If a woman chooses to wear a top that she knows shows a LOT of cleavage, she should expect that it is going to attract the attention of men everywhere she goes.
If she doesn’t expect it she should start.
So if a man has his shirt unbuttoned to his stomach, pants are so damn tight, if he farts they'd disintegrate, they are not rape material?
And they will STILL get pissed for gaining the attention of what they wear. It's just so stupid. I no longer even pay any attention to them stupid bitches, not one god damn one of them have any decency and they just go around trying to find a guy to look at them then turn around and play a victim. Single for life and proud of it!
Attention as in looks maybe even comments yes!
I am a busty woman and honestly if I wear something low cut & no one notices, I might be mildly offended. That said, it is annoying when you try to wear something to cover up and get comments anyway.
Yes, modesty is a good thing, however she should not be forced to dress modestly and regardless men have to do the right thing on our part regardless.
Of course. You cannot control other people. It doesn’t make it right and it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t hold people accountable, but you can’t stick your head in the sand and pretend like what you wear doesn’t influence other people. It does
Finally someone who gets it! Some seem to think how you dress makes no difference in anything.
Yes, but she shouldn't expect to be a victim of a crime.
Yes. But that is no excuse for men to act like predators.
Of course. That’s why she’s wearing it.
And if you were a Somali migrant in Europe, you could rape her and never suffer repercussions.
America: "TEACH MEN NOT TO RAPE REEEE"
Europe: "Awh, he didn't know any better, it's okay..."
LOL, but not really because women and teens are being raped daily by these uncivilized masses.
You take one incident of horrible behavior and expand it to criticise a whole group of counties. So infantile.
Try Googling the Einzelfall Map.
One incident my ass.
I'd link it but it's on Google Maps and it tends to be a bit unstable for different platforms.
Liam, you're delusional! Even in the US Mall of America's the North African Muzzies have taken over with a stabbing just last week by one. Wake up or you won't have a country anymore.
Diogenes, don't look now, but women are being raped daily by civilized native born men in the United States, and Europe too. If you think rape is a crime only committed by uncivilized immigrants, think again my friend. Our prisons - and Europe's prisons - are full of native born rapists.
I don't think anyone thinks otherwise. The question is why are these migrants allowed to get away with it?
She wears that to attract attention. The problem is, the person she attracts isn't always the person she wants.
If you want to be traeated respectfully, look respectable. If you look like a whore you should get treated like one.
Actions have consequences
I would say if you dress like a whore then expect to be treated like one. Right or wrong, you dress the part you'll be treated the part.
The problem is MEN
Wow! So you basically have zero respect for women in general unless they meet your particular standard of modesty??
That pretty much negates any claims you may make to being a protector of “the weaker sex” so I sincerely hope you let go of that delusion. Your true colors are shining through there,and they are NOT beautiful. They are muddy and smell bad.
If you are going to act like a misogynistic boor, expect to be treated like one.
My troll sense is tingling
I remember when Macho seemed to be actually not a horrid person. Seems he's growing up to be a douche. So here. I'll explain it like this: If a woman wears a top that shows a lot of cleavage, and a man cannot avoid looking, Matt 18:9 commands that he take personal accountability and blind himself.
Go get a spoon Macho.
Geez Matt, that’s half a step away from “she deserves to get raped because of how she dressed”.
I'm gonna take the bullet and side with Matt on this one. I can't go walking down the street dressed like a cop and then get butthurt when people treat me like a cop. If I dress to impress, I hope to receive a compliment or twelve. For what purpose would a female person wear clothing that "shows a LOT of cleavage" if not to impress people? Regardless of her intentions, she needs to be aware that in the United States, this will get you attention. It would be totally ignorant to assume otherwise.
He didn’t say complimented, he said “treated like a slut”. So you should expect to be treated like ****? Nope. No sir.
A woman dressed a certain way might catch my eye, but I’m not going to go harass her, and neither should anyone else. That’s on them, not her.
Again, one should be cognizant of their surrounding societal norms before making choices and getting upset when they don't like the results. I wouldn't go to Saudi Arabia wearing a burqa and then get mad when people think I'm a female. In American society as it stands, you should be aware that wearing skimpy clothing will attract attention. If you don't want the attention, don't wear attention-getting or misleading clothing.
You seem to think men can’t control themselves and just have to molest women who dress a certain way.
