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gluxford1 November 18th, 2017 2:07pm

SCOTUS has announced that they plan to hear a legal challenge to a California law that forces pro-life pregnancy centers to inform their clients that the state provides free abortions. If you were a SCOTUS justice, who would you rule in favor of?

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crazyjane New Jersey
11/20/17 1:24 pm

Any place that calls them self a pregnancy center should inform people of ALL opinions without persuading or dissuading them

PyroSadist like my comments follow
11/19/17 5:14 am

You can't force a group to say something.

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44YY Boston, MA
11/18/17 2:07 pm

Why shouldn’t women know all the options?

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gluxford1 Arizona
11/18/17 10:26 pm

Why don't the women who desire to kill their unborn children just go to a clinic that isn't pro-life?

commonman1 Peace
11/18/17 10:36 pm

Why is it bad to tell your clients that California will help you murder your baby. Then ask them do you want to murder your baby.

crazyjane New Jersey
11/20/17 2:11 pm

Said “pregnancy crisis centers” can be deceiving and people might not know their pro life bias at first

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
11/18/17 2:06 pm

I’m pro choice and this is dumb. There doesn’t need to be a law for this

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abusara i drink and i know things
11/18/17 1:23 pm

Not sure this is any different than other states that mandate abortion providers counsel women on adoption.

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/18/17 1:07 pm

I don’t think anyone should get an abortion. If they can’t take care of it put it up for adoption so that the baby can have a life with a family who will love them.

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bower8899 ...
11/18/17 12:29 pm

I'm Pro-choice but I side with the clinic

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fmm Philadelphia suburb
11/18/17 11:39 am

while I’m pro-choice I think CA has overstepped here and can’t force pro-life centers to do this

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ctskapski x
11/18/17 10:51 am

I support that as much as I support mandatory ultrasounds for abortions.

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SHIPPY1944 Tn.
11/18/17 8:39 am

Some more “Bassackwards” Leftist California unconstitutional actions, the State become a Socialist💩hole❗️

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Carolynn new jersey
11/18/17 8:29 am

Those pro-life pregnancy centers don't help women. They are only there to give misinformation and talk women out of having abortions. I've heard many cases of women that were promised help with expenses for medical care, diapers, formula, clothes, etc. They lied about that and they lie about how many weeks a woman is so she thinks it's too late to get an abortion. Their practices are unethical.

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gluxford1 Arizona
11/18/17 8:42 am

Sounds more like an opinion than a ruling based on the constitution.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/18/17 8:43 am

And how is trying to convince someone not to kill their baby unethical? And if you want to kill your baby in the first place, why are you going to a pro-life clinic?

Carolynn new jersey
11/18/17 8:54 am

I think it's unethical to lie to a customer and give misinformation. This goes for all businesses. If they want to convince a woman to continue the pregnancy, they need to give her all the facts and all of her options. If they don't do this, they are being dishonest.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/18/17 9:09 am

Trying to convince someone not to kill their baby does not equate to lying.

Carolynn new jersey
11/18/17 9:21 am

I did not equate those two. They can try to convince her one way, but they can't lie about how many weeks she is, whether they will help her financially, where she can go to obtain an abortion or financial assistance for one, etc. They are lying about many things, but I'm not saying that trying to convince her is lying.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/18/17 9:46 am

And what evidence do you have to prove that the pro-life clinics in discussing lied about how many weeks along their clients were?

Carolynn new jersey
11/18/17 10:55 am

Glux, I hope you don't block me for this, but I used to be a counselor at an abortion clinic. I have had a lot of experience with women who had unplanned pregnancies and I've been told of the experiences they had at these pro life pregnancy centers. Also, I've read several articles and researched this subject. There is a documentary on this where women go undercover to these places to show their tactics. They also interview several women who were promised financial support, then denied once it was too late to have an abortion.

Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
11/18/17 2:14 pm

Killing unborn children is unethical, when it is for the sake of convenience!

Carolynn new jersey
11/18/17 2:26 pm

Harry, I respect your opinion. I think it's possible to believe abortion is unethical and lying to customers is unethical.

Should it be against the law to withhold information? That's a difficult subject. I don't think they should be forced to tell women about funding for abortions, but what do they say to women who ask about it? Do they lie and say there is no funding? Or do they just plead ignorance and say they don't have any info for them? Either way, I believe what they are doing is unethical.

chickencookie Merry Christmas
11/18/17 5:38 pm

What did you do as a counselor? Did you counsel them before or after?

Carolynn new jersey
11/18/17 6:43 pm

Most of the time it was options counseling, but I counseled women before and followed up with them after. No woman could have the procedure without speaking to a counselor first. I explained the procedure to them and I went in depth about other options like parenting and adoption. I was not allowed to persuade anyone towards any decision, I was only allowed to give her the information and allow her to decide for herself. If a woman expressed the slightest doubt, we refused the abortion and sent her home.

Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
11/18/17 7:00 pm

Carolyn, the most unethical thing is to withhold information. What angers me is the fact that Margaret Sanger was dishonest, because she was selectively eliminating people she considered inferior. I am sure there are people with good motives, but politics should not be involved.

Carolynn new jersey
11/18/17 7:33 pm

Harry, I agree with that.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/18/17 10:22 pm

@Carolynn
1. I would never block you for having a different opinion. We may disagree on certain issues, but I still have a ton of respect for you and consider you a friend.
2. While that may (emphasis on the may) have happened to some of the women you counseled, there has been no credible evidence of that happening to the pro-life clinics discussed in the poll. We should not be punishing many for the actions of a few. And, as I stated before, if a women is seeking an abortion then they shouldn't go to a pro-life clinic. That's obviously and completely counterproductive on their part.

chickencookie Merry Christmas
11/19/17 7:17 am

@Carolynn just curious. Of those that you counseled before, what percentage (about) changed their minds?

Carolynn new jersey
11/19/17 8:12 pm

Thank you, Glux. I consider you a friend and I respect you as well. I only said that because it's happened to me before with people I thought were my friends.

Carolynn new jersey
11/19/17 8:18 pm

Chicken cookie, the vast majority of women I've counseled had their minds made up before they came. Even if they did, they still had to talk to a counselor. They very rarely changed their minds. I'd say that about 90% did not change their minds. The other 10% can be put into a few different categories. Some decided to continue the pregnancy and raise the baby or adopt to another family. Some were there because they were being forced by a boyfriend/husband or family member. If we uncover this, we refuse the abortion. Sometimes, we had to report abuse. I hope this answers your question.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/18/17 7:08 am

California's law violates the first amendment of the U.S. Constitution, so I would rule in favor of the pro-life centers.

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gluxford1 Arizona
11/18/17 7:08 am

For iPad users:

Argonaut Yang 2020
11/18/17 1:17 pm

Are the pro-life centers considered medical facilities or any variation? If so then they have an obligation to inform them of abortions. One of the criteria for informed consent is to have an understanding of the procedures that a clinician is willing to provide, and any alternatives

gluxford1 Arizona
11/18/17 10:24 pm

And what forces pro-life organizations to inform their clients of baby killing being an option? The very same California law that is being challenged by the Supreme Court. If you want to kill your baby, why are you going to a pro-life pregnancy clinic. There is more than one clinic in the state of California.

Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
11/19/17 4:26 pm

And a lot of rich Abortionists.

Argonaut Yang 2020
11/19/17 10:14 pm

Medical ethics is what requires them. As I asked, are they considered medical facilities? If so they are obligated by medical ethics, if not then they technically do not have such obligation