Show of HandsShow of Hands

4JC November 19th, 2017 1:56pm

Thanksgiving: It’s easy to thank God when He does miracles & answers prayer just the way we want. When we’re struggling through tragedy or hard times, it’s hard to believe that God is really there. Read @how God works even in the most horrific times.

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SHIPPY1944 Tn.
11/20/17 5:14 am

I read the story about Cory & her sister years ago. What a great example of faith & trust in God❗️We even have a dear sweet great niece named after Cory‼️

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/20/17 4:03 pm

Yes, I read it back in the early 80’s, I think. Oh, that’s cool! She was a great role model!

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
11/19/17 10:47 am

@LibArtie I forgot that @4jc has you on ignore.

This is an inspirational Holocaust anecdote. That’s why I tagged you and some other Jews. In retrospect, you probably wouldn’t appreciate the story, because it does have religious overtones.

In my opinion, you are missing out on a good SOH person, because you mocked her religion, until she blocked you. People can disagree, without being disrespectful.


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LibArtie SW Connecticut
11/19/17 10:49 am

Thanks GA. Frankly, if she didn’t block me, I’d block her. I find her detestable.

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
11/19/17 10:54 am

You are entitled to your opinion, obviously, but I sure don’t see it that way!

@4jc is kind. She listens respectfully to people who disagree with her. She tries to help other SOH users. I wonder where you got that perception!


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SHIPPY1944 Tn.
11/21/17 7:19 am

Gma, is that your sweet😇way of telling Libartie, “Stop being a hateful jerk, because your missing out, from it❗️😉

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/22/17 7:04 pm

Thanks, GA & Shippy! I appreciate your support! Hope you’re having a blessed Thanksgiving!

SHIPPY1944 Tn.
11/22/17 7:55 pm

4JC, Happy Thanksgiving to you & everyone else❗️We have much to be thankful for, & were given many opportunities to share our thankfulness‼️

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/22/17 8:27 pm

I agree, shippy!

LibArtie SW Connecticut
11/19/17 9:41 am

@GrandmaALiCE I saw your notification but not your message. This poll was posted by someone who blocked me, thankfully, so I no longer see her gospel.

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imanag My heaven on Earth
11/19/17 8:47 am

Thanks at 4JC for sharing that story. I hadn't read that in years either. It's a good reminder!

Yesterday, at the funeral for my student, her mother got up at said a few words. She said that the sudden loss of her daughter had left their family hurt and feeling like they were drowning. When she stood at the podium, she finally found her gratitude again, even though she couldn't imagine why she felt inspired to stand at all when her grief was choking. She saw in us hundreds of life preservers waiting to help rescue her and her family from going under. She was grateful for so many friends. Sometimes, gratitude is difficult, but we can find it if we look.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 8:52 am

Yes, I agree. @SunsetLeopard is being able to find things to be grateful for, in the midst of her grief and pain. I so admire her for that and hope the story below will mean something to her, also!


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imanag My heaven on Earth
11/19/17 8:58 am

I hope so too, bless her heart.

Jazzy5 USA
11/19/17 8:24 am

I can’t read it now, busy with Thanksgiving. I will pull it up and copy, to read at a quiet time.
Thank you.
Pray, people travel to and from families safety.
Bless all...This Thanksgiving. Even the ones I blocked!

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 8:49 am

Thanks for letting me know. Hope you enjoy reading it.

I agree with all you’ve said!

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 7:03 am

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! I hope you have a blessed week. And know that I am praying for all those that aren’t surrounded by family and friends, that have had the death of a loved one this year, those that are depressed or sick. I love you all!

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 6:57 am

💠 4JC asked:

Corrie Ten Boom and the Fleas

Thanksgiving: It’s simple to thank God when He does miracles & answers prayers just the way we want them answered. It’s also pretty easy to thank Him when we can look around and see many blessings in our lives.

When our situation seems awful, though, & we’re struggling through tragedy or just plain hard times, it can seem hard to believe that God is really there taking care of things; it can be hard to say, “I know You love me. Thank you for what You are doing even now.” Read a story about how God works even in the most horrific circumstances.

Reading
Not interested

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 6:58 am

I read the The Hiding Place, by Corrie Ten Boom when I was in my teens and two stories from her life stuck out to me, to the point that I remember them 40 years later! "Thank God For the Fleas" is one of those.

I looked it up online back in September for a point I was making with @USANWIII and found this article, which I thought would be wonderful to share for Thanksgiving. I hope it touches all of you as much as it touched me. Here it is:

In her book The Hiding Place, Corrie Ten Boom tells of a time she discovered that God was working even in the most horrific circumstances.

