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mfjd1948 rural johnson co iowa
12/12/17 11:13 am

The government's job is to follow the constitution as are the people. We a Nation of laws, no morals involved.

Survivalistien I am Green and Retired
12/12/17 8:32 am

The enforcement of morality is immoral itself.

political Georgia
12/06/17 9:48 am

Of course - the degree to which it should enforce is debated.

Okie1967 The world is crazy
12/06/17 9:17 am

Every law has a moral underpinning whether it be speeding laws or car registration or healthcare.

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Senate101 San Diego
12/06/17 8:41 am

Depends on the extent. Everything is morality, the proposition that murder is bad is a human moral. The problem is when the government stops being a guardian and starts being a nanny.

EarlyBird Portland
12/06/17 5:30 am

Enforcing morality was our moms job, not the governments.

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EarlyBird Portland
12/06/17 6:56 am

I love your sunglasses, Robert. They look good on you.

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/06/17 9:29 am

Meh?

Oh ya technically they brake SoH rules lol.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
12/06/17 5:06 am

What are laws, other than the government enforcing their view of morality?

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/06/17 6:21 am

Thats an easy one, they are not, they are enforcing principles.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
12/06/17 8:42 am

Which are derived from morality

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/06/17 9:25 am

Disagree.

Morals are derived from how one feels in individual circumstances.

Principal are derived from a set of rules that govern all circumstances.

There is some nuances when talking about "moral principles". And other terms derived from morals.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
12/06/17 11:46 am

My morality is judged by what I view to be just. My moral principles are primarily justice and equality. I want those values to be legislated.

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/07/17 9:10 am

And I see nothing wrong with that used your morality principles for yourself and try to legislate them.
The principles will be passed on and legislation the morality will not.

Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
12/06/17 4:40 am

No. They always try, and it never works. The only viable way for government to enforce morality is via term limits.

Tariq88 Utah
12/06/17 3:50 am

No, it should come within a person and out of sincerity for those who it is important to. However governments promoting morality and considering morality certain situations is a different story.

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
12/06/17 2:53 am

It does so every time it prosecutes a murderer, drug dealer, tax cheat, illegal alien, or drunk driver. So yes, the government can and should enforce some morality.

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Andrew99911 Where is the Source
12/06/17 6:12 am

Exactly what I was thinking ^^

Dutchess Holly Jolly Christmas
12/06/17 1:22 am

Morality in its most basic form is doing things that are right and wrong. Murder, rape, theft, etc. are things that a majority would see as right or wrong. Therefore the government is expected to legislate morality.

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Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/06/17 6:22 am

Yes it is subjective that's why our government enforces upon principles not morality

kscott516 EB rules
12/06/17 7:39 am

Principles are subjective, not morality.

badattitude no place like home
12/06/17 8:38 am

So is morality fixed because of religious writings? What if you're Hindu or Sikh? There are similarities in morality, like murder, but you can also sneak out in your husband if he doesn't satisfy your sexual needs. That is definitely immoral to a Mormon, but not to them. And what about all the atheists? Do they have no morals at all? Basics like murder are universal, except when it's okay if they are an infidel. Where am I going wrong?

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/06/17 10:22 am

Scott i disagree. And purpose the opposite.

Morals are subjective
Principals are agreed apon.

kscott516 EB rules
12/06/17 10:24 am

Morals are absolute based upon the imprint on your heart and soul given to you everyone by God. A woman cheating on her husband because “he can’t satisfy her sexual needs” is still immoral. Would cheating hurt him? How about their families when she gets caught and they divorce? What if she contracts a disease from the other cheater and passes it to her husband? There are victims in cases of cheating.

I argue that the same morality applies equally to everyone, though many clearly have selfish interests and claim relative morality.

badattitude no place like home
12/06/17 10:27 am

Morals are standards of conduct, and in some cases expectations of social behavior. Laws are supposedly based on moral codes and the principles of social morals as obligations on a community. Morality is now mainly the province of religions, but in the past was the subject of philosophy. The concepts of virtue were one of the primary bases for the development of 'morality' as it's now considered. Morality is sometimes considered a social concept, but is also typically referred to as a set of personal values.

Morals or knowing the difference between right and wrong is something we are all taught from a very early age. Morality is typically based on a cultures idea of what is right or wrong. Usually we know in our hearts and mind if something is morally wrong or right.

badattitude no place like home
12/06/17 10:28 am

Morals or knowing the difference between right and wrong is something we are all taught from a very early age. Morality is typically based on a cultures idea of what is right or wrong. Usually we know in our hearts and mind if something is morally wrong or right.