Does anyone else seriously not get that how you dress creates a big influence in how others see you? Am I missing something here? I mean, hypothetical: Hillary Clinton became president instead and instead of wearing a pantsuit or business dress, she decides to wear a striped tube top, plaid miniskirt, and stockings as the president. Is that presidential attire? I know that's a scaled up and extreme example, but the underlying message is the same: how you dress strongly influences how others see and treat you. Again, I do not condone rape or sexual assault and I wish for swift and harsh punishments for those who commit those acts against anyone. But I'm not going to pretend to feel sorry for a girl who goes to a frat party alone in a skimpy outfit and takes every shot she's given. That's a flat out stupid decision on all accounts! Don't defend that! She made a choice to put herself in a VERY vulnerable situation and she was taken advantage of.
Did you guys also know that a man who walks into a job interview and is "dressed for the part" is significantly more likely to earn said job over another guy who is dressed like a homeless guy? Regardless of qualifications?
Can I send you a spoon or do you have your own?
Nah man. Keep it. I know what I'm saying makes sense but I'm clearly having trouble translating it to left wing rhetoric. For that I apologize
Your original question was not about job interviews.
That is a specific situation and not really relevant to your original claim that it is essentially ok and to be expected that a woman who has cleavage will be accosted by men. Because, according to you, she deserves it.
I like how you skimmed over everything else in the past ten comments and that nitpick is all you have to say in response
Feminism: WOMEN DONT WEAR CLOTHES TO GET ATTENTION FROM MEN!
Literally wears pornographic clothing in public too get the attention of men
Why do women wear sexy and revealing clothing then?
Because they like them. Because they feel sexy in them.
Contrary to what you seem to think - women do not dress to attract men. They dress for themselves and each other. Not to sexually attract each other but to IMPRESS each other.
Go ahead. Ask a woman. Unless she is aiming for a particular man (which is a different story all together) most women do not dress to attract men. They do not consult men on their wardrobe. They consult and critique Other Women.
I don't buy that. Reasonable explanation and I would agree partially true, but I don't buy it. Why? Because it's part of our evolutionary nature to attract mates for reproduction. Of course, that can be modernized to making ourselves sexually appealing to the opposite sex whether we seek out a partner or not, but that's the heart of this and why I don't buy that.
You do not have to buy it, it is still true.
Go ahead. Ask a woman.
Yes of course.
Yes, to an extent. She should expect to get hit on but definitely not assaulted
I would like to hear from the 11% who believed showing cleavage creates no male response.
Why do you think cleavage isn’t noticed these days? &
If it’s not noticed why is it done?
What are the other motives? Comfort? Cooling?
That’s why the slut does it. She knows what she is doing and then she gets to play the victim when called out on her slutty outfit. Women have soooooooooo tough.
Yes, and a lot of it won’t be good.
People will notice, but they shouldn’t make rude comments or stare.
I understand comments but why not stare?
It’s just creepy. Plus, it’s rude to whoever your with.
That's like saying it's creepy to have girls stare at a guy with a six pack. And what is rude is putting males in this position, women know men are attracted to this and you expose as much as you can.
It’s creepy for anyone to stare at anyone. It doesn’t matter if they’re male or female.
Men need to learn self control. It would be like me staying at a hotel and telling them that the waffles, donuts, etc. on the free breakfast shouldn’t be there because I’m on a diet and don’t know if I can stop myself from eating it. Or getting mad at QVC because they had all of their beauty items on sale. I’m a product junkie and just can’t resist. I’m not responsible for your actions.
Well why would women show a bunch of cleavage if they didn't want it to be seen? It's like saying here look at this, but if you do it's not right. Doesn't make any senses
I’m not saying to not look. I’m just saying have some self control and be respectful.
I agree with that, but you can't be mad at a women if you show a lot and men stare. If they make comments that is unacceptable, but if they stare you can't be mad about that
Would to say the same thing if someone was staring at a handicap person?
Poor analogy, handicap people don't choose to be handicap, people flaunting their assets choose to do so
Just like you can choose to stare or not. It all comes back to having self control.
Yes but it's not not about self control, bottom line is the only reason you flaunt your assets is to get looks, and you can't be mad if men stare at a women's assets that she puts on full display.
There’s such a thing as learning to not be rude and learning self control.
It's not rude to stare at what people put in front of you. Why else would they do it?
Yes. It is rude to stare. Every child is taught that.
People wouldn't stare if things weren't flaunted in their face. Can't change human nature
Human nature is to look, but not to stare.
