms knee
05/27/18 3:26 pm

Israel should be free to lobby us and influence us, they are our greatest ally and we must support them no matter what.

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gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 3:28 pm

No. Just because they are our ally does not mean they should have a voice in our national policies. They should not get a say in how we run and operate our country. That say belongs to Americans and Americans only.

pof over my moms knee
05/27/18 3:31 pm

With the rise of antisemitism, Jews need a voice. ✑

ScenarioNations California
05/27/18 3:32 pm

Hell no. I don't care if they're our ally, our vassal state, or our neighbor, we have no logical reason to agree with any nation 100% of the time on every issue. It is illogical to say that our wellbeing will always align with theirs. The only reason people say that we should always allow Israel but no others is due to religious bias.

ScenarioNations California
05/27/18 3:34 pm

Also American Jews already have a voice. They're over represented in the upper class, whether it be banking or media. They have a right to that. So be it. This just proves they have a voice though.
Foreign Jews don't have a right to a voice in our politics, just as foreign Arabs, Europeans, Africans, and Asians don't have that right.

gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 3:34 pm

This isn’t about anti-Semitism or the Jewish faith. Foreign countries are not entitled to a say, and that includes Israel. Nice try though.

gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 3:35 pm

Well said, ScenarioNations! I agree with everything you just said in those two responses! Wish I could like them about 1 million times over!

pof over my moms knee
05/27/18 3:40 pm

Nice conspiracy theory you got there.

ScenarioNations California
05/27/18 3:42 pm

Nice ad hominem. To actually debunk something you actually have to explain why it's wrong. Why is what I said a "conspiracy theory"?

gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 3:45 pm

Since when do concrete facts qualify as a “conspiracy”?

pof over my moms knee
05/27/18 3:47 pm

Attacks on Jews are going up. Israel needs to have a voice. Maybe it's nice not to live in fear not as a white man.

ScenarioNations California
05/27/18 3:48 pm

Oh I agree that Israel needs a voice. That's why the UN exists. That's why they have their own nations.

American Jews have a right to a voice in our country. Foreign Jews don't have a right to our country, just as we don't have a right to decide the policy of Israel.

gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 3:51 pm

1. Israel does not deserve a voice in our national policy.
2. This is not about anti-Semitism. This is about undue and unjust foreign influence in our government, so quit trying to change the subject.
3. Race has nothing to do with this subject, so quit trying to inject it into conversations where it isn’t relevant.


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pof over my moms knee
05/27/18 3:53 pm

Okay then I guess we should just keep on letting the antisemetic attacks keep going on good thinking guys

gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 3:55 pm

Are you going to start debating honestly or are you going to keep straw manning?

ScenarioNations California
05/27/18 3:56 pm

Your argument is synonymous to:
Black people are being oppressed by hate crimes, therefore we should let Nigerian princes donate money to candidates.

pof over my moms knee
05/27/18 4:02 pm

We already let a Kenyan be president so...

ScenarioNations California
05/27/18 4:05 pm

Nigeria isn't Kenya and there's no evidence of that so try again.

pof over my moms knee
05/27/18 4:12 pm

Kenya is in Africa. Blacks are called African-American. πŸ™„

ScenarioNations California
05/27/18 4:13 pm

Okay? And Jews in Israel are called Jews and Jews in America are called American Jews or Jewish Americans. Why should we let foreign nationals influence our policies?

pof over my moms knee
05/27/18 4:15 pm

Jews in America are still Jews. Stop trolling. Go ask a question about if we support the Jewish American Party in the year 2300

ScenarioNations California
05/27/18 4:18 pm

Hey moron, I support allowing American Jews donate to campaigns, I don't support allowing NON AMERICAN CITIZENS, CITIZENS OF ISRAEL to donate to our elections.

Go read a basic book on basic political philosophy as it seems you don't understand what a citizen is lmfao.

pof over my moms knee
05/27/18 4:22 pm

Ah yes, go directly to insults when you know you're losing. The true sign of an idiot, it matches you well.

See you around kid, if the stress of real life hasn't made you off yourself yet. Personally, I'm not holding my breath.

ScenarioNations California
05/27/18 4:23 pm

Hey moron, you called us antisemitic conspiracy theorists. I guess you lost first according to your own words! Sad! You're not even consistent lmao

pof over my moms knee
05/27/18 4:26 pm

Retard, your babbling is too much. Some people are born without tongues, fingers, or brains, they have no hope of communicating with the world, and you use your gift of communication to call someone names because they want to protect Jews in the US. Go to a children's hospital and understand how lucky you are.

ScenarioNations California
05/27/18 4:28 pm

You want to protect foreign Jews by allowing them to donate to domestic elections?

And obviously other people understand me since people are actually liking my comments you dolt.

pof over my moms knee
05/27/18 4:35 pm

I want to protect Jews in America. Antisemitic attacks are coming. We have a lot to learn.