Some examples of bad morals could be:

Cheating on a test, lying or misleading someone intentionally.
Having an affair if you are married, or with a married man or woman
Stealing/taking items that are not yours or leaving a store knowing the cashier gave you too much change.
Going against socially accepted ideas of what is right or wrong.
Some examples of good morals could be:
Telling the truth regardless of the consequences to yourself
Helping others in need, even if it requires to go above and beyond normal expectations
Turning in someone who has stolen, cheated, or otherwise hurt someone even if they are a friend or family member.

badattitude no place like home
12/06/17 10:30 am

Fundamental norms, rules, or values that represent what is desirable and positive for a person, group, organization, or community, and help it in determining the rightfulness or wrongfulness of its actions. Principles are more basic than policy and objectives, and are meant to govern both. See also principle. www.businessdictionary.com/definition/principles.html

kscott516 EB rules
12/06/17 11:50 am

Can you provide some examples of morals that are acceptable in one culture but not another?

You mentioned cheating is bad if you are married or maybe have kids. What if you’re not married and cheat? Is that bad?

I’d venture to say that what some people are morally acceptable, that they would think differently if they were on the receiving end of the action.

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/06/17 1:35 pm

Right and wrong. Good and bad are subjective as well.

And yes it is morally unacceptable to call somebody fat here in America but it is not morally unacceptable to call somebody fat in China.

kscott516 EB rules
12/06/17 2:33 pm

“It is not morally unacceptable to call somebody fat in China”

Ok good example. Why is this not morally unacceptable in China? Do you think this inherently hurts the recipient’s feelings?

kscott516 EB rules
12/06/17 2:35 pm

I should add that good and bad are not truly relative, but a person’s selfishness could make them feel their actions are acceptable to themselves at least. The cheating example that breck mentioned. A woman may feel justified in cheating because “she’s not sexually satisfied”. Is that a good excuse? Are there victims involved?

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/06/17 2:36 pm

Inharently no.

China has no PC culture.

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/06/17 2:37 pm

there is no victim in the cheating example.

Emotional Pain is irrelevant to anybody besides the person who feels it.

badattitude no place like home
12/06/17 2:48 pm

Robert, my wife wouldn't agree that there's no victim in cheating. The spouse feels very much a victim.

kscott516 EB rules
12/06/17 3:59 pm

The culture may not practice absolute morality but that does not mean it do any exist. Just like because a group of people may tell lies it doesn’t mean there is no truth.

“there is no victim in the cheating example.

Emotional Pain is irrelevant to anybody besides the person who feels it.”

That statement contradicts itself. Naturally the person that is cheated on, and the children if any are involved and others, are the victims. If there are victims, then it is not a moral choice.

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/07/17 5:42 am

Im not sayingb doesn't exist, morality is subjective it changes from one person to another.

Emotional pain is pain you caused to yourself. It is you internalizing what has been done.

kscott516 EB rules
12/07/17 5:44 am

So you’re saying that murder is only wrong if the murderer feels the emotional pain of what he’s done?

badattitude no place like home
12/07/17 8:47 am

Maybe yes, maybe no. Maybe it's just lights out.

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/07/17 9:09 am

Murder is still physical distruction...

Better?

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/07/17 9:12 am

Scott, murder is aways wrong.
However wrong is subjective.

kscott516 EB rules
12/07/17 10:06 am

So something is “wrong” only if it causes physical pain? So cheating is ok?

“Scott, murder is aways wrong.
However wrong is subjective.”

How can murder be wrong if it’s subjective? You don’t seem to realize that you keep contradicting yourself.

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/07/17 10:19 am

Nope to at all i think its your rudimentary understandibg of life.

Murder is the act of killing some illegaly.
Our nation is based on principles, which clearly indicate wrong and right behavior.
I agree to these principles, and u believe you too as well.

However although we can agree apon what is right and what wrong, we cannot definitively say what is right and what is wrong. What is wrong is only what we have agreed apon.

kscott516 EB rules
12/07/17 11:03 am

You keep making nonsensical comments. Our nation is based upon principles that we all supposedly agree upon? I don’t. Many others don’t.

You aren’t even able to reconcile these two statements as making sense:
“Scott, murder is aways wrong.
However wrong is subjective.”

Murder can’t be “always wrong” and still subjective. Always wrong means it’s objective.

You also brought in emotional and physical pain but aren’t correlating them to any single standard. Is cheating ok? Yes or no?

By the way, laws are not the same as morals. Laws only relate to legality in a political system. Lying isn’t illegal but it isn’t morally good. Same for cheating.

kscott516 EB rules
12/07/17 11:15 am

Is lying and cheating morally acceptable?

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/07/17 11:26 am

Mortality varies from Individual to individual. ( subjective)

-in my opinion, yes.

kscott516 EB rules
12/07/17 11:37 am

Yet you said murder is “always wrong”

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/07/17 11:43 am

Lol yes.

