Show of HandsShow of Hands

gluxford1 November 15th, 2017 9:31pm

A federal judge has ruled that the 73-year-old seal of Lehigh County, Pennsylvania must be removed from all documents until the Christian cross that adorns it is taken off. The county is now fighting the ruling in appeals court. Who do you side with?

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Comments: Add Comment

mac238 Ohio
11/15/17 6:22 pm

First amendment violation and also there’s history behind it

Reply
commonsense America isnt racist
11/15/17 5:42 pm

I’m with the 1st amendment. Protection from religion.

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kscott516 Revelation 5 6
11/15/17 5:44 pm

You mean protection of religion

commonsense America isnt racist
11/15/17 5:46 pm

Nope. Protection FROM religion. The ability to not be pressured to believe in silly crap on my money or govt seals.

kscott516 Revelation 5 6
11/15/17 6:00 pm

Then you’re not referencing the 1st amendment, just speaking your opinion.

Do yo I have any idea what the symbols on dollar bills mean?

commonsense America isnt racist
11/15/17 6:20 pm

The 1st amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.

When you put religious symbols on any govt doc or place, it’s infringing on my 1st amendment .

kscott516 Revelation 5 6
11/15/17 9:45 pm

Really? So how does that dollar bill in your pocket force you to be a religious person exactly? Did it make you attend church? Pay a tithe? Pray to God?

commonsense America isnt racist
11/15/17 11:22 pm

How would you feel about seeing a hairy sweaty looking penis and ball sack on all your govt seals?

Same way I feel with religious symbols in govt.

kscott516 Revelation 5 6
11/16/17 5:21 am

I would find that vulgar but it wouldn’t make me feel compelled to whip my junk out. I don’t really understand how that compares. πŸ€”

A cross is not vulgar, it’s a symbol. You haven’t answered my question. Do you know what the symbols on a dollar bill mean? Why does a cross generate so much hatred in you?

commonsense America isnt racist
11/16/17 7:04 am

A cross is a representation of human sacrifice. We as a people stopped doing that 1,000’s of years ago.

It’s time for us to mature.

kscott516 Revelation 5 6
11/16/17 7:23 am

“A cross is a representation of human sacrifice”

In what religion? πŸ™„

You think human sacrifice no longer occurs? It does and by people you would never suspect in a million years.

commonsense America isnt racist
11/16/17 7:26 am

As a society in America, no.

kscott516 Revelation 5 6
11/16/17 7:27 am

You have lots of opinions but refuse to answer questions. I’m guessing because they blow your argument.

jztheman Connecticut
11/16/17 8:21 am

You forgot to add the full first amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" Congress cannot make federal laws but as the tenth amendment says, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." So Local and state governments can do what they want with the flag.

Alcerus fascist
11/19/17 10:02 am

@commonsense

"Congress shall make no law..."
How does this apply when it is a county government using the cross as a symbol? It's not a law, and it's not Congress. This has nothing to do with that at all.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
11/15/17 5:05 pm

Eh I’m torn. On the one hand I don’t think religious symbolism belongs on government objects. On the other hand I’m not a fan of revisionist changes based on recent activism when it hasn’t been causing any problems

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CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
11/15/17 5:05 pm

I guess I’d be in favor of grandfathering this in, but not doing it in the future for new townships

Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
11/15/17 4:20 pm

Johonmillie, if you actually knew what you are talking about, you might be dangerous.

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Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
11/15/17 4:22 pm

This was supposed to be a response to a following comment.

Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
11/15/17 4:10 pm

Just once, I would like to hear about a Federal Judge using the law as his guide, rather than his
Personal beliefs or non-belief. Can anyone tell me where Christians can go to escape religious persecution? I thought that was the reason that so many people came to New England and Maryland.

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ScenarioNations California
11/15/17 4:59 pm

It's not religious persecution to keep state and religion separated

Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
11/15/17 5:09 pm

Actually, the First Amendment requires the Federal Government to not interfere with churches or religious symbols. It's as bad as the Government trying to control behavior in the bedroom. It has to stop!

ScenarioNations California
11/15/17 5:10 pm

When the religious symbols are in government then this doesn't apply. That's equivalent of saying the government can't legislate the government lol

kscott516 Revelation 5 6
11/15/17 5:44 pm

The government is OF, BY, and FOR the people. It’s not an entity of itself.

