Show of HandsShow of Hands

ronderman November 16th, 2017 3:56pm

No matter which side of the aisle you are on, will you treat the allegations against Senator Al Franken the same as you treated the allegations against Judge Roy Moore?

19 Liked

Comments: Add Comment

ozzy
11/18/17 6:15 am

Same hurtles: But one has allegations that are not yet substantiated, the other has photo proof after being told “no”, and an admission of guilt. So one guilty, one unknown as of yet

ShawPPM1214 Washington
11/17/17 12:31 pm

There's actual proof that Franken did it. Pictures and all. Moore..not so much. If it's proven that Moore did what he was accused of then he should drop out/resign. Franken should defenitely resign.

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thebarr
11/17/17 4:09 am

Franken admitted it. Moore denies it. That’s the difference.

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ronderman North Carolina
11/17/17 5:16 am

Franken couldn't deny it. There was photo evidence.

lcamino Florida and Georgia
11/17/17 12:32 am

No there is a picture of Franken grabbing the woman’s breasts while she is asleep.

lostriver Oregon
11/16/17 10:02 pm

With what is happening now of sexual assault. It can’t be tolerated no matter who you are, or affiliated with.

ronderman North Carolina
11/17/17 5:17 am

Agreed, I am just worried about the Salem Witch Trial hysteria that we are currently in. In America, we aren't supposed to try people in the court of public opinion.

him420 California
11/16/17 9:50 pm

He admitted and apologized the pic is funny and 90% if men have taken pics like that and I don’t mean of women guys just take stupid pics and act stupid in front of a camera think if all the guys in a pic with a butt next to there head when passed out or a D drawn on their face what if they say they were hare asked or assaulted

ronderman North Carolina
11/17/17 5:18 am

I must be in that 10%, but I see your point.

ozzy
11/18/17 6:16 am

I don’t think it’s 90%. Lol

chinito Florida
11/19/17 5:47 am

It's nowhere close to 90%. You definitely have to reconsider who do you hang out with.

Zod Above Pugetropolis
11/16/17 8:50 pm

And those against the valueless turdnugget still dirtying up the White House, yes.

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ronderman North Carolina
11/17/17 5:16 am

Agreed.


Though I admiringly don't know what a turdnugget is.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/16/17 6:30 pm

Same logic applies. Innocent until proven guilty.

thebarr
11/17/17 4:11 am

Completely agree! Franken admitted it and there is a picture. How’s that for proof?

osouless Whats Next
11/16/17 3:32 pm

Yes, but no. Yes as the issue is equal, but the evidence is not.

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osouless Whats Next
11/16/17 3:32 pm

Also, one apologized, the other is justifying it with bible quotes. So. Reaction will be different.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
11/16/17 5:41 pm

Wait, are you confusing Moore with hannity?

gluxford1 Arizona
11/16/17 6:32 pm

Way to be hypocritical.
"He apologized, so it's okay when my side does it" is not an acceptable excuse for sexual harassment and assault if he is guilty.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
11/16/17 6:37 pm

No one has said it was ok, to my knowledge.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/16/17 6:41 pm

Then why is your reaction so different? Why so nonchalant about this accusation when you guys were screaming bloody murder over the Roy Moore accusations? It seems like a double standard is being applied here because this time the accusations see being leveled against someone on your side of the ideological spectrum.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
11/16/17 6:53 pm

Actually, I am not screaming bloody murder (except one time, and just be snarky).

I take the accusations seriously.

osouless Whats Next
11/16/17 6:56 pm

I never said the apology excuses the action. The question asks if i will treat them the same, the answer is no. Equally reprehensible actions, not equally reprehensible responses. Roy Moore is not owning up to it. Al Franken has owned up to it.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/16/17 6:59 pm

Owning up to being a sicko does not make him any less deplorable. Thank you for revealing your double standard once more.

osouless Whats Next
11/16/17 7:03 pm

It’s like you’re looking at me writing 2+2=4 on the chalkboard and you keep telling me i fucked up somewhere in the equation.

