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political May 27th, 2018 9:32pm

Christians: Matthew 13:50 β€œAnd shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Hell is _____.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/28/18 10:49 am

@evoecon , I didn’t want to respond to you in the LONG debate you’re carrying on with orgblu and political, but I did want to talk to you about one thing you said:

“Christ died to allow for souls to live forever in heaven.”

I disagree, and this is a point that a lot of Christians don’t understand.

Christ died to save us from punishment for our sins.

He rose again to give us eternal life. He overcame death, so that we can have eternity.

If He had just died on the cross hadn’t risen from the dead, his actions on the cross would’ve only saved us from Hell, but He rose form the dead to give us eternity in Heaven!

Here’s a great article about the Resurrection:

www.insight.org/resources/article-library/individual/what-the-resurrection-gives-us

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evoecon nearest binary system
05/28/18 2:42 pm

I understand in a scholarly interpretation what you indicate is true. My response to them was a simplified version. The two actions were foretold and therefore both had to occur. So, to me, the resurrection is the element most beneficial to Christians.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/28/18 2:44 pm

Oh, ok! We’re agreed then—it takes both! Lol

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evoecon nearest binary system
05/28/18 2:46 pm

Yes. We may disagree on whether hell exists or not. But, that is a moot issue for Christians.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/28/18 2:51 pm

You’re right about that! Something we don’t have to worry about, for sure! However, I think it does influence whether or not we’re evangelical or not—or to what extent we are.....if we’re not worried that our loved ones will spend eternity in hell, we’d be less likely to make sure we’re witnessing to them, imho.

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evoecon nearest binary system
05/28/18 2:54 pm

I can see that... but I did not choose redemption to avoid a hell. I want all people to be redeemed as it restores God and us. I want my family and friends with me to service God for eternity.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/28/18 3:24 pm

EXACTLY! That’s why hubby doesn’t preach hell fire and damnation sermons. If you’re only interested in getting saved as fire insurance, you’re doing it for the wrong reason.

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TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
05/27/18 8:13 pm

Clearly real because Jesus said so.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/28/18 10:39 am

EXACTLY. If you don’t believe in hell as a real place, you’re saying Jesus was a liar, imho!

lcamino Florida
05/27/18 4:21 pm

I believe that both heaven and hell are real places.

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Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 3:38 pm

These are the types of polls that are directed at Christians but most on the thread don't want to hear others with differing ideas. It's basically a "agree with me or else you aren't a real Christian" poll. How do I know? Because it happens to me every time this question is asked.

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political Georgia
05/27/18 3:44 pm

Can you at least answer what Jesus died on the cross for if there is no eternal damnation?

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 3:49 pm

No thanks. Been there, done that, was called a fake Christian. Besides, you don't really want to know as your mind is closed to anything new and different. This poll was set up to just tell anyone with a differing opinion how wrong they are. I know because you've done that to me in the past a few times.

political Georgia
05/27/18 3:58 pm

You took time to comment, so I assume there must be a reason besides to complain about this poll. Do you wish to provide an interpretation of the verse that was posted?

Kay41 the Midwest
05/27/18 4:01 pm

I took the time because I'd like those of you who do this to those of us who disagree could take a look at how you react and be more inclusive with these polls.

political Georgia
05/27/18 4:16 pm

As you can see, I’m solely interested in the interpretation of scripture here. I don’t know what people (or myself for that matter) have said to you in the past, but it is common for there to be disagreements in any poll on SOH. In the past, targeted Christian polls have remained largely civil though.

Okie1967 Defend the Police
05/27/18 3:10 pm

It’s real, but the part about fire is metaphorical. Being a metaphor doesn’t mean it’s not real.

Okie1967 Defend the Police
05/27/18 3:19 pm

Literalism can be a problem. “If your hand offends you cut it off” can be used to support the practice where some people want to cut their arms or legs off. Remember the woman who blinded herself because she identified as somebody who didn’t have eyes? Recall the DSM codified disorder of people who want to remove their own limbs?

Literalism can lead us to believing that we’re eating Christ’s literal body and drinking His actual blood.

Okie1967 Defend the Police
05/27/18 3:21 pm

Countless examples can be given where literalism leads to bad ideas and practices. I propose to you that a loving God, one who sent His only begotten son to die so that you might be saved, isn’t going to burn His children in eternal ovens just because they didn’t “accept Christ,” especially when millions never even heard His name or sufficiently understood His doctrine and commandments.

ProudAmerican44 New Joisey
05/27/18 3:06 pm

Hell is real..and ETERNAL

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orgblu10 Shamerica
05/27/18 2:36 pm

Interesting how some Christians will say heaven is real and tangible, but hell isn't.