ScenarioNations California
11/15/17 7:25 pm

See that's where I disagree. What you're saying is what it SHOULD BE, not what it ACTUALLY is. Democracy is what we wish we have, but in reality we have corporations buying elections and the government looking out for its interests while acting as if they're looking out for ours. We only have a two party system, so our "choices" usually comes down to the lesser of two evils rather than whom we would really prefer in reality.

kscott516 Revelation 5 6
11/15/17 9:39 pm

I can agree with that

kscott516 Revelation 5 6
11/15/17 3:53 pm

Jesus Christ was the only human to walk the earth and not sin. The atheists hate Him.

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ScenarioNations California
11/15/17 7:29 pm

Well there's a few things. For someone to scientifically prove your statement, they must first prove:
1. Jesus actually walked on earth
2. Jesus was sinless
3. Jesus is the only one who's sinless
4. Sins existence
5. That atheists hate him
6. This is what atheists hate him for.

I will concede number one. I think there's a historical Jesus. I'll even say that Jesus had some really good ideas (like Confucius or our ideas of Moses). But 2-6 are debatable things and this is where sensible skeptics have issues with.

kscott516 Revelation 5 6
11/15/17 9:38 pm

A sin is a transgression against divine law. Does Christianity have divine laws? Yes. Did Jesus commit any? No.
Do you know of or have heard of anyone else in history being sinless? No
Atheists do hate Him, or they wouldn’t try to erase His existence from society. They also use His name in vain despite supposedly not even believing He existed or was God incarnate. Strange, huh?
Why else would atheists spend so much time trying to disprove that a man named Jesus lived and was God incarnate? Why not just go about their business?

ScenarioNations California
11/15/17 9:50 pm

1. While according to Christianity divine law exists, this doesn't mean that it does.
2. If sin does exist, did Jesus commit a sin? According to Christianity, no; but if Christianity isn't true then yes.
3. I disagree that atheists want to erase Jesus from society. They may want to remove Christianity from the government, but they don't necessarily disagree with all of the teachings of Christ. If anything Atheists agree with many of the teachings of Christ but not the ones that claim he was divine.
4. I hear Christians use his name in vain all the time. That means nothing nowadays and is just an expression. It's equivalent to saying "bless you" after someone sneezes. You don't actually believe sneezy people are possessed by demons (the origin of the phrase)
5. They do it because Christians often try throwing religion in government. That's why they're adoment on debunking ideas of Christianity.

Your ideas are built upon the assumption that Christianity is true, which must be proved

Luftwaffe South of Heaven
11/15/17 3:39 pm

Who gives a shit? What sad person wakes up and even fucking looks at a country seal and analyzes it?

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gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 3:48 pm

Apparently @Cole12, 4 people in the entirety of Lehigh County, and the "Freedom From Religion Foundation".

Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
11/15/17 4:12 pm

A dumbass Liberal judge, that's who!

rons Thanks America
11/15/17 3:28 pm

Looks like a plus sign βž•

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TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
11/15/17 3:15 pm

If the majority of the county wants it to stay, it should stay.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/15/17 4:42 pm

It doesn’t seem to matter what a majority of people believe. The ACLU will come after them, the city won’t have the money to fight them, and they’ll cave to the ACLU, most likely. That’s the way it always goes.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 4:52 pm

Sadly, that is true.

Carcano Luke 10 19
11/15/17 5:32 pm

Connecticut has two crosses in the name. The name must be changed!

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/15/17 5:36 pm

That will probably be next, Carcano! Don’t give them any ideas! SMH

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 5:49 pm

πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 5:50 pm

Eliminate the letter "t" from the alphabet! It's similarity to the cross is oppressive!!!

TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
11/15/17 5:51 pm

ACLU-Anti Citizen Liberation Movement

TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
11/15/17 5:52 pm

Not “movement”... “Union”. 🀦‍♂️

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 5:53 pm

Anti-Christian Liberties Union

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/15/17 6:39 pm

Neither one of those acronyms will work, guys! They have the letter t in those words! YIKES! πŸ˜‚πŸ€£πŸ˜‚πŸ€£

No more anti, not more liberty, no more Christian!


...

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/15/17 6:39 pm

No more liberation, no more movement!