If it's not human nature why do we fight the urge to do so?
Not everyone has to fight the urge.
I really don’t think that’s true.
Sure, but that doesn’t mean people should stare.
Well yeah, unless she has a double-digit IQ, haha.
She should expect it, probably, only because that is how it is here, not because it is right or makes any sense. But it isn’t attention that is ever an issue, it is *unwelcome* attention, and she should never have to expect or tolerate that.
Define “a lot” 8)
I know you don’t like this but it does depend on context.
Frankly the only women who get called out for baring cleavage are the ones who are well endowed. You are effectively setting up a double standard for women based on the size of their breasts.
The problem is not the cleavage or the women - It is the men. It is not breasts that are sexualized it is larger breasts. I cannot imagine the contortions that the “modesty” crowd would go through if the major sexual characteristic (as defined by society) was the derrier.
Oh, and a woman who chooses to not cover her breasts so as to only allow a demure 1/5” of cleavage to display, is not automatically a skank.
Trying to demonstrate that it's more than just a hint of strippers crack at the top of her chest.
Just something to think about:
When was it decided, and by whom, that showing any cleavage was slutty?
The problem is the men? Most men don't create problems. There are men that prey on others though. You are aware that there are thieves out there, so you lock your car and house doors to prevent that. You make yourself a harder target, since most thieves are looking for easy targets. Same thing. Go to a college frat party and there will probably be some guys looking for easy ass. They won't go for some girl by the wall drinking Coca-Cola from a bottle she brought in who is wearing a modest top, light jacket, jeans, and tennis shoes. They're looking for the bimbo in a low cut tank top, no bra, short skirt and high heels drinking every shot given to her. That's easy pickings right there and, really, in that case you could make a strong argument that she was directly responsible for placing herself in a VERY compromised position.
The only behavior that is compromising is the drinking. What she wears should not define her character or her willingness to have sex.
Think about what you are saying Matt. Modesty is an attitude and a behavior. Not clothing. The Queen of England (in her youth) could have worn a two piece and high heels and would still be the Queen and treated as such.
What people wear says a lot about them. A ton! It can't be ignored. I'm sure you're aware that people will see you differently if you dress up in a nice business suit versus sweat pants and a torn flannel shirt. I know people see me differently when I wear my uniform versus when I wear shorts and a t shirt in the winter. You don't see many welders walking around in suits with ties just like you don't see lawyers walking around in faded jeans and muscle shirts, and it isn't just because of their jobs. It's part of who they are. Its how they want or choose to present themselves to others. That's obvious.
Which of those uniforms defines your willingness to have sex or your general character?
And again: When and by whom was it decided that a woman who has cleavage is a skank?
She should *expect* it, but its up to the men to control themselves. Women shouldn't be policed for what they wear because some morons act like fucking apes.
Do you lock your car doors and house doors when you're away? Same concept. Bad people exist, unfortunately. And frankly, the vast majority of men *do* control themselves just fine. It's up to the individual to take the steps they feel necessary to protect themselves against the known threats.
So rapists and harassers only target “sluts” with visible cleavage?
And women are comparable to property like houses and cars?
Your own body, to yourself, is comparable to property, yes.
No, they don't only target them. But they do look for easier targets.
Hey genius - they don’t target them at all. They target women drinking excessively, women who are alone, and pretty much anyone who appears to be unable to defend themselves. It has jack squat to do with what she wears.
What’s your experience as a man, @FacePalm ?
I do not have to be a man to know what the statistics are, so your snark is wasted.
I wish I could say I was surprised that you would defend men treating women like objects because they have breasts.
Additionally the large number of men who do not view women as targets or prey proves the falsehood of your position.
What proves the falsehood of my position? You know that rapists and low life's exist, right? And that they usually go for easy victims? That's not fantasy. Not sure what your trying to say.
I would never defend men treating women as objects but the fact is that many men do so if a woman dresses inappropriately she shouldn’t be surprised if she gets unwanted attention.
Shit, i think a good argument could be made that I'm pro women and anti hound dogs. I'm looking at reality and making good suggestions on how a woman can make herself a harder target against predators. I'm actually trying to prevent victims in the first place.
I agree with Ebola
Men who treat women like objects are taught to treat women like objects. Men who enable that mindset are the ones who directly or indirectly blame the women for being on the receiving end of attitudes & behaviors they ostensibly agree are unacceptable.