Because "murder" is a legal term to define something us (society) has deamed 'wrong'. Using the word murder one must assume objective.

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/07/17 11:45 am

It's almost if you took what your parents told you about life @ face value - never to invest actual thought into it....

kscott516 EB rules
12/07/17 12:00 pm

You can’t claim morality as subjective while simultaneously saying murder is always wrong. That’s called a contradiction.

Legal terms and morality are not equivalent. One has to do with a judicial system and the other a spiritual system. Slavery was once legal. Is slavery only wrong now or was it always wrong? If we pass a law making it legal will you then consider it morally acceptable?

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/07/17 1:53 pm

Its not a contridiction.

If something is subjective it doesn't mean it doesn't exist it means it varies from experience to experience.

It's not a contradiction you just can't wrap your head around it.

kscott516 EB rules
12/07/17 2:29 pm

Of course it exists. You’re flip flopping like a fish out of water.

Is murder morally unacceptable only because it’s illegal?

By the way, the 13th amendment abolished slavery in the US. It’s not legal.

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/07/17 2:31 pm

13th Amendment doesn't abolish anything.

Abolishments don't have exceptions.

Im not flip flopping you just have a rudimentary understanding of the world around.

kscott516 EB rules
12/07/17 2:35 pm

You said murder is always wrong and morals are subjective. You have avoided making those two statements fit together logically. Morals and laws are not the same thing.

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/07/17 2:44 pm

Agreed
morals and laws are not the same thing.

Law is a closed system, that we have agreed apon. You have stated that you do not agree but your actions of pertisipating speaks to the opposite. Laws are a principal system.

Morals are subjective, as in there is no system. They vary from instance to instance - person to person.

Murder is always wrong because we have already agreed apon what is wrong.

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/07/17 2:45 pm

Still caught on the nuances aren't you?

kscott516 EB rules
12/07/17 2:49 pm

No, you just don’t seem to be able to shake that morals and laws are not the same thing since you keep returning to:

“Murder is always wrong because we have already agreed”

Who agreed? Why is it always wrong?

kscott516 EB rules
12/07/17 2:52 pm

13th amendment:

“Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

Yes, slavery is illegal 😂🤣

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/07/17 2:53 pm

By definition its wrong.

Murder : is the act of killing someone illegally.

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/07/17 2:54 pm

Did you gloss over ' except as punishment of a crime' part?

kscott516 EB rules
12/07/17 2:54 pm

I’m not surprised that you didn’t know that and are unable to comport your view that morals are subjective but murder is always wrong.

I’ll bet you also believe truth is relative, right?

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/07/17 3:01 pm

a·bol·ish

əˈbäliSH/

verb

formally put an end to (a system, practice, or institution).

13th amendment:

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, EXCEPT AS PUNISHMENT OF A CRIME whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

abolishments do not have exeptions.

The 13th amendment only pervents you and I from having slaves.

kscott516 EB rules
12/07/17 6:03 pm

Criminals don’t deserve the same rights. Would you prefer they have a club med with TVs and a spa, or make license plates and pick up trash along the highways?

kscott516 EB rules
12/07/17 6:10 pm

“Murder : is the act of killing someone illegally”

That’s a legal definition. They’re not one and the same, remember?

Raw milk is illegal. Is drinking that immoral?

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/07/17 6:22 pm

Im glade you see that slavery isnt illegal...
Regardless whether or not you or i consider the incarserated as slaves is irrelevant. The law clearly states there is an exeption.

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
12/07/17 6:26 pm

Not quiet but your almost getting it. thats my synapsis of the common words usage.
Here's Marion Webster

the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice.

kscott516 EB rules
12/07/17 7:53 pm

Murder : is the act of killing someone illegally”

That’s a legal definition. They’re not one and the same, remember?

Raw milk is illegal. Is drinking that immoral?

badattitude no place like home
12/07/17 7:54 pm

Is there a leave this conversation button?

DunkinFrunk Austin area, Texas
12/05/17 10:37 pm

No, the government is clueless when it comes to morality.

gow488 Wisconsin
12/05/17 10:25 pm

Yes. I don't rape and murder being legal.

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Mackinaw Wolverine State, est.1837
12/06/17 12:36 am

Those are largely matters involving violations of rights, not morality.

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
12/06/17 2:55 am

Violating another’s rights IS immoral.

gow488 Wisconsin
12/06/17 10:57 am

Correct Tom.

MachoMatt84 Mountain climbing
12/05/17 10:23 pm

I think this question is actually incomplete. It begs the questions "what is morality" or "how do you define morality". I would say that nearly everyone, whether they think so or not, does think the government should enforce morality. As long as it conforms to their own morality.