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/15/17 6:40 pm

You’ve even got to change your name, RueAmerican! πŸ€£πŸ˜‚πŸ€£πŸ˜‚

TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
11/15/17 7:14 pm

πŸ˜‚πŸ€£

SHIPPY1944 Tn.
11/15/17 2:49 pm

The Federal Judicial system is out of controlπŸ€ͺ, they have decided it’s their right to legislate to everyone, what to think, what to do & how to do itπŸ˜‘πŸ€¬β—οΈ

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Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
11/15/17 4:17 pm

Guess who appointed most of these SJW Judges. Thank you Obama. I am sure Allah is proud of you!

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 5:04 pm

Do you want Trump on the seal?
Do you want Brittany Spears on the seal?
Do you want Rosie O'Donnell's backfat on the seal?
Do you want pointless straw man questions on the seal?

ScenarioNations California
11/15/17 5:05 pm

So you don't want Allah on our seal? So why should I want your god on my seal?

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 5:08 pm

You're not seeing my God on the seal. You're seeing an illustration of a cross that nobody was bothered by for the past 73 years until now. Why do pictures offend you so much? Why do you feel the need to change something that doesn't effect you and isn't hurting everyone? Why is your skin about as thick as tissue paper?

ScenarioNations California
11/15/17 5:13 pm

I never said I was offended. You did. That's called a strawman. I couldn't give a shit tbfh. But if a city has a population of 90%-99% Muslims and one Christian gets offended over the seal of that town having "In Allah We Trust" on it", should the city change its seal?

TitaniumOreo Upstate New York
11/15/17 5:30 pm

I read an article that said the judge said he didn’t think the symbols violated the constitution, but he was bound by precedent to rule in favor of the plaintiffs. I think you’re unfairly painting the judge in a negative light.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 5:31 pm

No, because one person's complaints should not dictate public policy. Also, clearly you and this atheist group are offended or else you wouldn't be all up in arms over a seal that hasn't bothered anyone in its 73 years of existence.

ScenarioNations California
11/15/17 7:32 pm

Okay so what if that 1% of Christians get offended?? Where do you draw the line on what's acceptable and what's not in a democracy?

Also note that age doesn't matter. Traditions can be morally wrong or anti democratic. Humans used to force state religions on the people and this was a tradition for years. I'm not saying this is equal but this is the issue with an Appeal to Tradition which is a logical fallacy.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 7:36 pm

If 1% of the population is offended by words and pictures, then they are the ones with a problem. Having a picture of a cross on a seal is not anti-Democratic. Grow a thicker skin.

ScenarioNations California
11/15/17 7:38 pm

It's not about thick skin lol, it's about wanting to decide where your tax money goes

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 7:41 pm

Clearly it is about thick skin if you're offended over a cross on paper that doesn't cost you anything or hurt you in any way.

ScenarioNations California
11/15/17 7:44 pm

Well it does to some degree, depending of course on how much the stamps or seal wax costs to produce but I think that's a minor irrelevant point.

The people you'd say are offended are really just people saying "this town isn't representing me and violates the constitution". So representation may not even matter if the government is doing something unlawful in a certain area.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 8:35 pm

Oh, all 4 of them? Clearly a national issue! πŸ™„

ScenarioNations California
11/15/17 8:36 pm

Well I don't know how many are in that town or the specifics but I'm assuming it's more than 4 lmao

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 8:44 pm

No, it's exactly 4. Read the article.

ScenarioNations California
11/15/17 8:46 pm

Huh. You learn something new every day. Honestly I'm moderate on this, I typically don't care about stuff like this but I understand where the atheists are coming from

SHIPPY1944 Tn.
11/15/17 8:48 pm

Liberals & Atheists are always the tails that are always trying to wag the dogπŸ•πŸ”š I wonder if it’s because they’re closer to the anusπŸ€”β“

ScenarioNations California
11/15/17 8:51 pm

That's a sweeping generalization and probably a hasty one. Thus it's a formal fallacy. You should reconstruct your argument or comment so it is without fallacy.

SHIPPY1944 Tn.
11/15/17 8:58 pm

A formal fallacy is Liberals constantly telling they have all the answers, when they don’t have a clueπŸ˜³β—οΈ

ScenarioNations California
11/15/17 8:59 pm

You could say that about all sides hunny. It's a human flaw, not an ideological one.