NO PERSON, regardless of dress deserves to be treated poorly. Especially not because of her clothing. That is my point.
You guys keep saying
“of course *I* would never do that, BUT...”
But, nothing. It is not Ok to say that women, especially well endowed women, should expect & prepare for harassment, assault, rude staring, advances being made even after she said no, etc. just because she is not covered up to her collarbone (or higher) or down to her knees(or lower). with no mid-drift showing except on the beach or football field sidelines.
We are not objects; no man has a right, real or implied, to press his advances without our permission or to treat us like dirt because of cleavage.
I am going to leave this here.
I add only this: I cannot BELIEVE we even need to have this discussion.
What the hell?
I don't think you're hearing what we're saying. Our focus is on prevention of sexual assault. I think guys who prey on women like that are disgusting bastards who deserve to be castrated and force fed their genitals. My thoughts and your thoughts on that don't change the simple fact that some guys, sadly, don't care. They do see women as trophies to mount on their walls. Sadly, some women make it easy for these guys to do that too, willingly.
Again @FacePalm your disconnect with reality is what is UNBELIEVABLE. Look at the women on this poll who say that women who dress with excessive cleavage showing want attention and that’s why they dress that way. I respect their opinions as women before yours as a man, especially seeing you’ve had no experience as a man.
I, likewise, can’t BELIEVE we’re having this conversation. Please do retire to your La-La Land and have a good evening.
You want to prevent sexual assault - teach boys not to assault. Spend more energy condemning men who treat women with anything less than respect than on shaming women for not dressing to your “modesty” standard.
You teach children not to steal, or lie, or pick fights but somehow the lesson that women are not objects and that it is not ok to touch someone without permission is beyond your ability. Pathetic. Stop making excuses. Stop telling women how they must dress to avoid making men uncomfortable. Put a lot more effort in teaching respect and self control.
Ebola - you are making two egregious errors: 1) since I have never claimed to be or to speak for men, your comments to that effect are asinine. 2) People are entitled to their opinions, but confirmation bias does not imbue them with validity. It is not unheard of for a woman to be catty, doesn’t make them right.
If, as an adult male you are more threatened by breasts than by assaulters, you are the one with the issue.
“Hey genius - they don’t target them at all. They target women drinking excessively, women who are alone, and pretty much anyone who appears to be unable to defend themselves. It has jack squat to do with what she wears.” - @FacePalm
1) So you have never claimed to speak for men? Read above and I rest my case on that one. Seems that your comments are the asinine ones.
2) The implication that I am threatened by breasts and support assaults is laughable. If I am “the problem” then your histrionic responses are at least an equal, if not worse problem. Your use of stereotypes (catty women) when it suits you is quite telling in this regard.
I’m sorry you’re triggered by my stating facts and I’m sure you’ll want the last word, so go ahead. I’m not responding further on this thread to your triggered rhetoric.
Correct - but I encourage Christian men to stay far away from such women. Don’t pollute your eyes because lust will creep into your heart.
And it always seems to be the ones “heavily endowed”, don’t it?
Flaunt it if you got it! I mean, I'm certainly not against a sneak peek at the great valley, but don't get upset with my brief glance either! "You're hair looks good today!" 😘 Of course, you know I probably don't mean your hair...
I would personally file this one under the "duh" category, but I know there are political agendas to be pushed. This isn't victim blaming. It's VERY well documented and known that men, in general, are very visibly sexually driven. A woman can't dress like a total skank and expect that everyone around will treat her like a modestly dressed woman. I don't condone rape or sexual assault. Not at all. I do agree with personal responsibility on the part of anyone who takes advantage of someone else. But for the same reason I don't leave my doors unlocked on my cars or house, a woman should at least think about how she is presenting herself. Bad people are out there. It is the responsibility of the individual to take whatever actions necessary to promote their own personal safety.
I think not only should she expect it, but for most wearing that, I think she probably wants the attention. I'm sure that isn't true for every woman, but for many.
For many that is likely true. I know women, in general, want to look and feel beautiful, especially to men. Of course, an easy way to do that is to tease with the northern hemisphere goods. And it works! Some hot cleavage and a cute, flirty voice a girl can get a guy to do just about anything she wants him to! Now that I think about it, that's manipulation!
But it's true, men are so easily manipulated.
French accent gets me every time... 😍
I just read every comment and reply in this poll, and I had to get all the way down to the first comment to find the one that made the most sense. Thanks, Kay.