Corrie and her sister Betsie had been imprisoned by the Nazis for hiding Jews behind the wall of their Holland home, and Nazi prison conditions pretty well unbearable.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 6:58 am

2) Corrie writes:

“Barracks 8 was in the quarantine compound. Next to us–perhaps as a deliberate warning to newcomers–were located the punishment barracks. From there, all day long and often into the night, came the sounds of hell itself.

They were not the sounds of anger, or of any human emotion, but of a cruelty altogether detached: blows landing in regular rhythm, screams keeping pace. We would stand in our ten-deep ranks with our hands trembling at our sides, longing to jam them against our ears, to make the sounds stop.

“It grew harder and harder. Even within these four walls there was too much misery, too much seemingly pointless suffering. Every day something else failed to make sense, something else grew too heavy.”

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 6:59 am

3) Yet, in the midst of the suffering, the women prisoners around Corrie and Betsie found comfort in the little Bible studies they held in the barracks. Corrie writes they gathered around the Bible “like waifs clustered around a blazing fire…The blacker the night around us grew, the brighter and truer and more beautiful burned the Word of God.”

When they were moved to Barracks 28, Corrie was horrified by the fact that their reeking, straw-bed platforms swarmed with fleas. How could they live in such a place?
It was Betsie who discovered God’s answer:

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 6:59 am

4) “‘”Rejoice always, pray constantly, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus.” That’s it, Corrie! That’s His answer. “Give thanks in all circumstances!” That’s what we can do. We can start right now to thank God for every single thing about this new barracks!’

“I stared at her; then around me at the dark, foul-aired room…”
They thanked God for the fact they were together. They thanked God they had a Bible. They even thanked God for the horrible crowds of prisoners, that more people would be able to hear God’s Word. And then, Betsie thanked God for the fleas.

“The fleas! This was too much. ‘Betsie, there’s no way even God can make me grateful for a flea.’

“‘”Give thanks in all circumstances,”‘ she quoted. ‘It doesn’t say, “in pleasant circumstances.”  Fleas are part of this place where God has put us.’

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 7:00 am

5) “And so we stood between tiers of bunks and gave thanks for fleas. But this time I was sure Betsie was wrong.”

It turned out that Betsie was not wrong; the fleas were a nuisance, but a blessing after all. The women were able to have Bible studies in the barracks with a great deal of freedom, never bothered by supervisors coming in and harassing them. They finally discovered that it was the fleas that kept those supervisors out.

Through those fleas, God protected the women from abuse and harassment.  Dozens of desperate women were free to hear the comforting, hope-giving Word of God.  Through those fleas, God protected the women from much worse things and made sure they had their deepest, truest needs met.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 7:02 am

6) We all have “fleas” in our lives. We all have those things that we can see no use for, things that are obviously horrible, unpleasant, painful things that we want gone.

No life is free of “fleas”, but if Corrie and Betsie can be our examples, God can use even these nasty insects for our protection and blessing.

As we celebrate Thanksgiving Day, let’s thank God for His constant care and provision, and for His hidden blessings that come in ways we can easily overlook.

This is 4JC again. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! I hope you have a blessed week. And know that I am praying for all those that aren’t surrounded by family and friends, that have had the death of a loved one this year, those that are depressed or sick. I love you all!

I want to give proper credit to the site this article came from. Here it is:

prayer-coach.com/2009/11/29/thank-god-for-the-fleas-by-corrie-ten-boom/

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 8:51 am

@GrandmaAlice
@NKarta
@RussianThunder

I thought you would especially be interested in this story, since it concerns the Holocaust.

If you would like to tag other Jews into it, I’m fine with that.

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GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
11/19/17 9:32 am

@chinito
@goldz
@Bradyxyz
@MaxineL
@ozzy
@JediPythonClone
@jsd789
@LibArtie
@BrokenMirror
@613dimples


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goldz oh this world
11/19/17 9:43 am

That was an interesting and inspiring article. Thank you for sharing.

It reminds me of the story - though I don't remember details, of the Jew who, as he was being beaten by a Nazi, sang to himself, "oy zi gut tzu zein a yid," or, "it's so good to be a Jew."

These are the stories that renew my faith in humanity.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 9:59 am

Thanks for tagging them, GA! I thought LibArtie was an atheist, though. I don’t know if he’ll be able to see this, since I have him on ignore.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 9:59 am

Goldz, You’re welcome!

Yes, I see what you mean! That’s a great story, also!

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RussianThunder Russia and USA
11/19/17 10:02 am

It was a good article.