The ACTIONS remain the same. My REACTION to the ACTIONS remain the same. They’re REACTIONS to others finding out about their ACTIONS leads to differing REACTIONS within me. BOTH men are disgusting, BOTH sets of actions are disgusting, BOTH of their RESPONSES to the public knowledge of their actions are NOT disgusting. Need i spell it out any more clearly?

gluxford1 Arizona
11/16/17 7:04 pm

Ohhh, somebody's triggered. šŸ˜‚

osouless Whats Next
11/16/17 7:30 pm

I guess? More like confused how you’re able to claim others are being unreasonable while not actually presenting a real argument or providing real examples as to how i’m being unreasonable.

OhTheIrony Learning from you
11/17/17 11:15 am

I feel obligated to point out that touching and kissing a grown adult woman is not as horrifying as touching an underage girl.

The actions are not the same AND the responses are not the same. Al Franken committed a lesser offense and apologized for it, both of which Roy Moore did not do.

That being said, Al Franken should resign because his actions were still unacceptable.

Roy Moore should withdraw, obviously.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/17/17 8:28 pm

So because Franken assaulted a woman instead of a child, he's absolved in your eyes? Nice double standard, hypocrite.

OhTheIrony Learning from you
11/17/17 8:39 pm

Please read my comment.

"Al Franken should resign."

gluxford1 Arizona
11/17/17 8:40 pm

But apparently he's absolved of all wrongdoing in your mind nonetheless because his alleged victim was an adult and he said he was sorry for being a predator.

OhTheIrony Learning from you
11/17/17 8:42 pm

No, he's not absolved of anything? I want him to resign. I condemn his actions.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/17/17 8:43 pm

Your previous comment in this thread sounded more fawning than condemning.

OhTheIrony Learning from you
11/17/17 8:51 pm

No, I'm not fawning. I'm explaining how it's important to realize that Al Franken committed a far lesser offense. That doesn't mean the offense doesn't matter.

A pedophile is worse than a someone who touches a woman's breasts.

Therefore, Roy Moore's actions are worse but neither are fit for federal office.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/17/17 8:52 pm

Both are sexual predators if guilty and are thus equally revolting in my eyes. I don't do double standards.

OhTheIrony Learning from you
11/17/17 8:55 pm

You don't understand nuance.

If someone kills someone accidentally, we don't punish them as much as a serial killer.

You're drawing a false equivalency and conflating it with the concept of a double standard, which has nothing to do with what we're talking about because the situations are not the same.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/17/17 8:56 pm

"Sexual assault is nuanced."
Really? That's your defense of an accused pervert? Sick.

OhTheIrony Learning from you
11/17/17 9:01 pm

Yes, it's obviously nuanced. If Trump is accused of sexual assault because he tried to kiss a woman, do you think that's as offensive as what Roy Moore is accused of?

You should really learn to stop insulting people.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/17/17 9:04 pm

Accused does not equate to guilty and I'm not insulting anyone. Just telling the truth. I think sexual assault is wrong period and I refuse to make excuses for it like you have been doing here.

OhTheIrony Learning from you
11/17/17 9:07 pm

You realize everyone were talking about has been accused right? No one has been convicted of anything.

Why are you making excuses for Trump?

gluxford1 Arizona
11/17/17 9:08 pm

I'm aware that they are all accused and not convicted. That's why I've been using words like "if", "alleged", and "accused." I also didn't make any excuses for anyone. Have you not been paying attention?

OhTheIrony Learning from you
11/17/17 9:10 pm

You literally just made an excuse for Trump.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/17/17 9:12 pm

No, I actually didn't. I merely stated a fact.

OhTheIrony Learning from you
11/17/17 9:12 pm

Why aren't you calling for Trump's resignation?

He's a sexual predator and you don't tolerate sexual predators apparently.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/17/17 9:12 pm

Evidence?

gluxford1 Arizona
11/17/17 9:12 pm

Convictions?

OhTheIrony Learning from you
11/17/17 9:12 pm

That's your defense of a sexual pervert? Sick.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/17/17 9:13 pm

No, that's my defense of innocent until proven guilty. Nice deflecting and projecting by the way. šŸ˜‚

OhTheIrony Learning from you
11/17/17 9:14 pm

So then you think Al Franken is innocent until proven guilty too?

gluxford1 Arizona
11/17/17 9:15 pm

Of course.

OhTheIrony Learning from you
11/17/17 9:17 pm

Okay, then why are you calling him a sexual pervert if he's innocent before being proven guilty?

gluxford1 Arizona
11/17/17 9:22 pm

Go back and read my comment again. I said "accused pervert", which implies that he has not been proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Either you misread my comment or you're just being intellectually dishonest. I'm going to try and get some shut-eye now because I have to get up early for work. Have a nice evening.