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political Georgia
05/27/18 2:46 pm

I would really like to know why Jesus would need to die for our sins if Hell isn’t real, according to those people.

evoecon nearest binary system
05/27/18 3:30 pm

For the same reason. Whether your soul spends eternity in “hell” or your soul is consumed by the same fire which consumes Lucifer, Christ died to allow for souls to live forever in heaven.

political Georgia
05/27/18 3:47 pm

But there would be no eternal punishment anyway if Hell doesn’t exist

evoecon nearest binary system
05/27/18 3:51 pm

Hence, I don’t need a hell, when there is no one or nothing to go in it.

political Georgia
05/27/18 3:59 pm

So what is this referring to?

evoecon nearest binary system
05/27/18 4:06 pm

Does this verse say, “There is a place where souls will spend eternity being tormented by the fallen angel which has been condemned to be consumed by fire.”? Where in this verse is that?

Where in the Bible does it say the fallen angels get to profit from their rebellion? It doesn’t. In fact, Lucifer will be consumed by fire (check Revelations) as will those who follow him.

political Georgia
05/27/18 4:11 pm

I don’t think that answered my question.

evoecon nearest binary system
05/27/18 4:19 pm

First, I ask you to clarify how the verse you quoted establishes a “hell”.

Second, I told you Revelations contains the answer for the reference to fire. Since you are not as sharp as usual tonight, try Revelation, chapter 20, somewhere around verse 11to the end of the chapter. Keep in mind Satan and his fallen angels have already been condemned to the second death, not a metaphor.

political Georgia
05/27/18 4:26 pm

Yeah - Revelation 20 tells us that the wicked will be punished every night.

evoecon nearest binary system
05/27/18 4:28 pm

Anything about the “second death”? Or are you just focused on what you want to believe?

political Georgia
05/27/18 4:34 pm

Honestly, I’m trying to figure out your position. All who were not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. We know that not everyone is written in the book of life. If that were true, Romans 9:11, John 3:16-17, “depart from me, I never knew you”, John 6:37-42, etc certainly wouldn’t be consistent.

evoecon nearest binary system
05/27/18 4:40 pm

This is the second death, the lake of fire.

I am sorry your are not understanding the lake of fire causes death. Plus, where does Matt 13:50 create eternal torture? You never even tried to answer that question. You gave a single verse and extrapolate a whole belief, eternal torture. Yet, this verse does not define that...

But, you want me to provide a single verse to explain mine belief. Try read Revelations using a translation closer to the Greek.

political Georgia
05/27/18 4:55 pm

So you believe everyone goes to Heaven?

evoecon nearest binary system
05/27/18 4:57 pm

What?!?!?!

How did you get that from a “second death”? Did you mean that question for someone else?

political Georgia
05/27/18 5:01 pm

I just don’t understand your interpretation. If Hell is fake and Heaven is real not everyone goes to Heaven, where do those who are not born again go when they die?

evoecon nearest binary system
05/27/18 5:04 pm

If you took the time, you would find the first death and the second death leaves no soul. Fear not the one who can destroy your physical body, but the One who can destroy your soul. If a souls is consumed by the fire, what is left for eternity.

political Georgia
05/27/18 5:12 pm

Is there an article or something that explains what you are trying to convey clearer?

evoecon nearest binary system
05/27/18 5:18 pm

Yes. I would say the Greek version of the New Testament, but that is not an article. Plus, I have learned this over years of study.

I don’t know of an article. Why would you believe the fallen angels would get to profit from their rebellion and possess souls? What is so hard to accept the aspect the New Testament refers to the second death several times?

evoecon nearest binary system
05/27/18 5:18 pm

Plus, you have not address how the verse in Matthew establishes a hell.

evoecon nearest binary system
05/27/18 5:19 pm

Maybe it is not your time to understand this.

political Georgia
05/27/18 7:14 pm

The end of Matthew 13 is speaking about dividing God’s people from the rest of the world. As it says, His children will go to Heaven. Verse 50 shows us the result of all who aren’t His children. This clearly established Hell along with Revelation 20.

evoecon nearest binary system
05/27/18 7:33 pm

Do you think the bad fish were tormented in the fiery furnace forever? Really.

Why would Revelation call the lake of fire the second death? Because those souls will live an eternal torment for the pleasure of the fallen angels? Wow! And you think my thoughts on no hell being outside the box.

political Georgia
05/27/18 7:39 pm

Hell is what everyone deserves and is the punishment for sin. Hell is where there will be eternal punishment. That’s what I have said consistently.

evoecon nearest binary system
05/27/18 7:44 pm

The second death is for the condemned. The condemned will lose eternal life. Hence the weeping and gnashing of teeth. The wicked will know their fate at the time of the separation, the millennium. Right before the White Throne judgement. They will anguish about their second death.

political Georgia
05/27/18 2:33 pm

If there is no Hell, what did Jesus die on the cross for in the first place?

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Okie1967 Defend the Police
05/27/18 3:11 pm

Right. We need to be rescued from the effects of sin. The atonement enables a pathway for that.