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Jeninerd November 17th, 2017 10:38pm

Assuming you can't have both, do you think it's more important that a work of creative fiction have an excellent protagonist, or excellent villain?

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ishady 86451132020
11/18/17 10:32 am

Antagonist is more important. The hero can be an everyday person pushed into extraordinary circumstances who then overcomes them. You make the protagonist too fantastic what’s the fun in that?

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Axl752 NY
11/17/17 5:32 pm

A main event heel for sure.

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Jeninerd Hoth, AK
11/17/17 4:26 pm

I wander in and out a bit. Haha.

FATSHADOW Cyborg Gorilla
11/17/17 4:16 pm

The Antagonist is key to a great story, but is the protagonist is shit the reader will likely never finish the story.

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Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
11/17/17 4:22 pm

I disagree. Look how popular Harry Potter has always been. Any adult reader of the series cringes numerous times each book at how ridiculously stupid/short-sighted Harry often is, leading to significant negative consequences that could have been completely avoid if he just used half a brain.

FATSHADOW Cyborg Gorilla
11/17/17 4:24 pm

I dont think Harry Potter would have been nearly as successful of a franchise if the reader believed he was a shitty character, as flawed as he may be.

Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
11/17/17 4:25 pm

Part of the reason the series was so successful, in my opinion, was due to the fact that the main antagonist, and those who associated with him, were incredibly solid characters.

Jeninerd Hoth, AK
11/17/17 4:28 pm

While we're on the subject of Harry Potter, Umbridge is one of the best villains ever written.

FATSHADOW Cyborg Gorilla
11/17/17 4:29 pm

You may be right. I never read the book and only seen one of the movies, but I think I’m safe in my assertion that the character is beloved.

I tend to enjoy an good antagonist more.

Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
11/17/17 4:33 pm

Umbridge is legendary. Wands away, there will be no need to talk.

Assuming the film you saw was Sorcerer’s Stone, I suppose Quirrell wasn’t a very solid character, and Voldemort wasn’t very solid in that installment either. But I’ve always been convinced that this is just due to Rowling having yet to figure out the overall direction of the series when she penned the first book (the prophecy, horcruxes, etc).

Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
11/17/17 4:35 pm

(I mean, obviously we all knew Harry had a connection to Voldemort from the start, but I mean that I don’t think J.K. had completely nailed it down yet)

FATSHADOW Cyborg Gorilla
11/17/17 4:38 pm

I saw the one with Gary Oldman.

I usually catch shit for never getting into Harry Potter, but I never got i to anything with Magic.

One of my colleagues is a huge fan. She has a HP tattoo and shit.

Jeninerd Hoth, AK
11/17/17 4:41 pm

I have a Harry Potter tattoo. Haha.

Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
11/17/17 4:50 pm

Sign of the Deathly Hallows, I bet.

Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
11/17/17 4:53 pm

Gary Oldman was in several of them, but I presume you mean Prisoner of Azkaban.

Jeninerd Hoth, AK
11/17/17 4:55 pm

Yep! It's "Always" written in Snape's handwriting, with the Hallows logo for the "A." I'm adding Hedwig at some point (snowy owls are also the symbol for my Native village).

Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
11/17/17 5:04 pm

Years ago I thought about inking a Dumbledore quote ("Let us step out into the night and pursue that flighty temptress, adventure.”) but it never came to fruition.

Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
11/17/17 4:04 pm

The antagonist has proven time and time again to make or break a work. Of the numerous examples flooding my brain right now, one that most people can recognize that Kylo Ren does not stack up to his predecessor and it taints the film in a way.

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Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
11/17/17 4:07 pm

Another prominent film most people are familiar with is probably Spider-Man 3. There’s a reason that film tanked and all subsequent planned films were scrapped, and it had nothing to do with Tobey Maguire (although he WAS the worst Spider-Man ever, but still tolerable).

swervin Maryland
11/17/17 6:26 pm

That emo scene in SM3 was why it was hated. Venom, one of the most badass things in the universe, turned him into a stupid emo kid.

mistah Happy Happy Joy Joy
11/17/17 7:03 pm

SM3 might have been decent if the studios didn't interfere and force Venom to be included

swervin Maryland
11/17/17 3:52 pm

James Bond has worked for many years, occasionally for good villains but mostly because of how awesome the hero is.

Axl752 NY
11/17/17 5:33 pm

A good face is great. But an amazing heel is another level.

swervin Maryland
11/17/17 6:19 pm

My example is specific to James Bond though. There have only been a few memorable bad guys, Goldfinger, Odd Job, and Jaws. The rest have been "generic white guy has plans to destroy the world".

BrokenMirror free speech
11/17/17 3:47 pm

You want people to root for your hero, your hero should therefore be identifiable and multidimensional first

Jeninerd Hoth, AK
11/17/17 3:49 pm

There are some really great pieces out there with weak protagonists, though. "Heart of Darkness" and "Blood Meridian" were two recent reads that inspired this poll.

Jeninerd Hoth, AK
11/17/17 3:50 pm

Both have fantastically monstrous villains and relatively weak protagonists.

Jeninerd Hoth, AK
11/17/17 3:39 pm

Personally my favorite books and movies have fantastic villains.

LeftLibertarian The Age of Outrage
11/17/17 3:39 pm

Protagonist unless you’re work is supposed to be dystopian.

LeftLibertarian The Age of Outrage
11/17/17 3:39 pm

your* it wasn’t me is was autocorrect being horrible.

LeftLibertarian The Age of Outrage
11/17/17 3:55 pm

Also it* hucking fell