SHIPPY1944 Tn.
11/15/17 9:05 pm

If your referring to all politicians, I would agree❗️

ScenarioNations California
11/15/17 9:07 pm

I would expand it to mostly everyone but I wouldn't exclude politicians. Politicians are horrible a majority of the time haha

SHIPPY1944 Tn.
11/15/17 9:11 pm

Lincoln, said “it’s better to say nothing & have people think your a fool, then open your mouth & remove all doubt” ! So it is with PoliticiansπŸ€ͺ

Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
11/15/17 10:51 pm

If you are offended by a cross on a seal, move to a Muslim country where that kind of symbol is routinely removed or destroyed! It's "tradition".

ScenarioNations California
11/15/17 10:53 pm

To be fair, Atheists would typically disagree with the policies of Muslim countries as well.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 10:55 pm

Really? You'd never know because they're curiously silent about it. It's almost as if their ire is directed solely at one religion (Christianity).

ScenarioNations California
11/15/17 11:00 pm

I agree. The issue with modern Atheists is that some are so super liberal that they don't oppose all forms of religious extremism. They go after only some but leave out Muslims

johonmilla Monroe, nc
11/15/17 2:42 pm

Glad a judge is actually using the constitution instead of religion in a court decision. Separation of church and state is a must!

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gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 2:45 pm

In that case, let's rip out all the graves in Arlington National Cemetery. It's maintained by the government and we wouldn't want those evil, scary, theocratic headstones to trigger anyone.

kscott516 Revelation 5 6
11/15/17 3:54 pm

The Constitution is a one way mirror, protecting religion from the State.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/15/17 4:44 pm

Johon, what you’re calling separation of church and state says this:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/15/17 4:57 pm

It always blows my mind that atheists CARE about crosses or any symbol of a God that they supposedly don’t believe exists! SMH

johonmilla Monroe, nc
11/15/17 5:24 pm

Glux, the religious symbols is a headstone is fine. It doesn’t represent anything but the individual who is laying under it. A symbol in a town seal, representative of its inhabitants, is another story.

johonmilla Monroe, nc
11/15/17 5:25 pm

4JC, so would you be fine if the government put up Islam figures and symbols? Since you don’t believe in Allah?

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/15/17 5:27 pm

No, johonmilla, because our country wasn’t founded on Islam. It was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs, and still is majority Christian.

Why do you even care about a God you don’t believe is REAL? What does it hurt you, since you think it’s a fairy tale?

...

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 5:39 pm

Milla, the cemetery mentioned above is maintained by the government. Since you and the rest of the left are apparently intent on eradicating any public display of Christianity, then it isn't really that far of a jump to assume that next you'll be advocating for those graves to be desecrated and ripped from the earth because some of them have crosses on them. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that was your ideology's next championed cause. If you're this offended over a picture of a cross that you feel the need to heartlessly sue a down-on-it's-luck county like this one in order to bend them to your way of things, then you're honestly capable of anything when it comes to this issue.

SHIPPY1944 Tn.
11/15/17 5:45 pm

Then put it to a referendum vote by the citizens of Lehigh Co., & let them decide, then if they are as Godless, that the atheists think they are, then they don’t have to petition a Federal Judge to override the majority of Citizens in Lehigh Co❗️

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 5:47 pm

Great idea, Shippy!

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
11/15/17 6:35 pm

You’re right, and so are you, shippy. But I can just about guarantee that’s not going to happen here. I’m so SICK of this happening over and over—because ONE person complains, what they want overrides EVERYONE else because the ACLU will fight for this person, and the small town will cave to them because they don’t have the money to fight their millions of dollars in donations. Have you noticed this never happens in larger cities? Because the ACLU are BULLIES who like to go after small, rural, poor towns!

..

Cole12 ...
11/15/17 2:37 pm

I grew up in Lehigh County, and I side with the federal judge.

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gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 2:38 pm

Edgy. πŸ˜‚

Cole12 ...
11/15/17 2:41 pm

I’m not trying to be edgy. I’m trying to support what’s right. As an atheist, I’m glad I live in a country where the federal government protects my rights from abuse by theocrats at the state and local levels.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 2:43 pm

Yup. Clearly trying to be edgy. Still mad at mommy and daddy for making you get up for church on Sunday? Seeing a cross on a seal does not equate to a violation of your rights. You must get really offended every time you pass a cemetery.

Cole12 ...
11/15/17 2:50 pm

Lol, OK. I’m sure you wouldn’t be too happy if counties started putting Baphomet on their seals.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 2:53 pm

Why do you feel the need to change the seals to put Baphomet on them? Sounds like another sad attempt to be edgy on your part.