OhTheIrony Learning from you
11/17/17 9:27 pm

I'm using your arguments against you to show you how stupid you sound. I don't genuinely argue like this.

I made a nuanced argument and you insulted me instead of reading my comments and trying to have a fair and honest discussion.

If you have a shred of intellectual honesty, you wouldn't call me "sick". You wouldn't accuse me of absolving Al Franken of his alleged acts.

I did none of these things and any fair-minded, honest person reading this thread would agree with me.

You are, I am sorry to say, one of the most dishonest people I've debated with on this app.

I hope you have a good night.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/18/17 6:36 am

Ah, that response was adorable but still false. I find both accusations against both men, if proven true, to be equally abhorrent. I don't see sexual assault as "nuanced", I see it as depraved, hence why I attacked your "nuanced" comment that sounded more like your convoluted excuse for Al Franken's alleged misdeeds.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
11/16/17 2:47 pm

So I got about 10 notifications about Moore on my phone, have gotten zero about Franken. What happened with Franken?

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
11/16/17 2:43 pm

I treat the accusations the same, but not the reactions.

Franken acknowledged and apologized.

Moore is making excuses and trying to deflect.

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OhTheIrony Learning from you
11/16/17 1:32 pm

The severity of the offenses are not the same, so it's important not to draw a false equivalency.

But they certainly should both resign if they committed those acts.

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Metamorphosis
11/16/17 12:56 pm

It makes no difference to me if the person is liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat. I only look at the age of the victims, number of accusations, was coercion involved, is there a pattern that can be established. Men with money and power routinely circumvent our legal system. When multiple accusations are involved, I give the benefit of the doubt to the accusers over the accused.

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voc I am...what I am
11/16/17 12:49 pm

Yep. He was on snl during its cocaine hey day. I’m sure there were lots of people he groped. Plus he’s now a politician. They’re all scum.

Why was he accused too?

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MrsCrayonWax
11/16/17 1:00 pm

Google al Franken. He’s groping a woman who is sleeping.

MrsCrayonWax
11/16/17 1:00 pm

And Sylvester Stallone was just accused.

voc I am...what I am
11/16/17 1:01 pm

Lol! Good lord. I thought Stallone was gay? Or is that travolta?

MrsCrayonWax
11/16/17 1:20 pm

Bro, that’s Travolta. You’ve got to keep up on your Hollywood Gossip! šŸ¤£

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
11/16/17 2:41 pm

There is a photo of him pretending to grope,
his hands are not touching her. It is the idea that he would do even that, which is disappointing.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
11/16/17 2:48 pm

Travolta is notorious for having young male fuck toys

voc I am...what I am
11/16/17 2:49 pm

I’m sure they’ve all done something like that or worse. I have no faith in our leaders anymore. Never had any for actors. They’re just people that entertain me.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
11/16/17 2:51 pm

If it’s entertainment you’re after, this is the golden age

MrsCrayonWax
11/16/17 3:32 pm

I could be wrong, but having worked along side local celebs, absolute power (if only in their minds) corrupts absolutely. The shit that I heard, saw, that happened to me personally? Unreal.

MrsCrayonWax
11/16/17 5:03 pm

Some day. Some day...

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
11/16/17 7:08 pm

Yikes MrsCW, makes me sad that you had to endure it. šŸ˜•

MrsCrayonWax
11/16/17 7:28 pm

Unfortunately I wasn’t the only one. There were only two choices. Stay, or go.

Malekithe Resist
11/16/17 12:32 pm

There is visual evidence of Franken

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Liberty 4,032,064
11/16/17 11:13 am

Yep. Look for evidence and go from there.

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jfish82285 Tennessean in Colorado
11/16/17 10:38 am

The extent of the allegations against the two men aren’t comparable, but yes I would, in the sense that I believe the accusers.

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xtarite
11/16/17 10:31 am

Franken has picture evidence against him...Moore has nothing but words

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zimmy Florida
11/16/17 11:49 am

And being barred from a mall, pretty damning if you ask me!

Malekithe Resist
11/16/17 12:32 pm

The manager of the mall said that never happened

zimmy Florida
11/16/17 12:34 pm

No wrong again! The manager claims he doesn’t recall it, although there is paper work of complaints about Moore, also the manager happens to be a Ardent Moore supporter.