I had a hint of a problem in that, even the camp barracks Jews were being evangelized to but in general, Jews were kept apart from other prisoners....so I guess it’s ok.
However, it’s an inspiring article nonetheless

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 10:18 am

Thanks, RT! Any time you have evangelical Christians, they’re going to be trying to evangelize because they see that as an order from God. I hope you can understand it in those terms and not take as much offense in the future. It’s not that they’re trying to negate the Jewish religion. They’re trying to build on the Jewish religion.

If you felt that God had given you a commandment to tell all people about God, and try to convert them to be Jews, would you do it, for instance?

Please try not to see it as an affront to your religion, but love of the person that is talking to you, as they see your becoming a Christian the way to your having your most fulfilling life.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 10:18 am

2) I DO take offense though, if they’re insensitive to you, as it sounds like some have been in the past. I’ve known some Christian like that, decades ago, that felt they should tell everyone they’re going to burn in hell if they don’t accept Jesus.

But for many, that old model is gone, and we see that you can’t beat anyone into heaven. We prefer to show love & then when they see our example, & ask us what makes a difference in our lives, we can then tell them about Jesus.

Again, thanks for always being respectful to me, even when we disagree! I appreciate you and your opinions!

Glad you enjoyed the article.


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GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
11/19/17 10:38 am

4jc, you are right about Artie. He said above, that he got my notification, but can’t see what it’s about, because you have him on ignore.

I knew he was an atheist, but I thought he would appreciate the Holocaust connection. In retrospect, he wouldn’t appreciate this story, because he hates all references to any kind of religion.


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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 11:00 am

Thanks, GA. I agree. Maybe if I tell you why I have him on ignore, it might help you remember next time not to tag him into my polls.

He called me vile and accused me of not being a Christian. I won’t put up with that kind of abuse from people I know IRL, and I’m not putting up with it here.

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GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
11/19/17 11:10 am

Yes, I’ll try to remember not to tag him into your polls. 😊 That’s ironic, that he would say you’re not a Christian!

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 11:18 am

I can’t even remember now what it was over. But I’ve had everything from that, to other people here (that I promptly ignored) telling me that my pastor hubby was abusing me and stealing from little old ladies in our church. One told me that the reason I struggle financially is that I don’t know how to manage money like he did so well. Someone else informed me this was a teenager living at home with mommy and daddy, while I had balanced a budget and took care of a family of 6 on $20K! SMH

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GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
11/19/17 11:22 am

People on the Internet can be horrible! You just have to take a lot of it, with a big “grain of salt.”

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 11:24 am

Yes, I’ve learned to do that. But I also choose not to interact with people like that. I try to be respectful to everyone, and if they can’t return the favor and remain civil, I’m not putting up with it. It’s called boundaries. There is an entire series of Christian books about Boundaries! Lol

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GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
11/19/17 11:29 am

Of course! That’s also called protecting yourself. Nobody needs to be abused.

RussianThunder Russia and USA
11/19/17 4:50 pm

I understand it from the xian perspective but also try to understand it from the Jewish point of view. We are born to keep the Mitzvot and trying to keep us from doing that is, in a way, meddling with our souls. I had a Rabbi who said once “the Nazis killed our bodies but the xians and Muslims kill our souls”.
However, I like your story. I was just pointing that out. Not really trying to criticize.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 5:58 pm

What is the Mitzvot, RT? I didn’t think you were criticizing. I just know you’ve been upset about evangelization before and was trying to explain it from the point of view of an evangelical so that you would hopefully realize that most of them are not attacking your faith.

I can’t understand the rest of what you said because I don’t know what the Mitzvot is.

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goldz oh this world
11/19/17 6:06 pm

RT, I had a teacher who said that the worst thing the Nazis did wasn't that they killed us but that they made us into killers (by appointing Jews to carry out their killings).

Some things are the same in every Jewish education. 😉

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
11/19/17 6:23 pm

I’ll answer about mitzvot, if that’s ok.

Mitzvot is the Hebrew plural of mitzvah, which means commandment. Tradition says that there are 613 commandments (mitzvot) in the Torah. They are not all in one place, of course, but can be compiled from various parts of scripture.

Below is one list. However, I don’t know if there is universal agreement about what goes into the list of 613 mitzvot.

www.jewfaq.org/m/613.htm


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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 7:01 pm

Thanks, GA. I don’t understand how trying to tell someone about Jesus would be keeping you from following the commandments of the Torah.


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GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
11/19/17 7:18 pm

What I think RT is saying here is that the most important mitzvah, the most basic one, is to “have no other gods before me.”

Now, I understand that Christians see Jesus as a part of God and not separate. I’ve seen the “apple” analogy, for example. I understand that, if you follow Christianity, you are fulfilling that commandment, in your perception.