Cole12 ...
11/15/17 2:54 pm

I don’t want Baphomet on county seals. I don’t want any religious symbols on seals - that’s the point.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 2:56 pm

Why do you feel the need to eradicate a cross from the seal? Why does an illustration bother you so much? What satisfaction do you get from taking a cross off of the seal? Again, sounds like your just trying to be edgy in order to get past some religious mommy and daddy issues.

Cole12 ...
11/15/17 3:05 pm

My family isn’t really religious, so your psychological profile of me is incorrect.

I want religion to be completely separate from government. Simple as that.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 3:08 pm

Ah, so you're trying just edgy for the purpose of being edgy. That's even sadder.

Cole12 ...
11/15/17 3:14 pm

Separation of church and state isn’t edgy, haha. I’m not an edgy person - if you got to know me, you’d realize that.

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 3:16 pm

This was an intense discussion πŸ˜‚

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 3:20 pm

A picture on a seal does not equate to theocracy nor is it an unconstitutional union of church and state, Coley boy. πŸ˜‚

TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
11/15/17 3:22 pm

That’s what often happens when you square off a law and order guy of faith, and an antifa supporting atheist 🀦‍♂️

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 3:26 pm

Dang gluxford you’re going so hard at Cole for no reason! I agree with your point but let’s keep personal attacks out of the equation 😐

TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
11/15/17 3:29 pm

He is going hard, but if you spent a month listening to someone that openly supports antifa and other failed ideologies with near religious fervor, you might get a touch exasperated too πŸ˜‰

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 3:31 pm

I am but that doesn’t mean I’m about to bring someone’s parents into it...

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 3:31 pm

Or call them “coley boy” lol

TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
11/15/17 3:33 pm

*hands @gluxford1 an aspirin*

44YY Boston, MA
11/15/17 3:34 pm

Glux is just a bully it seems

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 3:39 pm

He’s also the last person who should be getting an aspirin *cough* *cough*

TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
11/15/17 3:40 pm

Lol why is that? You have a bigger headache?

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 3:42 pm

No one should need one lol y’all took this poll to seriously πŸ˜’

TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
11/15/17 3:43 pm

Bah, what’s life without a heated debate now and then?!

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 3:45 pm

A slightly less irritating one

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 3:46 pm

This thread got funny real fast! Thanks for the aspirin by the way. πŸ˜œπŸ’Š

TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
11/15/17 3:49 pm

Anytime! Call me the πŸ‘¨‍βš•οΈ

Cole12 ...
11/15/17 3:52 pm

I don't care if the seal is constitutional or not. What the Constitution says explicitly isn't really important to me. I support a strict separation between church and state, and this seal is a violation of the kind of separation that I favor.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 3:52 pm

You want me to call you the Doctor Emoji? πŸ˜‚πŸ‘πŸ»

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 3:53 pm

"I don't care if it's constitutional or not."
There's your first problem right there.

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 3:54 pm

And so the thread continues πŸ˜‚ πŸ˜‚

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 3:54 pm

And what you favor and don't favor does not dictate legal and public policy.

Cole12 ...
11/15/17 3:55 pm

Um, politics is all about personal preferences.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 3:55 pm

Yeah Phoenix, I thought it was over too. πŸ˜‚

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 3:56 pm

We aren't talking about your politics here, Cole. We are talking about judicial, legal, and public policy.

Cole12 ...
11/15/17 4:02 pm

All of which are in the realm of politics.

“Politics (from Greek: Politiká: Politika, definition "affairs of the cities") is the process of making decisions that apply to members of a group.”

I strongly support activist judges and juries who consider progress and social justice when making their decisions.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 4:02 pm

No, they are in the realm of constitutional law.

TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
11/15/17 4:05 pm

The Constitution is the supreme law of the land.
Activist judges by their very nature break the oaths they took.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 4:09 pm

Precisely.

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 4:19 pm

Can we all just agree that if you were an atheist who didn’t like the seal you shouldn’t have moved into the county in the first place. Unless you’re an atheist who lived in the county before the seal was made you shouldn’t have a problem with it. If you do find another county who supports your beliefs and move there.

Cole12 ...
11/15/17 4:20 pm

Ok. The point is, I don’t care. I don’t worship the Constitution. That’s what I’ve been trying to say.

Also, the legal system is a part of the political system. Legal decisions are political, by nature.

TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
11/15/17 4:25 pm

That Phoenix, is the basis of the “American Experiment”. The idea that each city, county, and state can choose their own ideals, so long as it does not violate the Constitution, the supreme law of the land. People vote with their feet, which allows like minded individuals to live together. When the nation as a whole is threatened, ALL individual groups should be compelled to defend their neighbors, or lose their own freedoms soon after.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 4:25 pm

If I was an atheist, I wouldn't give a shit because it's just a picture on a seal and I'm aware enough to recognize that the vast majority of Americans are Christians.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 4:28 pm

No Cole, you are incorrect. The legal system in this county is based off of the constitution, not politics.

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 4:28 pm

@gluxford1 THANK YOU!!! This really shouldn’t bother anyone atheist or not. As long as no one is forcing a religion on you it’s fine

Cole12 ...
11/15/17 4:42 pm

I don't care about what the legal system *is* based on. I care about what, in my opinion, it *should be* based on.

TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
11/15/17 4:46 pm

Then do your best to legally change it Cole! The avenues to do so are written IN THE CONSTITUTION!!! You base the majority of your arguments on your emotions, without having the due diligence to actually study, seek the truth, and effect non-violent change! This is why you are largely discredited by most adults on this app. We don’t want to fight you, we want to help you.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 4:50 pm

Our legal system is not based on your opinions, Cole.

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 4:51 pm

The world does not revolve around you and your views of it. The sooner you learn that, the better off you'll be.

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 4:51 pm

I’d just like to give a round of applause to @gluxford1 for creating a question that had a thread that lasted 2 strong hours

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 4:52 pm

@gluxford1 well done πŸ˜‚

TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
11/15/17 4:53 pm

Stick around @lilPheonix , we do this all the time πŸ˜‚

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 4:53 pm

Thanks, Phoenix! 😊

TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
11/15/17 4:54 pm

It’s amazing to have this platform to debate ideas, and bring facts to light.

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 4:54 pm

@Cole12 If you research this topic you could find evidence that could might prove your opinion to be logical but you actually have to look

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 4:55 pm

@gluxford1 no prob πŸ‘πŸ½πŸ‘πŸ½

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 4:58 pm

"WE'RE HAVING A REASONABLE DISCUSSION!!!!"
youtu.be/lsVONO75utI

Cole12 ...
11/15/17 5:01 pm

I'm not sure how having the opinion that the Constitution is irrelevant "discredits" me. It's just as valid of an opinion as the opposite - that the Constitution is relevant. Remember, there are many successful countries in the world without strong Constitutions like ours. Personally, I'd like to scrap the thing and replace it with something more flexible.

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 5:03 pm

You cant just scrap the constitution. This is why we are allowed to amend things

TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
11/15/17 5:05 pm

Cole, it is perfectly flexible!!! It was designed to ensure that radical, spur of the moment changes would not occur and jeopardize the nation while keeping the door open for change!!!

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 5:08 pm

@TrueAmerica7 exactly

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 5:09 pm

Well said, TrueAmerican and Phoenix!

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 5:10 pm

@Cole12 have you read the Constitution before?

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 5:10 pm

@gluxford1 thank you πŸ™πŸ½

Cole12 ...
11/15/17 5:10 pm

Yes, I've read the Constitution many times.

TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
11/15/17 5:12 pm

@Cole12 , furthermore, there are other countries that better suit your ideals! Why stay here and be miserable trying to force your beliefs against the majority? Go, be part of your own majority. If you’re ideals are correct, then your country will be proven right, and our country will fail. To force them on a majority of others in this country is Fascist.

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 5:14 pm

@TrueAmerica7 the ultimate mic drop

Cole12 ...
11/15/17 5:16 pm

You're clearly unfamiliar with the definition of "fascism." I'm not a fascist. I am an authoritarian in some respects, though - that's definitely true. I don't really care about what the majority of Americans think - I'm fine with forcing some of my opinions on them.

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 5:16 pm

@Cole12 I apologize if this seems like tag teaming, next time around if you’re going to have an opinion on something have some piece of evidence or some background knowledge before arguing about it otherwise your ideas wont seem strong. Always justify your thoughts.

44YY Boston, MA
11/15/17 5:17 pm

Separation of church and state is a part of the laws in this country. Cole is correct in that

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 5:17 pm

It’s also not good to force a bald statement onto someone

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 5:18 pm

@44YY but it’s just a county

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 5:19 pm

And a picture on a seal is not an unconstitutional union of church and state. It isn't forcing you to convert, 44YY. Pictures can't talk to you or hurt you.

