Christians: Matthew 13:50 “And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Hell is _____.
@evoecon , I didn’t want to respond to you in the LONG debate you’re carrying on with orgblu and political, but I did want to talk to you about one thing you said:
“Christ died to allow for souls to live forever in heaven.”
I disagree, and this is a point that a lot of Christians don’t understand.
Christ died to save us from punishment for our sins.
He rose again to give us eternal life. He overcame death, so that we can have eternity.
If He had just died on the cross hadn’t risen from the dead, his actions on the cross would’ve only saved us from Hell, but He rose form the dead to give us eternity in Heaven!
Here’s a great article about the Resurrection:
I understand in a scholarly interpretation what you indicate is true. My response to them was a simplified version. The two actions were foretold and therefore both had to occur. So, to me, the resurrection is the element most beneficial to Christians.
Oh, ok! We’re agreed then—it takes both! Lol
Yes. We may disagree on whether hell exists or not. But, that is a moot issue for Christians.
You’re right about that! Something we don’t have to worry about, for sure! However, I think it does influence whether or not we’re evangelical or not—or to what extent we are.....if we’re not worried that our loved ones will spend eternity in hell, we’d be less likely to make sure we’re witnessing to them, imho.
I can see that... but I did not choose redemption to avoid a hell. I want all people to be redeemed as it restores God and us. I want my family and friends with me to service God for eternity.
EXACTLY! That’s why hubby doesn’t preach hell fire and damnation sermons. If you’re only interested in getting saved as fire insurance, you’re doing it for the wrong reason.
Clearly real because Jesus said so.
EXACTLY. If you don’t believe in hell as a real place, you’re saying Jesus was a liar, imho!
I believe that both heaven and hell are real places.
These are the types of polls that are directed at Christians but most on the thread don't want to hear others with differing ideas. It's basically a "agree with me or else you aren't a real Christian" poll. How do I know? Because it happens to me every time this question is asked.
Can you at least answer what Jesus died on the cross for if there is no eternal damnation?
No thanks. Been there, done that, was called a fake Christian. Besides, you don't really want to know as your mind is closed to anything new and different. This poll was set up to just tell anyone with a differing opinion how wrong they are. I know because you've done that to me in the past a few times.
You took time to comment, so I assume there must be a reason besides to complain about this poll. Do you wish to provide an interpretation of the verse that was posted?
I took the time because I'd like those of you who do this to those of us who disagree could take a look at how you react and be more inclusive with these polls.
As you can see, I’m solely interested in the interpretation of scripture here. I don’t know what people (or myself for that matter) have said to you in the past, but it is common for there to be disagreements in any poll on SOH. In the past, targeted Christian polls have remained largely civil though.
It’s real, but the part about fire is metaphorical. Being a metaphor doesn’t mean it’s not real.
Literalism can be a problem. “If your hand offends you cut it off” can be used to support the practice where some people want to cut their arms or legs off. Remember the woman who blinded herself because she identified as somebody who didn’t have eyes? Recall the DSM codified disorder of people who want to remove their own limbs?
Literalism can lead us to believing that we’re eating Christ’s literal body and drinking His actual blood.
Countless examples can be given where literalism leads to bad ideas and practices. I propose to you that a loving God, one who sent His only begotten son to die so that you might be saved, isn’t going to burn His children in eternal ovens just because they didn’t “accept Christ,” especially when millions never even heard His name or sufficiently understood His doctrine and commandments.
Hell is real..and ETERNAL
Interesting how some Christians will say heaven is real and tangible, but hell isn't.
I would really like to know why Jesus would need to die for our sins if Hell isn’t real, according to those people.
For the same reason. Whether your soul spends eternity in “hell” or your soul is consumed by the same fire which consumes Lucifer, Christ died to allow for souls to live forever in heaven.
But there would be no eternal punishment anyway if Hell doesn’t exist
Hence, I don’t need a hell, when there is no one or nothing to go in it.
So what is this referring to?
Does this verse say, “There is a place where souls will spend eternity being tormented by the fallen angel which has been condemned to be consumed by fire.”? Where in this verse is that?
Where in the Bible does it say the fallen angels get to profit from their rebellion? It doesn’t. In fact, Lucifer will be consumed by fire (check Revelations) as will those who follow him.
I don’t think that answered my question.
First, I ask you to clarify how the verse you quoted establishes a “hell”.
Second, I told you Revelations contains the answer for the reference to fire. Since you are not as sharp as usual tonight, try Revelation, chapter 20, somewhere around verse 11to the end of the chapter. Keep in mind Satan and his fallen angels have already been condemned to the second death, not a metaphor.
Yeah - Revelation 20 tells us that the wicked will be punished every night.
Anything about the “second death”? Or are you just focused on what you want to believe?
Honestly, I’m trying to figure out your position. All who were not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. We know that not everyone is written in the book of life. If that were true, Romans 9:11, John 3:16-17, “depart from me, I never knew you”, John 6:37-42, etc certainly wouldn’t be consistent.
This is the second death, the lake of fire.
I am sorry your are not understanding the lake of fire causes death. Plus, where does Matt 13:50 create eternal torture? You never even tried to answer that question. You gave a single verse and extrapolate a whole belief, eternal torture. Yet, this verse does not define that...
But, you want me to provide a single verse to explain mine belief. Try read Revelations using a translation closer to the Greek.
So you believe everyone goes to Heaven?
How did you get that from a “second death”? Did you mean that question for someone else?
I just don’t understand your interpretation. If Hell is fake and Heaven is real not everyone goes to Heaven, where do those who are not born again go when they die?
If you took the time, you would find the first death and the second death leaves no soul. Fear not the one who can destroy your physical body, but the One who can destroy your soul. If a souls is consumed by the fire, what is left for eternity.
Is there an article or something that explains what you are trying to convey clearer?
Yes. I would say the Greek version of the New Testament, but that is not an article. Plus, I have learned this over years of study.
I don’t know of an article. Why would you believe the fallen angels would get to profit from their rebellion and possess souls? What is so hard to accept the aspect the New Testament refers to the second death several times?
Plus, you have not address how the verse in Matthew establishes a hell.
Maybe it is not your time to understand this.
The end of Matthew 13 is speaking about dividing God’s people from the rest of the world. As it says, His children will go to Heaven. Verse 50 shows us the result of all who aren’t His children. This clearly established Hell along with Revelation 20.
Do you think the bad fish were tormented in the fiery furnace forever? Really.
Why would Revelation call the lake of fire the second death? Because those souls will live an eternal torment for the pleasure of the fallen angels? Wow! And you think my thoughts on no hell being outside the box.
Hell is what everyone deserves and is the punishment for sin. Hell is where there will be eternal punishment. That’s what I have said consistently.
The second death is for the condemned. The condemned will lose eternal life. Hence the weeping and gnashing of teeth. The wicked will know their fate at the time of the separation, the millennium. Right before the White Throne judgement. They will anguish about their second death.
If there is no Hell, what did Jesus die on the cross for in the first place?
Right. We need to be rescued from the effects of sin. The atonement enables a pathway for that.