MrsCrayonWax
11/16/17 10:12 am

110%

Great picture of him meeting a woman while she’s asleep and he’s grinning like the Cheshire Cat.

Treat them all equally.

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MrsCrayonWax
11/16/17 10:22 am

Meeting should be molesting

rons WOKE is sick
11/16/17 10:00 am

No, unless more women come out after Franken.

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JudicialJedi321 This is How Liberty Dies
11/16/17 9:58 am

I have a strict standard of innocent and proven guilty, even for someone I despise as much as al Franken.

I am however willing to hold others to their own standard. If democrats are willing to treat Moore as if he's guilty no matter what, they should also ostracize themselves from Franken.

It takes real evidence to persuade, like for example... An old dress with the accusers DNA on it.

Not an ambiguously authentic signature that could literally have been gained anyways (he is a judge, and she is divorced after all)

There can be no doubt left in my mind if I'm going to support ruining an individuals reputation over mere allegations.
.

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JudicialJedi321 This is How Liberty Dies
11/16/17 10:12 am

I posted this comment before I was aware of the photo of Franken groping a women. THAT is evidence if there ever was.
.

JudicialJedi321 This is How Liberty Dies
11/16/17 10:17 am

As far as I'm aware there are no pictures or hard evidence of Moore doing anything improper.

I believe in an all around standard, and all I said is the picture of Franken is pretty damning evidence. Far worse than anything they have against Moore as far as I'm aware. If he can come up with a valid response I will listen with an open mind, but damn, it is a tough sell to me that it was innocent in any way.
.
.

MrsCrayonWax
11/16/17 10:21 am

Moore was on the radar of local authorities and mall officials. He was known as a creeper. That’s pretty damning. It’s not proof of sexual assault but pretty incriminating. The democrats and republicans alike need to be consistent in this.

ronderman North Carolina
11/16/17 9:21 am

I'm guessing that there will not be anyone left in Washington within the next year.

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mstt
11/16/17 10:46 am

That’s one way to drain the swamp.

ronderman North Carolina
11/16/17 11:14 am

Trump would likely have to go too, don't forget.

TomM
11/16/17 12:07 pm

It's not what I expected when they said drain the swamp, but it works for me. I want to see who will accuse Nancy Pelosi, that's a horrifying image to me.

OhTheIrony Learning from you
11/16/17 1:35 pm

Good riddance. We need to weed all of these sexual abusers out of office, including Trump.

Okie1967 Fudge joe biden
11/16/17 9:16 am

And also the allegations against bill Clinton and joe Biden.

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ProudAmerican45 North Joisey
11/16/17 9:02 am

Iļø want to hear what Franken has to say about the distasteful photo that was taken of him allegedly grabbing her boobies..šŸ¤”

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rons WOKE is sick
11/16/17 10:02 am

He said grabbing her boobs was a joke!

ProudAmerican45 North Joisey
11/16/17 10:08 am

Guess the jokes on him..maybe he will keep his word hole shut regarding the Moore situation..Iļø bet both male republicans and democrats are thinking real good and hard about things they may have done to women in the past..my question is WHO’S NEXT? DUM..DUM DUUUUM!

ptellini Homosuperior
11/16/17 9:00 am

For this reason, I would not stand with JFK, Clinton or Moore.

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Robert97206 Portland Oregon
11/16/17 9:16 am

"For this reason"

If you don't mind elaborating what reason is that?

PyroSadist like my comments follow
11/16/17 9:27 am

I noticed that the allegations are true against Moore but alleged a against JFK and Clinton and Frankin

ptellini Homosuperior
11/16/17 9:28 am

I won’t support Moore if he’s guilty. I know the others are guilty.

PyroSadist like my comments follow
11/16/17 9:33 am

You know they are guilty? How do you know? Especially franken

ptellini Homosuperior
11/16/17 9:37 am

I am not familiar with Franken.

PyroSadist like my comments follow
11/16/17 9:42 am

So when you wrote the others you didn't mean to include Franken?

ptellini Homosuperior
11/16/17 9:43 am

I was referring to my original comment.

Robert97206 Portland Oregon
11/16/17 9:43 am

Lol. What did i start šŸ˜‚