44YY Boston, MA
11/15/17 5:20 pm

Then why does we just hang a cross from the Capitol in dc??? Separation of church and state that’s why. And it doesn’t matter if it’s just a county. It’s still part of the US government

TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
11/15/17 5:20 pm

@Cole12 “I’m fine with forcing some of my opinions on them”... Well at least you kinda know the definition of fascism. 🀦‍♂️

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 5:23 pm

@44YY if it was such a big issue why wasn’t it dealt with 73 years ago when it was made? Why is it just now bothering anyone? What’s the big deal?

44YY Boston, MA
11/15/17 5:25 pm

Just because mistakes were made in the past doesn’t mean we can’t fix them now

TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
11/15/17 5:28 pm

@44YY please read the entire thread to understand the “American Experiment”.

44YY Boston, MA
11/15/17 5:28 pm

I don’t have time for that lol

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 5:30 pm

@44YY But why did we wait this long to address it, at this point it shouldn’t matter. Civilization has gone fine in those past 73 years. Why are we acknowledging now when things have been just fine. It’s not like we’re putting a cross on the state our on the American flag

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 5:31 pm

Lol my grammar is so bad πŸ˜‚

44YY Boston, MA
11/15/17 5:32 pm

I beat my kid 70 years ago and he turned out fine so it’s ok that I beat him

TrueAmerican7 I Am Galt.
11/15/17 5:43 pm

“I don’t have time for that”, aka I don’t have time to research the history/facts, and have fallen prey to society’s past mistakes.

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 6:15 pm

That’s a whole different concept

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 6:19 pm

@44YY of course it’s not ok to beat your child but that has nothing to do with this situation. Please use a better example

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 2:34 pm

I side with Lehigh County. The seal has been around for 73 years and nobody has had a problem with it until now. The county itself is overwhelmingly Christian, just as America is. This seems like just another example of the war being waged against the Christian influence of United States culture.

Reply
44YY Boston, MA
11/15/17 3:35 pm

Slavery had been around for thousands of years before it had been made illegal and lots of people owned slaves at the time too. Does that mean that it should be legal? Your arguments of time and popularity mean nothing when it comes to law

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 4:30 pm

You're drawing a false equivalency between slavery and a picture of a cross on a county seal. Wow. That's a new low even for you. Those two things aren't even close to comparable.

ScenarioNations California
11/15/17 5:03 pm

You just used an ad populum fallacy and a fallacy from age. Try removing these from your argument so you have a valid argument.

44YY Boston, MA
11/15/17 5:15 pm

I’m not saying they are equivalent in morality, their situations are just similar

44YY Boston, MA
11/15/17 5:16 pm

I’m saying that you can use those exact same arguments for slavery as well so if the seal is ok because of them then so is slavery

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 5:34 pm

The mass enslavement and killing of human being is in no way, shape, or form a similar situation to a cross illustration on a seal offending a few special snowflakes like yourself. Get a grip.

44YY Boston, MA
11/15/17 5:34 pm

Let me repeat myself since you didn’t seem to understand the first time:
“I’m not saying they are equivalent in morality, their situations are just similar”

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 5:48 pm

They are not even remotely similar. You seem to have trouble understanding that.

44YY Boston, MA
11/15/17 6:11 pm

The seal has been around for a long time
Slavery had been around for a long time
The seal is popular in that region
Slavery was popular in the region it existed

gluxford1 Arizona
11/15/17 6:23 pm

Still not remotely comparable.

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 6:39 pm

@44YY those are just tiny similarities that aren’t relevant to the main issue.

-Slavery was way more severe and this situation isn’t
-Several people died and this could fall under one of the more petty cases
-This problem was alive and relevant among hundreds of innocent African Americans and this issue is just coming up now


It’s an insult to compare the two.

44YY Boston, MA
11/15/17 7:17 pm

I just used the same arguments to support slavery that you used to support the seal, therefore showing you how those arguments mean nothing

ScenarioNations California
11/15/17 7:22 pm

I can back up what she's saying. What she's doing is saying "the sky is so blue that it looks like the ocean today!" Is the sky and the ocean comparable outside of its color? Probably not. Does this mean it's a bad comparison? No.

lilPhoenix The Phoenix Controversy
11/15/17 7:26 pm

@44YY Okay I get what you’re saying now. Thanks for the clarification