However, we don’t see God that way, not at all. We see belief in Jesus as accepting a false messiah. The two religions have a lot in common, but this basic thing is what differentiates us.


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RussianThunder Russia and USA
11/19/17 7:41 pm

Sorry for using terms you don’t understand JC, I don’t do it on purpose. I just forget. My apologies.

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
11/19/17 7:42 pm

RT, did I correctly explain what you were trying to say, originally?

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 7:54 pm

Ohhhhh, that’s right! I forgot about that. But you have to realize that the vast majority of Christians don’t realize that Jews believe that. So in their minds, they’re trying to offer you something more, not a totally different God. I had NO CLUE until NKarta told me I was idol worshipping that any Jews believe that. I was totally SHOCKED because we see our faith as building on yours and we thought y’all saw it that way, also.

So, RT, an average Christian doesn’t realize they’re asking you to go against the laws of the Old Testament. They think that you’re refusing to accept the most important person in that commandment! Does that help you understand any better where they’re coming from? They think they’re trying to help you KEEP that commandment!

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 7:54 pm

2) If you can try to keep that in mind, I think it might be less offensive when you see a Christian trying to convert a Jew. But I don’t know. Maybe that won’t make any difference to you?

That’s ok, RT. I know you don’t. May I ask you to do one thing, though? We’ve talked about the Christian vs. Xian thing. And you know that I don’t have problems with that, though other Christians do. But if you would just capitalize the X, that would mean a lot to me. After all, when you typed out Xian and Muslim, you capitalized the M in Muslim and you capitalize the J in Jews. Not only is it proper English to capitalize a Proper Noun, but it is also a sign of respect. Thanks so much!

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RussianThunder Russia and USA
11/19/17 8:19 pm

You know, honestly, spell check changes many things. I am sure I didn’t capitalize Muslim (just like I didn’t just now but it autocorrected for me). Xian does not seem to correct to Xian but remains Xian (ok...well this time it autocorrected when I purposely typed in a lower case x).....ok.....so obviously I don’t know what’s going on. I’ll try to remember. I’m not sure why it autocorrected now but not in the previous statement. Interesting. Honestly, I’m not trying to be insulting.

Anyway, we don’t refuse to accept Jesus (it autocorrected). We simply don’t accept him. Those are different and I think stems from the “New Testament” (that autocorrected) saying Jews refused Jesus and had him killed. That mindset shed a lot of Jewish blood over the years. We just don’t accept him, just like Mohammed, Buddha, Krishna etc (all of those autocorrected). We simply have our own faith.

Ok, I’ll try to remember to make sure it autocorrects. Sorry about that.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/19/17 8:38 pm

Thanks, RT! I appreciate that. I fail to see the difference in not accepting Him and refusing to accept Him, though. Are you able to explain that? Thanks!

RussianThunder Russia and USA
11/19/17 9:35 pm

If I come to you with a piece of chocolate pie and say, “want a piece of pie” and you say no, you would not say you refused it but that you didn’t want it. You didn’t accept the plate. It was not a rejection of the cake or the plate or the chef etc., you just don’t eat chocolate cake or didn’t want any.
So, the party goes on...your pie is there and you can have it whenever you want. If I go back and say “4JC refused the cake” it implies you rejected the cake and carries a negative connotation. The chef might be offended. If I say “4JC didn’t want any cake” it’s simply saying you chose not to have the cake. No one is offended.
We choose not to worship Jesus. Simple. It’s our choice. We all know who he was. We do not accept it as our religion. That’s it.

If you see it as rejection, then it’s because you won’t accept our decision to not accept him. In other words, when saying no to the chocolate cake, I failed to acknowledge your answer and jammed it down your throat.

RussianThunder Russia and USA
11/19/17 9:41 pm

When you stand up, screaming you didn’t want any, then I guess you could say you are actively rejecting it but only because I put you in that position by not acknowledging your desire to not have any but respecting the right of others to have some. I tried to force it upon you.
We respect the rights of others to worship how they see fit and just wish others respected our rights.
We simply say no to the chocolate cake. We know it’s there. We know we are welcome to it if we want. We simply don’t want any. We don’t accept it. It’s fine chocolate cake, we just don’t want any.

lcamino Florida and Georgia
11/20/17 1:34 am

It’s been so long since I read The Hiding Place. One thing to remember is that Corrie and her family were in the concentration camp for hiding Jews and helping them to escape. They did it out of love, with no strings attached. In the camp, they needed emotional comfort, compassion, and hope. I think that is what Corrie and her sister wanted to share.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/20/17 4:03 pm

Great points, lcamino!

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