ScenarioNations California
05/27/18 4:37 pm

I have already stated this so I'll state this again, I'm fine with American Jews donating to campaigns. As long as you're an American citizen, I think it's perfectly fine to donate to campaigns.

pof over my moms knee
05/27/18 4:39 pm

What's wrong with Israelis fighting antisemitism?

ScenarioNations California
05/27/18 4:42 pm

They don't have a right to buy our politicians.

gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 4:49 pm

Foreign interference in American public policy doesn’t equate to fighting anti-Semitism.

pof over my moms knee
05/27/18 4:49 pm

They're not. They're stopping antisemitism.

gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 4:51 pm

No, they are interfering and influencing national policy.

pof over my moms knee
05/27/18 4:57 pm

Donating to candidates isn't the same thing as owning them. There's that conspiratorial thinking again. πŸ™„

gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 4:59 pm

These foreign agents donate to politicians specifically to influence them to steer American public policy in a way that benefits their foreign country and its interests, so yeah, they are buying our politicians.

pof over my moms knee
05/27/18 5:19 pm

Yeah, keep going on about how Israeli Jews donating to politicians to stop antisemitism is some conspiracy. Might want to put your tinfoil hat on, aluminium isn't strong enough for nuts like you.

ScenarioNations California
05/27/18 5:27 pm

It is well known that a disproportionate amount of Jews are in the media sector of the private sector and even most Jews will fully admit that Jews historically have been forced into banking. In Europe this occurred due to Catholics not being allowed to lend money, and due to various restrictive laws this forced the oppressed Jewish poor class into banking in the middle ages. This is well known history 101.

I never once stated that Jews control the Media or the Banks because I don't think American Jews think "how can I help my people today?" No group really thinks like that! The difference is that when Jewish non American people living in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv donate to a campaign, they are doing it to help out the government, likely due to them holding an actual position in that government.

This isn't a conspiracy theory, just as it isn't a conspiracy theory to state that Black Americans are disproportionately in the NBA. Jews tend to be disproportionate in those areas since they..

ScenarioNations California
05/27/18 5:28 pm

..they have a small percentage yet make up a disproportionate amount.

I also love how you're conflating Israeli Jews and American Jews. What difference is there? Well one has a right to influence our elections as they're citizens, and one doesn't as they're not.

pof over my moms knee
05/27/18 5:32 pm

Hi David Duke, say hi to Big Don to me! πŸ™„

FloridaPopulist Nationalist Right
05/27/18 5:35 pm

Pof the Jews do not deserve special privileges in our political process. And they don’t deserve the tag line “greatest ally” either what have they really done that benefits us? Nothing... they just keep meddling in our political system so all the politicians parrot the old lines. “Israel is our greatest ally!” As they stuff their wallets with aipac money

ScenarioNations California
05/27/18 5:40 pm

Who said anything about supporting Iran? I also never said anything untrue so if you wish to actually argue a point, do it. Instead of that you're shouting "wwacist!!"

pof over my moms knee
05/27/18 5:48 pm

You support one or the other. Learn how international relations works.

ScenarioNations California
05/27/18 5:51 pm

No you adolescent man child. I can say this: both suck in different ways and must deal with their issues as grown ups would as we don't support either of them bullying either of them.

How dare you. How dare you pull a George Bush and say "either we slaughter innocent people or you hate the Jews". How immoral is that!

ScenarioNations California
05/27/18 6:07 pm

How about you give me an actual argument for why I'm wrong. Then you'll have that break.

FloridaPopulist Nationalist Right
05/27/18 7:55 pm

How about we leave the Middle East the fuck alone instead?

And we support Saudia Arabia lol there worse then Iran. The only reason the media shits on Iran is because there not in the American sphere of influence, they are in a reemerging Russian sphere of influence

Domino3 Abolish the ATF
05/28/18 7:50 pm

@pof

πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ this is too good.. the sarcasm flew over everyone’s head

ScenarioNations California
05/28/18 8:52 pm

See I would've caught on but I know people who would unironically agree with absolutely everything you said lmao

FloridaPopulist Nationalist Right
05/28/18 11:02 pm

Pof it was obvious sarcasm yet it still angered me.

gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 3:26 pm

Foreign lobbying should absolutely be illegal because they are borderline treasonous. Groups like La Raza, AIPAC, and the Podesta Group should not exist. The politicians who accept money from lobbying groups who advance the interests of foreign nations and foreign nationals should be voted out of office or prosecuted. Our elected officials should be working to advance the interests of American nationals and nobody else. Period.


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gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 3:26 pm

Question for iPad users: Foreign lobbyists spend millions to try & influence U.S. policy in a way serves the interests of nations like Mexico, Israel, & Saudi Arabia, just to name a few. Many of our politicians accept money from these groups. Should we ban foreign lobbying?

Answer 1-Yes
Answer 2- No

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TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
05/27/18 3:22 pm

Ban all lobbying.
Make the consequences swift and harsh.
Maybe immediate removal from office, 10 years in federal prison, a 10 million dollar fine, and never again eligible for public office?

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gluxford1 Arizona
05/27/18 3:26 pm

I like the way you think!